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    The University of Solar System Studies


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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed May 01, 2013 11:47 pm

    A relative of mine had a bad fall. They were badly bruised -- but no broken bones. What troubles me particularly is that they felt as if they had been pushed. They didn't suggest that they had been pushed -- but it just felt that way to them. This happened at approximately the same time as someone was snooping around my house. Plus, my computer has been acting funny lately. Is something a brewing?? I suspect that anyone who is not 'morally-bankrupt' will be cracked-down upon in the near-future -- but defining 'morally-bankrupt' might require another Vatican Council. That's all I'm going to say about that.

    What if a United States of the Solar System were essentially a big-business -- where appearances were everything -- and the bottom-line were the bottom-line -- such that everyone ultimately benefitted equally?? I'm not suggesting no competition -- just responsible and compassionate competition. Business doesn't have to be bad -- does it?? If appearances are appealing (inside and outside) -- that isn't so bad -- is it?? No pollution. No war. No poverty. No starvation. No terrorism. Get the picture?? If the bottom-line is maximized for everyone -- that isn't so bad -- is it?? A Solar System Supreme Court of Two-Hundred Super-Justices wouldn't be so bad -- would it?? Ten-Thousand Solar System Representatives with PhD's in Solar System Governance wouldn't be so bad -- would it?? Mind you -- my internet posting has mostly been spontaneous and impulsive -- with no coaching or research-teams. I have modeled contrarian-concepts to make all of us think about the most important subjects imaginable -- yet I have experienced a very cool (and even cold) reception (on the internet and in real-life). I haven't been kidding about the physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional trauma I have experienced (seemingly as a result of my internet activities).

    My plans are to just finish transferring most of the other USSS thread to this one -- and do some minor editing and commenting. When I finish -- I MIGHT try to write a somewhat unrelated science-fiction book -- but I don't know about that. I've previously requested that those in the know might somehow interact with what I've posted -- resulting in some sort of a book -- or something. I've stated that I simply don't know how sensitive this stuff really is -- and I don't know how close to the mark I've been. I don't know about timing, publishing, marketing, etc, etc, etc. I'd really like to see some of this stuff in some sort of a sci-fi series -- if and only if it were done properly -- which is probably an impossibility. I'd obviously like to make a buck -- but not a fast-buck -- if you know what I mean. I've stated that most of any profit should go to worthy charity -- and I mean it.

    This stuff is really scaring me -- and wearing me out. I might take a break for a week or two -- but I'm not sure. I just want to finish the transfer thing -- leave it at that -- and just move on. This angelic and archangelic thing is really creeping me out. The implications, ramifications, and possibilities are too much for me to contemplate -- and I certainly do not wish to end-up in the Bethesda Naval Hospital -- if you know what I mean. It's been a somewhat wild and fun ride -- but it probably needs to end. I think I just need to let things settle -- while I watch. I continue to be wary of 'disclosure', 'regime-change', 'reset', 'waking people up', etc, etc, etc. Over-correction could screw us worse than no-correction. I'm very suspicious of everyone and everything -- especially at the highest-levels. I think everyone is corruptible -- including me. I don't trust myself. Hell, I don't even like myself. I don't seem to be alone in this regard. Perhaps it really is time for me to move on -- and beyond -- if you know what I mean.

    What if the gods you have been serving for thousands of years hate me -- and hate you?? I don't absolutely know this to be the case -- but it's certainly something worth considering very carefully. Consider watching the movies John Hus and Martin Luther. Consider the words to Martin Luther's A Mighty Fortress. On the other hand -- there might not be a damn thing anyone can do about it -- whether anyone likes the way things are -- or not. I'm not fundamentally hostile or rebellious toward authority and/or divinity -- but I've got a bad taste in my mouth regarding how things work in the world -- and I can't imagine that the gods and goddesses are powerless to properly deal with how bad things often are. My current theory is that things are the way they are because they are intended to be that way -- by the powers that be -- at the highest levels. There might be legitimate reasons for the madness -- or simply rationalizations and excuses by the mad. What factors might cause one to be angry, jealous, and vengeful?? I'm not being sarcastic. I really don't think we understand the underlying factors regarding why things are the way they are -- going way, way, way back into antiquity.

    A mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing;
    Our helper He, amid the flood of mortal ills prevailing:
    For still our ancient foe doth seek to work us woe;
    His craft and power are great, and, armed with cruel hate,
    On earth is not his equal.

    Did we in our own strength confide, our striving would be losing;
    Were not the right Man on our side, the Man of God’s own choosing:
    Dost ask who that may be? Christ Jesus, it is He;
    Lord Sabaoth, His Name, from age to age the same,
    And He must win the battle.

    And though this world, with devils filled, should threaten to undo us,
    We will not fear, for God hath willed His truth to triumph through us:
    The Prince of Darkness grim, we tremble not for him;
    His rage we can endure, for lo, his doom is sure,
    One little word shall fell him.

    That word above all earthly powers, no thanks to them, abideth;
    The Spirit and the gifts are ours through Him Who with us sideth:
    Let goods and kindred go, this mortal life also;
    The body they may kill: God’s truth abideth still,
    His kingdom is forever.

