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    The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

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    Sanicle

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Sanicle on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:20 am

    mudra wrote:
    Sanicle wrote:I feel it’s necessary to clarify that this thread was begun to make readers aware of the potential problems that can occur in our physical (in particular), emotional and mental bodies, due to practising meditation………….dangers which are not often spelled out by those who recommend the practice and, as such, many seem unaware of, as was I.  The thread is NOT intended to delve into what (or who) may come through to us from other sources from participating in any of the various forms of this practise.  There are plenty of threads and info on the net that discuss this already.

    I’ve added this clarification in the first post.  I love you 

    My bad I realize now I misinterpreted the title of your thread Sanicle as having to do with  "the dangers of wrongly praticing meditation "which then evolved as the discussion was taking place to having to do with  " wrong meditation techniques " . Both interpretations obviously did'nt have anything to do with what you really meant. I should have read you much more carefully my friend. Apologies for this.

    Much Love for You
    mudra

     Hugs 

    No apology necessary my friend.  I did have trouble coming up with a concise title for the thread that would express its content with clarity and am not surprised it was found to be misleading.  Any suggestions for a new one would be appreciated?   Surprised  Maybe even "The Dangers of Wrong (for you) Meditation Practices" or "Little Known Potential Side Effects from Meditating" Question  Or maybe something a little more positive sounding, like "How Meditation Can Reveal Hidden Imbalances"  Very Happy 
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    mudra

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  mudra on Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:02 pm

    Thank you my friend. Feel free to rename the thread as you feel fits best your expectation Sanicle.
    As far as I am concerned the subject cleared itself up along the discussion.

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    Sanicle

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Sanicle on Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:08 pm

    Further accounts of how meditation can be harmful for some who are unaware.

    An excerpt from the article here: http://thehumanist.com/magazine/september-october-2007/features/can-meditation-be-bad-for-you

    In recent years neuroscientists have been examining the effects of meditation on the brain. Professor Richard Davidson of Wisconsin, a long-term Buddhist meditator himself, claims that meditation can “change neural states in circuits that may be important for compassionate behavior and attentional and emotional regulation.” However, other scientists argue that Davidson’s claims are unsubstantiated and that his studies have serious flaws ranging from experimental design to conclusions. Dr. Nancy Hayes, a neurobiologist at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School in New Jersey, says that Davidson and his supporters promote research before it has been replicated. And what is really interesting, but never highlighted, is that Davidson himself points out that, for psychologists using meditation to treat their patients, “Meditation is not going to be good for all patients with emotional disorders and it may even be bad for certain types of patients.”

    Dr. Solomon Snyder, head of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins University, warns that during meditation the brain releases serotonin. This may help those with mild depression but too much serotonin can cause, in some, a paradoxical relaxation-induced anxiety. Instead of relaxing during meditation, these people become distressed and may even have panic attacks. Snyder says that in some cases of schizophrenia, meditation can launch a person straight into psychosis.

    And what about all those good feelings one can experience in meditation? Is there another explanation, for example, for that transcendental feeling of being one with the universe?

    Dr. Andrew Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania scanned the brains of long-term practitioners of Buddhism while they were meditating and compared them with images taken when they were not. Newberg saw that blood flow to the posterior superior parietal lobe decreased during meditation. This area of the brain determines the boundaries of one’s body in relation to the environment and allows us to navigate a complex three-dimensional world without bumping into things. “We know that the posterior superior parietal lobe plays that particular role because there are patients with damage in this same region who literally cannot move around without falling,” Newberg reports. “They’ll miss the chair they intended to sit on, and generally have a fuzzy understanding of where their body ends and the rest of the universe begins.” He says that when people have spiritual experiences and feel they become one with the universe and lose their sense of self, it may be because of what is happening in that area of the brain. “If you block that area, you lose that boundary between the self and the rest of the world.” Were the Buddhist meditators merely experiencing an odd side effect of submitting their brains to unusual conditions?

    Dr. Michael Persinger, a professor of neuroscience at the Laurentian University in Canada, studied 1,018 meditators in 1993 and found that meditation can bring on symptoms of complex partial epilepsy such as visual abnormalities, hearing voices, feeling vibrations, or experiencing automatic behaviors such as narcolepsy. Note that epileptic patients who suffer from seizures in the temporal lobes have auditory or visual hallucinations, which they often interpret as mystical experiences. Some are convinced that they conversed with God.

    In recent years Persinger set out to investigate so-called “mystical” experiences under controlled laboratory conditions. He got volunteers to wear a helmet fitted with a set of magnets through which he ran a weak electromagnetic signal. Persinger found that the magnetically induced seizures in the temporal lobes generate the same sort of hallucinations and mystical experiences reported by epileptic patients. Four in five people, he says, report a “mystical experience, the feeling that there is a sentient being or entity standing behind or near” them. Some weep, some feel God has touched them, others become frightened and talk of demons and evil spirits. “That’s in the laboratory,” Persinger notes, referring to subjects’ knowledge of a controlled environment. “How much more intense might these experiences be if they happened late at night, or in a pew in a mosque or synagogue?”

