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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:27 am

    I'm thinking that Matthew 5-7 and 23-25 are the most significant chapters in the New Testament. Are there any churches which strictly harmonize with these chapters?? What if they were originally one complete sermon?? I'm also wondering about Red-Letter passages which are sermon-like in nature (rather than short passages which are incidental to the narrative material)?? Perhaps these longer sermon-like Red-Letter passages could and should be combined into one complete sermon!! What if this might be the Gospel which is supposed to be preached throughout the whole world!! Albert Schweitzer said that Jesus had an eschatological worldview. Perhaps this proposed Red-Letter Sermon might be combined with the complete Book of Daniel -- as sort of a One--Two--Punch!! I continue to think that the Bible should be a Mental and Spiritual Gymnasium -- rather than a Dogmatic Instruction Manual. Likewise, I consider liturgical participation to be a Mental and Spiritual Exercise -- rather than being Sacramentally Redemptive. I continue leaning toward Liturgical-Conservatism and Theological-Liberalism. I'll never forget the Cross-Look Angela gave me when I expressed sympathy toward Contemporary Christian Music!! The scene in Constantine, where Angela talks to the priest, reminds me of my conversation with Angela -- in several ways. Her mother didn't like arguing -- and her father didn't like the Fratelli-Ruffatti at St. Mary's!! What Would KS Bach Say?? He actually said I should improvise -- and that after a while, sacred music started sounding alike!! One claiming to be an Ancient Egyptian Deity confirmed my suspicion that Sacred Classical Music was ancient -- but that Lucifer was not the source!! That's all I'm going to say about that!! At one time, I thought it might be cool if an experimental United States of the Solar System were to meet at St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco -- but I have since removed all ideas and proposals from an imaginary table. I presently do not anticipate playing-ball with anyone -- under any circumstances -- for at least the remainder of this incarnation -- and most likely not in my next incarnation either (if I even have a next incarnation). It has been strongly suggested to me that I won't have another incarnation -- and that I should write my memoirs. The Ancient Egyptian Deity said they were "tired of keeping me alive." These warm-fuzzy words brought me to tears!! "Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones -- but the Words of Ancient Egyptian Deities Might Damn My Soul to Hell for All Eternity!!" BTW -- I've always loved the music program at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco -- and that G. Donald Harrison Aeolian Skinner organ rocks!! But still -- I think they could use a French-Romantic Tracker-Action Flentrop, Fisk, or Reiger Pipe-Organ in the Rear-Balcony!! I'm a Tracker Backer!! The 18 Rank Cassavant was Rank and Bombastic in the Extreme!! What Would Richard Purvis Say?? What Would James Pike Say?? What Would Monseigneur Bowe Say?? It was cool attending organ concerts by Pierre Cochereau, Lynne Davis, and John Fenstermaker at Grace Cathedral. Nick Bowden did a nice job on BWV 565!!






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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:13 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Who is Jesus -- according to the Old Testament?? Where do I find Jesus in the Old Testament??


    Who is this wrestling man ?

    "Then Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. Now when he saw that he did not prevail against him, he touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was out of joint as he wrestled with him. And he said, 'Let me go, for the day breaks.' But he said, 'I will not let you go unless you bless me!' So he said to him, 'What is your name?' He said, 'Jacob.' And he said, 'Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.' Then Jacob asked, saying, 'Tell me your name, I pray.' And he said, 'Why is it that you ask about my name?' And he blessed him there. So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: 'For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" Genesis 32:24-30


    Who is this angel of Yĕhovah like a burning flame in the bush ?

    "And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.... Then He said, 'Do not draw near this place. Take off your sandals, for the place where you stand is holy ground.' Moreover He said, 'I am the God of your father — the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God." - Exodus 3:2,5-6


    Who is this captain of the host of Yĕhovah ?

    "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a man stood opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, 'Are you for us or for our adversaries?' So he said, 'Nay, but as captain of the host of Yĕhovah I have now come.' And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to him, 'What does my Lord say to His servant?' Then the captain of the host of Yĕhovah said to Joshua, 'Take off your sandals, for the place where you stand is holy ground.' And Joshua did so." - Joshua 5:13-15


    Who is this fire flying angel ?

    "And the angel of the LORD said to him, 'Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?' So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to Yĕhovah. And the angel did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on — it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar — the angel of Yĕhovah ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. When the angel of Yĕhovah appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that he was the angel of Yĕhovah. And Manoah said to his wife, 'We shall surely die, because we have seen God!'" - Judges 13:18-22


    Is he not Michael the only Archangel and so the form of God ?
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:05 am