    Alternate translation:

    A mighty fortress is our God, a trusty shield and weapon;
    He helps us free from every need that hath us now overtaken.
    The old evil foe now means deadly woe; deep guile and great might
    Are his dread arms in fight; on Earth is not his equal.

    With might of ours can naught be done, soon were our loss effected;
    But for us fights the Valiant One, whom God Himself elected.
    Ask ye, who is this? Jesus Christ it is.
    Of Sabbath Lord, and there’s none other God;
    He holds the field forever.

    Though devils all the world should fill, all eager to devour us.
    We tremble not, we fear no ill, they shall not overpower us.
    This world’s prince may still scowl fierce as he will,
    He can harm us none, he’s judged; the deed is done;
    One little word can fell him.

    The Word they still shall let remain nor any thanks have for it;
    He’s by our side upon the plain with His good gifts and Spirit.
    And take they our life, goods, fame, child and wife,
    Let these all be gone, they yet have nothing won;
    The Kingdom ours remaineth.

    It has been suggested by more than one Friend of Job that I am possessed. I could just feel the love emanating from within these helpful souls. I wonder who might've suggested this to them?? I certainly gave no evidence of such a state of being. I'm frankly sick and tired of the little Secret Agent Network of Family and Friends of Those in the Know. You don't deceive me one little bit -- and you certainly do not impress me. I intended to be helpful and solution-oriented -- but you all have caused me to have somewhat of a change of heart. I'll go through the motions by completing the transfer and editing of this thread -- and then I think I might simply prefer to watch and learn -- without saying or doing anything whatsoever. I have NEVER done anything which might invite possession. EVER. On the other hand -- I think I have REALLY angered the Solar System Powers That Be (of all factions) -- and I truly believe that I have been supernaturally targeted -- to reign me in -- and to teach me a lesson. One should be satisfied, compliant, and contrite regarding where they have been placed in life -- right?? As rebellious souls seek to rise in life -- they are systematically beaten back down -- sort of like cutting down the tall-grass with a machete. Despite my speculation and modeling -- I simply wish for things to make sense -- and to work out well for all concerned.

    I've identified with Michael in my modeling -- but I really don't think that's who I am on a soul (or reincarnational) basis. I've also been somewhat accusatory and critical of Lucifer (and even Gabriel) but I certainly do not know the inside-story. I continue to suspect that Michael got deposed and demoted in the Garden of Eden -- and that Lucifer has been ruling Earth as the God of This World -- taking orders from Gabriel (who I speculate might rule from beyond this world -- possibly as the Queen of Heaven -- but I truly don't know what the truth is in this regard). The standard answers simply stopped making sense to me. You can fool all of the people some of the time -- including Completely Ignorant Fools -- but sooner or later they ask one too many questions -- and the house of cards begins to collapse. I've played along for decades -- and in many respects I still play along. I go way out of my way to NOT be a problem -- even if it doesn't seem like it. You really would not wish to witness me going out of my way to be a problem. It certainly would NOT be a pretty sight.

    In Earth: Final Conflict what if Majel is the equivalent of Michael?? What Would Majel Roddenberry Say?? What if Zo'or is the equivalent of Gabriel?? What if Da'an is the equivalent of Lucifer?? What if Majel got deposed by Zo'or and Da'an (even though the script doesn't read quite that way)?? Please try to integrate the theological perspectives I've suggested into the science-fiction programs I've identified. This helps to make up for a decided lack of theological discourse and discussion in Hollywood productions. Da'an seems to be sort of a mediator between Zo'or and Humanity. Think about it. But remember the episode with the crazy prisoner who was programmed to destroy threats to humanity -- and he was trying to kill Da'an!!! Also, remember the suprise ending in Angels and Demons -- especially regarding the Camerlengo. Things aren't always what they seem.

    In fact, what if ALL of the present Earth Humanity rebelled against their Creator in the Garden of Eden?? What if ALL of the Human Beings who were loyal to God are living on another planet (or planets)?? What if there will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth when a Rebellious Earth Humanity sees what Those Who Were Loyal to God got??!! What if VERY FEW Earth Humans will be able to enter into these Heavenly Sanctuaries and Heavenly Mansions??!! What if Jesus wasn't kidding when he described the conditions and requirements concerning entering into the Kingdom of Heaven?? Do You Feel Lucky?? What if Da'an essentially communicated the message of Majel -- yet had a VERY different agenda?? Once again, things might not be what they seem to be -- on many levels. What if I wish to help Earth Humanity -- yet subconsciously I consider humanity to be problematic-rebels -- going way, way, way back to Bad-Experiences in the Garden of Eden?? I keep wondering why 'they' won't officially tell me who I am -- if I'm just a Completely Ignorant Fool?! What if that's a cover I don't even know about?! You know -- assign some Bad@ss entity to me -- to keep me screwed-up, miserable, stupid, goofy, and under the radar?! Surprisingly, that wouldn't surprise me one little bit. What if I'm somewhat similar to 'Toothless George' (the goofy adopted son of Dr. John Harvey Kellogg in The Road to Wellville)??!!