    Does this indicate that so-called mystical experiences may be caused by seizures, by a temporary malfunction of the brain circuitry triggered by abnormal conditions such as sensory deprivation or decreased blood flow to the parietal lobe? Is that what happened to me?

    In addition to the neuroscientists’ findings, there is anecdotal evidence that shouldn’t be overlooked. Clearly there are potential dangers with long meditation retreats, particularly for beginners.
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    mudra

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  mudra on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:17 pm

    Sanicle wrote:Further accounts of how meditation can be harmful for some who are unaware.

    I think that line contains it's remedy.

    Love from me
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    Sanicle

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Sanicle on Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:03 pm

    ^^^ Ha, yes, ironic isn't it that most people take up meditation as it's promoted as the magical pathway to being able to attain that very thing ..... becoming aware.

    Mind you, even though I think many, like myself, take it up without being aware of the not-so-well known pitfalls that may be part of the journey (such as those listed in the above posts) self-awareness of one's imbalances are still revealed by doing so, maybe just not quite in the ways we've been led to believe or expect LOL.  Looking back on my journeys I can see many ways in which stimulation was brought to those very chakras that I know are still not so strong, which caused me to reject much of which I was offered.  Ironic indeed.  But all good if you have the courage to undertake the journey and deal with the unexpected surprises along the way.  And I'm happy with the choices I made and accept that I am what I am with no apologies.  Meditation just allowed me to see it much more clearly than I would have otherwise, I'm sure.  Lessons learned and none of it wasted.  Isn't that what we're here for?

    I really don't think that most who take up meditation manage to attain to the great heights that Matt Presti describes in that video you posted in #3 (http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t7446-the-dangers-of-wrong-meditation-practices#105425) where he speaks of "dissolution of thought", that we should "stop thinking" so our "mind's at rest", "no vibrations created by thinking which is where we find Source", or, in Oxy's words, being able to empty one's mind, but even if we don't reach those rare heights the practice can be illuminating re who we are.  And yes, even if something like psychosis (eg) is the result.  That's a wake-up call if ever there was one!

    The inner worlds are a magical mystery tour indeed.   Wink  Surprised  I love you
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    Sanicle

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Sanicle on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:02 am

    Brook wrote:One last thing on the Vertigo.....

    Dopamine increases during meditation.

    The neurochemistry of vertigo includes six primary neurotransmitters that have been identified between the three-neuron arc that drives the vestibulo-ocular reflex.

    Dopamine may accelerate vestibular compensation.


    Causes and symptoms of Vertigo:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo

    (Scroll to "Pathophysiology" in the veritgo wiki article)

    And most important...in the practice of meditation and vertigo in connection to Dopamine:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958969


    I found that after a few minutes research...imagine!

    Must be the coffee  Huh ? 

     Brook


    Don't forget to ground! 

    Call me dumb if you like Brook, but I really don't get the point you're trying to make with this post.  I've done more research on this info you put forth and it seems to me that Dopamine .... as it says on Wiki, one of the six primary neurotransmitters involved  ...... is one of the good ones in that it actually helps with compensating during the sensations associated with vertigo, which is I guess why some forward thinking doctors recommend it for some patients who have the problem.

    To quote your quote: "Dopamine may accelerate vestibular compensation."  So I looked up vestibular compensation .........
    After injury to the inner ear, the brain undergoes a complex set of changes that allow it to adapt to the altered sensory input and abolish the perception of vertigo. This process is called “vestibular compensation.”

    From: http://umm.edu/programs/hearing/services/vertigo

    And your latter link concurs that Dopamine is increased during meditation, even in the title, "Increased dopamine tone during meditation-induced change of consciousness."  So I wouldn't say that Dopamine is a problem for me when I experience it during meditation and the cause in my particular case must be something else.  No?  scratch 

    Again, I think it's more in relation to your last comment ......... "Don't forget to ground!"   I love you
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    Brook

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Brook on Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:26 am

    Sanicle wrote:
    Brook wrote:One last thing on the Vertigo.....

    Dopamine increases during meditation.

    The neurochemistry of vertigo includes six primary neurotransmitters that have been identified between the three-neuron arc that drives the vestibulo-ocular reflex.

    Dopamine may accelerate vestibular compensation.


    Causes and symptoms of Vertigo:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo

    (Scroll to "Pathophysiology" in the veritgo wiki article)

    And most important...in the practice of meditation and vertigo in connection to Dopamine:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958969


    I found that after a few minutes research...imagine!

