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    “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

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    JoeEcho

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    “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:14 am

    Be the flame, not the moth





    First off, I am interested in other peoples interpretation of the above quote. It's an intriguing quote don't you think?

    One of my first interpretations was one of, Be interesting, a true individual, not just one with the mundane. And by an extension of thought leads me to Carpe Diem (seize the day).








    And here is another correlation to the “Be the flame, not the moth”, and that is, "To Be or Not to Be". In this case, Casanova answers the question.




    Last edited by JoeEcho on Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Center title of post)
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Carol on Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:23 pm

    What an intriguing start for a thread. Love it.

    As the flame one is anchored in the light providing a steady presence. Years back at the onset of learning meditation we were taught to focus on a candle flame and trained to hold that image in our minds eye. Doing this over the years allows one to stop the mind's monkey chatter and eventually led to a deeps sense of inner peace.

    Perhaps the moth is representative of the monkey mind where one is distracted by what comes on go that can lead one into danger. I think of the moth as free to experience life in all of it's vastness flitting from one experience to the next whereas the flame is centered in it's own ongoing creative presence. As one goes inward one ignites that which is awlays present yet perhaps not yet manifested. Are we not both, the moth and the flame during the span of our lifetime? Enlightened



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    mudra

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  mudra on Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:43 pm

    If you consider the Light to be outside of yourself it's a dead end.
    Be a Light of your own.
    Shine and you won't be drawn onto glitter.

    The Karen

    Love from me
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:37 pm

    JoeEcho wrote:
    Be the flame, not the moth




    Cool thread, Joe!  Double Thumbs Up



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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Carol on Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:22 pm



    Cute

    Monkey mind. Ever go to bed at night and you can't shut your thoughts down? That's monkey mind. Every try to meditate and still your monkey mind? This is why a mantra is effective as it gives the monkey mind something to do while you get down to business raising your vibrational frequency as thoughts are stilled and one enters into an awareness of inner stillness, inner peace. One goal of meditation is to learn how to control the monkey mind by stilling it for the purpose of experiencing ones true spiritual beingness.

    Yet, Monkey mind is also how one can entertain oneself, or it can become obsessive way of processing thoughts driven my emotions. Since stress tends to be the number one underlying cause of illness, learning how to still the mind can be a worthwhile effort for one's health.


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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:54 pm

    ...


    Last edited by Pris on Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:38 pm

    Another one for potential edification:

    Remember Icarus? Son of Daedalus who dared to fly too near the sun on wings of feathers and wax.

    In this case I see the flame (sun) representing purity. The moth the mundane, the everyday existence and because it's everyday there is no other (day).

    What if the moth was flying along having the best day a moth could ever have but then was confronted with the brilliance of the flame/sun? Could it ever look at the best day ever in the everyday world the same way again?

    It matters not that one is having their best or worse day ever for the flame puts them both within the realm of the mundane.




    (A rat can rat out the rat nation from top to bottom but that shouldn't give it any more special attention, after all, it's still a rat)

    To write any of this I had to be the moth, are you the flame or are we each others wingman/ woman?

    The flame is. To 'be' the flame changes things and in so doing no different then the moth.
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:50 pm

    Pris wrote:


    I EAR you, Pris. I really EAR you!

    Is this why I have trouble retaining information.....

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:38 pm

    .
    .

    lol!

    You also have an interesting take on this moth/flame thing, Joe.  Yes... the feathers and the wax story had flittered through my mind also...

    At the end of the day, it's your story.  It's whatever YOU want it to mean (or not mean).

    It's the old energy flows where attention goes...




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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:34 pm

    Pris wrote:At the end of the day...

    At the end of the day? Don't you know that the day never ends?



    "Have I been blind, have I been lost Inside myself and my own mind Hypnotized, mesmerized by what my eyes have seen?"



    Could it be that day-in-day-out is the misconception that we are getting or going somewhere?

    Coming at you sideways,

    Joe


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    mudra

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  mudra on Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:13 am

    Pris wrote:

    Carol wrote:What an intriguing start for a thread. Love it.