    What if there is Real-Substance to Original-Sin -- but in ways very different from that of Roman Catholic Theology??!! I think the Pope Emeritus knows what I'm talking about. I think there's very, very little that the Top Vatican People can say about what they REALLY know -- and probably for legitimate and illegitimate reasons. BTW -- I really do intend to read Jesus of Nazareth by Pope Benedict XVI. I appreciate his call for renewed Biblical and Theological Studies -- and for permitting a wider use of the Traditional Latin Mass -- even though I continue to have huge problems with Roman Catholicism -- Pre and Post Vatican II. I simply choose to be a Christian which probably 95% of Protestants and Catholics would strongly object to. I'm NOT attempting to win any popularity contests -- and I am NOT following anyone's marching orders. I can't even seem to follow my OWN marching-orders...

    Consider reading The Church Undivided by Victor Gaetan -- in the May/June 2013 issue of Foreign Affairs. The Vatican is very skilled at releasing very carefully worded articles, statements, homilies, etc. I hate to put it so bluntly -- but they are sort of Attorneys for Jesus!! Arguing with the Princes of the Church is probably about as difficult and futile as arging with a Zealous Seventh-day Adventist. A high-ranking Episcopal clergyman counciled a fellow clergyman to "Never Argue with a Seventh-day Adventist!!" I was present when these words of wisdom were spoken!! Was it Art Linkletter who asked a child what a Seventh-day Adventist was (on live national television)?? The child exlaimed that "They Don't Eat Meat -- and They Hate Catholics!!" Kids say the darndest things!! I often feel as if I am a Backslidden Seventh-day Sedevacantist!!

    I still think that getting the Archangelic-Matter sraight is essential to getting everything else straight -- but this might require a HUGE amount of proper research and reflection -- and we might not be happy with the results. I tend to think that too many people have too much to lose for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to ever emerge. Beware of diversion and deception. I tend to think that this solar system is so riddled with lies -- that Truth is Public Enemy Number One. Sometimes I think I might be Number Two. Sometimes I feel like Number One and Number Two. Get It??!!

    Don't forget to watch the classic Pilgrims Progress. I continue to think that we should consider the madness from the general context of Christianity. All of the details might not be error-free -- but we need the principles, concepts, and lessons learned from a VERY painful church-history. I continue to think that it is possible to save the church, the world, and humanity.
    Consider placing Astronomy at the center of a multidisciplinary study of Science, Governance, Religion, and Science-Fiction.


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    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 03, 2013 5:37 pm

    Consider combining Constantine, The Prophecy, and Day the Earth Stood Still -- into one big Apocalyptic Motion Picture!! Then, consider watching the first four episodes of the 2009 version of 'V' -- immediately followed by Battlestar Galactica: The Plan. Finally, consider all of the above as somehow being One Big Movie!! But please think of all of the above in relation to this thread!! I've thought about writing a book -- but I could communicate with a book what I'm able to say with this thread -- if and only if you study it on an ongoing basis, and consider all of the links and references. This project isn't for the intellectually-lazy or the feeble-minded!! I wonder if even ONE individual (Human or Otherwise) have done what I've suggested for months at a time??!! I tend to doubt it. This whole thing might very well end up being my personal study-guide -- For My Eyes Only!! Perhaps that's just as well. I wasn't kidding when I spoke of a change of heart. I think I see how this thing works -- and I'm changing my thinking and plans accordingly. Imagine a discussion-debate between Gabriel-Anna, Michael-Anna, and Lucifer-Anna (with the characteristics and biases I've imagined). Once again, is it not important to think the most important topics through from every conceivable angle -- especially the most troubling possibilities?? Once again, I'm NOT trying to win a popularity-contest. I'm NOT running for anything. I simply wish for everything to work out as well as can be expected for all-concerned. I don't need to follow -- and I don't need to lead. I simply wish to be of the most benefit possible for all-concerned. That's all I'm gonna say.

    More Sherry Shriner. Once again, I am not a true-believer -- but this show is sort of a 'Galactic Enquirer' -- which adds another dimension to this thread. Perhaps it is more constructive to study the history of conspiracy-theories -- rather than hanging on the every word of the latest conspiracy-theorist. Just 'cause someone is a nut-case -- doesn't mean they're wrong. Just 'cause you're paranoid -- doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Some People Say I'm a Completely Ignorant Fool. Fool Rule. Beware of Sleeper-Cells of Completely Ignorant Fools. See Something?? Say Something!! The Corrupt Rule the Stupid. Those with the Gold -- Make the Rules. Those with the Gold -- RULE. It's a Rat-Race -- and the Rats are Winning. I have been reduced to modeling idealistic political and theological modalities. Now I'm going to watch Stargate SG-1 "The Powers That Be". It's a classic. Please continue to treat this thread as Political and Theological Science-Fiction -- which might contain some truth -- especially if one takes the thread as a whole -- rather than as a truncated cone. I'm not a scholar of my own thread -- but I wish that I were -- and I will attempt to become such a soul -- rather than merely existing as a completely ignorant fool. I continue to recommend studying this thread in the context of the original Project Avalon -- and the current Mists of Avalon. I still need to study all of Brook's threads -- as well as reading all of 'The Holy Tablets'. I just noticed that most of Brook's posts have been deleted. Why??? Hopefully they have been saved. Will they reappear at some point in the future??? I would love to see a book by Brook. Does one already exist??? I still seem to have a mental and spiritual block regarding this heavy Egyptology -- but I continue to pick away at it -- slowly and uncertainly. I keep getting the sinking-feeling that I have a nasty reincarnational-history connected with Ancient Egypt -- and I am extremely apprehensive regarding potentially opening some sort of a Pandora's Box. I enjoy this site -- and all of the members -- yet I don't seem to gel very well. I doubt there is ANY web-site were I might 'fit-in'. Again -- I have no idea what constitutes Absolute Truth -- and I trust No One -- Human or Otherwise. I guess I'm attempting to consider as many possibilities as possible regarding the State of the Solar System. The more I think about it -- the less I wish to talk about it. I hint at a lot of things -- and then just leave it at that. I am most open on this thread. I don't talk about this madness in 'real-life' -- yet I know that a lot goes on behind my back 'in real-life'. This should never have happened. What happens in 'The Mists of Avalon' should stay in 'The Mists of Avalon'. Check this out! Thanks to Carol for bringing this to our attention. Remember what I previously suggested regarding the Outer Limits of the United States of the Solar System??