    Thank-you Red. I think Michael is significant -- and I have been told that Michael was/is Jesus -- but I'm struggling with the Teachings Attributed to Jesus in relation to the Historical Jesus -- as well as the Experience of Jesus as Lord. I tend to relate the Teachings with Michael -- without necessarily equating Michael with the Historical Jesus and/or Jesus as Lord. The Historical Jesus -- and Jesus as Lord -- seem somewhat problematic to me presently. What if Michael is somehow being used and/or set-up for some nefarious purpose? I keep wondering why the Old-Testament was not Positively-Reinforced in the New-Testament?? Why did Michael need to be called "Jesus"?? Why not call Michael "Michael"?? Did Jesus need to become Lord to save us from our sins?? Why the elevation?? I've been modeling a Gabriel v Michael conflict regarding Physicality and Governance in this Solar System. I keep identifying Michael with Job through Malachi -- plus the Red-Letters in the Synoptic-Gospels. I keep identifying Gabriel with Genesis through Esther -- plus the Red-Letters in John -- plus the Black-Letters throughout the New Testament. I keep thinking in terms of Michael being deposed and exiled -- possibly by Gabriel. What if Malachi through Revelation were part of an overthrow??  What if the Entire Bible contains precious truth -- but that overall, it is monumentally deceptive?? What if Job through Malachi should somehow be read in the context of Ancient Babylon and Egypt?? I continue to speculate that somehow Michael and Humanity got cracked down upon shortly after the Creation of Humanity -- and that someone else took over this solar system at that time. This is mostly intuitive-speculation -- with very little scholarly substance. One mysterious individual called me 'Michael' -- and later asked me if I thought I were the one hanging on the cross in a crucifix?! I strongly resisted both suggestions -- but I would be more receptive to the first identification. Another mysterious individual called me 'King David' -- and I strongly resisted that suggestion as well. But I have since used my imagination to model various possibilities by taking these suggestions somewhat seriously. What if the Jesus-Story involves 'Becoming God' in some sort of a grand plot?? What is the documented role of God the Father in the Post-Resurrection World?? What is the Pre-Gospel Role of Jesus Christ?? I think there has been a HUGE amount of Religious-Deception. I continue to think in terms of the Corrupt Ruling the Stupid. I continue to wonder what reading Job through Malachi -- straight through -- over and over -- might yield?! In Daniel, Michael is referred to as 'One of the Chief Princes' -- but not as being 'God'. Again, it wouldn't surprise me if Michael wrote some of the Teachings Attributed to Jesus -- but I really don't think Michael was the Historical Jesus (as we know the Greatest Story Ever Told) -- and I don't think Michael became 'God' in the First-Century AD. I tend to think that the God of This World runs ALL the Churches -- and that they are ALL infiltrated, subverted, and corrupted. I am highly suspicious of the Canonization-Process. Something is Fishy regarding Christianity as We Know It. I'm not an atheist -- but I don't think we know the true story of our past. Not even close. I continue to be particularly interested in King David -- King Solomon -- and the Queen of Sheba. What if they have more to do with what's really been going on in this solar system (on a soul-basis) than we can possibly imagine?? Please don't take this post too seriously. I don't. This is mostly a most-dangerous guessing-game. I just think this universe might be filled with battling system-lords, who are mighty (but not almighty). Some of them might pretend to be 'almighty' -- but I doubt their claims. However, there is probably one of them who is Most-Mighty -- but I still would question an 'Almighty' claim!! Watch Dr. Who: The Trial of a Time Lord!! Then watch The Changeling (from the 1980's)!! Then connect the dots with this particular post!! I could be completely delusional -- but this is the sort of thing I'm presently modeling and whispering about!! Don't try this at home, kiddies!! What if there is more than one 'Christ'?? What if there is more than one 'Lucifer'?? I'm simply suggesting nasty power-struggles in antiquity and modernity -- combined with spiritual wickedness in high places!! This could be the ultimate 'Murder Mystery'!! Who  was 'The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World'?? Who is 'The God of This World'?? Is the 'God of Exodus' the 'Father in Heaven'??






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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:01 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote: Why did Michael need to be called "Jesus"?? Why not call Michael "Michael"??


    As you know Jacob was also known as Israel which means "struggle with God" while Michael means "who is like God" and he is the great sar or prince according to the angel Gabriel who is the only one mentioning Michael by name in the Old Testament.

    There are just two instances in the Bible where men are told to take off their sandals for standing on holy ground. Moses before Yĕhovah or I Am as a flaming fire at Mount Sinai and Joshua before the sar prince or captain of the Lord's host or angelic army before the conquest of the Promised Land. The latter one must be Michael "who is like God" and is the only one called an archangel in the New Testament.

    It is just about impossible to study the Bible and not come to the conclusion that Michael is Jesus or Yehoshua which means "I Am Saviour".