    As the flame one is anchored in the light providing a steady presence. Years back at the onset of learning meditation we were taught to focus on a candle flame and trained to hold that image in our minds eye. Doing this over the years allows one to stop the mind's monkey chatter and eventually led to a deeps sense of inner peace.

    Perhaps the moth is representative of the monkey mind where one is distracted by what comes on go that can lead one into danger. I think of the moth as free to experience life in all of it's vastness flitting from one experience to the next whereas the flame is centered in it's own ongoing creative presence. As one goes inward one ignites that which is awlays present yet perhaps not yet manifested. Are we not both, the moth and the flame during the span of our lifetime?  Enlightened

    [size=16]This so-called 'monkey mind' you speak of (for me, not related to the moth)...  I'd not be so quick to give it a bad rap.  How do you explain me?  I'm almost always in my so-called 'monkey mind' AND my right mind at the same time...  Both are my anchor.  If the 'monkey mind' is so terrible, how come I feel it is that which defines me as an individual, helps to keep me grounded, centered, and knowing exactly who I am and where I am at all times?  It is my identity -- a part of everything I am, my strength, my independence... even my sense of humour.  In balance... I never travel without it on 'this side' or the 'other side' of the veil.  


    The mind is a map, a sort of a maze that contains and shapes our beliefs.
    You, I , we as soul beings are able to light the map and bring it to life. Raise it out of darkness, perceive and use it with awareness as a compass. Indeed the greater our ability to cast light the more we see from  " I " and less from " our 2 eyes " only.
    At times our solid vision  captivates us so fully that we are being the moth evolving in the dimmed light of I with blinders on. Removing the blinders is Being the flame. We can play to be whatever we choose. Ultimately  it doesn't make any difference , just one in perception.

    My favorite video pointing to the above  is the following.
    Posted before but too good in my " I " not to be  posted again  Cheerful

    Perception - The reality beyond matter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y


    Love Always
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  mudra on Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:23 am

    JoeEcho wrote:
    Pris wrote:At the end of the day...

    At the end of the day? Don't you know that the day never ends?

    "Have I been blind, have I been lost Inside myself and my own mind Hypnotized, mesmerized by what my eyes have seen?"

    Could it be that day-in-day-out is the misconception that we are getting or going somewhere?

    Joe

    Yes indeed. Nicely worded and illustrated Joe Thubs Up
    Good to see you posting in our Mists Flowers

    Love from me
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Carol on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

    Pris wrote:
    What I've been attempting to say here is that my 'monkey mind' helps in planning the trip in advance and then sits with me during the trip.  It gives me the road map to controlling where I go and what I do.  It accompanies me (because it IS me).  That 'anchor' if you will, keeps me lucid.  I know who I am, aware of my surroundings -- shaping them as I go... even asking questions (to myself).

    It can be a bit of a tug of war... balance is key.

    When it comes to alleviating stress, I find humour works wonders.[/size]

    Exactly. Yet ask yourself this.. who is the observer?

    It accompanies me (because it IS me) - really? Is this not the observer - conscious awareness - spirit?

    Monkey mind becomes active in the 3rd dimension. Do you think it is active in the upper spiritual dimensions? I tend to think or experience monkey mind as necessary when dealing with polarity, good-evil, duality. Outside of the 3rd dimension when experiencing singularity monkey mind collapses leaving only the witness/observer.


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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:34 pm

    mudra wrote:
    Yes indeed. Nicely worded and illustrated Joe Thubs Up
    Good to see you posting in our Mists Flowers

    Love from me
    mudra

    Thank you, Mudra.

    And as for the video you posted, it could be posted a bunch of times a year and I'd probably watch it each time.

    Perception is akin to oblivion.  It's actually both the red pill AND the blue pill in the Matrix. It's like dressing up an illusion in two different colors and proposing one IS fundamentally different then the other.

