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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:10 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I think we really need to Be Good -- rather than simply being Declared Good by virtue of the Human-Sacrifice of Jesus Christ


    Absolutely and what is good is not up to vote but is declared by God. In other words God decides what is good and not. Humans have the responsibility to seek the Creator of the earth in a world with various religions and ideologies. This is not an easy task and is impossible if God is not sought for.

    It is not intuitively true that the God of the Bible is the true God but it is possible to figure this out through investigation as the evidence is beyond any reasonable doubt.

    We are not declared good by the Father for covering for our crimes with the crucifixion of the Son but we are forgiven. The Son our Maker took the blame for our errors and so we are justified before the Father.

    This is not a licence to sin but is a carte blanche free forgiveness for past sins.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:16 am

    So, we don't need any laws outside of those within the Torah?? And, we don't need to study Ethics -- other than the ethics revealed within the Torah?? My bias is that we should read the Bible -- straight-through -- over and over again -- but talk about it very little -- and follow very few of the examples and instructions directly in modernity. We should relate Bible-Study with Interdisciplinary-Study -- and then Think and Do Whatever Makes Sense aka "Doing the Responsible Thing". The Torah states "Thou Shalt Not Kill" -- yet it is filled with Merciless-Murder (commanded and committed by God and God's Chosen People). The Torah states "Thou Shalt Not Steal" -- yet it is filled with Merciless-Conquest (commanded and committed by God and God's Chosen People). Hitler and Stalin are thought of as Insane-Monsters -- but weren't they in Moral-Harmony with the Torah (regarding Killing and Stealing)?? What if the Giants were here first -- and were mercilessly murdered by Alien Invaders from Orion?? I don't know if that was the case -- but I am highly distrustful of the Traditional-History. I tend to think that something really, really bad happened in Antiquity (and got covered-up by the conquerors). Alex Collier speaks of 22 Extraterrestrial-Races being here on Earth (and I think he was mostly referring to Human-ET's -- but I'm not sure about that). What if Earth was (and is) a Galactic Rat-Trap -- in the form of a Power-Vacuum -- specifically designed to Cleanse the Sanctuary -- and to Ensure that Sin does NOT Arise a Second Time?? I sense that I'm just scratching the surface in this area of speculative and unconventional research. I think they know exactly what I'm talking about in London and Rome -- but they're not talking to me!! What if the problem is NOT with the basic Human-Physicality Concept -- but rather with the Particular Souls in This Solar System?? I'll keep thinking in unconventional ways -- even if this causes me to go insane (and/or lose my eternal-life). I think something Big and Bad is being Massively Covered-Up (Regarding the History of the Solar System). Once again, I am very suspicious of the Sacrificial-System and the Substitutionary-Atonement. How about a Reasonable and Rational System of Ethics and Law -- with a Reasonable and Rational System of Rewards and Punishments?? Hitler could've done a Jimmy Swaggert Impersonation (Pleading for Forgiveness ) -- and walked away from the Horrors of World War II in Good and Regular Standing with the Father, Son, and Holy-Spirit (According to the Sacrificial-System and the Substitutionary-Atonement). What if Hitler had to work in a Karmic-Debtor's Prison to pay off his Karmic-Debt?? What if the Top One-Percent Reincarnated as the Bottom One-Percent?? The Biggest SOB can just keep going to Mass (Praying to the Trinity for Forgiveness) -- Get Their Salvation Renewed and Refreshed -- and Then Go Right Back to Being the Biggest SOB!! What's Wrong With This Picture??!!


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:49 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:The Torah states "Thou Shalt Not Kill" -- yet it is filled with Merciless-Murder (commanded and committed by God and God's Chosen People).


    Well what did God do to the Jews when they broke the laws of living ? Is it so hard to understand that God do not tolerate evil forever ? What do you think God is about to do to the corrupt criminal nations of the world this time ?



    orthodoxymoron wrote:The Biggest SOB can just keep going to Mass (Praying to the Trinity for Forgiveness) -- Get Their Salvation Renewed and Refreshed -- and Then Go Right Back to Being the Biggest SOB!! What's Wrong With This Picture??!!