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:13 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. I'm not a scholar -- but regarding Jesus, Lucifer, Satan, the Archangels, the Angels, the Demons, and the Souls of Mankind -- I am very conflicted and suspicious. I think the Bible contains a lot of truth -- yet I think it's been massively tampered-with -- and then massively (and purposely?) misinterpreted and misapplied by the God and/or Goddess of this World (and their sold-out minions). This is just my present bias -- which I can't prove (because of lack of study and/or mental and spiritual challenges). I am amazed at the scarcity of biblical-references to all of the above. I have also come to suspect universe-wide power-struggles -- which includes our little solar system. Conquest is a dominant biblical-theme (especially in the Old Testament). I lean toward the material in Job through Matthew (as being Minimalist-Traditionalist Judeo-Christianity) -- and I suspect some sort of a New Testament Takeover regarding the concept and application of "Jesus as Lord". What's interesting to me is that the Bible-Writers seem to have "Turned Every One to His (and/or Her?) Own Way". I'm not seeing a simple, clear, and ethical Law of God (as it was in the beginning) which was built-upon and positively-reinforced (from the Garden of Eden right-through to Modernity). The whole theological, governmental, and judicial Earth situation has been an absolute mess. I'm almost seeking clean-sheet of stone approaches to theology, governance, and law -- which are based solidly on the Best of the Past and Present -- but achieving such a feat would probably be impossible (unless enacted by an Act of God). I'm presently looking at Prophets and Kings (by Ellen White) and The Federalist Papers (with the US Constitution) -- which might be decidedly Royal-Model and Ceremonially-Anglican. However, I suspect that directly imposing such an amalgamation of church and state would be disastrous -- so I am modeling this phenomenon in the context of a Post Investigative and Executive Judgment (2013 AD to 2133 AD?!) -- commencing in (or around) 2133 AD (as being a Minimalist-Traditionalist Benevolent-Theocracy) which features and maximizes Responsible-Freedom.

    Anyway -- imposing the Bible (in part or in whole) upon modernity would probably be a Recipe for Disaster. I think that Orion, the Hebrews, and Ancient Egypt might be Foundationally-Important -- yet setting-up a World-Government in Jerusalem -- and imposing the Torah upon the world -- with a Jewish Christ (and/or Antichrist) -- would probably ignite the Battle of Armageddon (or equivalent) which would destroy most (or all) human life on Earth. To me -- theology and governance are nightmares -- which I have placed in a science-fictional context -- so as to attempt positive and evolutionary reformations -- which do not blow all of us all the way to hell. What if just about everything is Deception and/or Delusion?? Consider "starting-over" every day -- taking nothing for granted. Also consider "running silent and deep" every day -- researching in a quiet and multidisciplinary manner. I haven't decided if we are too skeptical or too gullible. I haven't decided if we are too obedient or too insubordinate. I just think we should engage in "Possibility-Thinking" -- considering ALL Possibilities (and not just the positive ones). I think we should simultaneously be Proud and Humble (each and every day). I just think we need to Grapple with the Madness (each and every day). Consider studying History, Philosophy, Science, and Theology (without necessarily joining a church). I'm not anti-church. I just think that some of us should go the extra kilometer in researching the seemingly unthinkable and unknowable. Just don't expect this sort of thing to make you happy. Try not to be "too happy" or "too gloomy". Consider "Responsible-Neutrality". This whole thing is tricky-territory. Probably just about anything can be faked, lied-about, staged, and spun. An "Alien-Invasion" could be US v US. The "Second Coming of Christ" could probably be staged -- and Satan could probably fake being Jesus. I've frankly lost my faith and confidence in everyone and everything (including myself).


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:09 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:However, I suspect that directly imposing such an amalgamation of church and state would be disastrous -- so I am modeling this phenomenon in the context of a Post Investigative and Executive Judgment (2013 AD to 2133 AD?!) -- commencing in (or around) 2133 AD (as being a Minimalist-Traditionalist Benevolent-Theocracy) which features and maximizes Responsible-Freedom.


    I'm afraid we are out of that luxury called time. According to the angel Gabriel and the interpretation of Newton and me we got about one year left before the 70th and last week of Daniel seven years of Apocalypse as elucidated in the last book of the Bible.

    There is always I guess the possibility that Newton was wrong but I would not even bet monopoly money on that.



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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:28 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. Regarding Isaac Newton and the End of the World -- according to Wikipedia -- In a manuscript he wrote in 1704 in which he describes his attempts to extract scientific information from the Bible, he estimated that the world would end no earlier than 2060. In predicting this he said, "This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fanciful men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, and by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail." I'm tending to place more weight on Daniel and Matthew -- than upon the Book of Revelation (which is SO out of character with the rest of the New Testament -- or even the Old Testament). The diabolical-violence in Revelation is truly horrifying and disillusioning to me. Why is Biblical-Violence so easily and readily swept under the rug -- while the Crusades, the Inquisition, Hitler, and Stalin are condemned?! I understand the necessity of a Pre-Advent Judgment -- but I do not understand a Lawless-Apocalypse. I continue to inquire regarding the definitive-interpretation of Daniel 7-12 and Matthew 5-7, 23-25 (especially regarding the End of the World -- as we know it).


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:24 am

    Here is the biblical code concerning the coming of Christ or Messiah given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel who stands in the presence of God.