    I like the concept of lucid dreaming where one in CERTAIN it's a dream but plays along anyways because this is where play 'happens'. Thought/ perception is a form of dreaming and perhaps knowing that is the lucid part.

    If you haven't figured it out yet, I enjoy connecting dots on the fly. There is a tendency to discover some interesting connections that way.


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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:29 pm

    Carol wrote:
    Pris wrote:
    What I've been attempting to say here is that my 'monkey mind' helps in planning the trip in advance and then sits with me during the trip.  It gives me the road map to controlling where I go and what I do.  It accompanies me (because it IS me).  That 'anchor' if you will, keeps me lucid.  I know who I am, aware of my surroundings -- shaping them as I go... even asking questions (to myself).

    It can be a bit of a tug of war... balance is key.

    When it comes to alleviating stress, I find humour works wonders.[/size]

    Exactly. Yet ask yourself this.. who is the observer?

    It accompanies me (because it IS me) - really? Is this not the observer - conscious awareness - spirit?

    Monkey mind becomes active in the 3rd dimension. Do you think it is active in the upper spiritual dimensions? I tend to think or experience monkey mind as necessary when dealing with polarity, good-evil, duality. Outside of the 3rd dimension when experiencing singularity monkey mind collapses leaving only the witness/observer.

    The observer is a tricky lot.  Observing Self is where the shadow of doubt enters in. Who is who?

    "And the single biggest con is that, ‘I am you." -Dr. Steven C. Hayes, Ph.D."

    Speaking of mind maps, mudra, here is one of the best ones I have encountered in a quote.....

    "At first it’s difficult for the mind to accept that there’s something beyond itself, that there’s something of greater value and of greater capacity for discerning truth than itself.” -Dr. David Hawkins M.D., Ph.D.

    Of course, 'something beyond itself' is off the charts. Cool


    Last edited by JoeEcho on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:57 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : quotes had mysteriously disappeared from post)
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Carol on Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:26 am

    This bit of info offers additional insight that I agree with based on direct personal experience.

    HUMAN “CONSCIOUSNESS” COLLAPSES THE QUANTUM WAVE FUNCTION IN A GROUNDBREAKING STUDY
    Posted by stevew | Jun 8, 2017 | 2017, Consciousness, Daily Blog, Quantum Physics

    Collective Evolution
    HUMAN “CONSCIOUSNESS” COLLAPSES THE QUANTUM WAVE FUNCTION IN A GROUNDBREAKING STUDY
    ARJUN WALIA

    JUNE 7, 2017

    When it comes comes to quantum physics, it’s very common for researchers to come across information and results that leave them baffled, or simply don’t comply with the known laws of physics. The result is often more questions than answers — and that’s okay.

    “We chose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics. In reality, it contains the only mystery.”

    – Richard Feynman, a Nobel laureate of the twentieth century (from Dean Radin’s Entangled Minds: Extrasensory Experiences In A Quantum Reality)

    In many instances, some results can go against the long-held and ingrained belief systems of many who hold prominent positions within modern day academia. The idea that that we live in a “spiritual” universe, for example, has been criticized heavily by mainstream academics.

    Richard Conn Henry, a professor in the Henry A. Rowland Department of Physics and Astronomy at John Hopkins University, explains this problem well:

    Physicists shy from the truth because the truth is so alien to everyday physics. A common way to evade the mental Universe is to invoke ‘decoherence’ — the notion that ‘the physical environment’ is sufficient to create reality, independent of the human mind. Yet the idea that any irreversible act of amplification is necessary to collapse the wave function is known to be wrong: in ‘Renninger-type’ experiments, the wave function is collapsed simply by your human mind seeing nothing. (Is this the experience of singularity?) The Universe is entirely mental. . . . The world is quantum mechanical: we must learn to perceive it as such. . . .The Universe is immaterial — mental and spiritual.

    Perhaps this is why most of the founding fathers of quantum physics all shared the same belief, that consciousness is fundamental, that it precedes material reality, not the other way around. Perhaps this is also why more than 20 Nobel prizewinners and a large number of eminent minds have supported what seems to be the next step for quantum physics, which, in my opinion, is parapsychology.