    God is not fooled. If the SOB thinks he can outsmart God then he is a SOB alright.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:14 pm

    It just seems to me as if just about anything can be rationalized and legitimized (no matter how immoral and reprehensible) if there is a strong enough motivation to do so. "If there's a will -- there's a way" or "If there's fame, fortune, power, and pleasure to be gained -- there's a rationalization to be found". Let me just say that reading Deuteronomy through Matthew in the King James Version of the Holy Bible might result in a "Sinai to Golgotha Eureka-Phenomenon"!! What Would Dr. Alden Thompson Say?? http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/white/alden/index.htm The time-period between King David and Jesus Christ is MOST Interesting!! I think this is MUCH more interesting than Patristic-Studies!! BTW -- could "struggle with God" be interpreted as meaning "rebellion against God"?? I'm obviously on a fishing-expedition -- yet God often seems displeased with "God's Chosen People". I just think that the whole Orion--Egyptian--Hebrew--Christian matter is an unbelievably HUGE can of worms -- yet I don't really know in what particular ways. I see and smell smoke -- but I still don't see the fire -- but someone seems to have set a fire underneath this guy!! Here's a unique and interesting sermon (to say the least)!!



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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:12 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:It just seems to me as if just about anything can be rationalized and legitimized (no matter how immoral and reprehensible) if there is a strong enough motivation to do so.

    Well when one follows the world then one is at enmity with God of the Bible. So it is a personal choice which must be made by each and every one on the earth. Sooner or later we will leave the world as death is inevitable and then what ?

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:37 pm

    Are Genesis through Esther -- and the Book of Revelation -- the Word and Will of the Creator God of the Universe -- or do they reflect a Local Civil-War Among Soul-Relatives?? Do these 18 books represent the Ethical-Epitome of Heaven and Earth?? Will a potential End of Life (as we know it) result in a Status-Quo Ante-Bellum?? What would an Updated Bible and Canon-Law look like (if it were done properly)?? Is there really a better place to go to when we die?? I just think we've been lied to (for thousands of years) regarding who we are -- where we've been -- what we've done -- and where we're going. Is it a sin to positively-reinforce the world we live in?? What if Robert Schuller was to Christianity what Paul was to Judaism?? They both seemed to be Breaks with the Past -- rather than Positively-Reinforcing the Past. Walter Martin told me that Dr. Schuller was preaching a "Corrupt Theology". What I think very few people realize is that the theologies of Paul and Schuller were built upon Extensive Studies of the Past -- and were not created in a vacuum by a couple of Wise-Guys!! The question is "How sustainable and long-term are the Writings of Paul and Schuller??" Some people find Peale Appalling -- and Paul Appealing!! What would a genuine and complete integration of Paul and Schuller look like?? What I find interesting about Ellen White's Prophets and Kings is that it Positively-Reinforces the Whole-Bible in the Context of the Prophets and Kings in Essentially the Last-Half of the Old-Testament. This seems to be an honest and balanced approach to historical-theology. A top church administrator privately told me that the Writings of Ellen White were "Balanced". They also wished me well on my "Quest". This was before I realized I was even on a "Quest". That was just the beginning of my "Time of Trouble".


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:04 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Are Genesis through Esther -- and the Book of Revelation -- the Word and Will of the Creator God of the Universe -- or do they reflect a Local Civil-War Among Soul-Relatives??


    I believe the Bible is inspired and preserved by God so we would know our origin and destiny in a world more or less run by adversaries of God and the common people. For example the consensus theories of Big Bang and evolution ought to tell that the West is not controlled by true Christians but by enemies of Christ.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:29 pm

    I agree, RedEzra -- and I think reading the Bible -- straight-through -- over and over -- is essential to properly understanding the world, solar-system, and universe we live in. Thank-you for your profound insights. Namaste.


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:13 am

    Can men and women become God ?


    Is that what this short life is about... becoming God ? Is it not enough with one God ? And how do you plot to become God anyway ?