    "Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks" - Daniel 9:25


    Newton wrote that Christ would come 49 years after the Jews restored Jerusalem. Now that is no longer in some distant future but at the door.


    http://archive.org/stream/sirisaacnewtonsd00newtiala/sirisaacnewtonsd00newtiala_djvu.txt
    Full text of "Sir Isaac Newton's Daniel and the Apocalypse; with an introductory study of the nature and the cause of unbelief, of miracles and prophecy"

    Newton wrote:, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were JEWISH weeks, ending with sabbatical years ; so the seven weeks are the compass of a JUBILEE, and begin and end with actions proper for a JUBILEE, and of the highest nature for which a JUBILEE can be kept : and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years ;



    orthodoxymoron wrote:The diabolical-violence in Revelation is truly horrifying and disillusioning to me. Why is Biblical-Violence so easily and readily swept under the rug

    Well what to do with a world who is at enmity with God ? God got some simple house rules like do not kill lie cheat and steal etc so what do the world do ?

    Once the world was renewed by water. This time it is by fire.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:00 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. Notice how many times the Ten-Commandments were broken in the first seventeen books of the Old-Testament (including God breaking the Ten-Commandments) -- and how many times they will be broken if and when the Book of Revelation is inflicted upon Humanity by a God of Love. There is endless conquest in the Old-Testament -- which seemed to involve coveting, killing, stealing, adultery -- and certainly not "Loving Neighbor as Self" or "Doing Unto Others as One Would Wish to be Done Unto". The Book of Revelation seems to be saying "You Evil and Stupid Humans are a Bunch of Commandment-Breakers -- so I'm Going to Torture and Kill Most of You -- to Restore Law and Order in the Universe." What's Wrong With This Picture?? Am I just some angry rebel -- or do I still have some semblance of a moral-compass?? It seems as if the great goal of the Galactic Powers That Be is to teach the universe an unforgettable lesson by misusing, abusing, and exterminating Humanity. The problem is (as I presently see it) Humanity has done better than expected (which has created a leadership-crisis of some sort). My bias is to rack this madness up to a "learning-experience" -- and just move-on -- with the proper Management of Humanity (in harmony with the rest of the universe). Some of the souls in this solar system might have to go to jail for a very long time (possibly including me) -- but this Physical and Soul Torture and Extermination Madness is Insane (at least from my present Human-Perspective). I don't know who I really am -- or what I've really done -- on a soul-basis -- going way, way, way back -- but I'm just calling things as I see them presently -- without cowering at the feet of a seemingly mean and nasty god. How much "Religious-Devotion" is nothing but "Fear and Terror"?? I understand Open and Righteous Final Judgments -- but the ethical standards seem reprehensible -- and the punishments seem cruel and unusual. It seems as if Humanity CANNOT be allowed to succeed. It seems as if Divinity has worked hard (for thousands of years) to make sure Humanity would NOT succeed. Please read The Gods of Eden by William Bramley -- and The Great Controversy by Ellen White -- for truly heartbreaking accounts of the Conflict of the Ages. Does Michael have to authorize the Final Torture and Extermination of Humanity for it to actually occur?? I keep getting that impression. And really -- all of my rambling, ranting, and raving is just venting and speculation. I am NOT a scholar. Not even close. What if the Final Judgment involves the Whole Universe -- and not simply Earth-Humanity??


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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:02 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:The Book of Revelation seems to be saying "You Evil and Stupid Humans are a Bunch of Commandment-Breakers -- so I'm Going to Torture and Kill Most of You -- to Restore Law and Order in the Universe."


    Well we can't work on Sabbaths but we do don't we ? We work on Sabbaths man so God is gonna uppercut this earth until it wobbles like a drunkard on a Saturday night. The gloves are off and who's the boss is on. God is gonna throw punches left and right kicking and screaming until last man standing.

    So God exterminated criminals like insects. You got a problem with that ? Because guess what... God is about to do it again !


    This human problem with God of the Bible stems from egos the size of small planets from people who think they are better than God. Personally I think it is tiresome and apparently God is fed up as well.

    When the world expects to carry on while aborting children killing innocents corrupting souls and living like animals then the world is inhabited with criminals who will be crushed like bugs.

    If you don't sigh and groan over all the abomination going on then God is gonna cut you down man.




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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:02 pm

    I can feel the love RedEzra. God's Love, I presume. I would assume that anyone who does not perfectly observe every word of the Torah will be tortured and murdered by a God of Love. Is that correct -- or did I get it wrong?? How many people on Earth observe every word of the Torah in modernity (perfectly or otherwise)?? I grew-up in a tradition which cherry-picks the Bible (especially the Old-Testament). The dishonesty and moral-ambiguity of religion and the religious (historically and presently) sickens and saddens me. I'm still waiting for a convincing interpretation of Daniel 7-12 and Matthew 5-7, 23-25. I get the feeling I'll be waiting for a very long time. I'm VERY unhappy with the state of the world (historically and presently) -- but I seek a proper legal process (which carefully examines both the Managers and the Managed) -- with reasonable and rational rewards and punishments (for ALL concerned). Given the proper training and conditioning -- I think I could be a Hard-Core Law and Order Kind of Guy (on micro and macro levels). Perhaps at some time in the ancient-past I WAS (even though I'm presently nothing more than a completely ignorant fool). I continue to be somewhat serious about being some sort of a Behind the Scenes Guy (living in a 600 square-foot office-apartment with a supercomputer and the InterPlaNet). I'd probably mostly watch stuff like this:



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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:28 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I would assume that anyone who does not perfectly observe every word of the Torah will be tortured and murdered by a God of Love. Is that correct -- or did I get it wrong??