    Here is a great study published in the journal Frontiers of Neuroscience titled “A call for an open, informed study of all aspects of consciousness” that explores this thoroughly.

    “The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”

    – Nikola Tesla


    Related CE Article: Space Is Not Empty: What The Whole World Should Know About The Quantum Vacuum

    THE QUANTUM DOUBLE SLIT AND WHAT CONSCIOUSNESS DID TO IT
    The quantum double slit experiment sheds light on what’s known as the the quantum measurement problem. The quantum double slit experiment involves a physical system, as well as a measuring apparatus, which does an observation of the system.

    In this experiment, tiny bits of matter (photons, electrons, or any atomic-sized object) are shot towards a screen that has two slits in it. On the other side of the screen, a high tech video camera records where each photon lands. When scientists close one slit, the camera will show us an expected pattern, as seen in the video below. But when both slits are opened, an “interference pattern” emerges — they begin to act like waves. This doesn’t mean that atomic objects are observed as a wave (even though it recently has been observed as a wave); they just act that way. It means that each photon individually goes through both slits at the same time and interferes with itself, but it also goes through one slit, and it goes through the other. Furthermore, it goes through neither of them. The single piece of matter becomes a “wave” of potentials, expressing itself in the form of multiple possibilities, and this is why we get the interference pattern.

    How can a single piece of matter exist and express itself in multiple states, without any physical properties, until it is “measured” or “observed”? Furthermore, how does it choose which path, out of multiple possibilities, it will take?

    This quantum uncertainty is defined as the ability, “according to the quantum mechanic laws that govern subatomic affairs, of a particle like an electron to exist in a murky state of possibility — to be anywhere, everywhere or nowhere at all — until clicked into substantiality by a laboratory detector or an eyeball.”  

    Perhaps this is why most of the founding fathers of quantum physics all spoke of something outside of our physical realm that influences the system, factors associated with consciousness, like measurement, observation, and intention.

    THE EXPERIMENT AND WHAT HAPPENED
    A paper published in the peer-reviewed journal Physics Essays explains how this experiment has been used multiple times to explore the role of consciousness in shaping the nature of physical reality.

    It was published by Dr. Dean Radin, who you will see in the lecture below. He’s the chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.

    He produced incredible results: Human intention, via meditators, was able to actually collapse the quantum wave function. The meditators were the “observer” in this case.

    In fact, as Radin points out in his lecture, a “5 sigma” result was able to give CERN the Nobel Prize in 2013 for finding the Higgs particle (which turned out not to be Higgs after all). In this study, they also received a 5 sigma result when testing meditators against non-meditators in collapsing the quantum wave function. This means that mental activity, the human mind,  attention, intention, which are a few labels under the umbrella of consciousness, compelled physical matter to act in a certain way.

    “Observations not only disturb what has to be measured, they produce it. . . . We compel [the electron] to assume a definite position. . . . We ourselves produce the results of the measurement.”

    When it comes to the study of human consciousness, results like these remind me of a study published by a statistics professor at UC Irvine more than a decade ago. It showed parapsychological experiments have produced much stronger results than those showing a daily dose of aspirin helps prevent a heart attack. (Monkey mind working with Observer perhaps?) It also showed that these results are much stronger than the research behind various drugs like antiplatelets, for example. Despite these findings, psi experiments are only marginally acknowledged and not even known in the general “scientific” community, despite the fact that the evidence for psi is stronger than for the effectiveness of popular pharmaceutical drugs!

    Perhaps that’s why the U.S. government ran a program examining psi for more than two decades, and is probably still doing so.

    Related CE Article: Cancelled TED Talk: Physicist Contracted By The CIA Shares Everything He Knows About ESP


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    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:05 pm

    Quantum Physics, I have been fascinated by it ever since the now famous double slit experiment and it's ramification throughout all of reality.