    Since there can be no more than one God so where would you be exactly ? You would cease to exist ! This is actually a death wish. Not that it is possible for men and women to become God but even the idea is nothing more than a soul suicidal death wish really. If one is so tired of being then why would Christ grant one eternal life ?
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:40 am

    I just get the sinking feeling that the Creator of Humanity has not been running this Solar System for thousands of years -- and that Human History is NOT what the Creator of Humanity planned. I simply wish for things to be better -- without a Moonraker Scenario. I continue to be very interested in Job through Malachi (KJV) as being a Middle-Way between a Harsh Early Old-Testament and a New Testament which might be more Reformative than Normative. I find an interesting interpretation and elaboration of this approach in the book Prophets and Kings by Ellen White. But this is just me. I don't wish to cram dogma down anyone's throat. I have no problem with the worst of the worst going to jail to pay-off their Karmic-Debt -- but I am presently NOT in favor of Soul Torture and Extermination. I also do NOT know the State of Affairs throughout the rest of the Solar System -- and the rest of the Universe. Under certain favorable circumstances -- some souls MIGHT choose to cease to become Human-Beings -- and choose to become Alien-Beings -- but I certainly do NOT think this should be forced upon anyone -- and especially NOT upon an entire Race and Planet. I am VERY apprehensive toward BOTH Humanity and Divinity -- and frankly toward Myself. I do NOT trust Anyone or Anything. I am EXTREMELY Disillusioned and Despondent -- but I do NOT think Jesus (or Anyone) should end my Soul-Existence (or Anyone's) because of that sort of thing (or because they worked on the Wrong-Day or didn't attend the Right-Church). How about a Reasonable and Rational System of Rewards and Punishments Relative to a Reasonable and Rational System of Ethics and Law??




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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:52 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I just get the sinking feeling that the Creator of Humanity has not been running this Solar System for thousands of years -- and that Human History is NOT what the Creator of Humanity planned.


    The core problem of the world is of course not God nor the common people but fallen angels and their hybrid human children who rule the world. God is in control and once flooded those hybrids and another time put them to the sword.

    So if one calls God cruel for saving humanity from hybrids then one is either a hybrid or uninformed.

    All the ancient nations served fallen angels and their human hybrids except Abraham who would go on to become the grandfather of Israel. And the God of Israel is the one true God personified in Jesus who brought the Spirit and knowledge of God out into the whole world.

    Of course godly men and women could wrest control over the world from the ungodly but this would not happen as foretold by God in His words. Now God is about to go on the offensive again and end this age.

    Do not forget that God made this universe earth as well as you and me so God got a right to our love and respect. And when God paid the price for our crimes then what's the problem ? Sure we got to repent our errors and obey His laws but when one lives in the Father's house then one ought to obey His house rules.

    Hell was made for the fallen angels and their hybrid children but when we insist on joining them then we will.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:55 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. I think you're getting close to the core-problems -- but I sense that the whole truth regarding "As It Was In the Beginning" has been carefully hidden -- and replaced with a cover-story (which might include some aspects of your post). I've tried to lay a foundation for thinking about the possibilities in my United States of the Solar System thread. This is probably more of an attempt to understand the past and present -- than it is to attempt to overthrow the current solar system administration (regardless of whether it is fundamentally good or evil). I just get the impression that if certain individuals and/or factions don't get their way, they will destroy the world, as "sour-grapes" or a "poison-pill". The "Holy-War" might be nearly over -- but "Are We Still Holy??" One more thing. Prophets and Kings by Ellen White -- was published in 1917 (two years after her death). It was her last book. Might this book be considered "The Last Theological Will and Testament of Ellen G. White"?? Next year is 2015 -- the 100th. Anniversary of her death. Is there a Masonic British-Israel influence in all of this?? If so -- might this be the "Good-Side" of a phenomenon which might be quite dark (at times)?? It makes me wonder. It really makes me wonder. What Would Delenn Say??





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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:45 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:What Would Delenn Say??


    Humanity got an enemy and so it is imperative to know who's the enemy else one could end up working for the enemy without even knowing it.

    This enemy is first and foremost spiritual in nature and so the instigator of most religions and ideologies. History tells that human sacrifice and prostitution cults to gods and goddesses were the norm of the old nations. Every tribe got their pantheon of spirit beings whom they served in the most wicked ways.

    Fortunately evil cannot exist alone and so God got a good religion which was known to the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Israel. They got the burden to be the godly nation and atone for the errors of the whole world through a system of animal sacrifice. In other words animals had to die for the mistakes of our forefathers. This ended with the all sufficient sacrifice for sins when our holy God came down and paid the prize for our crimes.

