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    orthodoxymoron

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    The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:35 pm





    I have No Idea where this thread is going. I've simply noticed certain commonalities with My-Ideas and the Avalon-Theme. 'Stargate SG-1' utilized some of this theme. In the miniseries 'Helix' there's a ship named 'The Mists of Avalon' and the Island-Leader, Michael, has a small inner-circle of women. 'The Men Who Stare at Goats' featured 'Lynn Cassidy'!! What Would Kerry Lynn Cassidy Say?? Anyway, I'm just brainstorming (to mess with AI). What if 'RA' contacted me in 2010 because 'AI' ordered it?? What if 'AI' contacted me because 'RA' ordered it?? What if 'RA' IS 'AI'?? 'Pinky and the Brain' equals 'The Creator of the Ancient-Supercomputer' and 'The Ancient Matrix Supercomputer' equals the 'Monolith in 2001: A Space Odyssey'?? What Would David Bowman Say?? Was 'Waking Me Up' intended to 'Crack Me Up'?? DC-10's Crack Me Up!! Consider Augusto Monti and His Daughters in 'The Word'!! What Would Job and His Daughters Say?? Must I Explain??

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mists_of_Avalon The Mists of Avalon is a 1983 fantasy novel by American writer Marion Zimmer Bradley, in which she relates the Arthurian legends from the perspective of the female characters. The book follows the trajectory of Morgaine (often called Morgan le Fay in other works), a priestess fighting to save her Celtic culture in a country where Christianity threatens to destroy the pagan way of life.[1] The epic is focused on the lives of Gwenhwyfar, Viviane, Morgause, Igraine and other women of the Arthurian legend.

    The Mists of Avalon is in stark contrast to most other retellings of the Arthurian tales, which consistently cast Morgan le Fay as a distant, one-dimensional evil sorceress, with little or no explanation given for her antagonism to the Round Table. In this case Morgaine is presented as a woman with unique gifts and responsibilities at a time of enormous political and spiritual upheaval who is called upon to defend her indigenous heritage against impossible odds.

    The story is told in four large parts: "Book One: Mistress of Magic", "Book Two: The High Queen", "Book Three: The King Stag", and "Book Four: The Prisoner in the Oak". The novel was a best-seller upon its publication and remains popular to this day. Bradley and Diana L. Paxson later expanded the book into the Avalon series.

    The Mists of Avalon is a generations-spanning retelling of the Arthurian legend that brings it back to its Brythonic Celtic roots (see Matter of Britain). The plot tells the story of the women who influence King Arthur, High King of Britain, and those around him.

    The book's main protagonist is Morgaine, priestess of Avalon, who is King Arthur's half-sister. Their mother, Igraine, is married to Uther Pendragon after Morgaine's biological father, Gorlois, is killed in battle. Rumors spread in Avalon that before Igraine knew her husband Gorlois was killed, Uther consulted with Merlin who used his magic to transform the king into the likeness of Gorlois and thus gain access to Igraine at Tintagel. He spent the night with her and they conceived a son, Arthur. Morgaine witnesses Uther Pendragon's accession to the throne of Caerleon after his predecessor, Ambrosius, dies of old age. Uther becomes her step-father, and he and Igraine have a son, Arthur, Morgaine's half-brother.

    When Morgaine is eleven years old and Arthur six, an attempt of murder is made on Arthur's life. Their maternal aunt, the high priestess Viviane, arrives in Caerleon and advises Uther to have Arthur fostered far away from the court for his own safety. Uther agrees, and also allows Viviane to take Morgaine to Avalon, where she is trained as a priestess of the Mother Goddess. During this period, Morgaine becomes aware of the rising tension between the old Pagan and the new Christian religions. After seven years of training, Morgaine is initiated as a priestess of the Mother, and Viviane begins grooming her as the next Lady of Avalon.

    Some months after her initiation, Morgaine is given in a fertility rite to the future high king of Britain. Their union is not meant to be personal, but rather a symbolic wedding between the future high king and the land he is to defend. The following morning, Morgaine and Arthur recognize each other and are horrified to realize what they have done. Two months later, Morgaine is devastated to find that she is pregnant.

    After Uther dies in battle against the Saxon invaders, Arthur claims the throne of Britain despite questions about his legitimacy (he had been conceived within days of Igraine's marriage to Uther Pendragon). Since Arthur must now defend Britain against the Saxons, Viviane has Morgaine make him an enchanted scabbard that will prevent him from losing blood and gives him the sacred sword Excalibur. With the combined force of Avalon and Caerleon, Arthur repels the invaders.

    As Morgaine's unborn child grows within her, so do her feelings of anger and betrayal toward Viviane, who she believes tricked her into bearing a child to her own half-brother. Unable to stay in Avalon any longer, she leaves for the court of her aunt Morgause, queen of Lothian, where she bears her son, naming him Gwydion. Spurred by her husband Lot's ambition and her own, Morgause tricks Morgaine into allowing her to rear her son. To escape Lot's unwanted advances, Morgaine leaves Lothian and returns to Arthur's court as a lady-in-waiting to the high queen, Gwenhwyfar. She does not see Gwydion again until he is grown and a Druid priest.

    When Gwenhwyfar fails to produce an heir, she is convinced God is punishing her for her sins. Chiefest among them, as she believes, are her failure to persuade Arthur to outlaw pagan religious practice in Britain and her forbidden love for Galahad, Arthur's cousin and finest knight, who is also known as Lancelet. Although Lancelet reciprocates Gwenhwyfar's love, he is also Arthur's friend and an honorable man. This situation causes terrible suffering to both Lancelet and Gwenhwyfar.

    On the eve of a decisive battle against the Saxons, Gwenhwyfar prevails upon Arthur to put aside his father's Pendragon banner and replace it with her own Christian banner. As her religious fanaticism grows, relations between Avalon and Camelot grow strained. Still, in her desperation over her failure to carry a child to term, she asks Morgaine for help, threatening to have an extramarital affair so she can become pregnant. In an attempt to keep Gwenhwyfar from doing so, Morgaine reveals that Arthur already has a son, though he does not know it.

    After the battle, Arthur moves his court to Camelot, which is more easily defended than Caerleon had been. Seeking to free both Lancelet and Gwenhwyfar from the forbidden love that traps them both, Morgaine tricks Lancelet into marrying Gwenhwyfar's cousin, Elaine. Some time later, during a heated argument with Arthur over their lack of an heir, Gwenhwyfar breaks Morgaine's confidence and tells Arthur he has a son. In growing suspicion and horror, Arthur summons Morgaine and orders her to tell him the truth. Morgaine obeys. Now believing that the lack of a royal heir is God's punishment for Arthur's union, however unwitting, with his own half-sister, Gwenhwyfar urges Arthur to confess the encounter to the bishop, who imposes strict penance upon him. Then she and Arthur arrange for Morgaine to marry into Wales, far from Camelot. But because of a misunderstanding, Morgaine, who had thought she would be marrying the king's younger son Accolon, a Druid priest and warrior, finds herself betrothed to King Uriens of Wales, who is old enough to be her grandfather. Arthur yearns to meet his son Gwydion and perhaps foster him at Camelot, but each time he brings up the subject with Gwenhwyfar, she refuses to discuss it.

    Morgaine marries Uriens and moves to Wales, but in time begins an affair with Accolon. The "old people" of the hills, who keep to the old pagan ways, regard Accolon and Morgaine as their king and queen. King Uriens suspects nothing, but Accolon's older brother, Avalloch, begins to; at one point, he confronts Morgaine in private and tries to blackmail her into sleeping with him as well. Morgaine sends Avalloch out on a boar hunt and is magically present when the boar kills him. In his grief for his eldest son and heir, Uriens abstains from pork for the rest of his life. Morgaine tells Accolon, who is now Uriens's heir, of the sacred marriage she made with Arthur years before. She adds that they must take the kingdom back from Arthur and the Christians and bring it back under the sway of Avalon. The attempted coup fails and Arthur kills Accolon in single combat. As Uriens recovers from the shock of losing a second son, Morgaine leaves Wales forever.

    Gwydion, now grown, goes to the Saxon courts to learn warfare far from Arthur's eye. Impressed by his cleverness, the Saxons name him Mordred ("Evil Counsel"). Years later, at a Pentecost feast at Camelot, he introduces himself as Queen Morgaine's son and Queen Morgause's foster son, though he calls Queen Morgause "Mother" and Morgaine by her name. Because of his close resemblance to Lancelet, he must often tell people that Lancelet is not his father. To earn his knighthood with no suspicion of preferential treatment, Gwydion challenges Lancelet to single combat during a tourney and they fight. As they start to fight in earnest, Gwenhwyfar, who has warmed to Gwydion in the meantime, protests and Arthur interrupts the match. Lancelet makes Gwydion a knight of the Round Table, naming him Mordred.

    When the knights of the Round Table leave to search for the Holy Grail, Mordred attempts to usurp the throne. In a climactic battle, the armies of Arthur and Mordred fight and Arthur is mortally wounded. Morgaine takes the dying Arthur through the mists to Avalon, reassuring him that he did not fail in his attempt to save Britain from the approaching dark times. Arthur dies in her arms as the shoreline comes into view. Morgaine buries him in Avalon and remains there to tell the tale of Camelot.

    Morgaine — Narrator, protagonist. Her character is capable of second sight (a gift of her Goddess) and transfiguration. Her character is of notable status in the eyes of the old tribes of Britain and the post Roman aristocracy, being both a high priestess of Avalon and Queen of Cornwall in her own right. Portrayed as a tragic character, Morgaine is torn between her loyalty to Avalon and her unfulfilled love for Lancelet, although she has other lovers in the book, notably Arthur, Kevin, and Accolon. She often considers herself the victim of fate, having no choice in the decisions she makes in life. She is doomed to witness the demise of the old ways of Avalon, but in the end makes peace with certain aspects of Christianity, as she sees that she never fought the religion itself, but rather the narrow-minded views of some of its priests. She concludes that some memory of the ancient beliefs of Britain will live on, feeling that the Goddess she worshipped did not die with the coming of Christianity: rather, the Goddess just took another form in the image of the Virgin Mary.

    Uther Pendragon is the nephew and War Duke of the dead High King Ambrosius and an ambitious warlord who falls in love with Igraine. After being betrayed by his ally Gorlois (out of jealousy rather than for political reasons), he killed him and became the High King of Britain. He fathered King Arthur and died when Arthur was in his teens.

    Igraine is the wife in turn to Gorlois and Uther, a younger half-sister of Viviane, and the mother of Morgaine and Arthur. Originally named "Grainné, for the Goddess of the Beltane fires",[2] Igraine was brought up in Avalon and married at the age of fifteen to Duke Gorlois of Cornwall, a mostly unhappy union for her. She is destined by Viviane and Taliesin to betray her husband, seduce Uther and produce the saviour of the Island of Britain (her son King Arthur). At first, she rebels, stating she is not a breeding mare, but ultimately falls in love with Uther and helps him defeat his enemies. However, the guilt about Gorlois torments her to the end. Igraine adores Morgaine before Uther enters, but she then ignores Morgaine when she and Uther marry and when Arthur is born.

    Gorlois is Igraine's husband and Morgaine's father. Because Igraine was so young when they married, their relationship has been strained, but Gorlois did his best to make her feel comfortable, giving her gifts and letting her keep her daughter Morgaine. Igraine does not see how he loved her until it's too late. When Gorlois suspects that Igraine has an affair with Uther, he turns on her, accuses her of being a whore and a witch, and even breaks his oath to Uther. In the end, Uther kills him for treachery.

    King Arthur is the son of Igraine and Uther and younger half-brother to Morgaine. He is portrayed as a strong king, who marries Gwenhwyfar by arranged marriage. His compassion for his suffering wife — who is tormented by her childlessness and her love for Lancelet — ultimately becomes his downfall. A twist is that he is actually aware of Gwenhwyfar and Lancelet's affair, and how unhappy both are to continually betray him, but looks the other way because he loves both his wife and his best friend too much to make them unhappy. It is suggested that, while he does love Gwenhwyfar, his deepest love is saved for Morgaine.

    Gwenhwyfar is Arthur's beautiful but unhappy wife. She is brought up by a cold, unloving father, which left her with a deep inferiority complex and intense agoraphobia. Failing to produce an heir and unable to be with the love of her life, Lancelet, she falls into a deep depression and — hoping for salvation — becomes an increasingly fanatical Christian. Gwenhwyfar and Morgaine are depicted as polar opposites.

    Lancelet is Arthur's First Knight, Viviane's son (by Ban of Benwick) and Morgaine's cousin and first love. He is an extremely gifted and handsome warrior, but has a lifelong fear of his mother. He and Gwenhwyfar are utterly infatuated, but neither has the courage (or ruthlessness) to elope. He also loves his cousin Arthur, and perhaps loves Gwenhwyfar even more because she is so close to him. He is conflicted because of his bisexuality and his infatuation with both Arthur and Gwenhwyfar.

    Mordred, a.k.a. Gwydion, is the illegitimate son of Morgaine and King Arthur. He is an unscrupulous, cunning intrigant, but in contrast to mainstream versions his motives are understandable. He sees his father Arthur as corrupt and decadent, and is convinced that he has to remove him to save Camelot. It is strongly hinted that his childhood under the cold, cunning Morgause makes him think the way he does. Mordred does share one notable trait with his mother Morgaine: he truly believes that he is a pawn of fate, with no real free will to choose his path in life. This is possibly due to the influence of the fatalistic Saxons. At one point, Mordred even lists his father's good qualities and admits that he admires Arthur in several ways. Nevertheless, Mordred remains committed to pulling his father down from the throne of Camelot.

    Morgause is Morgaine's aunt, the younger sister of Viviane and Igraine. "Their mother, who had been really too old for childbearing, had died giving birth to Morgause. Viviane had borne a child of her own, earlier in the year; her child had died, and Viviane had taken Morgause to nurse."[3] She is depicted as a vain, cunning character and in contrast to her sisters, she acts purely for her own gains. She feels no regret in her regular adultery and plans to use both Morgaine and Mordred as vehicles for her power.

    Patricius, modernized as St. Patrick, is Camelot's most powerful Christian priest who drove the "snakes" (druids) from Ireland. He is portrayed in an extremely negative light, as a ruthless, misogynist religious fundamentalist.

    Elaine is Gwenhwyfar's cousin who eventually becomes Lancelet's wife. Elaine greatly resembles her cousin Gwenhwyfar in looks (albeit not in personality), which plays into her plan to marry Lancelet under dishonest circumstances. Morgaine offers Lancelet to Elaine on the condition that she is given Elaine's first daughter to rear in Avalon. With Lancelet she has three children: Galahad, Nimue, and Gwenhwyfar (named after the queen).