    Must be the coffee  Huh ? 

     Brook


    Don't forget to ground! 

    Call me dumb if you like Brook, but I really don't get the point you're trying to make with this post.  I've done more research on this info you put forth and it seems to me that Dopamine .... as it says on Wiki, one of the six primary neurotransmitters involved  ...... is one of the good ones in that it actually helps with compensating during the sensations associated with vertigo, which is I guess why some forward thinking doctors recommend it for some patients who have the problem.

    To quote your quote: "Dopamine may accelerate vestibular compensation."  So I looked up vestibular compensation .........
    After injury to the inner ear, the brain undergoes a complex set of changes that allow it to adapt to the altered sensory input and abolish the perception of vertigo. This process is called “vestibular compensation.”

    From: http://umm.edu/programs/hearing/services/vertigo

    And your latter link concurs that Dopamine is increased during meditation, even in the title, "Increased dopamine tone during meditation-induced change of consciousness."  So I wouldn't say that Dopamine is a problem for me when I experience it during meditation and the cause in my particular case must be something else.  No?  scratch 

    Again, I think it's more in relation to your last comment ......... "Don't forget to ground!"   I love you

    Don;t forget to ground was more of a side not regarding the practice of meditation.

    Vertigo:

    What are medicines for vertigo and how do they work?

    A number of medicines can be prescribed to help with the symptoms of vertigo. They include: prochlorperazine or antihistamines such as cinnarizine, cyclizine, or promethazine. These medicines are the same ones that are used to help treat nausea and motion sickness. They work by blocking certain chemicals in the brain. Prochlorperazine blocks a chemical called dopamine

    Which medicine is usually prescribed?

    The choice of medicine depends on what is causing your vertigo and how severe your symptoms are. If you have severe nausea, your doctor may prescribe prochlorperazine.

    Why would they prescribe a medication to "block dopamine" for Vertigo?

    If meditation increases Dopamine....and to counteract Vertigo they give you a drug to "block dopamine".....logic would conclude increased levels of dopamine might cause said vertigo symptoms?

    Here is yet another link to the information I just presented.

    http://www.patient.co.uk/health/medicines-for-vertigo

    Although I'd caution taking such a medication....opting for something that might be better suited.


    I don't know what's causing your vertigo.  Could be an inner ear thing or perhaps something else.

    But to conclude if increased levels of dopamine are perhaps there, and Meditation is something you feel might have caused it...while the paper I cited notates increased levels of Dopamine during mediation......while a primary medication for Vertigo is a blocker of Dopamine....one can only conclude no?

    btw...I would NEVER call you dumb!  
     Flowers

    Additional inquires on dopamine and vertigo "symptoms"

    https://www.google.com/search?q=virtigo++dopamine3&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#channel=sb&q=vertigo+dopamine&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:47 pm

    My meditation, prayer, and research seems to have placed me closer to the center of a nasty galactic spiritual war (which has highly traumatized me). I seem to be attempting to face a reality which does not wish to be revealed. I've been very indirect -- and I sense that if I were more direct that things would really go to hell. BTW -- a Sexy Egyptologist once told me to "Beware of Zahi" -- and her boyfriend didn't seem to like it when I got "too friendly" with her!! I continue to have some sort of a mental-block relative to Egyptology -- and I am mostly limiting my studies to Biblical-Related Egyptology (such as the work of Gerald Massey and Ralph Ellis). I remain saddened by that damn "accident". Namaste.
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    Sanicle

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Sanicle on Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:37 pm

    Brook wrote:
    Don;t forget to ground was more of a side not regarding the practice of meditation.

    Vertigo:

    What are medicines for vertigo and how do they work?

    A number of medicines can be prescribed to help with the symptoms of vertigo. They include: prochlorperazine or antihistamines such as cinnarizine, cyclizine, or promethazine. These medicines are the same ones that are used to help treat nausea and motion sickness. They work by blocking certain chemicals in the brain. Prochlorperazine blocks a chemical called dopamine

    Which medicine is usually prescribed?

    The choice of medicine depends on what is causing your vertigo and how severe your symptoms are. If you have severe nausea, your doctor may prescribe prochlorperazine.

    Why would they prescribe a medication to "block dopamine" for Vertigo?

    If meditation increases Dopamine....and to counteract Vertigo they give you a drug to "block dopamine".....logic would conclude increased levels of dopamine might cause said vertigo symptoms?

    Here is yet another link to the information I just presented.

    http://www.patient.co.uk/health/medicines-for-vertigo

    Although I'd caution taking such a medication....opting for something that might be better suited.


    I don't know what's causing your vertigo.  Could be an inner ear thing or perhaps something else.