    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

    Here is the rope of hope before death and destruction. So if one feels the world is well then what is coming according to the Apocalypse will come as a shock.

    Jesus is God the Creator and our Maker and paid the prize for our failure as human beings made in His image. So the Son of God was already tortured and murdered by a God of Love for us failures.

    You and me and everybody else ought to be on that cross and not God the Creator and our Maker but God covered for us out of Love. If we reject that free gift then we will die in our own sins. In other words our own crimes will condemn us to hell.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:40 am

    Thank-you RedEzra. I keep getting the sinking-feeling that nearly all of the theologies are covers for a much darker and deeper theological-reality. It wouldn't surprise me if Michael were somehow involved in the Genetic-Engineering of the Human-Being -- that this activity was somehow frowned-upon and/or forbidden by the Galactic Powers That Be -- and that Michael was executed or exiled by the PTB for this rebellious action. Consider Psalm 139:15. What (and Who) is Revelation 13:8 referring to -- regarding "The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World"??

    Psalm 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  

    It wouldn't surprise me if the Mithras and Jesus stories were based upon what occurred shortly following the creation of mankind. Ralph Ellis has hinted that there was a central-ritual in Ancient-Egypt which evolved into the Christian rituals we see today. I hope I got that right -- but that was my impression. The Psalms through Isaiah seem to reveal a God who is entirely capable and willing to forgive sins (without the torture and murder of Michael -- One of the Chief Princes). The Christian theology I grew-up with presented Salvation through Faith in the Shed-Blood of the Perfect-Sacrifice (Jesus Christ) BUT that we still had to obey the Law of God (stated as being the Ten-Commandments) -- and that the Law would have to be perfectly-obeyed just before the Second-Coming of Christ (at which time we would Stand Before a Holy-God -- Without a Mediator). But we were told that we couldn't obey the Law in our own strength (because of our Fallen-Sinful Human-Nature) -- so Christ had to do it for us (via Imputed and Imparted Righteousness). Listen to Sherry Shriner's 7-7-14 show (mostly regarding Pauline Christian Theology). http://sherrytalkradio.com/ I don't necessarily agree with this -- but I found it quite interesting. I keep getting the overwhelming impression that the Galactic Powers That Be wish to Terminate the Human-Experiment rather than Modifying the Management of Humanity -- Such That Purgatory Incorporated Might Become Paradise Incorporated. This whole thing seems "Personal" -- "Precedent-Setting" -- and "Potentially Universe-Destabilizing". It seems "Expedient That Mankind Perish" rather than just targeting the Truly Morally-Reprehensible Monsters (Human and Otherwise). I'm sensing very little love from Humanity or Divinity. The Whole Thing Stinks (from where I'm sitting, anyway).
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you Red. I think Michael is significant -- and I have been told that Michael was/is Jesus -- but I'm struggling with the Teachings Attributed to Jesus in relation to the Historical Jesus -- as well as the Experience of Jesus as Lord. I tend to relate the Teachings with Michael -- without necessarily equating Michael with the Historical Jesus and/or Jesus as Lord. The Historical Jesus -- and Jesus as Lord -- seem somewhat problematic to me presently. What if Michael is somehow being used and/or set-up for some nefarious purpose? I keep wondering why the Old-Testament was not Positively-Reinforced in the New-Testament?? Why did Michael need to be called "Jesus"?? Why not call Michael "Michael"?? Did Jesus need to become Lord to save us from our sins?? Why the elevation?? I've been modeling a Gabriel v Michael conflict regarding Physicality and Governance in this Solar System. I keep identifying Michael with Job through Malachi -- plus the Red-Letters in the Synoptic-Gospels. I keep identifying Gabriel with Genesis through Esther -- plus the Red-Letters in John -- plus the Black-Letters throughout the New Testament. I keep thinking in terms of Michael being deposed and exiled -- possibly by Gabriel. What if Malachi through Revelation were part of an overthrow??  What if the Entire Bible contains precious truth -- but that overall, it is monumentally deceptive?? What if Job through Malachi should somehow be read in the context of Ancient Babylon and Egypt?? I continue to speculate that somehow Michael and Humanity got cracked down upon shortly after the Creation of Humanity -- and that someone else took over this solar system at that time. This is mostly intuitive-speculation -- with very little scholarly substance. One mysterious individual called me 'Michael' -- and later asked me if I thought I were the one hanging on the cross in a crucifix?! I strongly resisted both suggestions -- but I would be more receptive to the first identification. Another mysterious individual called me 'King David' -- and I strongly resisted that suggestion as well. But I have since used my imagination to model various possibilities by taking these suggestions somewhat seriously. What if the Jesus-Story involves 'Becoming God' in some sort of a grand plot?? What is the documented role of God the Father in the Post-Resurrection World?? What is the Pre-Gospel Role of Jesus Christ?? I think there has been a HUGE amount of Religious-Deception. I continue to think in terms of the Corrupt Ruling the Stupid. I continue to wonder what reading Job through Malachi -- straight through -- over and over -- might yield?! In Daniel, Michael is referred to as 'One of the Chief Princes' -- but not as being 'God'. Again, it wouldn't surprise me if Michael wrote some of the Teachings Attributed to Jesus -- but I really don't think Michael was the Historical Jesus (as we know the Greatest Story Ever Told) -- and I don't think Michael became 'God' in the First-Century AD. I tend to think that the God of This World runs ALL the Churches -- and that they are ALL infiltrated, subverted, and corrupted. I am highly suspicious of the Scripture-Canonization Process. Something is Fishy regarding Christianity as We Know It. I'm not an atheist -- but I don't think we know the true story of our past. Not even close. I continue to be particularly interested in King David -- King Solomon -- and the Queen of Sheba. What if they have more to do with what's really been going on in this solar system (on a soul-basis) than we can possibly imagine?? Please don't take this post too seriously. I don't. This is mostly a most-dangerous guessing-game. I just think this universe might be filled with battling system-lords, who are mighty (but not almighty). Some of them might pretend to be 'almighty' -- but I doubt their claims. However, there is probably one of them who is Most-Mighty -- but I still would question an 'Almighty' claim!! Watch Dr. Who: The Trial of a Time Lord!! Then watch The Changeling (from the 1980's)!! Then connect the dots with this particular post!! I could be completely delusional -- but this is the sort of thing I'm presently modeling and whispering about!! Don't try this at home, kiddies!! What if there is more than one 'Christ'?? What if there is more than one 'Lucifer'?? I'm simply suggesting nasty power-struggles in antiquity and modernity -- combined with spiritual wickedness in high places!! This could be the ultimate 'Murder Mystery'!! Who  was 'The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World'?? Who is 'The God of This World'?? Is the 'God of Exodus' the 'Father in Heaven'??