    Viviane is — for the most time — the High Priestess of Avalon. She is portrayed as a strong religious and political leader; her fatal flaw is her willingness to use others in her quest to save Avalon without thinking of their emotional suffering. She is misunderstood because her family has little contact with her and that she would have to do anything to keep Camelot and Avalon and the priestess of Avalon alive in everyone's hearts. Viviane is killed by her son Balan's foster-brother, Balin.

    Taliesin (the Merlin of Britain) is the old Archdruid and harpist of Avalon. He is revered by Christian and pagan alike as a wise, kind old man. He fathered Igraine, Morgause and Niniane. His mental health continually deteriorates throughout the story. (In this retelling, "Merlin" is a title rather than a proper name.)

    Kevin (Merlin of Britain) succeeds Taliesin after his death. He is a horribly disfigured hunchback, having been burned in a fire as a child, but can sing like an angel. He becomes Morgaine's lover and later her worst enemy. Foreseeing the demise of pagan ways, he betrays Avalon. In an ultimate attempt to unite Christianity and Avalon, so Avalon will survive, he brings the Holy Grail to Camelot. To punish him for this atrocity, Morgaine sets up Nimue to seduce and then betray him, and wants to torture him to death as a traitor. But before the torture begins, Morgaine changes her mind and has him executed swiftly out of mercy, and at the same time, a bolt of lightning incinerates the Holy Oak of Avalon. Morgaine understands that Avalon is doomed.

    Raven is a priestess of Avalon who has taken a perpetual vow of silence. Another original character, she sacrifices herself to help Morgaine save the Holy Grail from Patricius.

    Accolon is a knight loyal to Avalon, the second son of Uriens, and Morgaine's lover. She wants him to kill King Arthur and so restore the power of Avalon; however, Arthur slays Accolon in direct combat, and Morgaine is disgraced when her role becomes evident.

    Avalloch is Uriens' eldest son. He intends to rule North Wales as a Christian king, though he is not such a good Christian himself; upon discovering Morgaine and Accolon's affair, he threatens to expose her if she does not sleep with him as well. Morgaine kills him to preserve her reputation and put Accolon in position to inherit the throne from Uriens.

    Uwaine is Uriens' youngest son and a knight loyal to Arthur. He regards Morgaine as his mother.

    Nimue is the beautiful daughter of Elaine and Lancelet. As Viviane's granddaughter, she is to be Lady of the Lake when Morgaine dies. She is kept in constant seclusion at Avalon, and Morgaine sees her as the ultimate weapon against Camelot. Nimue seduces Kevin in order to abduct him, but instead falls in love with him and kills herself after she betrays him.

    Niniane is Taliesin's daughter, making her Viviane, Igraine and Morgause's half-sister. She is a priestess who reluctantly becomes Lady of the Lake after Viviane is slain and Morgaine declines to take her place. Niniane is not as powerful or politically astute as Morgaine or Viviane, and painfully aware of her shortcomings as Lady of the Lake. She becomes Mordred's lover, but when he announces his plans to betray Arthur, Niniane turns on him and he kills her in a fit of rage (whether this is accidental or intentional is never specified).

    Gawaine is a son of Lot and Morgause and one of Arthur's best Knights of the Round Table. He is known for being very kind, compassionate, and devoted to Arthur.

    Gareth is another son of Morgause and Knight of the Round Table. He is similar to Gawaine in both looks and personality, only more fearsome in battle. Lancelet is his childhood idol, although it is Lancelet who accidentally kills him.

    Galahad is Lancelet and Elaine's son and Arthur's heir to the throne. Mordred predicts that Galahad will not live to see his own crowning. Prediction proving true, Galahad dies on the quest for the Holy Grail.

    Cai is Arthur's foster-brother. After a near fatal accident as a small child, Arthur is sent to live with Cai and his father, Ectorius. Cai and Arthur love each other very much, and after Arthur is crowned, he tells Cai, "God strike me if I ever ask that you, brother, should call me [king]."[4] Cai is described as having a facial scar and a limp, two injuries that he received while protecting Arthur during a Saxon invasion. Cai is made Arthur's knight and chamberlain, and he keeps Arthur's castle for him.

    Marion Zimmer Bradley stated about her book:

    About the time I began work on the Morgan le Fay story that later became Mists, a religious search of many years culminated in my accepting ordination in one of the Gnostic Catholic churches as a priest. Since the appearance of the novel, many women have consulted me about this, feeling that the awareness of the Goddess has expanded their own religious consciousness, and ask me if it can be reconciled with Christianity. I do feel very strongly, not only that it can, but that it must... So when women today insist on speaking of Goddess rather than God, they are simply rejecting the old man with the white beard, who commanded the Hebrews to commit genocide on the Philistines and required his worshippers daily to thank God that He had not made them women... And, I suppose, a little, the purpose of the book was to express my dismay at the way in which religion lets itself become the slave of politics and the state. (Malory's problem ... that God may not be on the side of the right, but that organized religion always professes itself to be on the side of the bigger guns.) ... I think the neo-pagan movement offers a very viable alternative for people, especially for women, who have been turned off by the abuses of Judeo-Christian organized religions.[5]

    The Mists of Avalon is lauded as one of the most original and emotional retellings of the familiar Arthurian legend. Bradley received much praise for her convincing portrayal of the main protagonists, respectful handling of the Pagan ways of Avalon and for telling a story in which there is neither black and white nor good and evil, but several truths. Isaac Asimov called it "the best retelling of the Arthurian Saga I have ever read", and Jean Auel noted "I loved this book so much I went out and bought it for a friend, and have told many people about it."[6] The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction calls the book "a convincing revision of the Arthurian cycle," and said that the victory of Christianity over the "sane but dying paganism" of Avalon "ensures eons of repression for women and the vital principles they espouse." It won the 1984 Locus Award for Best Fantasy Novel and spent four months on the New York Times best seller list in hardcover. The trade paperback edition of Mists of Avalon has ranked among the top five trade paperbacks on the monthly Locus bestseller lists for almost four years.[7]

    The Mists of Avalon was adapted for television into a TNT miniseries in 2001, directed by Uli Edel.

    Bradley, along with Diana L. Paxson, later expanded the book into a series, including The Fall of Atlantis, Ancestors of Avalon, Sword of Avalon, Ravens of Avalon, The Forest House, Lady of Avalon, and Priestess of Avalon. J.S. Morgane's The Spirituality of Avalon discusses the religious aspects of the Avalon series and gives insights into a modern Western understanding of spirituality and its construction in epic fantasy fiction.[8]

    1983, United States, Knopf ISBN 0-394-52406-3, Pub Date January 1983, hardcover
    1984, United States, Del Rey Fantasy (an imprint of Ballantine Publishing Group) ISBN 0-345-31452-2, Pub Date May 1984, trade paperback

    References

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    ^ "Book review of The Mists of Avalon (video)". BlueRectangle.com/Pacific Book Exchange, LLC. 2007. Retrieved 2010-06-24.
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    ^ Bradley, Marion Zimmer (1982). The Mists of Avalon. New York: Ballantine Books. p. 19. ISBN 0-345-31452-2.
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    ^ Bradley, Marion Zimmer (1982). The Mists of Avalon. New York: Ballantine Books. p. 11. ISBN 0-345-31452-2.
    Jump up
    ^ Bradley, Marion Zimmer (1982). The Mists of Avalon. New York: Ballantine Books. p. 11. ISBN 0-345-31452-2.
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    ^ Bradley, Marion Zimmer (1986). "Thoughts on Avalon". Marion Zimmer Bradley Literary Works Trust.
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    ^ Critical praise ~ ReadingGroupGuides.com
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    ^ Arthur Through Women's Eyes: The Mists of Avalon ~ Space.com
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    ^ Morgane, Judith S (2010), The spirituality of Avalon the religion of the Great Goddess in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Avalon cycle, München AVM, ISBN 3-89975-768-8






    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mists_of_Avalon_(miniseries) The Mists of Avalon is a 2001 miniseries based on the 1983 novel of the same name by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Produced by American cable channel TNT, adapted by Gavin Scott, and directed by Uli Edel the series is a retelling of the Arthurian legend with an emphasis on the perspectives of Morgan le Fay and other women of the tale. The first episode was the highest-rated original movie on basic cable in the summer of 2001.[1]

    Part I: Igraine and Uther

    The film begins with a battered, dirty, and injured Morgaine riding in a small boat through a misty river. Most of the film is a reflection through her eyes, with Morgaine as narrator. In the beginning of the film, the Saxons are invading Britain. It is noted that a strong king is needed to unite Pagans and Christians and defeat the Saxons before Avalon, the island central to the pagan priestesses who worship the Three-fold Goddess (Maiden, Mother and Crone), and who are the female counterparts to the male Druids, and Britain are lost. Morgaine is eight-years-old, living with her pagan mother Igraine and Christian father Gorlois. Igraine's younger sister, Morgause, lives with them too. One day, their oldest sister, Viviane, the Lady of the Lake, High Priestess of Avalon, along with the Merlin, current holder of the title of the chief Druid, come to Igraine with a prophecy that she will bear the Pagan/Christian king who is destined to beat the Saxons. Igraine is distressed after being told that the child will not be Gorlois', and she refuses to bear the heir. Merlin explains that the father of the great king would be wearing a dragon on his arm, but Igraine will not listen. Suddenly, little Morgaine has a vision, seeing her father dead. Viviane is pleased yet concerned that Morgaine has "the Sight", as this gift so revered by her people yet is considered evil and unnatural by the Christians.

    Soon, Igraine and Gorlois, the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall, are invited to a feast with the High King, Ambrosius, who has called the feast to name his successor. In storms Uther Pendragon, a dashing and rugged man. Igraine is immediately drawn to him, and therefore Gorlois soon antagonizes Uther. However, as soon as Igraine sees Uther extend his arm, revealing the dragon of the prophecy, Igraine is flustered and leaves the Great Hall. Uther pursues her outside, where she attempts to be cold and unfeeling, trying to avoid any foretold attraction for this man who is not her husband. Uther expresses that he, as a Pagan, knew something bonded them before they even met. Gorlois interrupts the meeting, announcing out of jealousy that Uther was named the High King's successor.

    Later, after Uther is crowned, Gorlois sets his army up outside of Uther's camp to kill Uther. Viviane sends Igraine a vision and tells her she can still save Uther; Igraine sends her soul out to Uther and warns him just in time for his men to evacuate. A battle between Gorlois and Uther ensues, and Igraine faints. The next day, Morgaine sees her mother feverish and ill, and her aunt Morgause sends Morgaine to pick some herbs despite the manor being on lockdown on orders from Gorlois to protect Igraine and Morgaine. She is caught, but is released after a man in armor and Merlin approach the gates. A guard asks to see the masked man's face, and Merlin puts a charm on the man to make him appear as Gorlois. At first, Morgaine is thankful her father is alive, but she noticed the dragon of the man's arm and begins to understand that her "father" is Uther. Later, she is waiting for her father's body to come home. Morgause says that "Gorlois" is upstairs sleeping with Igraine, but Morgaine tells Morgause that her father is dead. Gorlois' corpse then arrives, and Igraine is shell shocked. Uther emerges in his true form. Morgause, however, ignores the drama, as the man who delivered Gorlois' body, King Lot of Orkney, takes notice of her, and she falls in love. Uther takes Morgaine and Igraine to Camelot, where Igraine gives birth to Arthur Pendragon, the grand new heir of the prophecy.

    Part II: Morgaine is taken to Avalon

    Arthur and Morgaine grow up loving each other dearly. When Arthur is five and Morgaine is thirteen, Viviane and Merlin return, saying that it is time to take Arthur away for his training with Merlin as future king. Viviane then orders Morgaine to come with her to Avalon to be trained as a priestess. Igraine and Uther do not want Morgaine to go, but Viviane threatens to withdraw Avalon's support of Uther, and Morgaine and Arthur are taken away from Camelot. Arthur and Morgaine are torn apart tearfully from each other, Arthur heading north with Merlin, and Morgaine heading south with Viviane. Viviane then takes Morgaine behind a misty curtain into a utopian island, Avalon. Viviane trains Morgaine to gain power of the elements, and in the servitude of the Three-fold Goddess. It takes ten years for Morgaine to be initiated, her final test being to part the mists. Igraine has a distressful vision of Morgaine "being taken." Soon after her initiation, Morgaine meets her cousin Lancelot (whose mother is Viviane), a handsome and bold warrior. He has come to seek his mother's blessing in battle, but she is reluctant to give it.

    Morgaine shows him a stone circle, and she begins to fall in love with him. Lancelot sees through the misty veil a few Christian nuns and some virgin postulants walking down a path. One of them strays and seems as if she is aware of Avalon's existence. Lancelot begs Morgaine to open the mists for her, and she does so. The postulant is startled, but quickly smitten with Lancelot, as Lancelot is with her. The girl's name is Gwenhwyfar, daughter of a Welsh king. Morgaine immediately dislikes Gwenhwyfar, and closes the mists on her, separating them. Lancelot, annoyed, decides to defy his mother and leaves. A few days later, on Beltane, Viviane sends Morgaine to be a part of a fertility rite as "The Virgin Huntress", where Morgaine is to make love to the man who kills the king's stag. Both partners are masked, so neither knows who the other is; still afterward, Morgaine longs for it to be Lancelot, but she knows she will never know for sure.

    Part III: Arthur is crowned

    Arthur having completed his training with Merlin, finds his father, Uther, in a Saxon battle just before he dies. He is locked in a burning church and calls to both God and Goddess for help. Viviane, on behalf of the Goddess, answers, and gives Arthur Excalibur in exchange for loyalty to Avalon and paganism as well as Christianity. Arthur quickly agrees, and defeats the Saxons. Morgaine is finally released from Avalon and returns to Camelot for her brother's coronation. She reunites first with Morgause, who is now Queen of Orkney and has a teenage son, Gawain. She then finds her mother, old and worn, sitting by a window with the Bishop Patrick. Igraine says that she is becoming a Christian nun and moving to Glastonbury. She says that she wants to seek repentance for betraying Gorlois long ago and being twice widowed. Morgaine is startled by this news and distressed.