    But to conclude if increased levels of dopamine are perhaps there, and Meditation is something you feel might have caused it...while the paper I cited notates increased levels of Dopamine during mediation......while a primary medication for Vertigo is a blocker of Dopamine....one can only conclude no?

    btw...I would NEVER call you dumb!  
     Flowers

    Additional inquires on dopamine and vertigo "symptoms"

    https://www.google.com/search?q=virtigo++dopamine3&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#channel=sb&q=vertigo+dopamine&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

    Thanks for taking the time and trouble Brook. Interesting that the Dopamine (the "feel good" chemical) blocker, Prochlorperazine, is essentially an anti-psychoctic (hallucinations, delusions, etc) drug as well as being able to stop nausea that some have with vertigo. (Not me thank goodness.) The different ways the body uses its chemical arsenal is extraordinary when you look into it more. But so glad the doctor didn't get a chance to try it out on me when the side effects can be pretty drastic!

     Hugs 
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    mudra

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  mudra on Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:25 pm

    Regarding vertigo this was part of the symptoms I expereienced lately that I shared in the " We make the road by walking " thread .

    I have an earthing bracelet I slept with for 2 days in a row. The benefits were soon felt and I found myself quickly back in balance.
    Walking bare feet in the grass would probably have led to the same results but for those who aren't able to do this the bracelet is really handy.

    I hope you are feeling better Sanicle and that the discomfort you experienced while meditating is now gone.

    Love from me
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    mudra

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  mudra on Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:33 pm

    Some research regarding the sensation of dizziness during meditation led me to the following:


    Spinning and dizziness during meditation – Question: I enjoy your meditations, but at times when I meditate I begin to spin and get dizzy. Can you explain this? Answer: If you become very deeply relaxed during meditation, the body has a chance to “unwind” and release tension. There can be shifts in subtle energies in the body as it moves toward greater balance. You may feel all sorts of things as this is happening, including a sense of spinning or dizziness. If this is happening, be sure to take plenty of time coming out of meditation. If the spinning feels too strong in meditation, you can open your eyes and this should stop the process. -

    See more at: http://www.meditationoasis.com/podcast/podcast-q-a/

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    Sanicle

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  Sanicle on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:20 am

    Thanks for those last two posts Mudra.  I'm sorry to hear that you had a bout of vertigo as well.......from the ear surgery do you think?  Excellent that the grounding bracelet cleared the problem up for you though.   Thubs Up 

    For my part, neither a grounding bracelet nor opening my eyes did the trick for me, but that doesn't mean this info might not help someone else some day.  It's all good.  

    I've had no vertigo since I stopped meditating, as I said, but still believe more grounding wouldn't go amiss at all.  I took note of that thread you started about the huge benefits of grounding with Mother Earth a little while ago ........ HERE for others interested.  Now the weather is warming up again in Melbourne I'm looking forward to walking barefoot on the grass and on the beach just down the road.   cheers  I'm so lucky.
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    mudra

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  mudra on Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:42 pm

    No the vertigo feeling was'nt related to the ear operation I think as by then I had fully recovered from the side effects that ensued.
    As I mentioned in the thread it came as a deep impact from various subjects I had focused my attention on which carried a lot of pain . That particular day I realized I had been carrying the whole world misery on my shoulders and deep within it manifested as great suffering  as I was experiencing how much hurt was being lived on different levels on our planet. My head began to spin as my balance was tilting.

    I am glad you found your own way to get over the dizziness you felt while meditating by simply stopping practicing it.

    What came back to mind is an article I once posted in Old Avalon that mentioned different personality types and how each of these fared much better with different kinds of spiritual practices matching their own nature . I am unable to find it unfortunately. Basically what was being pointed out is how some natures do well with quiet and calm exercises of a meditative or contemplative type while others needed something more dynamic . I think here of Aikido , yoga , Tensegrity or anything else that would have a dynamic principle to it. The difference between a still lake and a waterfall Wink

    May the hot weather come soon in Melbourne that you may enjoy you bare feet walks to the sea :)

    Much Love for You
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: The Dangers of Wrong Meditation Practices

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:21 pm

    What if "Work Hard -- Play Hard" trumps "Prayer -- Meditation -- Research -- Reflection" in this particular world?? My feeble attempts at solving the world's problems have almost seemed to be "subversive-activities" at times -- with not so subtle hints that such activities imply "Thinking One Knows Better Than God". I'm honestly thinking about ending my quest -- and either going back to church (without a frown or doubt) OR becoming a hard-living secularist!! Neither option involves "Research, Reflection, and Meditation" -- but the first option might involve regular "Confessing and Repenting Prayer". Is there some wisdom to being a "Secular-Catholic"?? You know -- being a "Pious-Zombie" one hour a week -- and a "Backslidden-Reprobate" the rest of the time!! Just Kidding!!

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