    Sin is serious and God did not even spare His angels who committed crime.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:11 am

    I presently think that sacrifices (animal and human) are gross and barbaric. Why can't there simply be a reasonable and rational system of ethics, law, law-enforcement, and the military -- with a reasonable and rational system of rewards and punishments??



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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:19 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I presently think that sacrifices (animal and human) are gross and barbaric.


    How would angels fallen or not feel if God did not mind our crimes ?

    Since we are not angels and do not know God as good as angels so our sins can be forgiven. But God is not going to condemn sinful angels to hell and let sinful humans get away with that without a cost !

    We were bought with a heavy price now glorify God and sin no more.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:20 pm

    I think there are very few individuals (good, evil, or indifferent) who are capable of properly understanding the absolutely truthful and complete history of this solar system. I just had a rather unpleasant encounter with a hardline SDA (or ex-SDA). I knew that they knew a lot -- but they had an abrasive-edge that turned me off. I tend to think that those who understand a lot -- tend to become marginalized and bitter -- misunderstood and persecuted by an evil, cold, reprobate, and unrepentant world. It might be understandable if they might welcome the literal and complete fulfillment of the Book of Revelation. When the organized-church attempts to be understood by Mainstream-Evangelicals -- the Traditionalists cry "Apostasy!!" I simply walked away from the whole mess -- and went completely-insane!! It's easier that way -- and a lot more fun!!


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:26 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I think there are very few individuals (good, evil, or indifferent) who are capable of properly understanding the absolutely truthful and complete history of this solar system.


    The Bible is just Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth but it is also possible to predict the timing of important events like the return of Christ at the end of the age.

    Some may try to throw around a bible verse saying nobody knows this but God and that was true 2000 years ago but not now... as I have shown in the very first post here.

    Besides I can counter with a bible verse as well which says "but you brethren are not in darkness that the day would overtake you like a thief".

    Well time will tell while time is running out and if one can see the signs of the times and the writings on the wall then one would know as well that time is up.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:11 pm

    I never sense much love in connection with Apocalyptic-Salvation. It always seems to be a "Screw the Humans" sort of thing. I think the Bible should be read from cover to cover -- straight-through -- over and over -- without talking about it (much) -- and without following it directly in modernity. I think it takes a HUGE amount of study and reflection to gain any accurate idea of the true history and nature of this solar system. I've tried to pursue an unconventional approach to solar system studies (within this website) and it's just about completely destroyed what little was left of me. I still think there is something to combining the Torah with Revelation to properly understand what seems to be two sides of the same coin. I still think this world has been ruled with secrecy, deception, corruption, and force (for thousands of years) -- for legitimate and/or illegitimate reasons. I just think the REAL history and reality is too messy, complex, and upsetting for 99.9% of the population to properly digest and understand. I've tried to toughen-up myself and others with my strange and upsetting threads within this website (which I've called a "Galactic Boot-Camp". I think City-State Theologians know the Whole-Story -- but they don't talk about it much.


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    magamud

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    Re: Bible

    Post  magamud on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:18 am

    Anyone who does not understand the grace of the one, will of course feel victimized to it.

    Gods love is first. The good has prevailed and this is the meaning of faith. And if you just follow the good in our world it works the same in the Kingdom. That is because its a code of sorts, a fractal. Its in everything.

    We are created in his image, so mortality and divinity are the same. Its an even playing field no matter who you are.

    You are learning the truth. That is what life and death is about.

    God by no means would just abandon us. He has left his truth in the art of his creation. Everywhere, all about, in everything. He reached out to us through flesh and blood. Giving us his son, prophets, holy spirit, the word and the book. To be human.

    The devil uses gods empathy and twists it to be used for enslavement.
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:33 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I never sense much love in connection with Apocalyptic-Salvation.


    Now death is one of those facts of life and nobody knows how's that like. Sure there are ideas and opinions but the biblical one is that our souls survive. Or in other words is just the physical body that dies. Where will our souls be ?