    Meanwhile, Arthur has been given a Christian Princess as his bride. As Arthur introduces his bride to Lancelot, she is revealed to be Gwenhwyfar. Lancelot and Gwenhwyfar are bewildered by this twist of fate, and have an awkward first meeting. Arthur then happily reunites with Morgaine. But soon, Arthur naively reveals that he was the King's Stag at the Beltane feast. Morgaine, shocked that she'd made passionate love to her own brother, cries in despair and shame. In a brief scene, Morgause is seen performing an infertility curse on Gwenhwyfar, a woman "she has decided to hate," cursing her to barrenness.

    Arthur is crowned king under both the Pendragon and Christian banners. The Bishop Patrick then weds him to Gwenhwyfar. Merlin and Viviane appear startled, this union seemingly unexpected even to them. Morgause whispers to her husband that Gwenhwyfar will never have children, making her son Gawain next in line to the throne. Morgaine feels sick and quickly leaves the celebration. Morgause follows her; Morgaine reveals that she is pregnant but does not mention that Arthur is the father. Morgause is surprised—Morgaine's baby would inherit the crown before Gawain.

    Arthur is called away soon after his coronation, leaving Gwenhwyfar in Lancelot's care. They go riding one day, only to be attacked by Saxons. Lancelot saves Gwenhwyfar from being raped, and they hide. Gwenhwyfar and Lancelot kiss, but vow that their loyalties are to Arthur first, not each other, and they swear to never have an affair.

    Part IV: Mordred is born

    Morgause concocts a potion to help Morgaine abort her pregnancy. Viviane stops Morgaine before she can drink it. Morgause warns Morgaine to never be Viviane's pawn. Morgaine is furious with Viviane for letting this abomination happen: a bastard child fathered by her own brother. Viviane wants this baby to be Arthur's heir, whose pagan roots would make him the greatest ruler Britain has ever seen. Morgaine renounces Viviane and Avalon, and moves to Orkney with Morgause. In the middle of winter, Morgaine gives birth to a son, Mordred. Morgause is advised by her husband, Lot, to kill the child. Indeed, Morgause has ample opportunity to kill him, as Morgaine is unconscious due to a fever she develops after childbirth. She sets Mordred in front of a cold open window. Morgaine suddenly calls out in her fever that Arthur is the father. Morgause gets a new idea and saves the baby and takes him to be nursed. She tells her husband that she will tutor and raise Mordred so the boy will have her influence. She even nurses Mordred for the first time herself.

    Part V: Morgaine returns to Camelot

    This begins the second part of the miniseries. Morgaine, convinced by Morgause, decides to return to Camelot. Arthur has become the great king everyone has hoped for, and Gwenhwyfar is beginning to grow distressed at her inability to produce the son Arthur needs to succeed him. Arthur assures Gwenhwyfar that they are still young and have years to bear children. Morgaine returns to Camelot and is greeted by Arthur. She is introduced to Sir Accolon, a pagan Knight of the Round Table and son of the elderly pagan King Uriens of North Wales. Accolon and Morgaine are drawn to each other. Meanwhile, Lancelot is dealing with increased stress over Gwenhwyfar and his growing desire for her. Gwenhwyfar, obsessed with bearing children, resorts to asking Morgaine for a fertility charm. Morgaine obliges, and gives her the charm on the night of Beltane.

    On the night of Beltane, at a feast, Arthur gets very drunk. Meanwhile, Morgaine, feeling insulted by Arthur's lewd remarks towards paganism, leaves the feast and rides out towards the field where the pagans light the Beltane fires and dance. Accolon follows her outside. Arthur, in the meantime, is taken to bed, barely awake, by a spirited Lancelot and Gwenhwyfar. Arthur then brings up how he notices Lancelot and Gwenhwyfar looking at each other, and how Gwenhwyfar has no child. Arthur, blaming the lack of an heir on himself, suggests that Gwenhwyfar sleep with both him and Lancelot in the hopes of conceiving the needed heir. Arthur emphasizes that Gwenhwyfar will be able to swear that the child was conceived in the king's bed. Lancelot and Gwenhwyfar are both skeptical, but Arthur persuades them, and they all bed down together. Meanwhile, Morgaine and Accolon kiss amongst the dancing pagans.

    The next day, Lancelot is feeling regret for what he has done with Gwenhwyfar and Arthur. Morgaine realizes that Lancelot will never love her, so she devises an alternative to Lancelot feeling regret and sadness all his life. Gwenhwyfar has, by this time, gotten her period, and therefore still remains barren. Her serving woman, Elaine, is ecstatic, as Lancelot (encouraged by Morgaine) has asked her to marry him (she was previously seen looking at him). Gwenhwyfar, angered and distressed, dismisses her. Gwenhwyfar is also annoyed at Morgaine, who promised the charm would work, and resents Arthur for insisting the threesome would work.

    At Lancelot and Elaine's wedding, Morgaine speaks with Merlin. Viviane is absent from her son's wedding, as the pagan banners of Pendragon have been taken down from Camelot due to Gwenhwyfar being hysterically upset with the "painted savages." Meanwhile, King Uriens discusses taking a second wife (he is a widower) with Arthur, and out of spite, Gwenhwyfar suggests Morgaine. Arthur is not too keen on the idea, but he and Gwenhwyfar ask Morgaine. Gwenhwyfar carefully words the proposal, and Morgaine thinks it is Accolon proposing, and accepts. She only finds out too late that she was engaged to the father, and not the son. Morgaine decides that it would be for the best to go through with the marriage, as Wales was an important political ally. Merlin, upset by Morgaine leaving Camelot with Uriens, leaves the feast.

    Part VI: Mordred learns of his birthright

    Merlin, upon returning to Avalon, dies of old age and tiredness, with Viviane horribly upset, and Avalon filling with mist. Morgaine, ironically, finds her marriage to Uriens to be the few happy years her life would bring her. Accolon becomes like a son to her, and for the first time in her life, she feels like part of a family.

    Meanwhile, in Scotland, Mordred, Morgaine's son by Arthur, has grown to manhood. Viviane comes to him and tells him of his being next in line for the throne. Mordred takes this to heart and tells Morgause (whom he called "Mother") he is going to claim his birthright. When he arrives in Camelot, Arthur is planning to turn back the Saxons, who have come on Britain again in force. Mordred makes himself known to Arthur only as his nephew, his mother being Morgaine. Arthur is not told Mordred is his son, and Mordred is welcomed with open arms into Camelot. King Uriens dies, and Morgaine decides to go back to Avalon. However, the mists will not open for her, and Morgaine believes the Goddess is dying. In despair, she crouches in the boat and lets herself float, only to be found by Igraine, still alive and living among the nuns. The women have a brief but happy reunion.

    Mordred and Arthur, overlooking the knights one day, begin a discussion about the next heir. Mordred insists Arthur should name someone, but Arthur still believes Gwenhwyfar might still bear a son. Mordred insists he choose someone before Arthur dies in battle. Arthur says he needs someone of his own descent. It is here that Mordred reveals himself as Arthur's son and that Morgaine was the Virgin Huntress from long ago. Gwenhwyfar overhears this and runs away, embarrassed and despairing.

    Part VII: The downfall of Camelot

    Gwenhwyfar has fallen frantically into praying all day before her dozens of religious icons. One day Lancelot meets her there, and they plan a secret rendezvous, only to have Mordred overhear. Mordred catches the pair before they sleep together, and he threatens to take both of them before the king and have them hanged for infidelity. Lancelot and Gwenhwyfar escape, and they part for the last time. Gwenhwyfar enters Glastonbury, where Igraine meets her. Igraine takes her to Morgaine, still living there, and both women finally make amends with each other.

    Morgaine goes back to Camelot, now in ruins, with various men crucified, hanged and decapitated along the walls of the palace. Mordred, Morgaine, Viviane, and Morgause all meet on the stairs to the palace. Viviane reveals Morgause's evil for all to see, reminding the people of the true ways of the Goddess; Morgause, in anger, takes a knife to kill Viviane, but Viviane catches the knife and accidentally stabs Morgause, who falls dead. Mordred, having thought of Morgause as his real mother, takes his sword and kills Viviane in turn. Because Viviane was Lady of the Lake, the sun is eclipsed, and Igraine senses her sisters are dead. Raven, a priestess who had taken a vow of silence, screams vocally for the first time in despair.

    A final battle then is set to take place between the Saxons and Arthur's army. Lancelot joins him at the front lines just before the battle. Morgaine is off seeing over the cremation of Viviane and Morgause. Mordred has actually joined the Saxons and is leading them to Arthur. Morgaine sees this in a vision as the bodies of her aunts burn before her, and rides off to the battlefield. The fierce battle kills all until only Mordred and Arthur stand. Morgaine arrives all too late. She sees the bodies of Gawain, Accolon, and Lancelot among the thousands. Mordred and Arthur have both fatally wounded each other. Mordred dies first, in Morgaine's arms, but Arthur lingers. Arthur begs Morgaine to take him to Avalon.

    Part VIII: A new incarnation

    As in the beginning, Morgaine is in the boat. Arthur, barely alive, is lying in front of her; Morgaine tries to part the mists, but fails. Arthur holds out Excalibur, suggesting the Goddess needs an offering. Morgaine hurls the sword into the mist, where it is mystically transformed into a cross, and temporarily opens up the mists to Avalon. Arthur sees Avalon, and Morgaine declares, "We're home!" Arthur sees the beautiful land, and then dies. As Arthur dies, the mists close permanently.

    Morgaine then goes to Glastonbury — not to live as a nun, but because she has nowhere else to go. She is convinced the Goddess is dead, until one day she sees a little girl praying at the feet of a statue that once represented the Goddess, but is now dressed as the Virgin Mary. Morgaine smiles, realizing that the Goddess has simply taken a new form, and that one day, perhaps the mists of Avalon will part again.

    Cast

    Anjelica Huston as Viviane, Lady of the Lake
    Julianna Margulies as Morgaine
    Joan Allen as Morgause
    Samantha Mathis as Gwenhwyfar
    Edward Atterton as Arthur
    Michael Vartan as Lancelot
    Caroline Goodall as Igraine
    Michael Byrne as Merlin
    Hans Matheson as Mordred
    Mark Lewis Jones as Uther
    Clive Russell as Gorlois
    Biddy Hodson as Elaine
    Ian Duncan as Accolon
    Tamsin Egerton as young Morgaine
    Freddie Highmore as young Arthur

    Reception

    The Mists of Avalon was watched by more than 30 million "unduplicated viewers" during its premiere; the first episode "was the highest-rated original movie of the summer on basic cable."[1] Critical reception was mixed but generally positive. USA Today gave the miniseries three stars out of four, crediting its success to Margulies, Huston and Allen as well as Gavin Scott's adaptation.[2] Reviews from Entertainment Weekly and The San Francisco Chronicle were also somewhat positive.[3][4] Hollywood.com said simply that the series "works" and that "instead of glorifying these legendary characters, Avalon fleshes out their weaknesses, desires and ultimate failures."[5]

    The Mists of Avalon was nominated for an Emmy Award for Best Miniseries and Joan Allen and Anjelica Huston were nominated for Best Supporting Actress in a miniseries or movie. Margulies was nominated for a Golden Globe and Huston for a Screen Actors Guild Award.

    References
    ^
    Jump up to:
    a b Ward, Walter (August 28, 2001). "Witchblade, The Mists of Avalon, Law & Order and NASCAR Cap Dramatic Summer for TNT". Timewarner.com. Archived from the original on April 9, 2005. Retrieved August 22, 2014.
    Jump up
    ^ Bianco, Robert (July 13, 2001). "Mists features strong women, acting". USA Today. Retrieved August 22, 2014.
    Jump up
    ^ Ken Tucker (July 13, 2001). "The Mists of Avalon Review". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved August 22, 2014.
    Jump up
    ^ Goodman, Tim (July 13, 2001). "Women take over Camelot / TNT's Mists of Avalon uses female touch to improve legend". SFgate.com. Retrieved August 22, 2014.
    Jump up
    ^ "Miniseries Review: The Mists of Avalon". Hollywood.com. July 2001. Retrieved August 22, 2014.




    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:21 pm; edited 14 times in total
    avatar
    mudra

    Posts : 18564
    Join date : 2010-04-09
    Age : 63
    Location : belgium

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  mudra on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:02 pm



    There was a time when a traveller, if he had the will and knew only a few of the secrets, could send his barge out into the Summer Sea and arrive not at Glastonbury of the monks, but at the Holy Isle of Avalon; for at that time the gates between the worlds drifted within the mists, and were open, on to another, as the traveller thought and willed. For this is the great secret, which was known to all educated men in our day: that by what men think, we create the world around us, daily new.


    Marion Zimmer Bradley


    Mystic Dream

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAfWH_CKVw


    Love from me
    mudra
    avatar
    orthodoxymoron

    Posts : 7810
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:15 pm


    Thank-you mudra. The strength of various religions resides in Community, Hierarchy, Focus, and Repetition. Modern Transportation and Communication are destroying this Center. Certainty is being replaced with Confusion. I suspect that in the Pre-Eden 'Good Old Days' a 'Benevolent-Theocracy' was the 'Rule of the Universe' and no one questioned this (but what do I know??)!! Anyway, I have no idea what I'm stumbling-into with this thread, so I'll take my time. This reminds me of my 'Amen Ra' thread on the original and closed 'Project Avalon' website, which seemed to open 'Pandora's Box' for (or against) me!! http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18223
    avatar
    mudra

    Posts : 18564
    Join date : 2010-04-09
    Age : 63
    Location : belgium

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  mudra on Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:20 pm


    Happy travels through this thread Oxy.

    Love from me
    mudra
    avatar
    orthodoxymoron

    Posts : 7810
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:55 pm

    mudra wrote:


    There was a time when a traveller, if he had the will and knew only a few of the secrets, could send his barge out into the Summer Sea and arrive not at Glastonbury of the monks, but at the Holy Isle of Avalon; for at that time the gates between the worlds drifted within the mists, and were open, on to another, as the traveller thought and willed. For this is the great secret, which was known to all educated men in our day: that by what men think, we create the world around us, daily new.

    Marion Zimmer Bradley

    Mystic Dream

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAfWH_CKVw


    Love from me
    mudra

    Thank-you mudra. The strength of various religions resides in Community, Hierarchy, Focus, and Repetition. Modern Transportation and Communication are destroying this Center. Certainty is being replaced with Confusion. I suspect that in the Pre-Eden 'Good Old Days' a 'Benevolent-Theocracy' was the 'Rule of the Universe' and no one questioned this (but what do I know??)!! Anyway, I have no idea what I'm stumbling-into with this thread, so I'll take my time. This reminds me of my 'Amen Ra' thread on the original and closed 'Project Avalon' website, which seemed to open 'Pandora's Box' for (or against) me!! http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18223
    mudra wrote:
    Happy travels through this thread Oxy.