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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:53 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:What (and Who) is Revelation 13:8 referring to -- regarding "The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World"??


    That is Jesus our Creator who atoned for the crimes of every human being past present and future so we would not go to hell like the fallen angels and their children the demons or terrestrial spirits.

    The way to show love and respect to our Creator is to obey His laws.

    "If you love me, keep my commandments." - John 14:15
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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:18 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. Revelation 13:8 seems to be referring to an execution (of Michael?) occurring shortly following the Creation (and not 2,000 years ago). I think we need to take a very careful look at the following three biblical-groupings:

    1. Genesis through Esther -- Plus the Book of Revelation.
    2. Job through Malachi.
    3. Matthew through Jude.

    I would suggest that the second and third groups do not harmonize with the first group. I would further suggest that the second and third groups are representative of two different methodologies of moving away from the first group. The Ten-Commandments seem to be repeatedly broken by God and God's Chosen People (throughout the first group). It has been hinted to me (by a significant individual of interest) that they wish to see the sacrificial-system reinstituted -- and the world ruled from Jerusalem (by the Messiah?) -- but I won't say any more about that. I will say that I think it might be impossible to embrace the Ten-Commandments (using the Torah as their source and support) without embracing ALL of the first group (in every detail). I'm actually suggesting that serious students wage an internal war between these three groups. It's a nasty battle (to say the least). I get the feeling that Divinity is Angelic, Obedient, Harsh, and Traditional (and all about Conquest, Enslavement, and Exploitation) -- and that Humanity is Dishonest, Disobedient, Shallow, and Irresponsible (and all about Instant Gratification). I am frankly attracted to the following three sources (as an alternative to the three biblical groupings):

    1. Prophets and Kings by Ellen White.
    2. Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing by Ellen White.
    3. Christ's Object Lessons by Ellen White.

    With these three sources in the context of:

    1. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer (and Liturgy).
    2. Sacred Classical Music.
    3. The Federalist Papers (with the US Constitution).

    Further -- I am strangely interested in the 1963 movie Cleopatra -- with these six sources clearly in mind. I think this approach still misses the mark of my political and theological idealism -- but that it might be a step in the right direction. The whole religious, political, and business situation (past and present) makes me sick. I get the feeling that Divinity just can't wait to Exterminate Humanity -- and that Humanity just can't wait for their Next Paycheck and Sexual-Encounter. I frankly don't seem to harmonize with Divinity or Humanity. Is there a Kinder, Gentler, and More Responsible Option somewhere in this Universe??


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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:51 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Revelation 13:8 seems to be referring to an execution (of Michael?) occurring shortly following the Creation (and not 2,000 years ago).