    What is called the Apocalypse is the end of the world as we know it much like how the people at the time of Noah must have felt. God do not tolerate evil forever and when evil is world wide God go on the offensive. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:54 pm

    Consider [John through Revelation] as being the answer to [Genesis through Esther]. Consider [Job through Luke] as being an independently complete-unit. Just give this a try-out. I'm not dogmatic about this -- but it seems to make sense. I'm presently leaning toward Prophets and Kings by Ellen White as being the Best of All of the Above -- but this probably has a lot to do with my background -- and I am certainly not a scholar. I'd fall flat on my face in a debate -- and probably in the Final-Judgment (which might end-up being a Mal Doran)!! I've witnessed some interesting changes and developments over the past several weeks (and especially over the weekend) which might somehow be indicative of something ominous -- but that's all I'm going to say about that. I just think that Mass-Murder (Commandment-Breaking) is not a rational-answer to Commandment-Breaking -- but what do I know?? What theology would emerge if one applied Grammatical-Historical Hermeneutics to Job through Luke (KJV)?? Here I stand (actually I'm sitting).


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:32 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote: I just think that Mass-Murder (Commandment-Breaking) is not a rational-answer to Commandment-Breaking -- but what do I know??


    Well we all die so our life on earth is not permanent but just a short sojourn. When we as a world fail to live by the rules not of men but God the Creator then it is over man.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:11 am

    Did God and God's Chosen People strictly observe the Ten-Commandments in the Old-Testament?? I keep getting the feeling that a significant aspect of the Galactic Powers That Be simply hate the Human-Race -- and will use any and all excuses to terminate Humanity. They don't seem to wish for Humanity to get it right -- and succeed as a civilization. It seems to be personal -- and without any love whatsoever. Sometimes I think that the SDA Church -- the Roman Catholic Church -- the Peale and Schuller Phenomenon -- should be studied in a calm and scholarly manner -- side by side -- without necessarily participating in any or all of the above. Obviously, there are probably very few people who are willing and/or capable of properly doing this -- but I think it should be done. All three concepts need to be refined and/or combined IMHO -- but obviously, this would create weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Secularism seems to be winning (in many ways) -- but if even that is done properly, it can be a blessing (in its own way). "The secular must become sacred -- and the sacred must become secular." Can anyone even begin to imagine what would happen if even the non-ceremonial aspects of the Torah were enforced upon modernity??!! BTW -- is the Sabbath commandment ceremonial, moral, or both?? Take a very careful and prayerful look at the Sabbath -- Post-Torah. One does not find the Ellen White approach to the Sabbath in Sacred Scripture. I think the Sabbath can be beneficial or harmful -- depending on the situation -- and I cannot fathom the Eternal-Destruction of anyone -- because they worked on the wrong day. I sometimes think that many Adventists secretly resent the Sabbath -- and secretly pray for the sun to go down faster on Sabbath afternoons!!


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:27 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Did God and God's Chosen People strictly observe the Ten-Commandments in the Old-Testament??


    Why did God choose the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (Israel) ? Because God would be born into that culture ! What was the purpose for God to become Man ? So God could overcome the devil death sin and evil on behalf of mankind !

    With Adam and Eve humanity fell from God and with Christ humans could be raised up to God again.

    Where are the souls of those who died before and after Christ ? Surely somewhere !


    After Christ there emerged Jews with the Spirit of God within them called Christians who began to convert the world to Christ. But the devil did not give up and his pack has been battling the flock ever since. Eventually the devil even got his wolves in sheep's clothing posing as Popes and subverted Christianity from the top.

    There is a time for everything and Christ who is God foretold in His book what would happen why and when.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:15 am

    I just get the feeling that the Creator of Humanity got removed in antiquity -- with someone else replacing them (who wasn't nearly as nice) -- and that they have run this solar system for thousands of years -- legitimately or illegitimately -- for better or worse -- I know not. I just think that ultimately governmental, religious, and business leaders all deal with the same CEO. Mythologies and Theologies can be created and destroyed with the stroke of a pen (or the click of a mouse). I think the hypothetical replacement CEO might be getting somewhat exposed -- and if so -- that they don't like it one little bit -- and might much rather fight than switch -- which could destroy all of us. I keep thinking that some sort of Galactic-Judgment of Humanity (and the Managers of Humanity) might occur over the next hundred years (or something like that). This thing might be a lot bigger than simply terminating a Problematic-Race. This whole mess might have Universal Implications and Ramifications.


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