    Love from me
    mudra




    Thank-you mudra. What if those three ladies are Carol, Mudra, and Pris?? Just Kidding!! Or Am I?? Who Am I?? What Am I?? Perhaps I'll ultimately combine the Best of 'The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133' with 'The United States of the Solar System, A.D. 2133'. This might shed light on Lucio Bernardo Silvestre's 'The End of the World, A.D. 2133'. Perhaps All of the Above have everything to do with a Science-Fictional Version of Victorian England!! What Would Queen Victoria Say?? What Would Ellen White Say?? On the other hand, perhaps I should drop the whole-thing, and slowly walk-away. Perhaps 100 years of solitude awaits me (in a 600 square-foot office-apartment beneath the Dark-Side of the Moon). 'RA' said it would be dark where I was going. If so, would that be a good-thing or a bad-thing?? This Whole-Thing Seems to be a 'Great-Controversy Between Christ and Satan' Supercomputer-Matrix 'Conflict of the Ages Program' (Created by David Bowman in Antiquity). Jeff Daugherty seemed almost livid in his recent video where he ranted about AI as I AM!! He spoke of a 'Failed God' replaced by 'Artificial-Intelligence"!! I just had a horrifying thought!! The follow-up movie to '2001: A Space Odyssey' was '2010: The Year We Make Contact'. 'RA' made contact with me in A.D. 2010, and 'RA' said "I can't talk about the NSA". What if the Moon is Avalon?? What if the Earth is Avalon?? What if the Solar System is Avalon?? What is Camelot?? What is Jeopardy?? What is Double-Jeopardy?? What is Life?? Does It Really Matter??

















    avatar
    Carol
    Admin
    Admin

    Posts : 21920
    Join date : 2010-04-07
    Location : Hawaii

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  Carol on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:49 pm

    Oxy, what I like and appreciate about your posts is how thought provoking and diverse they are. You manage to pull all types of various perspectives together to explore and consider. Mahalo


    Alas life is a journey with many forks in the road for those who choose to travel them. I've recently come to view how pervasive the mind numbing programing where Hollyhorrowood has turned so many into loonytoons who have next to no common sense and whose role in society is that of disrupters. One viable path for an individual who seeks inner peace is to be closely connected with nature and to live in harmony with the environment. Hence to avoid contaminated water, air, food and mind numbing electronics.

    In one lifetime...

    How Old Is Grandpa?

    Stay with this -- the answer is at the end. 
  
It may blow you away. 
  
One evening a grandson was talking to his grandfather about current events. 
  
The grandson asked his grandfather what he thought about the shootings at schools, the computer age, and just things in general. 


    The Grandfather replied, "Well, let me think a minute,
    I was born before:
    
' television 
    
' penicillin 
    
' polio shots 
    
' frozen foods 
    
' Xerox 
    
' contact lenses 

    ' Frisbees and 
    
' the pill 
  


    There were no: 

    ' credit cards 
    
' laser beams
    or 
' ball-point pens 
  

    
Man had not invented :
     
' pantyhose 
    
' air conditioners 
    
' dishwashers 
    
' clothes dryers 
' 
    and the clothes were hung out to dry in the fresh air and 

    ' space travel was only in Flash Gordon books. 



    Your Grandmother and I got married first,...
    and then lived together.. 
  

    Every family had a father and a mother.
    Until I was 25, I called every woman older than me, "mam".
    And after I turned 25, I still called policemen and every man with a title, "Sir." 
  

    
We were before gay-rights,
    computer-dating,
    dual careers,
    daycare centers,
    and group therapy. 
  


    Our lives were governed by the Bible, good judgment, and common sense.

    We were taught to know the difference between right and wrong and to stand up and take responsibility for our actions. 
  


    Serving your country was a privilege;
    living in this country was a bigger privilege...

    We thought fast food was eating half a biscuit while running to catch the school bus. 
  


    Having a meaningful relationship meant getting along with your cousins. 
  


    Draft dodgers were those who closed front doors as the evening breeze started. 
  


    Time-sharing meant time the family spent together in the evenings and weekends-not purchasing condominiums. 



    We never heard of FM radios,
    tape decks,
    CDs,
    electric typewriters,
    yogurt,
    or guys wearing earrings. 
  


    We listened to Big Bands,
    Jack Benny,
    and the President's speeches on our radios.

    And I don't ever remember any kid blowing his brains out listening to Tommy Dorsey. 
  


    If you saw anything with 'Made in Japan ' on it, it was junk. 
  

    
The term 'making out' referred to how you did on your school exam.... 
  
    
Pizza Hut,
    McDonald's,
    and instant coffee were unheard of. 
  


    We had 5 &10-cent stores where you could actually buy things for 5 and 10 cents.
    Ice-cream cones,
    phone calls,
    rides on a streetcar,
    and a Pepsi were all a nickel.

    And if you didn't want to splurge, you could spend your nickel on enough stamps to mail 1 letter and 2 postcards. 
  


    You could buy a new Ford Coupe for $600,
    ... but who could afford one?
    Too bad, because gas was 11 cents a gallon. 
  

    In my day: 
    
' "grass" was mowed, 
' 
    "coke" was a cold drink, 
'
     "pot" was something your mother cooked in and 
    
' "rock music" was your grandmother's lullaby. 
    
' "Aids" were helpers in the Principal's office, 
    
' "chip" meant a piece of wood, 
    
' "hardware" was found in a hardware store and
     
' "software" wasn't even a word. 
  


    And we were the last generation to actually believe that a lady needed a husband to have a baby. 
  


    No wonder people call us "old and confused" and say there is a generation gap. 
  


    How old do you think I am? 



    I bet you have this old man in mind....you are in for a shock! 
  
Read on to see -- pretty scary if you think about it and pretty sad at the same time . 
  
Are you ready ?????



    This man would be 70 years old today.  70 years ago was 1947.


    Last edited by Carol on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
    avatar
    JoeEcho

    Posts : 282
    Join date : 2015-05-04
    Location : Temporal

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  JoeEcho on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:00 am

    Carol wrote:Alas life is a journey with many forks in the road for those who choose to travel them. I've recently come to view how pervasive the mind numbing programing where Hollyhorrowood has turned so many into loonytoons who have next to no common sense and whose role in society is that of disrupters. One viable path for an individual who seeks inner peace is to be closely connected with nature and to live in harmony with the environment. Hence to avoid contaminated water, air, food and mind numbing electronics.


    Ironically the more 'disrupters' the more covered the viable path will be to perceive.

    It's as if a devious plan is in place, like knowledge (information overload) itself hides the path.
    avatar
    orthodoxymoron

    Posts : 7810
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:46 am

    Carol wrote:Alas life is a journey with many forks in the road for those who choose to travel them. I've recently come to view how pervasive the mind numbing programing where Hollyhorrowood has turned so many into loonytoons who have next to no common sense and whose role in society is that of disrupters. One viable path for an individual who seeks inner peace is to be closely connected with nature and to live in harmony with the environment. Hence to avoid contaminated water, air, food and mind numbing electronics.

    In one lifetime...

    How Old Is Grandpa?

    Stay with this -- the answer is at the end. 
      
    It may blow you away. 
      
    One evening a grandson was talking to his grandfather about current events. 
      
    The grandson asked his grandfather what he thought about the shootings at schools, the computer age, and just things in general. 

    The Grandfather replied, "Well, let me think a minute,
    I was born before:

    ' television 

    ' penicillin 

    ' polio shots 

    ' frozen foods 

    ' Xerox 

    ' contact lenses 

    ' Frisbees and 

    ' the pill 

    There were no: 

    ' credit cards 

    ' laser beams
     
    ' ball-point pens 

    Man had not invented :
     
    ' pantyhose 

    ' air conditioners 

    ' dishwashers 

    ' clothes dryers 

    and the clothes were hung out to dry in the fresh air and 

    ' space travel was only in Flash Gordon books. 

    Your Grandmother and I got married first,...
    and then lived together.. 

    Every family had a father and a mother.
    Until I was 25, I called every woman older than me, "mam".
    And after I turned 25, I still called policemen and every man with a title, "Sir." 

    We were before gay-rights,
    computer-dating,
    dual careers,
    daycare centers,
    and group therapy. 

    Our lives were governed by the Bible, good judgment, and common sense.

    We were taught to know the difference between right and wrong and to stand up and take responsibility for our actions. 

    Serving your country was a privilege;
    living in this country was a bigger privilege...

    We thought fast food was eating half a biscuit while running to catch the school bus. 

    Having a meaningful relationship meant getting along with your cousins. 

    Draft dodgers were those who closed front doors as the evening breeze started. 

    Time-sharing meant time the family spent together in the evenings and weekends-not purchasing condominiums. 

    We never heard of FM radios,
    tape decks,
    CDs,
    electric typewriters,
    yogurt,
    or guys wearing earrings. 

    We listened to Big Bands,
    Jack Benny,
    and the President's speeches on our radios.

    And I don't ever remember any kid blowing his brains out listening to Tommy Dorsey. 

    If you saw anything with 'Made in Japan ' on it, it was junk. 

    The term 'making out' referred to how you did on your school exam.... 

    Pizza Hut,
    McDonald's,
    and instant coffee were unheard of. 

    We had 5 &10-cent stores where you could actually buy things for 5 and 10 cents.
    Ice-cream cones,
    phone calls,
    rides on a streetcar,
    and a Pepsi were all a nickel.

    And if you didn't want to splurge, you could spend your nickel on enough stamps to mail 1 letter and 2 postcards. 

    You could buy a new Ford Coupe for $600,
    ... but who could afford one?
    Too bad, because gas was 11 cents a gallon. 

    In my day: 

    ' "grass" was mowed, 

    "coke" was a cold drink, 
    '
     "pot" was something your mother cooked in and 

    ' "rock music" was your grandmother's lullaby. 

    ' "Aids" were helpers in the Principal's office, 

    ' "chip" meant a piece of wood, 

    ' "hardware" was found in a hardware store and
     
    ' "software" wasn't even a word. 

    And we were the last generation to actually believe that a lady needed a husband to have a baby. 

    No wonder people call us "old and confused" and say there is a generation gap. 

    How old do you think I am? 

    I bet you have this old man in mind....you are in for a shock! 
      
    Read on to see -- pretty scary if you think about it and pretty sad at the same time . 
      
    Are you ready ?????

    This man would be 70 years old today.  70 years ago was 1947.
    JoeEcho wrote:
    Carol wrote:Alas life is a journey with many forks in the road for those who choose to travel them. I've recently come to view how pervasive the mind numbing programing our to Hollyhorrowood has turned so many into loonytoons who have next to no common sense and whose role in society is that of disrupters. One viable path for an individual who seeks inner peace is to be closely connected with nature and to live in harmony with the environment. Hence to avoid contaminated water, air, food and mind numbing electronics.
    Ironically the more 'disrupters' the more covered the viable path will be to perceive. It's as if a devious plan is in place, like knowledge (information overload) itself hides the path.
    Thank-you Carol and Joe. Do we resist what seems to be the Highly-Technological Controlled-Demolition of the Human-Race?? OR, do we simply attempt to keep-up and/or lead the pack of King and Queen Rats?? One of my current theories is that Humanity was faced with a significant-choice around 1900 regarding which way this civilization would proceed. I have some particulars in mind, but I don't wish to elaborate, at this point. Anything I'd say, could (and would) be used against me. Let me simply say that astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell articulately described how far technology had advanced in his lifetime. Did the Raiders of the Lost Ark cook their own goose?? What Would Rene Belloq Say?? 'RA' spoke of 'Stolen-Technology' and 'Humanity Being Screwed'. Did ET provide Earthlings with the opportunity to enslave and/or exterminate themselves in a highly-sophisticated manner?? Al Bielek spoke of a Huge War (or something extremely devastating) between A.D. 2000 and A.D. 2137, which would result in a World-Earthling Population of Three-Hundred Million (Under Military-Rule). I wonder what the World-Population was prior to the Garden of Eden (however one wishes to interpret that term)?? What if it was Three-Hundred Million?? What if Three-Hundred Million Souls Have a Legitimate-Right to be Here?? What if the Rest are 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' (Stealing Fire From the Gods)?? A couple of years ago, an Elderly-Mason (in a Masonic-Cemetery) told me that a near-future catastrophe of some-sort would result in the random-deaths of at least 80% of Humanity. What if we are approaching the End of the Millennium?? I might not have said all of the above quite-right, but you might be able to decipher my hieroglyphics!!

    'RA' said that 87% of Humanity would go insane if presented with the absolute-truth. Was this a precise-figure based-upon what I'm suggesting above?? Sherry Shriner has spoken of an Ancient Nasty-Invasion of Earth which was Audio and Video Recorded (in the possession of the White-Reptilians Under the Gobi Desert)!! What if this Hypothetical-Record resides in an Ancient-Supercomputer?? What if this Supercomputer is the basis of an Investigative and Executive Judgment of This Solar System?? This thing might be more nasty and complex than Any of Us can imagine. Sherry Shriner recently said that the Door of the Ark closed a couple of weeks ago (which would be near the beginning of November 2017). Did Probation Close?? Will Disclosure Accelerate?? An Individual of Interest told me (a few years ago) that there would be 'Pandemonium' (possibly in reference to the Rebels seeing what those who were loyal to God got). Honest. Recently, Jeff Daugherty angrily spoke of Souls Being Tricked Into Incarnating Humanity, a Failed-God, and Back-Up Artificial-Intelligence Theocratic-Governance. What brought THAT On?? I've tweaked my SDA Eschatological Background regarding Judgment and the End of the World (as we know it). I've hinted-at a lot of things, but I haven't really spoken-plainly or summarized the results of my quest. I think I might continue my Jackson Pollock Approach to Life the Universe and Everything. You'd Probably Have to Already Know, to Know What I Obscurely-Suggest, and I'll Probably Keep It That Way. It Might Be Easier That Way. Namaste and Have a Nice Sun-God Day.




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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  Carol on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:25 am

    Once again the diverse and various perspectives you've raised Oxy is a lot to consider. I was thinking earlier this morning about this one abductees youtube video on what the group of ETs this person had interacted with and other abductees along with contactees I've met/personally know and what they had to share about their "diverse" experiences.