    Before God flung the universe into existence important events like for example the execution of the Son to pay the prize for human crimes were preplanned and so happened at the exact appointed time  as "the Star of Bethlehem" presentation by FA Larson shows.

    Another preplanned event which will happen right on time down to the very hour is the release of the four angels bound up at Euphrates.

    And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. - Revelation 9:15


    orthodoxymoron wrote:The Ten-Commandments seem to be repeatedly broken by God and God's Chosen People (throughout the first group).

    God got laws so when people break them God got to punish them. There is no good or bad karma but a just God who repays according to deeds. Bad deeds are bad because they break the laws of God and good deds are good because they keep the laws of God. Besides there was a general Nephilim problem also in Canaan serpent seed huge giant human angelic hybrids.

    When the Jews broke the laws then God used the likes of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon to destroy them. So there is equal opportunity to get punished by God for breaking His laws.

    The laws are hard like love God respect parents do not kill lie cheat and steal etc but it will be much harder not to keep them. God will see to it.


    orthodoxymoron wrote:I get the feeling that Divinity just can't wait to Exterminate Humanity --

    If so then God would not send the Son our Creator to cover for our crimes. Jesus got our forgiveness so go on repent and ask Him to guide and guard you. Read His words pray communicate worship after all He is worthy of all glory and honour.

    ---


    Death is inevitable. Our physical bodies will die in one way or the other weather by God nature man beasts etc. But the soul is immortal until God deconstructs it.
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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:41 am

    Why is the POTUS and the chief of CIA Muslims ?

    Well forget why but do you get the implications of this ? Do you understand what is going on and what is about to happen ? Who is going to protect the Jews and Christians when the power of the West is occupied by Muslims ?



    Montage Footage of Barack Obama on His Muslim Faith



    Obama advisor John Brennan speaks about the beauty of Islam
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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:53 am

    Thank-you RedEzra. I just think that most of us might not like the Real-God and the Real-History. I'm beginning to think that both might be a lot tougher and nastier than we can imagine. As far as the Religious-Conflict-Thing goes -- it just seems as if the Solar System CEO orchestrates this sort of thing (for better or worse -- on a grand-scale) and that it's all designed to keep us under control -- and to teach us (here and elsewhere) a Great Big Lesson. "Despise NOT the Chastenings of the Lord?!"


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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:26 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:As far as the Religious-Conflict-Thing goes -- it just seems as if the Solar System CEO orchestrates this sort of thing (for better or worse -- on a grand-scale) and that it's all designed to keep us under control -- and to teach us (here and elsewhere) a Great Big Lesson.


    Is just the devil and his demons and the people who worship them who have successfully corrupted humanity. The devil and his demons are beyond redemption but there is still little time for the worst of us to come to Christ before the righteous rage of God upon a wicked world.
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    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:01 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. Genesis through Esther -- and the Book of Revelation -- describes some rather sinister, diabolical, violent, and merciless acts attributed to God. Job through Malachi is still often harsh -- but much more subdued and refined. Matthew through Jude is much kinder and gentler. What if Israel = Isis -- Ra -- El?? If so -- what if:

    1. Genesis through Esther -- and the Book of Revelation -- are Predominantly "Amen-Ra" in nature??
    2. Job through Malachi -- are Predominantly "Isis" in nature??
    3. Matthew through Jude -- are Predominantly "El" in nature??

    What if "Jesus" approximates "Isis" in the Greek?? What if the "Teachings of Jesus" are the "Teachings of Isis"?! What if the New-Testament Black-Letters are Predominantly "El" (and possibly "Ra") in nature?? What if "El" is the New-Testament Version of the Old-Testament "Ra"?! Notice how the prayers are ended in the Book of Common Prayer!! What if Isis ran things in the solar system in the very beginning -- but was quickly deposed (and/or murdered) by Ra?! What if a "Real-Jesus" would never have been able to get away with what The Greatest Story Ever Told describes Him as saying and doing??!! What if there is a Real-Deity behind a Fictional-Deity?! Consider carefully the work of Gerald Massey -- Ralph Ellis -- Hugh Schonfield -- Albert Schweitzer -- et al. Once again, consider the 7-7-14 show by Sherry Shriner. http://sherrytalkradio.com/ I think that an internal mental and spiritual battle between the three biblical-groupings (and Deities?!) shown above -- might be MOST enlightening!! I'm simply attempting to understand how this thing has Really Played Out!! One More Thing. Consider reading Preparation for the Final Crisis by Fernando Chaij -- and Trumpet After Trumpet by Erwin R. Gane. The Lucifer Diary by Lewis Walton is exceptional!! Sometimes I wonder who REALLY wrote that book!! It doesn't sound like Attorney Walton at all!!


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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:59 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Genesis through Esther -- and the Book of Revelation -- describes some rather sinister, diabolical, violent, and merciless acts attributed to God.

    No it doesn't. It describes a just God who do not tolerate evil forever.


    orthodoxymoron wrote:What if Israel = Isis -- Ra -- El??