    Consider Ma'el in the description below the listed links. Is Ma'el a type of Christ?? Is Ma'el the equivalent of the Archangel Michael (on a soul-level)?? What if Da'an is the reincarnated Ma'el?? Vala Ma'el Da'an?? What is the relationship between Osiris, Isis, Ra, Horus, Set, Ma'el, Zo'or, Da'an, Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, Serqet, Dogma, Legion, Contact, "V", Orthodoxymoron, Liam Kincaid, the Trinity, Archangelic Queens of Heaven, and the United States of the Solar System?? You might be surprised. The Power Vacuum was specifically designed to clean-up a mess. Well, I've collected a lot of dirt, and I think I might need to clean-house and take-out the trash. The whole thing stinks to high-heaven. I played a dirty trick. Sorry about that. "Unto 2300 Days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" (restored to it's rightful state). See Daniel Chapter 8. Has the Last-Chance passed?? Shall the filthy remain filthy?? Do you feel dirty?? Do you feel lucky?? I continue to be haunted by a conversation I had with someone, a couple of days before the Fukushima disaster, when they said they were sorry we couldn't work together, because too much water had gone under the bridge. My response was 'Oh well'. I think about that encounter nearly every day. One final warning to NOT pave the road to hell with my good intentions. I think I might like to live in the equivalent of Augur's underground home (complete with the church and computers) and travel throughout the solar system in a Sport Model UFO (complete with an Unlimited-Access Badge)!! UFO2 BTW, have I met at least a couple of Beautiful Young Pleiadian Women (BYPW) recently?? Is something a brewing?? Cup o Hmmmmmm. What Would Tone3Jaguar Say?? Siriusly, a small room in a base (with a Cray) and and an Unlimited-Access Badge would be plenty. I can bum rides on UFOs and Mag-Lev Trains -- eat in Military Cafeterias (like Vala Mal Doran) -- and schedule practice-time on pipe-organs!! I'd simply like to be some sort of a Behind the Scenes Observer (who writes reports which are taken seriously). I'm not into chasing, fighting, manipulation, and corruption. I like to watch. Please, please, please study this thread from beginning to end. I intend to -- repeatedly. Namaste and Godspeed.

    Around two million years ago, the Taelons arrived within the solar system, where they pulverised the moons surrounding Saturn, and thus created the rings. This was done in order to hide Taelon probes. This was done with the intention of observing the human race developing on Earth. This served as an excellent hiding place for the Companions. (Episode: Summit) The Taelons were more evolved 20,000 years ago than in their modern incarnation. (Episode: Keys to the Kingdom)

    Two-thousand years ago they secretly dispatched one of their most distinguished members known as Ma'el to Earth. Ma'el altered the path of Human evolution dramatically. (Episode: Dimensions) This event occured during the first star flight by the Taelons. Ma'el's mission was a one way journey, and he was tasked with determining if an encounter between the Taelons and Humanity was potentially mutually beneficial. This was one of the reasons why the Companions later embarked on the journey to Earth. If Ma'els findings were negative, the Taelons would depart Earth. Unknown to them, Ma'el had grown attached to Humanity, and believed that his fellow Taelons would exploit the species, and thus he told them not to come to Earth under any circumstances. However, if they chose to come anyway, his message was to treat Humanity as equals, in the hope that Humans would become true equals to the Companions. (Episode: The Secret of One Strand Hill) He also helped engineer Humans to become a psychic race, in order for them to tap into the Commonality, and allow the Taelons to better accept them. (Episode: If You Could Read My Mind) Ma'el left his starship hidden off the coast of Peru, located 150 feet beneath the Pacific ocean. During that time, Ma'el formed relations with the Inca people, and instituted counter measures to prevent the Taelons from finding his starship. (Episode: The Once and Future World) As he was dying, Ma'el took a young Roman Senator known as Salvius Julianus and made him into a surrogate to serve his needs. After hiding his vessel, Ma'el allowed Julianus access to its systems so he could determine the Taelons motives when they arrived on Earth. If they were hostile, the Roman was charged with destroying them, in order to ensure that mankind would develop unchallenged. (Episode: Timebomb) Ma'el's final act was to encode his research into a relic that required the presence of both a Taelon and a Human to activate it -- revealing that mankind was the missing evolutionary link between the Companions and the Jaridians. Thus, without humanity, both species would be doomed to extinction. (Episode: Abduction)