    Many years back I had a neighbor who spoke about an abductee she knew where he shared with her how he had been levitated out of bed, down his stairs and out the door. Back then the thought of such a thing actually happening was terrifying. She of course was fascinated and being totally naive, unaware and ignorant of any of this I was in the opposite camp and wished to remain ignorant and unaware. It was years later after becoming a professional psychotherapist that I had a client patient who was an abductee begin to share what happened during the abductions that made me realized that in order to be of help I needed to learn everything that I could about ET abductions, missing time and the subsequent post traumatic stress that resulted. Subsequently I read all the books by other therapists working with folks who were abductees, read the stories and began interacting / doing counseling sessions with numerous others who had these diverse and various experiences.

    Unlike Dr. Jacobs I reached a different conclusion then he did. Most of his client/patients were abductees with similar traumatic stories that he uncovered under hypnosis as most of them were subject to missing time, mind-control, implantation and the loss of their contact experiences.

    These individuals would first be paralyzed, most often at night while in bed, where the short typical biological AIs would abduct them and take them on board ships or elsewhere for experimentation purposes. Most of them had genetic material removed, scoop marks somewhere on their body, sophisticated implantations that monitored their location and whatever else. Generally there was a family history of various others family members involved along with military involvement. Some of the implantations seemed to be man-made and to other implantations were unknown. Keep in mind that the secret government military have been involved in time travel since the 40s which has been confirmed by various credible military whistle blowers including Col. Corso who was a personal friend of another friend of mine and who's transcripts of some of his experiences, I read.

    So we have a group of both civilians and military people who were exploited and used in various experimentations including an ET hybrid program that has lasted for years. Almost all of these individuals had been subjected to mind control where their memories were altered, wiped or an overlay memory was put in place. These individuals suffer from an ongoing sense of fear never knowing when they would be abducted as this went on for years along with suffering the physical abuse that was deeply embedded within their psyche and led to ongoing PTS. Because the abduction was not an isolated event, the PTS was persistent and ongoing. They often suffered from multiple physical and psychological ailments, difficulty with sleeping, sometimes they developed split personalities, had difficulty with close personal relationships along with experiencing a ongoing sense of pervading underlying fear as they never knew when then were going to be abducted. They tended to become hyper-vigelent and some were exceptionally gifted in a variety of fields including art. Some learned how to emotionally split off the traumatized parts of themselves to live very productive lives yet still suffered at a deeper psychological level. Some fell into the category of the Stockholm Syndrome identifying with their abuser in order to emotionally survive their ongoing abuse/trauma. Some were victims of ongoing rape by military within these programs where they could open up portals into the targeted individuals room and take them into their secure areas for further physical/sexual abuse.

    Abductees did not have a choice as to being taken or were consciously aware of what happened to them as a result of having their memory altered. They are classic victims who were prayed upon for experimentation purposes in a long term secret/ET rogue government program.

    Take this particular program to the next level and one can see how over time these individuals were conditioned to accept the mind-control they were subjected to. And then there would those individuals who resisted.. along with those who succumbed and helped their abductors control other victims. AI appears to have been involved from the onset especially when one considers the little biological units used to abduct humans who were being experimented upon.

    Now there are many different off-worlders who are on this planet and visit this planet. All with different agendas. Some view humans as a food stock much like humans view cattle. Some view humans as a species who need help with their evolutions. Some who view earth like a train station where one stops off to gather supplies prior to going off to their next planetary destination. One has to sort out, if at all possible, who or which group they may be interacting with if that is even possible. For most abductees.. not so much.

    Next, let's skip to the contactees. Some who are personal friends other acquaintances. The difference here is that a contactee for the most part is "asked", has a conscious memory of the interaction and also a positive relationship with the off-worlders that they interact with. This relationship is also unique and share similar characteristics around the world (Italy, South America, Australia, etc.). This group of off-worlders are attempting to help humanity as compared to exploit as with the group who interact with the abductees. Many have shared their experiences in books like Mass Contacts by Stefano Breccia. Speaking with him about his experiences was exceptionally enlightening as he shared much about his positive experiences with the group of off-worlders that he interacted with for over 50 years and the negative experiences with the sociopathic clones that they left behind who are very technologically oriented and most likely very involved in the whole AI movement on the planet. They are everywhere in business and government, non-human who pass for human and I've often wondered if they were soulless as well.

    Some of the more recent universal off-worlders interactions wishing to help humanity also warn of upcoming earth changes. Their presence is one of wanting to help humanity through what is coming to pass, whereas the AI group want to take control of humanity and use them like slaves if at all.

    So pretty much all of the different perspectives you like to pull together and explore Oxy may, or may not be possibilities that are playing our in our multi-verse for us to experience. However, I still stick with something Dr. Steven Greer told me when I share with him my singularity "Christ" experience. He said that Christ, Yehsua was a Universal Avatar. That made complete sense to me.

    Everything else Oxy, including Hollyhorrowwood along with AI, are all distractions to keep humanity from the goal of reuniting with our Divine Origin. Just keep in mind when you go off exploring all the possibilities the words, Neti, Neti, Neti. (Not this, Not this, Not this.) Once you have experienced singularity there is no mistaking it for anything fake. Those who have not experienced singularity could and can easily be tricked into accepting a fake experience as real and end up spiritually lost in the nether-world.


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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:47 pm

    Thank-you for your lengthy and detailed post, Carol. I've read a lot of your posts throughout the years, which presented similar information, but this most-recent post ties a lot of things together. I noticed that you also made a post on another thread, which seemed to fit in with what you posted on this thread, so I've quoted it below. The video suggests things I'm presently considering, but I still consider all of this stuff to be science-fiction (which might contain some truth). This helps me maintain my distance from what often seems horrific and traumatic. There also seems to be a lot of lying everywhere (not just regarding Aliens and UFO's). What if we live in a Demon-Possessed Solar-System?? I keep thinking about that old-movie 'The Exorcist'. The little-girl was put-through every imaginable test, seemingly to avoid the 'Demon-Possession' can of worms. What if most-all of us are 'Reformed Ancient-Pazuzus'??!! What if the Universe is an extremely tough and bizarre context in which Humanity was genetically-engineered by some of the Smartest and Toughest Galactic-Warriors (with the assistance of Supercomputers)??!! It's a lot simpler to have Traditional-Religion and/or Traditional-Evolution. Almighty-God or No-God might be more desirable than the Genetic-Engineering and Secret-Governance by Ancient-Warriors and/or a Supercomputer-Matrix. We might be facing an Ancient and Ongoing Ideological and Factional Civil-War Between Soul-Relatives. I continue to wish to 'Back-Off' This Present Quest. My mental, physical, and spiritual health continues to deteriorate, and I think it has everything to do with trying to do the right-thing. Bad-Aliens and Nice-People seem to wish to maintain the Status-Quo.
    Carol wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3206&v=clRbKFFpsUY
    I Was An Alien Abductee – What I Have To Say Will Shock You

    "An alien abductee has come forward and publicly revealed the plan extraterrestrials have for humanity in the next few years. After being abducted by aliens for the last 17 years of his life, the anonymous abductee says he wants to share his experience with the public so they can learn the truth about extraterrestrials.

    The terms alien abduction or abduction phenomenon describe “subjectively real memories of being taken secretly against one’s will by apparently nonhuman entities and subjected to complex physical and psychological procedures”. Such abductions have sometimes been classified as close encounters of the fourth kind. People claiming to have been abducted are usually called “abductees” or “experiencers”.

    Due to a lack of objective physical evidence, most scientists and mental health professionals dismiss the phenomenon as “deception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness, hypnotizability, false memory syndrome), personality, sleep paralysis, psychopathology, psychodynamics [and] environmental factors”. Skeptic Robert Sheaffer sees similarity between the aliens depicted in science fiction films, in particular, Invaders From Mars, and some of those reported to have actually abducted people.

    Typical claims involve being subjected to forced medical examinations that emphasize abductee reproductive systems. Abductees sometimes claim to have been warned against environmental abuse and the dangers of nuclear weapons. While many of these claimed encounters are described as terrifying, some have been viewed as pleasurable or transformative. via Wikipedia"


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  mudra on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:24 pm

    I am only 7 years younger than Grandpa above .I have a foot in the world as he knew it and another in the one I entered in. I feel like having been at the turning point between the two. But the pace of change in the last 60 years has been going so fast that I had just entered my own new world and begun to appreciate it when many others ahead kept rushing in. Has it been like that for every generation or is this special to the century we are in ?
    In that epic movie my life is made of my Ariadne's thread has been Consciousness. I feel everything may be stripped away from me in this crazy maze but Consciousness will remain. Now if life around me becomes more easy, more comfortable, more peacefull, more loving on planet Earth of course I won't complain :)
    In truth I feel we landed on a boat that is sailing on a rough sea. As JoeEcho aptly points it this makes the viable path uneasy to perceive.

    Love from me
    mudra
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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:37 pm

    Thank-you mudra. I often feel like I was the Wrong-Guy to be dropped-off on the Wrong-Planet. I Hate My Life. The 20th century, and the beginning of the 21st century seems to involve a Corrupted-Version of an Idealistic-Plan, but perhaps it had to be that way. Perhaps Humanity was running out of time in a Genetic and Governance Experiment with an Expiration-Date. I've tentatively imagined that date to be A.D. 2133, but this is mostly guesswork. History is a Nasty-Mess, and the Immediate-Future might be worse. We seem to have been in the Eye of the Storm since World War II. Is it because we're somehow 'Better Now'?? Or are the Real Powers That Be preparing for the Battle of Armageddon at the End of the Millennium (which MIGHT End in A.D. 2133)??!! What Would Al Bielek Say?? What Would Hal Lindsey Write?? What Would Tim LaHaye Say??
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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  mudra on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:50 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you mudra. I often feel like I was the Wrong-Guy to be dropped-off on the Wrong-Planet. I Hate My Life.

    I hear you when you say your hate your life. You probably have all the
    reasons to do so.
    Life is a maze Oxy.
    We lend in it and don't even know what we should be looking for or do.
    At first it is distracting. A hall of mirrors if you will.
    This isn't easy for any of us, not something so obvious not just for you.
    After a while you recognize life is a garden and that all seasons are part of it's fabric.
    You can't force anything to grow but you observe and love and learn patiently
    and by doing so skill settles in, and with that beating loving heart of yours
    your challenge becomes turning the maze into something a-mazing.




    Love from me
    mudra






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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  Carol on Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:01 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you for your lengthy and detailed post, Carol. I've read a lot of your posts throughout the years, which presented similar information, but this most-recent post ties a lot of things together. I noticed that you also made a post on another thread, which seemed to fit in with what you posted on this thread, so I've quoted it below. The video suggests things I'm presently considering, but I still consider all of this stuff to be science-fiction (which might contain some truth). This helps me maintain my distance from what often seems horrific and traumatic. There also seems to be a lot of lying everywhere (not just regarding Aliens and UFO's). What if we live in a Demon-Possessed Solar-System?? I keep thinking about that old-movie 'The Exorcist'. The little-girl was put-through every imaginable test, seemingly to avoid the 'Demon-Possession' can of worms. What if most-all of us are 'Reformed Ancient-Pazuzus'??!! What if the Universe is an extremely tough and bizarre context in which Humanity was genetically-engineered by some of the Smartest and Toughest Galactic-Warriors (with the assistance of Supercomputers)??!! It's a lot simpler to have Traditional-Religion and/or Traditional-Evolution. Almighty-God or No-God might be more desirable than the Genetic-Engineering and Secret-Governance by Ancient-Warriors and/or a Supercomputer-Matrix. We might be facing an Ancient and Ongoing Ideological and Factional Civil-War Between Soul-Relatives. I continue to wish to 'Back-Off' This Present Quest. My mental, physical, and spiritual health continues to deteriorate, and I think it has everything to do with trying to do the right-thing. Bad-Aliens and Nice-People seem to wish to maintain the Status-Quo.

    I Was An Alien Abductee – What I Have To Say Will Shock You[/size][/center]

    I LISTENED TO THIS AND SOME OF IT REMINDED OF OF RAYELAN AT RUMOR MILL NEWS WHO REVEALED THAT SHE WAS SUBJECTED TO MIND-CONTROL WHEN IT CAME TO THE BOOK SHE WROTE. SIMILAR INFO WAS DESCRIBED IN THIS VIDEO WHICH MAKES ME THINK THIS INDIVIDUAL WAS ALSO SUBJECTED TO MIND-CONTROL AND SOME OF WHAT WAS SHARE IS PURE FANTASY, YET BELIEVED BY THE INDIVIDUAL AS REAL.

    SOMETHING HAPPENED.

    WHAT?

    IS THIS PERSON AN ABDUCTEE OR CONTACTEE?

    ABDUCTEE/experiencer/victim - not a contactee.

    FROM WHAT IS DESCRIBED IT WOULD SEEM THIS PERSON WAS SUBJECTED TO A SECRET GOVERNMENT MIND CONTROL PROGRAM THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH FAKE ET EXPERIENCES ALONG WITH SOME REAL EXPERIENCES.

    REAL IN TERMS OF PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL SEQUELIE (AFTER EFFECTS.) WHO CAN SAY WHAT MAY BE FALSE MEMORIES IMPLANTED IN THE INDIVIDUAL. SO IN THIS SENSE ALTHOUGH THIS INDIVIDUAL BELIEVES WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE TIME SPENT WITHIN THIS SITUATION, WHAT IS REMEMBERED CANNOT BE VALIDATED OR TRUSTED TO HAVE ACTUALLY OCCURRED. AFTER ALL, EVEN Rayelan didn't know or realize that she was being deceived until many years later. HOWEVER, I THOUGHT IT INTERESTING TO LISTEN TO AND COMPARE IT AGAINST WHAT I DO KNOW WHAT TO BE TRUE AND WHAT I KNOW IS FAKE.


    "An alien abductee has come forward and publicly revealed the plan extraterrestrials have for humanity in the next few years. After being abducted by aliens for the last 17 years of his life, the anonymous abductee says he wants to share his experience with the public so they can learn the truth about extraterrestrials.

    The terms alien abduction or abduction phenomenon describe “subjectively real memories of being taken secretly against one’s will by apparently nonhuman entities and subjected to complex physical and psychological procedures”. Such abductions have sometimes been classified as close encounters of the fourth kind. People claiming to have been abducted are usually called “abductees” or “experiencers”.

    Due to a lack of objective physical evidence, most scientists and mental health professionals dismiss the phenomenon as “deception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness, hypnotizability, false memory syndrome), personality, sleep paralysis, psychopathology, psychodynamics [and] environmental factors”. Skeptic Robert Sheaffer sees similarity between the aliens depicted in science fiction films, in particular, Invaders From Mars, and some of those reported to have actually abducted people.