    Consider this:

    Quantum Physics and Consciousness are part of a continuous tapestry much like what is described in Quantum Mechanics regarding quantum entanglement. It makes sense then that they are influenced by each other and mutually dependent.

    "If I am I because I am I, and you are you because you are you, then I am I and you are you. But if I am I because you are you and you are you because I am I, then I am not I and you are not you!" - Menachem Mendel of Kotzk

    Speaking of tapestry, care to take a ride?




    ALADDIN:    You, uh, you don't want to go for a ride, do you? We could get out of the palace, see the world.
    JASMINE:    Is it safe?
    ALADDIN:    Sure.  Do you trust me?
    JASMINE:    (She looks at him at the saying of that all-important line) What?
    ALADDIN:    (Extends his hand the same as before) Do you trust me?
    JASMINE:    (Gets a sly grin on her face) Yes.


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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:07 pm

    Analogy #362




    The flame is our true/ pure nature, unchanged throughout 'reality'. The moth is consciousness, constantly trying to convince us otherwise. It is this same consciousness that will not admit this very same true/ pure nature in 'others'.

    Two (or more) people can consciously believe that they know each other intimately and due to some circumstance come to question whether they ever knew them at all. Why is that?

    To the one reading this post, do I consciously KNOW you? No. But I most definitely KNOW you that doesn't involve consciousness at all. Some might find that nonsensical, but what can I say? That is for you to discover if so inclined.




    (maybe)



    YOU know. I just don't know if you know that you know, you know?  -- JoeEcho
    Wink


    Last edited by JoeEcho on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:58 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : quote)
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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Carol on Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:46 pm





    I know you


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    JoeEcho

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:12 am

    Carol wrote:[center]

    Hi Carol,

    I experience in the spirit of the above quote and it is soooooooo true. I am not always in the zone so to speak but when I am.... wow.... speechless.

    P.s. I think this dog KNOWS.
      lol!

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:44 pm

    JoeEcho wrote:
    Pris wrote:At the end of the day...

    At the end of the day? Don't you know that the day never ends?



    "Have I been blind, have I been lost Inside myself and my own mind Hypnotized, mesmerized by what my eyes have seen?"



    Could it be that day-in-day-out is the misconception that we are getting or going somewhere?

    Coming at you sideways,

    Joe





    BaaHAHAHA!!  (Remind me not to use that particular idiom around Joe ever again. jocolor)


    Yes, there is no 'end'.  It's 'The Neverending Story'.





    The Neverending Story
    lyrics
    Songwriters
    GIORGIO MORODER, KEITH FORSEY
    __________
    Turn around
    Look at what you see
    In her face
    The mirror of your dreams

    Make believe I'm everywhere
    Given in the light
    Written on the pages
    Is the answer to a never ending story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...

    Reach the stars
    Fly a fantasy
    Dream a dream
    And what you see will be

    Rhymes that keep their secrets
    Will unfold behind the clouds
    And there upon a rainbow
    Is the answer to a never ending story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...

    Story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...

    Show no fear
    For she may fade away
    In your hand
    The birth of a new day

    Rhymes that keep their secrets
    Will unfold behind the clouds
    And there upon a rainbow
    Is the answer to a never ending story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...

    Never ending story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...
    Never ending story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...
    Never ending story
    Ahahah ahahah ahahah...


    ........................................................................................BE THE OUROBOROS


    ................................................................WHAT DOORS WILL YOU OPEN?
    .
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    JoeEcho

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  JoeEcho on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:07 pm

    Pris wrote:


    BaaHAHAHA!!  (Remind me not to use that particular idiom around Joe ever again. jocolor)

    lol!  lol!  lol!

    CHOOSE wisely next time.   Whistle



    I only ask for duck sake.  Razz

    They've become quite persistent as you can clearly see....

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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:05 pm

    ...


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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:09 pm

    ...


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    Re: “Be the flame, not the moth,” advised Casanova

    Post  Pris on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:50 pm


    Just having some fun. Very Happy





























    .
    .


    Last edited by Pris on Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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