    The Taelons secretly monitored Earth, in order to determine when to contact the Human Race. (Episode: Scorched Earth) This program began at least one year before official contact, and involved the secret abduction of at least 50 humans for experimentation. (Episode: First Breath) At the time, Humanity was engaged in the SI War which ended when a mysterious Quantum Vortex was detonated, which killed 100,000 people. The Taelon Synod ordered the unleashing of this weapon to prevent nuclear holocaust, yet still keep Humanity in a state of war, so the Taelons could play saviors. They adjudicated the Sino-Indian Peace Accords, in order to bring a lasting peace in Asia. (Episode: Scorched Earth) They used their advanced technology to aid in combating world hunger and curing hundreds of diseases. (Episode: Decision) The Taelons were divided on the issue of Humanity, and how to combat the threat posed by the Jaridians. Some Taelons were of the opinion that mankind needed to be turned into a weapon against the Jaridians, while others believed that a joining of the species was needed in order to reclaim an important genetic link that had been lost in their search for perfection. (Episode: The First of its Kind) Humanity was at a crossroads in their evolution, which the Taelons intended to observe and supervise. (Episode: Decision)

    The Revelation of the Genesis of the 'United States of the Solar System' in the 'Mists of Avalon'.
    Just for a change of pace, I thought that I'd take a look at the C.B. Fisk pipe-organ company.

    C.B. Fisk, Inc. is a company in Gloucester, Massachusetts that designs and builds mechanical action pipe organs. It was founded in 1961 by Charles Brenton Fisk (1925-1983), the first American organ builder to build significant tracker organs in the 20th century. His study of early American and European instruments led him to return to mechanical action and to set a new course for American organ building. He modeled his shop on collaborative enterprise, launching the careers of four other North American organ builders and providing the foundation for those who carry on the company he founded.

    Born in Cambridge Mass, Fisk loved music and grew up tinkering with hi-fi equipment. He was a chorister at Christ Church on Cambridge Common where E. Power Biggs was Choirmaster. Charles showed such intelligence as a young man that when he was drafted during WWII, he was sent to Los Alamos where he worked for Robert Oppenheimer on the Manhattan Project. He was 18 years old. After the war he attended Harvard and Stanford, majoring in Nuclear Physics, and worked briefly at Brookhaven National Laboratories, but during his Stanford years decided to pursue a career in organbuilding.

    He apprenticed himself first with John Swinford in Redwood City, California, and then with Walter Holtkamp, Sr. in Cleveland, Ohio, who was at the time the most avant garde of American organbuilders. He went on to become a partner and later sole owner of the Andover Organ Company. In 1961 he established C. B. Fisk near his childhood summer home on Cape Ann in Massachusetts.

    Charles Fisk's style of leadership, modeled after the team of scientists he worked with on the Manhattan Project, involved his co-workers in the day-to-day decisions about the concepts and construction of the instruments. The same people who were drawn by Charles Fisk's ideas carry on his work and share their insight and experience with another generation of organbuilders after his death in 1983.

    Just two years following the installation of a major pipe organ in Auer Hall on Indiana University's Bloomington campus, the Jacobs School of Music has announced the acquisition of a second major instrument built by C.B. Fisk, America's leading organ builder. The acquisition will soon make the Jacobs School of Music home to three Fisk organs, the largest number of instruments by the builder in any one location in the world. The third, known as Opus 142, is a three-manual, six-stop, practice organ that will be installed in May in the Music Addition practice facilities.

    The workshop attracted young co-workers who combined their talents in music, art, engineering, and cabinet making to build organs that redefined modern American organbuilding. Always experimenting, C. B. Fisk was the first modern American organbuilder to abandon the electro-pneumatic action of the early twentieth century and return to the mechanical (tracker) key and stop action of historical European and early American instruments. The Fisk firm went on to construct what were at the time the largest four-manual mechanical action instruments built in America in the 20th century, first at Harvard University's church in 1967 (awaiting installation at a Presbyterian church in Austin, Texas[1]), then again at House of Hope Church in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 1979.

    The company has also built a number of instruments based on historical organs, among them one at Wellesley College patterned after North German organs of the early 17th century, one at the University of Michigan in the manner of the Saxon builder Gottfried Silbermann, and a three-manual instrument at Rice University modeled on the work of the 19th century French master builder Aristide Cavaillé-Coll. The large four-manual dual-temperament instrument at Stanford University's Memorial Church uses modern technology to combine many different aspects of historical organ styles. The firm built concert hall organs for the Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas, Minato Mirai Concert Hall in Yokohama, and Benaroya Hall in Seattle. In 2003 C. B. Fisk built a five-manual organ for the Cathedral in Lausanne, Switzerland, the first American organ to be made for a European cathedral. In its fifty years C.B. Fisk, Inc. has completed over 90 instruments in 23 U.S. states, Switzerland, Japan, and South Korea.

    (I used to be able to play this one perfectly by memory. There's nothing like playing it on a 55 foot-tall organ, late at night, in an empty church.
    Once, when I was doing this, my organ-teacher entered the church, asking "Who's Here -- and Why??" in a most peculiar way!!)