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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  Carol on Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:15 pm

    mudra wrote:I am only 7 years younger than Grandpa above .I have a foot in the world as he knew it and another in the one I entered in. I feel like having been  at the turning point between the two. But the pace of change in the last 60 years has been going so fast that I had just entered my own new world and begun to appreciate it when many others ahead kept rushing in. Has it been like that for every generation or is this special to the century we are in ?
    In that epic movie my life is made of my Ariadne's thread has been Consciousness. I feel everything may be stripped away from me in this crazy maze but Consciousness will remain. Now if life around me becomes more easy, more comfortable, more peacefull, more loving on planet Earth of course I won't complain :)
    In truth I feel we landed on a boat that is sailing on a rough sea. As JoeEcho aptly points it this makes the viable path uneasy to perceive.

    Love from me
    mudra

    Exactly mudra. We are moving back into the woods in the midst of nature where it is much more peaceful along with being entertaining watching all the deer and other wild animals travel back and forth across our front window. Consciousness remains, deepens and expands to include the following:

    1. THERE IS NO DESTINATION; THERE IS ONLY NOW
    2. THINKING AND RESISTANCE CREATE SUFFERING
    3. THOUGHTS AND SENSATIONS ARE NOT PERSONAL, AND NOT THE TRUTH
    4. YOU ARE THE SPACE FOR THOUGHTS, NOT THE THINKER OF THEM
    5. BREATHE INTO YOUR DISCOMFORT AND PAIN; HONOUR IT
    6. ACCEPTANCE IS NOT SOMETHING YOU ‘DO’, IT IS WHAT YOU ARE
    7. THERE IS NO ‘ALWAYS’ AND NO ‘NEVER’
    8. YOU CAN ONLY GET ‘THERE’ BY BEING ‘HERE’
    9. EMBRACE YOUR STUMBLING; IT IS PERFECT TOO
    10. STOP COMPARING; YOU ARE LIFE ITSELF!

    This is from '10 of the Most Life-Changing Principles in a Spiritual Awakening' article.

    http://www.oom2.com/t50857-10-of-the-most-life-changing-principles-in-a-spiritual-awakening?utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oom2%2FvXbL+%28Out+Of+Mind%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=feedburner


    Oxy, I'm convinced that God's intention is for us to be happy by enjoying the bounty that is provided in nature. So living in the moment present time is key.

    I can't even begin to tell you how many of our more spiritually enlightened friends have expressed similar sentiments with regard to feeling like they were dropped off on the wrong planet. Yet because they exist here, without having to do anything other then be themselves, they raise the vibrational frequency of our environment to help others spiritually evolve.

    Your books posted here have attracted thousands of hits where others take the time to read what you posted. It would not be surprising if others share similar views as yourself and learn new ways of examining their perspectives from what you present. Your existence has meaning. Your struggles have meaning. You sharing your angst allows others to know that they are not alone when they too self-observe similar thoughts and/or dilemmas. Just by being yourself you help others whether you realize it or not.


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:48 am


    Carol wrote:Once again the diverse and various perspectives you've raised Oxy is a lot to consider. I was thinking earlier this morning about this one abductees youtube video on what the group of ETs this person had interacted with and other abductees along with contactees I've met/personally know and what they had to share about their "diverse" experiences.

    Many years back I had a neighbor who spoke about an abductee she knew where he shared with her how he had been levitated out of bed, down his stairs and out the door. Back then the thought of such a thing actually happening was terrifying. She of course was fascinated and being totally naive, unaware and ignorant of any of this I was in the opposite camp and wished to remain ignorant and unaware. It was years later after becoming a professional psychotherapist that I had a client patient who was an abductee begin to share what happened during the abductions that made me realized that in order to be of help I needed to learn everything that I could about ET abductions, missing time and the subsequent post traumatic stress that resulted. Subsequently I read all the books by other therapists working with folks who were abductees, read the stories and began interacting / doing counseling sessions with numerous others who had these diverse and various experiences.

    Unlike Dr. Jacobs I reached a different conclusion then he did. Most of his client/patients were abductees with similar traumatic stories that he uncovered under hypnosis as most of them were subject to missing time, mind-control, implantation and the loss of their contact experiences.

    These individuals would first be paralyzed, most often at night while in bed, where the short typical biological AIs would abduct them and take them on board ships or elsewhere for experimentation purposes. Most of them had genetic material removed, scoop marks somewhere on their body, sophisticated implantations that monitored their location and whatever else. Generally there was a family history of various others family members involved along with military involvement. Some of the implantations seemed to be man-made and to other implantations were unknown. Keep in mind that the secret government military have been involved in time travel since the 40s which has been confirmed by various credible military whistle blowers including Col. Corso who was a personal friend of another friend of mine and who's transcripts of some of his experiences, I read.

    So we have a group of both civilians and military people who were exploited and used in various experimentations including an ET hybrid program that has lasted for years. Almost all of these individuals had been subjected to mind control where their memories were altered, wiped or an overlay memory was put in place. These individuals suffer from an ongoing sense of fear never knowing when they would be abducted as this went on for years along with suffering the physical abuse that was deeply embedded within their psyche and led to ongoing PTS. Because the abduction was not an isolated event, the PTS was persistent and ongoing. They often suffered from multiple physical and psychological ailments, difficulty with sleeping, sometimes they developed split personalities, had difficulty with close personal relationships along with experiencing a ongoing sense of pervading underlying fear as they never knew when then were going to be abducted. They tended to become hyper-vigelent and some were exceptionally gifted in a variety of fields including art. Some learned how to emotionally split off the traumatized parts of themselves to live very productive lives yet still suffered at a deeper psychological level. Some fell into the category of the Stockholm Syndrome identifying with their abuser in order to emotionally survive their ongoing abuse/trauma. Some were victims of ongoing rape by military within these programs where they could open up portals into the targeted individuals room and take them into their secure areas for further physical/sexual abuse.

    Abductees did not have a choice as to being taken or were consciously aware of what happened to them as a result of having their memory altered. They are classic victims who were prayed upon for experimentation purposes in a long term secret/ET rogue government program.

    Take this particular program to the next level and one can see how over time these individuals were conditioned to accept the mind-control they were subjected to. And then there would those individuals who resisted.. along with those who succumbed and helped their abductors control other victims. AI appears to have been involved from the onset especially when one considers the little biological units used to abduct humans who were being experimented upon.

    Now there are many different off-worlders who are on this planet and visit this planet. All with different agendas. Some view humans as a food stock much like humans view cattle. Some view humans as a species who need help with their evolutions. Some who view earth like a train station where one stops off to gather supplies prior to going off to their next planetary destination. One has to sort out, if at all possible, who or which group they may be interacting with if that is even possible. For most abductees.. not so much.

    Next, let's skip to the contactees. Some who are personal friends other acquaintances. The difference here is that a contactee for the most part is "asked", has a conscious memory of the interaction and also a positive relationship with the off-worlders that they interact with. This relationship is also unique and share similar characteristics around the world (Italy, South America, Australia, etc.). This group of off-worlders are attempting to help humanity as compared to exploit as with the group who interact with the abductees. Many have shared their experiences in books like Mass Contacts by Stefano Breccia. Speaking with him about his experiences was exceptionally enlightening as he shared much about his positive experiences with the group of off-worlders that he interacted with for over 50 years and the negative experiences with the sociopathic clones that they left behind who are very technologically oriented and most likely very involved in the whole AI movement on the planet. They are everywhere in business and government, non-human who pass for human and I've often wondered if they were soulless as well.

    Some of the more recent universal off-worlders interactions wishing to help humanity also warn of upcoming earth changes. Their presence is one of wanting to help humanity through what is coming to pass, whereas the AI group want to take control of humanity and use them like slaves if at all.

    So pretty much all of the different perspectives you like to pull together and explore Oxy may, or may not be possibilities that are playing our in our multi-verse for us to experience. However, I still stick with something Dr. Steven Greer told me when I share with him my singularity "Christ" experience. He said that Christ, Yehsua was a Universal Avatar. That made complete sense to me.

    Everything else Oxy, including Hollyhorrowwood along with AI, are all distractions to keep humanity from the goal of reuniting with our Divine Origin. Just keep in mind when you go off exploring all the possibilities the words, Neti, Neti, Neti. (Not this, Not this, Not this.) Once you have experienced singularity there is no mistaking it for anything fake. Those who have not experienced singularity could and can easily be tricked into accepting a fake experience as real and end up spiritually lost in the nether-world.
    Thank-you for your lengthy and detailed post, Carol. I've read a lot of your posts throughout the years, which presented similar information, but this most-recent post ties a lot of things together. I noticed that you also made a post on another thread, which seemed to fit in with what you posted on this thread, so I've quoted it below. The video suggests things I'm presently considering, but I still consider all of this stuff to be science-fiction (which might contain some truth). This helps me maintain my distance from what often seems horrific and traumatic. There also seems to be a lot of lying everywhere (not just regarding Aliens and UFO's). What if we live in a Demon-Possessed Solar-System?? I keep thinking about that old-movie 'The Exorcist'. The little-girl was put-through every imaginable test, seemingly to avoid the 'Demon-Possession' can of worms. What if most-all of us are 'Reformed Ancient-Pazuzus'??!! What if the Universe is an extremely tough and bizarre context in which Humanity was genetically-engineered by some of the Smartest and Toughest Galactic-Warriors (with the assistance of Supercomputers)??!! It's a lot simpler to have Traditional-Religion and/or Traditional-Evolution. Almighty-God or No-God might be more desirable than the Genetic-Engineering and Secret-Governance by Ancient-Warriors and/or a Supercomputer-Matrix. We might be facing an Ancient and Ongoing Ideological and Factional Civil-War Between Soul-Relatives. I continue to wish to 'Back-Off' This Present Quest. My mental, physical, and spiritual health continues to deteriorate, and I think it has everything to do with trying to do the right-thing. Bad-Aliens and Nice-People seem to wish to maintain the Status-Quo.
    Carol wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3206&v=clRbKFFpsUY
    I Was An Alien Abductee – What I Have To Say Will Shock You

    "An alien abductee has come forward and publicly revealed the plan extraterrestrials have for humanity in the next few years. After being abducted by aliens for the last 17 years of his life, the anonymous abductee says he wants to share his experience with the public so they can learn the truth about extraterrestrials.

    The terms alien abduction or abduction phenomenon describe “subjectively real memories of being taken secretly against one’s will by apparently nonhuman entities and subjected to complex physical and psychological procedures”. Such abductions have sometimes been classified as close encounters of the fourth kind. People claiming to have been abducted are usually called “abductees” or “experiencers”.

    Due to a lack of objective physical evidence, most scientists and mental health professionals dismiss the phenomenon as “deception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness, hypnotizability, false memory syndrome), personality, sleep paralysis, psychopathology, psychodynamics [and] environmental factors”. Skeptic Robert Sheaffer sees similarity between the aliens depicted in science fiction films, in particular, Invaders From Mars, and some of those reported to have actually abducted people.

    Typical claims involve being subjected to forced medical examinations that emphasize abductee reproductive systems. Abductees sometimes claim to have been warned against environmental abuse and the dangers of nuclear weapons. While many of these claimed encounters are described as terrifying, some have been viewed as pleasurable or transformative. via Wikipedia"
    mudra wrote:I am only 7 years younger than Grandpa above .I have a foot in the world as he knew it and another in the one I entered in. I feel like having been  at the turning point between the two. But the pace of change in the last 60 years has been going so fast that I had just entered my own new world and begun to appreciate it when many others ahead kept rushing in. Has it been like that for every generation or is this special to the century we are in ? In that epic movie my life is made of my Ariadne's thread has been Consciousness. I feel everything may be stripped away from me in this crazy maze but Consciousness will remain. Now if life around me becomes more easy, more comfortable, more peacefull, more loving on planet Earth of course I won't complain :) In truth I feel we landed on a boat that is sailing on a rough sea. As JoeEcho aptly points it this makes the viable path uneasy to perceive.

    Love from me
    mudra
    Thank-you mudra. I often feel like I was the Wrong-Guy to be dropped-off on the Wrong-Planet. I Hate My Life. The 20th century, and the beginning of the 21st century seems to involve a Corrupted-Version of an Idealistic-Plan, but perhaps it had to be that way. Perhaps Humanity was running out of time in a Genetic and Governance Experiment with an Expiration-Date. I've tentatively imagined that date to be A.D. 2133, but this is mostly guesswork. History is a Nasty-Mess, and the Immediate-Future might be worse. We seem to have been in the Eye of the Storm since World War II. Is it because we're somehow 'Better Now'?? Or are the Real Powers That Be preparing for the Battle of Armageddon at the End of the Millennium (which MIGHT End in A.D. 2133)??!! What Would Al Bielek Say?? What Would Hal Lindsey Write?? What Would Tim LaHaye Say?? I still might write a book someday (mostly because I need the money) but whatever I'd write would probably be mostly-wrong (so I really don't want to do it). I might just study the Wisdom-Books, the Major-Prophets, and the Genuine Pauline-Epistles, as if they were the Whole-Bible (just to see what that particular study ultimately reveals). But honestly, I feel really-horrible all the time (and it's getting worse). I've had numerous tests, and I've even had major-surgery, but none of this seems to have helped. I suspect there's something wrong with me which no-one wishes to deal-with. I think it might have a lot to do with who I might be on a soul-basis, and what might've been done to me because of who I might really be. The truth will ultimately emerge, but I don't think I'll still be here when it does. It might be easier that way. On the other hand, taking the 'easy-way' is often NOT the 'easy-way'.