    No it isn't. Israel means "struggle with God" and was the name given to Jacob when wrestling an angel of God.


    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    What if "Jesus" approximates "Isis" in the Greek??

    Are you getting paid to sprout this shite ?
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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:44 pm

    See we got all these religions ideologies or philosophies but where is the evidence ? Where is the evidence for the truthfulness of your particular brand of religion ideology or philosophy ?

    How do you know that you do not believe a lie ? What evidence do you got to back up your beliefs ?

    The reason we got all these religions ideologies or philosophies in the first place is because people are not interested in evidence. They choose to base their beliefs on what resonates or is beneficial for them in one way or the other.

    It is easy to present evidence for the truthfulness of the Bible but since people do not like that or are born into another culture then they choose convenience or tradition and so forgo and forget that they ought to get evidence to back up their beliefs.

    If you don't require hard core evidence for your particular brand of beliefs then guess who's gonna take you for a spin on the highway to hell !
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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:08 am

    No, RedEzra, I don't get paid to think outside of the box -- but I wish I did. It seems that one is screwed -- no matter what they say and do -- or don't say and do. There's always some way to portray just about anyone as being a Vile-Sinner (Outside of God's Grace). There's always a way to argue like a lawyer against those one despises. Religion is never really happy -- and it never really resolves. I think I might read Genesis through Esther -- and the Book of Revelation -- over and over and over -- to determine what True Love and Morality Really Are. Then I might study the Crusades and the Inquisition to learn from Compassion in Action (Exemplifying the Love of Christ). If one does not demand evidence to back-up their beliefs -- they are often called "gullible and stupid". If they demand evidence -- they are often called "infidels and rebels". I'm simply conducting a Moot Mental and Spiritual War (in a Science-Fictional Context). When the Sanctuary is Cleansed, Vindicated, and Restored to It's Rightful State -- We Might Be Surprised By Who and What Gets Taken Out With the Trash -- but I certainly don't know how this madness is really going to play out. I wonder what might happen if and when a civilization refuses to tolerate Angry and Jealous Evil-Deities?? I can sort of understand Historical Learning-Experiences -- but shouldn't we all grow-up and be Big Boys and Girls in Modernity??






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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:53 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I wonder what might happen if and when a civilization refuses to tolerate Angry and Jealous Evil-Deities??

    History shows that all the old cultures of the world were polytheistic serving their gods with war human sacrifice and fertility cults.

    Along comes Abraham the tenth from Noah and burnt the idol workshop of his father who was in the business of making little figurines or representations of household gods.

    Who were these gods ? They are still around posing as ghosts or souls of dead people. But who are they ? Who was that "Lam" of Aleister Crowley or "Moroni" of Joseph Smith or "Jibril" of Muhammad ? Who are these gods instigating religions ideologies or philosophies ?

    What a mess ! The gods got us into these different religions and sit back and watch us fight and die. Is there no end to this madness ?

    Back to Abraham who would not submit to these gods got the attention of God with a capital G. God basically told Abraham since he did not submit to them that He would be God to him and his descendants and that God would provide both land and laws to them. But the cup of the sins of the Canaanites was not yet filled to the brim so it would take 400 years before God would lead the Israelites into Canaan from Egypt where Israel grandson of Abraham went because of a famine.

    Moses got the Torah on Mount Sinai and so the laws of God and the Genesis account of our origins were given to a people descended from Abraham who would not submit to these so called gods of old unlike our first parents and most of their children.

    And this is the crux of the human problem ever since. Who do you serve ? For example Freemasonry who got members in the most powerful positions in the world serve Lucifer so I hope you understand that there is no turning back from here. It will not get better but worse until God steps in and ends this evil.

    So how does Jesus fit into all this ? According to God in the Genesis account God will send someone to redeem humanity from the devil sin and evil. Someone who will take the blame for our crimes and so cover for us. In other words it doesn't matter what wrong we have done to God each other's and ourselves as it is forgiven in Jesus.

    Now without Jesus we will have to stand alone before a holy God with our own crimes.
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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:24 pm

    Thank-you RedEzra. I'm still leaning toward the theory that the Creator (of Humanity, at least) set things up in a MOST Excellent Manner -- but that there was some sort of a War and Takeover of this Solar System in Antiquity (with the Creator being completely removed via Exile and/or Execution). The Torah (To-Ra??) reads more like a Crackdown (than the Perfect Law of the Lord). History seems extremely Harsh and Deceptive. Something is VERY Wrong -- or so it seems to me. I lean toward Job through Matthew (as sort of a Middle-Way Theology) -- but this is only the first step in the formulation of Convincing and Effective Governance and Devotional Methodologies in Modernity. I think we really need to Be Good -- rather than simply being Declared Good by virtue of the Human-Sacrifice of Jesus Christ (complete with Eating His Flesh and Drinking His Blood in Symbolic-Rituals). I'm frankly burned-out mentally and spiritually -- and right now I think I'd prefer to just watch something like this!!



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