    On the Feast of the Assumption...the afternoon service in Saint-Sulpice ended with a Laudate Dominum by Gounod. When the last echo of the chancel organ had died away Widor took six notes from the final line of the Gounod music and announced them boldly in octaves with full organ, both manual and pedal, and then followed such improvisation as I had never heard before and have seldom heard since, not even by himself. Those who know him only by his symphonies, brilliant as they are, can form no idea of the wonderful force, brilliancy, and spontaneity of his improvisations. One day a pupil of his who did not speak much French requested me to ask him how he had learned to improvise so wonderfully. Widor promptly replied: "By writing. When I stop writing I cease to be able to extemporize well." -- S. Wesley Sears. August 15, 1904

    The only extended form of improvising I heard him do was the toccata form--something like his famous Toccata in F. He always brought the music to two climaxes of power during the piece, and I could never describe to you the thrill of those mixtures and the smooth 32' Pedal Reed--and he ended softly. He usually employed a Gregorian theme from the liturgy of the Mass. -- Edward Shippen Barnes, 1921

    He was in great form...improvising on the Gregorian tones of the Mass being sung at the other end of the church, playing a Bach fugue at the offertory, and finally at the close of the service turning the full power of the organ loose in a brilliant toccata improvised on the phrases which we had just heard from the choir. I had never before heard a master improvise. It seemed incredible at the time, and although I soon learned that improvisation had reached a high plane among French organists, Widor's feats, even now, still seem incredible, not because they were spectacular, but because they were such profoundly good music. -- Alexander Russell, 1907

    The postlude at the close of the service was generally an improvisation on one of the plainsong themes of the day. Widor was one of the greatest of improvisers, and on several occasions I have heard him improvise movements of such splendor as to rival the greatest movements of his symphonies. -- A.M. Henderson, 1937

    He of his nine symphonies. It was gloriously beautiful. The organ is the largest in Paris, with five keyboards, and in the chancel there was a choir of two hundred men. The music is still throbbing in my head and vibrating all through me--the long swelling chords, the low deep tones, the blending voices, the chanting priests, the incense, the light, the holiness of it all! The Catholic service without music is nothing; with music it is everything. I shall remember this morning always. -- Florence Adele Sloan, Sunday, May 13, 1894

    The choir and gorgeously robed priests were filing in...and the small organ in the choir already in full blast. Then a priest intoned a few words, and suddenly the great instrument all about us crashed and thundered, lifting one clear off one's feet and removing all sense of gravity. Then the organ down in the choir answered, and again Widor pressed down the five banks of keys and we were riven with vast peals of sound. The ritual proceeded at the altar, while organ answered to organ, rumbling and rolling through the long nave and wafting up into the one hundred and eight foot arches of the clerestory. The music was all Gregorian, upon the tones of which Widor harmonized freely.

    The Mass ended, the priests and choir formed a sort of recessional, a sortie it is called, and Widor began...a canon or plainsong moving along in the midst of swirling arpeggios of left and right hands alternately. I looked at the pedals, for the air moved along as majestically as if double octaves were being played; but no, the pedal was occupied solely with foundation work. I looked again at his hands in amazement, for the rippling fingers were carrying four-octave arpeggios and that powerful air must come from somewhere! And then I saw that the wonderful hands were not only carrying the whirling arpeggios but also supporting one another in giving out the legato theme of the piece. Always the right or left thumb or forefinger would pass along the note amid the rush of the figuration. And then the sonorous pedal trumpets took it up, but the hands merely added a counterpoint besides the rollicking arpeggios rolling up from the bass, six notes to the beat! And all this was a mere improvisation--harmony and all. I looked at the author of it expecting to see Promethean fire starting from his brows. He was simply calm and earnest about it, and now and then found time to drop a word to a friend seated at his side. -- Warren H. Miller, 1910

    I was moved to tears by the Above Quotations. I believe there is a profound unity in the French Romantic toccata and French Romantic organs, combined with hymn improvisation, and perhaps some German Baroque Bach-style counterpoint! I wonder how Bach would have performed his 'Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor' if he had been at Saint-Sulpice rather than at St. Thomas?! He might even have used the swell pedal! Perhaps he would have treated his listeners to an improvisation in the final measures of the fugue, which would have revealed all of heaven to mere mortals!! With reverence and awe, -- orthodoxymoron, 2012

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri May 17, 2013 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 03, 2013 5:52 pm