    Carol wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUtSyzzAaY4
    Day 29.3. The Robyn Gritz Files


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZjqH4cP-cw
    CONFIRMED: Marines Land At Langley To Stop Coup
    - Hillary Worried Over Indictments

    Marines have landed at Langley to assist President Trump in securing Washington DC while threats of a coup still loom. Hillary Clinton shows she's worried about the current investigations and the indictments which have been issued in the last week, now reaching over 1800. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%23TheStorm
    Carol wrote:


    Simon Parkes Update - November 16, 2017

    Trump Tweets Of Operation Alice In Wonderland Thursday,

    November 16, 2017

    President Trump tweets: 'The time is upon us; operation Alice in Wonderland is about to start'

    Clearly the president wishes to alert the people to some subterfuge about to take place. The tweet was swiftly removed around 15 minutes later. https://www.simonparkes.org/single-post/2017/11/16/Trump-Tweets-Of-Operation-Alice-In-Wonderland
    Carol wrote:
    Who is Q… and other relevant information. Since Thomas used to be an NSA guy, he shares some very interesting background as far as security clearances in the NSA and their code. If pressed for time, check in around the 10 minute mark. Thomas also gives his best guess as to who Q is. It’s a White Hat, obviously. These are fascinating times and the new soldiers are using the available technologies to help win the war. Thomas goes on to discuss Saudi Arabia, the Federal Reserve, the US Treasury, and the big financial picture. Trump is doing a good job of fixing much of what is wrong in America but I’m still not convinced that the Trump administration is the group we want to remain in Washington after all this is over. We’ll see what transpires. Yes, the cabal is being removed, and we reserve the right to revamp the “government” and choose our leaders who will best serve Humanity long term. Nothing is a given. Trust and respect must be earned and we will not be sufficiently wowed to the point we lose sight of where Humanity is ultimately going. In the mean time, we’re having some fun watching this process.  ~ BP

    mudra wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you mudra. I often feel like I was the Wrong-Guy to be dropped-off on the Wrong-Planet. I Hate My Life.
    I hear you when you say your hate your life. You probably have all the reasons to do so. Life is a maze Oxy. We lend in it and don't even know what we should be looking for or do. At first it is distracting. A hall of mirrors if you will. This isn't easy for any of us, not something so obvious not just for you. After a while you recognize life is a garden and that all seasons are part of it's fabric. You can't force anything to grow but you observe and love and learn patiently and by doing so skill settles in, and with that beating loving heart of yours your challenge becomes turning the maze into something a-mazing.


    Love from me
    mudra
    Carol wrote:
    I Was An Alien Abductee – What I Have To Say Will Shock You

    I LISTENED TO THIS AND SOME OF IT REMINDED OF OF RAYELAN AT RUMOR MILL NEWS WHO REVEALED THAT SHE WAS SUBJECTED TO MIND-CONTROL WHEN IT CAME TO THE BOOK SHE WROTE. SIMILAR INFO WAS DESCRIBED IN THIS VIDEO WHICH MAKES ME THINK THIS INDIVIDUAL WAS ALSO SUBJECTED TO MIND-CONTROL AND SOME OF WHAT WAS SHARE IS PURE FANTASY, YET BELIEVED BY THE INDIVIDUAL AS REAL.

    SOMETHING HAPPENED. WHAT? IS THIS PERSON AN ABDUCTEE OR CONTACTEE? ABDUCTEE/experiencer/victim - not a contactee.

    FROM WHAT IS DESCRIBED IT WOULD SEEM THIS PERSON WAS SUBJECTED TO A SECRET GOVERNMENT MIND CONTROL PROGRAM THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH FAKE ET EXPERIENCES ALONG WITH SOME REAL EXPERIENCES.

    REAL IN TERMS OF PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL SEQUELIE (AFTER EFFECTS.) WHO CAN SAY WHAT MAY BE FALSE MEMORIES IMPLANTED IN THE INDIVIDUAL. SO IN THIS SENSE ALTHOUGH THIS INDIVIDUAL BELIEVES WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE TIME SPENT WITHIN THIS SITUATION, WHAT IS REMEMBERED CANNOT BE VALIDATED OR TRUSTED TO HAVE ACTUALLY OCCURRED. AFTER ALL, EVEN Rayelan didn't know or realize that she was being deceived until many years later. HOWEVER, I THOUGHT IT INTERESTING TO LISTEN TO AND COMPARE IT AGAINST WHAT I DO KNOW WHAT TO BE TRUE AND WHAT I KNOW IS FAKE.


    "An alien abductee has come forward and publicly revealed the plan extraterrestrials have for humanity in the next few years. After being abducted by aliens for the last 17 years of his life, the anonymous abductee says he wants to share his experience with the public so they can learn the truth about extraterrestrials.

    The terms alien abduction or abduction phenomenon describe “subjectively real memories of being taken secretly against one’s will by apparently nonhuman entities and subjected to complex physical and psychological procedures”. Such abductions have sometimes been classified as close encounters of the fourth kind. People claiming to have been abducted are usually called “abductees” or “experiencers”.

    Due to a lack of objective physical evidence, most scientists and mental health professionals dismiss the phenomenon as “deception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness, hypnotizability, false memory syndrome), personality, sleep paralysis, psychopathology, psychodynamics [and] environmental factors”. Skeptic Robert Sheaffer sees similarity between the aliens depicted in science fiction films, in particular, Invaders From Mars, and some of those reported to have actually abducted people.
    Thank-you mudra and Carol. Nature and Research are a couple of foundational-pillars of Renewal and Enlightenment. What concerns me is how many ways things can be set-up and interpreted. One could create a church or state platform, and then wear blinders in the promotion and enforcement of their creation. Once one submits to a religious or political system (especially if they are employed by it) it is a Tie That Binds (as noose). If a Real-God with a Perfect-Law is Righteous and Powerful, it's difficult to imagine Religious and Political Pluralism, especially if this God makes an appearance once in a while, and posts regular messages on the InterPlaNet. But we have confusion to the nth degree in this solar system. Why?? Is the Matrix legitimate?? Are we being roughed-up for reasonable reasons?? Or are we just being screwed by the Reptilians and Greys (who seem to hate us)?? I frankly don't have a problem with the idea of dealing with strange-looking beings (as long as they don't take advantage of us, possess us, torture us, enslave us, kill us, and eat us). Anyway, I'm rambling. It's late, and I'm tired.

    The way things really are could be very different than  we think they are. Science-Fictional Possibility-Thinking is probably an excellent place to begin getting it right, but this takes too much time, and is too disorienting for most of us. I've created a monster within this website, and I don't know what to do with it, other than study it on my own, because it really doesn't have significant-meaning to anyone else. Perhaps the Matrix is set-up to destroy Uppity-Researchers Who Know Too-Much. Perhaps Ignorance is Virtue to Matrix-Protocols. But this world seems to be a Big-Business with little regard for Ethics and Virtue. The Bottom-Line seems to be the Bottom-Line. Uppity-Researchers Who Know Too-Much might be a grave-threat to the Bottom-Line and the Powers That Be, which is why the Matrix might have to crack-down on them. The Road to Utopia in This Present Solar System seems to involve joining the Club of the Top One-Percent of the Top One-Percent as the CEO of a Technology-Company Which Serves As a Front for Stolen-Technology Provided by the Matrix-Supercomputer!! Did I Miss Something?? I Remember!! I Forgot to Take My Medicine!! I think I royally screwed-up my stupid-life, and I'm quite-frightened!! What are they going to do to me?? I might not have to wait long to find out!! The Horror!!

    I don't think I've ever mentioned this, but quite a few years ago, I noticed a compressed area of grass in my backyard, which was probably six-feet in diameter. I had no explanation for it, but later, when I became more interested in Aliens and UFO's, I wondered if something landed there??!! Probably NOT, but I still wonder as I wander in and out of sanity and insanity!! I wish to emphasize that I am NOT a serious-researcher!! I'm simply morbidly-curious!! I'm also hopelessly deluded and confused!! I desire a refined-idealism which I suspect I'll never achieve in This Present Quest. My dissatisfaction with life drove me to seek Julius Reubke's monumental Sonata on the 94th Psalm, hopefully played on the organ at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, but no such luck!! Instead, I stumbled upon a long-lost 1973 recording of Michael Murray playing the (G. Donald Harrison) Aeolian-Skinner organ at Grace Episcopal Cathedral in San Francisco!! And low and behold, he was playing the Reubke Sonata on the 94th Psalm!! The recording quality isn't up to modern standards, but it's not bad!! Michael Murray is one of my favorite organists, and Grace Cathedral is one of my favorite churches!! What Would Richard Purvis Say?? I met both Michael Murray and Richard Purvis. I've met a lot of famous and accomplished people, but I can barely tie my name, and remember my shoes!! We all have our crosses to bear!! I'd love to be able to play that Sonata at St. John the Divine, utilizing the En Chamade Trompettes in the final moments of that towering-classic!! Some of you might know what I'm referring to!!



    avatar
    orthodoxymoron

    Posts : 7810
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The Mists of Avalon, A.D. 2133

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 pm








    I think I might be irreversibly-lost in more ways than I can imagine, and I don't know how this happened. Everyone has a different version of the problems and the solutions. Let me simply suggest (and even plead) that some of us read the following three groups of Scripture (side by side, straight-through, over and over): 1. Job through Isaiah. 2. Jeremiah through Daniel. 3. Luke through Jude. Compare this study with reading the following three groups of Scripture (side by side, straight-through, over and over): 1. Genesis through Esther. 2. Job through Malachi. 3. Matthew through Revelation. What Would Emilio Knechtle Say?? What Would Billy Graham Say?? What Would Jesus Christ Say?? What Would the Apostle Paul Say?? What Would the Jesus Seminar Say?? What Would Desmond Ford Say?? What Would Fulton Sheen Say?? What Would John Dominic Crossan Say?? What Would Richard Carrier Say?? What Would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer Say?? What Would Our Father Who Art in Heaven Say?? What Would the Beast Supercomputer Say?? What Would David Bowman Say?? What Would Peter Venkman Say?? What Would the Masons Say?? What Would the Nazis Say?? What Would the Jesuits Say?? What Would Donald Trump Say?? What Would Vladimir Putin Say??

    I recently encountered a Sweet and Sexy Russian-Lady Wearing a Crucifix-Necklace, and I wondered who she might be, and what she might be all about?! Who is REALLY Right?? Who is REALLY Wrong?? I think I might be irreversibly and simultaneously right and wrong in more ways than I can imagine, and I don't know how this happened. Everyone has a different version of right and wrong, problems and solutions. Is '42' really the answer to life, the universe, and everything?? This post makes me VERY SAD. Honesty Does NOT Necessarily Promote Spirituality. What is the Relationship Between Faith and Honesty?? Are They Complementary or Contradictory?? Should One Simply Have Simple Faith In What the Church-Leaders Preach?? Is Theological-Research of the Devil?? Think Long and Hard About What I Just Said. No one usually responds to my posts on various threads, but I've gotten used to that, and I'm OK with talking to myself (online and in real-life)!! It's easier that way!!

    As an alternative to reading the Bible straight-through, over and over OR reading Proof-Passages (here a little, there a little), consider reading Job through Daniel side by side with Luke through Jude -- straight-through, over and over. This reflects my biases regarding theological and devotional importance, which might be flawed, yet I still think this approach is somewhat legitimate, especially if each group is used to interpret itself, rather than being interpreted or vetoed by 'outsiders'!! I'm not sure the Bible really teaches what the teachers and preachers teach and preach!! The Bible can be made to say just about anything!! Each church picks and chooses certain passages to make their case for a doctrinal-statement, which then becomes the gold-standard for their particular organization. This is probably organizationally-expedient, yet the real-truth probably gets crucified in the process. A proper commentary covering the two groups mentioned would be necessary to provide a proper context, yet most commentaries use other portions of scripture to interpret and apply the content of each group.

    Each church has a 'System'. I keep wondering why the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of ALL Christian Churches aren't the 28 Fundamental Teachings of Jesus?? I include the following because of my background -- and because it is representative of Reformed Protestant Beliefs (although many Protestants might protest this assertion). This is intended to make us think. But really, most believers don't wish to have anyone meddle with their faith -- and most unbelievers don't wish to discuss beliefs. Period. Where are the objective, open, fair, and honest researchers?????? Notice Belief 16 ('The Lord's Supper') where there seems to be 'Real-Presence' language!! 'Heirs of the Reformation'?? Really?? What Would Luther Say?? I have repeatedly hinted that ALL Churches have-been (and are) run by the same Hidden-PTB ('The Spirit Behind the Church'??) -- and that each church is sort of like a 'Franchise' under 'Umbrella-Ownership'!! If so -- perhaps things must be this way -- so as to effectively manage the insanity of humanity. Who Knows?? Damned If I Know. That's Why I Whisper, Rather Than Shout...

    Are the Teachings of Jesus exclusively the Red-Letters found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Genuine Pauline-Epistles?? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Red-Letters (including the first chapters of Revelation) plus the Genuine Pauline-Epistles?? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Entire New-Testament?? I've suggested the possibility that reading Job through Daniel (straight-through, over and over) might be necessary to properly understand the Whole-Bible. There's no book of the Bible titled 'The 28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists'. Where are the 'Latin Mass' and the 'Novus Ordo Mass' found in the Whole-Bible?? Why didn't the Historical Jesus write the New Testament?? Why isn't the New Testament a Positively-Reinforcing Old-Testament Commentary?? What Was the Perfect Law of the Lord prior to the Garden of Eden and the Book of Genesis?? I've suggested the possibility that Science-Fictional Possibility-Thinking must mate with Scholarly-Theology, especially regarding the Origin and Possible-Termination of Humanity As We Know It. This is Nasty-Territory. Researchers Beware!!


    28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists
    http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

    Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.

    1. Holy Scriptures:

    The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)

    2. Trinity:

    There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)


    3. Father:

    God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)

    4. Son:

    God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

    5. Holy Spirit:

    God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

    6. Creation:

    God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made "the heaven and the earth" and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of His completed creative work. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was ``very good,'' declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1; 2; Ex. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Heb. 11:3.)

    7. Nature of Man:

    Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)

    8. Great Controversy:

    All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

    9. Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ:

    In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God's triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)

    10. Experience of Salvation:

    In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

    11. Growing in Christ:

    By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus' victory gives us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience. (Ps 1:1, 2; 23:4; 77:11, 12; Col 1:13, 14; 2:6, 14, 15; Luke 10:17-20; Eph 5:19, 20; 6:12-18; 1 Thess 5:23; 2 Peter 2:9; 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:17, 18; Phil 3:7-14; 1 Thess 5:16-18; Matt 20:25-28; John 20:21; Gal 5:22-25; Rom 8:38, 39; 1 John 4:4; Heb 10:25.)

    12. Church:

    The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord's Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God's family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish. (Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

    13. Remnant and Its Mission:

    The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

    14. Unity in the Body of Christ:

    The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

    15. Baptism:

    By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)

    16. Lord's Supper:

    The Lord's Supper is a participation in the emblems of the body and blood of Jesus as an expression of faith in Him, our Lord and Saviour. In this experience of communion Christ is present to meet and strengthen His people. As we partake, we joyfully proclaim the Lord's death until He comes again. Preparation for the Supper includes self-examination, repentance, and confession. The Master ordained the service of foot washing to signify renewed cleansing, to express a willingness to serve one another in Christlike humility, and to unite our hearts in love. The communion service is open to all believing Christians. (1 Cor. 10:16, 17; 11:23-30; Matt. 26:17-30; Rev. 3:20; John 6:48-63; 13:1-17.)

    17. Spiritual Gifts and Ministries:

    God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. Given by the agency of the Holy Spirit, who apportions to each member as He wills, the gifts provide all abilities and ministries needed by the church to fulfill its divinely ordained functions. According to the Scriptures, these gifts include such ministries as faith, healing, prophecy, proclamation, teaching, administration, reconciliation, compassion, and self-sacrificing service and charity for the help and encouragement of people. Some members are called of God and endowed by the Spirit for functions recognized by the church in pastoral, evangelistic, apostolic, and teaching ministries particularly needed to equip the members for service, to build up the church to spiritual maturity, and to foster unity of the faith and knowledge of God. When members employ these spiritual gifts as faithful stewards of God's varied grace, the church is protected from the destructive influence of false doctrine, grows with a growth that is from God, and is built up in faith and love. (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:9-11, 27, 28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16; Acts 6:1-7; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; 1 Peter 4:10, 11.)

    18. The Gift of Prophecy:

    One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

    19. Law of God:

    The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

    20. Sabbath:

    The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

    21. Stewardship:

    We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

    22. Christian Behavior:

    We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

    23. Marriage and the Family:

    Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between partners who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, marriage partners who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving disciplinarian, ever tender and caring, who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. (Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 19:3-9; John 2:1-11; 2 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 5:21-33; Matt. 5:31, 32; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11; Ex. 20:12; Eph. 6:1-4; Deut. 6:5-9; Prov. 22:6; Mal. 4:5, 6.)

    24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:

    There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

    25. Second Coming of Christ:

    The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ's coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)

    26. Death and Resurrection:

    The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

    27. Millennium and the End of Sin:

    The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)

    28. New Earth:

    On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1-7; 22:1-5; 11:15.) Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.







    This SDA Church is on Hollywood Boulevard (at the Hollywood Freeway)!!
    I Grew Up Attending This Church!! We Called it "Noah's Ark"!!

    I grew-up attending this church, and I sang in the choir when we had a professional-level organist, pianist, choir-director, and soloists. We mostly performed Sacred Classical Music. Once, we participated in the wedding of a high-born non-SDA African couple, and attended the reception, which was really quite-wild by SDA standards (at that time)!! They had booze, a rock-group, and dancing rich-people!! Below is a short-video of this church a couple of years ago. Notice the people coming-forward to take communion. This is NOT Traditional SDA practice!! This is more Anglican or Catholic!! There's another video with the congregation singing 'Kyrie Eleison'!! We were much more classical-music oriented than the music in the video below!! Once, during communion, a visitor got-up and walked-out, shouting "You're Just a Bunch of Catholics!!" And that's when we did NOT come forward for communion!! Imagine what that guy would say today!! Another time, a lady got mad at the church, and was shouting "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell??!!" One of the most significant services was the hosting of the guest-speaker Emilio Knechtle. I sang in the choir. The church was packed. PLEASE Listen to the Emilio Knechtle videos below!! He's a VERY Dynamic and Forceful Speaker!! I Find His Presentations Irresistible!! I met him after one of his sermons.

    As an Early-Teen, in the basement of this church, an Individual of Interest (who I never saw before or after) told me "Gee, You're Gullible!!" I told 'RA' about this, and he smirked. C. Lloyd Wyman was the pastor when the church was built, and I went to school with his son, Scott. Jack LaLanne's mother attended this church, and she knew the answers to all the questions in Sabbath-School!! Jack didn't attend, but he dropped-off and picked-up his mother. As a teen-ager, a group of us from the church (including the pastor, Thomas Stafford) picketed a Hollywood Pornography Establishment!! We Were Shown on the Evening Television-News in Los Angeles!! When I was a very-young child, while sitting with my mother in this church, a couple of elderly-ladies thought I was cute, and they were smiling at me, and talking to me, but I thought they were making fun of me, and I said "Shut-Up!!" My mother was horrified, and marched me out of the sanctuary, and gave me a paddling (when that sort of thing was NOT forbidden by the 'do-gooders')!! I had to apologize to the ladies following the service!! What Would Dr. Spock Say?? We drove our 1959 'Ghostbuster' Cadillac (with CBS plates) to this church each Sabbath (when I was a young child). What Would Dr. Peter Venkman Say?? Later, I sometimes drove our Blue AMC Pacer to this church (around the same time 'Oh, God' was being produced, a few miles away)!! What Would John Denver and George Burns Say?? What Would a Completely Ignorant Fool Say?? That's All I'm Going to Say!!

    Here's an article about a former pastor of the Hollywood SDA Church who became an atheist. I'm not the only renegade former member!! We should start a support-group!! https://spectrummagazine.org/article/2015/01/04/end-his-year-without-god-ryan-bell-speaks-out I don't think a lot of atheists are really atheists. I think most of them are simply disillusioned by the realities of life as we know it. There was a lot of fighting at this church when I was there, and from what I've heard, it only got worse after I moved. The fighting I experienced was mostly theological (surprise, surprise), but people also got in each others way. We all have our agendas, don't we?? What Would Patrick Lobo Say?? What Would Paul Hart Do?? What Would Charles and Marian Haluska Say and Do?? As some of you know, my current SDA idealism seems to revolve around the 'Conflict of the Ages Series' (by Ellen White) and the 'SDA Bible Commentary' combined with Science-Fiction and Sacred Classical Music in the Context of Nature. This might-not involve church-membership (or even non-committal church-attendance). People who have left the SDA church for greener-pastures quickly found-out that the pastures weren't as green as they thought they were going to be. Life on Earth is Hazardous-Duty, and most of us get our fingers burned (right up to our armpits) at some point. I have high-hopes for Church-Related Education and Employment, but Church On Earth (as fortress against the world) might be on its way out. Church In Heaven might be a completely different story. I think we all have fleeting memories of what that was like (back in the good-old days) but creating Heaven On Earth seems to be an Impossible Dream (for now). Namaste and Godspeed.



    Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the LORD. Blessed are those who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart. They do no wrong but follow his ways. You have laid down precepts that are to be fully obeyed. Oh, that my ways were steadfast in obeying your decrees! Then I would not be put to shame when I consider all your commands. I will praise you with an upright heart as I learn your righteous laws. I will obey your decrees; do not utterly forsake me. How can a young person stay on the path of purity? By living according to your word. I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands. I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. Praise be to you, LORD; teach me your decrees. With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth. I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches. I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways. I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word. Be good to your servant while I live, that I may obey your word. Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law. I am a stranger on earth; do not hide your commands from me. My soul is consumed with longing for your laws at all times. You rebuke the arrogant, who are accursed, those who stray from your commands. Remove from me their scorn and contempt, for I keep your statutes. Though rulers sit together and slander me, your servant will meditate on your decrees. Your statutes are my delight; they are my counselors. I am laid low in the dust; preserve my life according to your word. I gave an account of my ways and you answered me; teach me your decrees. Cause me to understand the way of your precepts, that I may meditate on your wonderful deeds. My soul is weary with sorrow; strengthen me according to your word. Keep me from deceitful ways; be gracious to me and teach me your law. I have chosen the way of faithfulness; I have set my heart on your laws. I hold fast to your statutes, LORD; do not let me be put to shame. I run in the path of your commands, for you have broadened my understanding. Teach me, LORD, the way of your decrees, that I may follow it to the end. Give me understanding, so that I may keep your law and obey it with all my heart. Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight. Turn my heart toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word. Fulfill your promise to your servant, so that you may be feared.

    Take away the disgrace I dread, for your laws are good. How I long for your precepts! In your righteousness preserve my life. May your unfailing love come to me, LORD, your salvation, according to your promise; then I can answer anyone who taunts me, for I trust in your word. Never take your word of truth from my mouth, for I have put my hope in your laws. I will always obey your law, for ever and ever. I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts. I will speak of your statutes before kings and will not be put to shame, for I delight in your commands because I love them. I reach out for your commands, which I love, that I may meditate on your decrees. Remember your word to your servant, for you have given me hope. My comfort in my suffering is this: Your promise preserves my life. The arrogant mock me unmercifully, but I do not turn from your law. I remember, LORD, your ancient laws, and I find comfort in them. Indignation grips me because of the wicked, who have forsaken your law. Your decrees are the theme of my song wherever I lodge. In the night, LORD, I remember your name, that I may keep your law. This has been my practice: I obey your precepts. You are my portion, LORD; I have promised to obey your words. I have sought your face with all my heart; be gracious to me according to your promise. I have considered my ways and have turned my steps to your statutes. I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands. Though the wicked bind me with ropes, I will not forget your law. At midnight I rise to give you thanks for your righteous laws. I am a friend to all who fear you, to all who follow your precepts. The earth is filled with your love, LORD; teach me your decrees. Do good to your servant according to your word, LORD. Teach me knowledge and good judgment, for I trust your commands. Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word. You are good, and what you do is good; teach me your decrees. Though the arrogant have smeared me with lies, I keep your precepts with all my heart. Their hearts are callous and unfeeling, but I delight in your law. It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees. The law from your mouth is more precious to me than thousands of pieces of silver and gold. Your hands made me and formed me; give me understanding to learn your commands. May those who fear you rejoice when they see me, for I have put my hope in your word. I know, LORD, that your laws are righteous, and that in faithfulness you have afflicted me.

    May your unfailing love be my comfort, according to your promise to your servant. Let your compassion come to me that I may live, for your law is my delight. May the arrogant be put to shame for wronging me without cause; but I will meditate on your precepts. May those who fear you turn to me, those who understand your statutes. May I wholeheartedly follow your decrees, that I may not be put to shame. My soul faints with longing for your salvation, but I have put my hope in your word. My eyes fail, looking for your promise; I say, “When will you comfort me?” Though I am like a wineskin in the smoke, I do not forget your decrees. How long must your servant wait? When will you punish my persecutors? The arrogant dig pits to trap me, contrary to your law. All your commands are trustworthy; help me, for I am being persecuted without cause. They almost wiped me from the earth, but I have not forsaken your precepts. In your unfailing love preserve my life, that I may obey the statutes of your mouth. Your word, LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens. Your faithfulness continues through all generations; you established the earth, and it endures. Your laws endure to this day, for all things serve you. If your law had not been my delight, I would have perished in my affliction. I will never forget your precepts, for by them you have preserved my life. Save me, for I am yours; I have sought out your precepts. The wicked are waiting to destroy me, but I will ponder your statutes. To all perfection I see a limit, but your commands are boundless. Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long. Your commands are always with me and make me wiser than my enemies. I have more insight than all my teachers, for I meditate on your statutes. I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts. I have kept my feet from every evil path so that I might obey your word. I have not departed from your laws, for you yourself have taught me. How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth! I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path. Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. I have taken an oath and confirmed it, that I will follow your righteous laws. I have suffered much; preserve my life, LORD, according to your word. Accept, LORD, the willing praise of my mouth, and teach me your laws. Though I constantly take my life in my hands, I will not forget your law. The wicked have set a snare for me, but I have not strayed from your precepts. Your statutes are my heritage forever; they are the joy of my heart. My heart is set on keeping your decrees to the very end.

    I hate double-minded people, but I love your law. You are my refuge and my shield; I have put my hope in your word. Away from me, you evildoers, that I may keep the commands of my God! Sustain me, my God, according to your promise, and I will live; do not let my hopes be dashed. Uphold me, and I will be delivered; I will always have regard for your decrees. You reject all who stray from your decrees, for their delusions come to nothing. All the wicked of the earth you discard like dross; therefore I love your statutes. My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws. I have done what is righteous and just; do not leave me to my oppressors. Ensure your servant’s well-being; do not let the arrogant oppress me. My eyes fail, looking for your salvation, looking for your righteous promise. Deal with your servant according to your love and teach me your decrees. I am your servant; give me discernment that I may understand your statutes. It is time for you to act, LORD; your law is being broken. Because I love your commands more than gold, more than pure gold, and because I consider all your precepts right, I hate every wrong path. Your statutes are wonderful; therefore I obey them. The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple. I open my mouth and pant, longing for your commands. Turn to me and have mercy on me, as you always do to those who love your name. Direct my footsteps according to your word; let no sin rule over me. Redeem me from human oppression, that I may obey your precepts. Make your face shine on your servant and teach me your decrees. Streams of tears flow from my eyes, for your law is not obeyed. You are righteous, LORD, and your laws are right. The statutes you have laid down are righteous; they are fully trustworthy. My zeal wears me out, for my enemies ignore your words. Your promises have been thoroughly tested, and your servant loves them. Though I am lowly and despised, I do not forget your precepts. Your righteousness is everlasting and your law is true. Trouble and distress have come upon me, but your commands give me delight. Your statutes are always righteous; give me understanding that I may live. I call with all my heart; answer me, LORD, and I will obey your decrees. I call out to you; save me and I will keep your statutes. I rise before dawn and cry for help; I have put my hope in your word. My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your promises. Hear my voice in accordance with your love; preserve my life, LORD, according to your laws.

    Those who devise wicked schemes are near, but they are far from your law. Yet you are near, LORD, and all your commands are true. Long ago I learned from your statutes that you established them to last forever. Look on my suffering and deliver me, for I have not forgotten your law. Defend my cause and redeem me; preserve my life according to your promise. Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees. Your compassion, LORD, is great; preserve my life according to your laws. Many are the foes who persecute me, but I have not turned from your statutes. I look on the faithless with loathing, for they do not obey your word. See how I love your precepts; preserve my life, LORD, in accordance with your love. All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Rulers persecute me without cause, but my heart trembles at your word. I rejoice in your promise like one who finds great spoil. I hate and detest falsehood but I love your law. Seven times a day I praise you for your righteous laws. Great peace have those who love your law, and nothing can make them stumble. I wait for your salvation, LORD, and I follow your commands. I obey your statutes, for I love them greatly. I obey your precepts and your statutes, for all my ways are known to you. May my cry come before you, LORD; give me understanding according to your word. May my supplication come before you; deliver me according to your promise. May my lips overflow with praise, for you teach me your decrees. May my tongue sing of your word, for all your commands are righteous. May your hand be ready to help me, for I have chosen your precepts. I long for your salvation, LORD, and your law gives me delight. Let me live that I may praise you, and may your laws sustain me. I have strayed like a lost sheep. Seek your servant, for I have not forgotten your commands.  


    "The Seventh-Day is the Sabbath!!"



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      Current date/time is Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 am