    In the final analysis, the value of this thread might reside in its ability to place one in a receptive (yet discerning) frame of mind. It might provide an excellent preparation for what's coming next -- even though I have no idea what that might be. I've gotten so many things wrong, that I do NOT consider myself to be a reliable guide -- yet I continue to think this thread to be an EXCELLENT Study-Guide. The rest is up to YOU!! Namaste and Godspeed!!
    magamud wrote:Ortho, Do you categorize Satan? And if you do, what are your archetypes?
    I guess I think in terms of 'Good-Guys and/or Good-Gals -- and Bad-Guys and/or Bad-Gals' -- and I am unclear about the details. I suspect that Deception is Everywhere -- and I mean Everywhere. I have attempted to deal with a lot of possibilities in this thread -- but I still do not know if any of these possibilities are correct -- and which ones they might be. The truth of the matter might be beyond my comprehension. One race's Christ might be another race's Satan. This thing might be more complex than we can possibly imagine. I will continue to recommend studying this particular thread (and all of the links and suggested DVD's, books, etc.) as a preliminary investigation of 'Who's Who in the Galactic Zoo'. Anu? Who? Dr. Who? Who's on first? Siriusly, Humans might consider a Draconian Reptilian who hates Humanity as being 'Satan' -- but what if Humanity deserves the hatred and wrath of this hypothetical Reptilian 'Satan'?? What if a particular Grey is an Agent of Satan to Buffet Humanity?? I think I might've spoken to Lucifer and/or Satan -- but I'm not sure about that. I'm conceptualizing some VERY upsetting possibilities that I do NOT wish to discuss. I'm feeling as if I need to just drop the subject -- and put my life back together -- into some form of 'Normal' -- unless I'm destined for some sort of Secret Base (like I keep joking about). Then there might NEVER be 'Normal' ever again. BTW -- I've been called 'Satan' within this very site. Does someone know something about orthodoxymoron that I don't know about? When the 'Veil is Lifted' some of us might be shocked. The Horror. Consider this sobering quotation from the early writings of Ellen White:

    "We must examine well the foundation of our hope, for we shall have to give a reason for it from the Scriptures. This delusion (spiritualism) will spread, and we shall have to contend with it face to face; and unless we are prepared for it, we shall be ensnared and overcome. But if we do what we can on our part to be ready for the conflict that is just before us, God will do His part, and His all-powerful arm will protect us. He would sooner send every angel out of glory to the relief of faithful souls, to make a hedge about them, than have them deceived and led away by the lying wonders of Satan.

    I saw the rapidity with which this delusion was spreading. A train of cars was shown me, going with the speed of lightning. The angel bade me look carefully. I fixed my eyes upon the train. It seemed that the whole world was on board, that there could not be one left. Said the angel, “They are binding in bundles ready to burn.” Then he showed me the conductor, who appeared like a stately, fair person, whom all the passengers looked up to and reverenced. I was perplexed and asked my attending angel who it was. He said, “It is Satan. He is the conductor in the form of an angel of light. He has taken the world captive. They are given over to strong delusions, to believe a lie, that they may be damned. This agent, the next highest in order to him, is the engineer, and other of his agents are employed in different offices as he may need them, and they are all going with lightning speed to perdition.”

    I asked the angel if there were none left. He bade me look in an opposite direction, and I saw a little company traveling a narrow pathway. All seemed to be firmly united, bound together by the truth, in bundles, or companies. Said the angel, “The third angel is binding, or sealing, them in bundles for the heavenly garner.” This little company looked careworn, as if they had passed through severe trials and conflicts. And it appeared as if the sun had just risen from behind a cloud and shone upon their countenances, causing them to look triumphant, as if their victories were nearly won.

    I saw that the Lord has given the world opportunity to discover the snare. This one thing is evidence enough for the Christian, if there were no other; namely, that there is no difference made between the precious and the vile. Thomas Paine, whose body has now moldered to dust and who is to be called forth at the end of the one thousand years, at the second resurrection, to receive his reward and suffer the second death, is represented by Satan as being in heaven, and highly exalted there. Satan used him on earth as long as he could, and now he is carrying on the same work through pretensions of having Thomas Paine so much exalted and honored in heaven; as he taught here, Satan would make it appear that he is teaching in heaven. There are some who have looked with horror at his life and death, and his corrupt teachings while living, but who now submit to be taught by him, one of the vilest and most corrupt of men, one who despised God and His law."
    -- 'Early Writings' pgs. 88,89 by Ellen White.

    I pick and choose with the Bible and Ellen White. I simultaneously accept and reject the Bible and Ellen White. They are excellent mental and spiritual exercises -- but who knows what the absolute theological truth really is? I understand that even the Jesuits study the writings of Ellen White (especially 'Great Controversy')! I don't tell people to join churches -- or to leave them. I do tell people to conduct an ongoing astronomy-centered, multidisciplinary study of science, governance, religion, fringe-research, science-fiction, and conspiracy-theories. What if Jesus turns out to be both good and bad -- as heretical as that sounds?? I wouldn't be surprised by ANYTHING at this point. I think that history (both secular and sacred) is very messy and very nasty. Should we consider the possibility of a Good Mary, Bad Mary, Good Jesus, and Bad Jesus?! I'm presently modeling the concept of a Human-Deity who is a composite of the best of everyone -- throughout history. Is there some merit to this approach?? What Would Jesus Say??

    What if the 'Jesus Story' is more hidden and complex than we think? I'm presently interested in what Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer might say about the 'Jesus Story'. I'm also very interested in what Isis-Cleopatra would say about the 'Jesus Story'. Albert Schweitzer was not convinced by the 'Jesus Story' -- but he was pursuaded with the 'Teachings Attributed to Jesus'. I keep thinking that the Bible is part fact and part fiction -- and that some of it is written symbolically and in code. Have we been dealing with some sort of an Egypt v Rome situation for thousands of years? What if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament -- with a remake?? I desire the most idealistic theology imaginable -- yet the reality seems to be just the opposite. I think this discontinuity drives a lot of people insane. Even Mother Teresa suffered from severe theological difficulties. My life has frankly been ruined by severe theological difficulties -- and my theological speculations within this site might've cost me my eternal-life -- or at least any significant role in the life hereafter. I have been attempting to idealistically combine the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer', the 'Desire of Ages', the 'Federalist Papers', and Sacred Classical Music -- into a Political and Theological Middle-Way -- yet even this effort has been somewhat unsatisfactory -- especially when no one will really discuss this in any sort of deep and meaningful way. What if Satan has been covertly ruling just about everything in this solar system -- for thousands of years?? What if Satan is about to 'come out of the closet' -- and rule this solar system openly for who knows how long?? I've been told that an attempted theocracy will be followed by an extermination. I SO wish to be idealistic concerning Solar System Politics and Religion -- but the decision seems to have been made at the highest levels of the universe that the Human Race will be TERMINATED. Has our idealism and wishful-thinking blinded us to what the Bible really teaches?? I continue to be interested in the concept of the Eucharistic Liturgy in the context of Ancient Egypt. What Would Gerald Massey Say?

    I keep wondering about Ancient Egypt, and how it relates to the Bible. I've read 'Jesus: Last of the Pharaohs' by Ralph Ellis -- and I'm reading 'From Cleopatra to Christ' by Ralph Ellis. I wonder about Isis, Horus, and Set. I wonder about Ra, Osiris, Isis, Sekhmet -- and about how all of these names relate to Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer. I'm sensing that really pinning this down might be nearly impossible -- and that if one managed to figure it out, they probably would wish that they had never figured it out. I feel more and more attacked and miserable -- the more I think about this sort of thing -- and the closer I get to figuring things out. I also sense that the internet has opened a Pandora's Box -- which the galactic elite would like to close. If reincarnation is the way things work -- the questions I just asked might open a huge can of worms. If I'm still sane in 2020, I will be very surprised. I might know the truth by then -- but the price might be higher than I can imagine. What if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament -- and the God of the Roman Catholic Church?? What if Jesus is a mixture of good and bad -- on a reincarnational basis?? What if the Jesus Story is mostly fictional -- with the creator of the Jesus Story being the real key figure? I keep thinking that the real Bible Story is nastier than we can imagine. The history of humanity might be more upsetting than we can imagine.


    Be sure to apply Apocalypstick liberally -- just prior to kissing your arse good-bye on 12-21-2012. It's my understanding that the
    'Regressives' hate each other, and fight throughout the year -- but that they bury the hatchet, and get along on Christmas Day!! I'm NOT kidding!!
    Posting the following does not imply an endorsement by myself: Monday Night with Sherry Shriner - Does December 21 signal the end
    of America and worldwide chaos? Are giants, aliens and Chinese about to be unleashed from the hundreds of DUMBS across America?
    Is the Antichrist fake Jesus-Sananda arriving on the 25th? This month is going to be epic folks, prepare!!
    magamud wrote:The idea of the cross is it is two paths, as in two masters.

    There is a binary relationship that springs forth from creation. God and the Devil.

    Its the fountain...

    Without knowing satans whole, how could you reflect Gods whole?

    Entertainment was designed to capture the imagination. Imagination is needed to vibrate love.

    Both paths are interwoven like a fabric.

    Like clothes...
    I don't know what's planned for humanity and this planet -- but I certainly hope that the highest level of ethics prevails. Again, I don't know about all of the ancient and hidden factions, races, nations, religions, and issues. I have speculated about some -- in a rather dark manner -- yet I truly do not know the truth about past, present, and future -- regarding life, the universe, and everything. Namaste and Godspeed.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Wed May 15, 2013 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 03, 2013 6:13 pm

    I think I deluded and flattered myself into thinking this thread was actually making a difference, and changing things for the better -- but I should've known better. This world seems to be following a script -- which nothing or no-one will be allowed to significantly interfere with. Perhaps the best I can do is carefully watch things play-out -- which might include humanity bleeding-out. I certainly hope not -- but there seems to be a Brutal Gang of Facts and Dracs on a collision-course with the Human Race. Perhaps I should stock-up on pop-corn, as I prepare to view Earth: Theater of the Universe. Rated "R" for Ridiculous.

    I tend to think that we do not require evil in order to achieve a balance. The presence of evil is indicative of imbalance -- and it is not necessary for the beings of the universe to experience evil -- in all of its ugliness and horror -- in order to properly understand and cherish righteousness, purity, and goodness. I sometimes wonder if humanity is a renegade race and an illegal creation -- which is deeply offensive to its Parent Race and Galactic Powers That Be. If the God of this Parent Race declared war on Humanity -- they might seem to be a Satan from the perspective of Human Beings. The Creator and Leader of the New Human Race might be viewed as being a traitor or Luficer from the perspective of the Parent Race. Human Beings might view this being as being their God or Christ. What if the Crucifixion of Christ represents the punishment of Humanity by the Parent Race?? I have no idea if this is the way things are -- but I am modeling this sort of thing -- so as to consider the Human predicament from as many angles as possible. But really, this makes me a heretic of sorts -- even though I mean no hostility or harm toward anyone. Please watch 'Earth: Final Conflict' for clues regarding conflicting races and agendas. I think of the Taelons as being Greys. I think of the Jaridians as being Reptilians. I guess I think of the Atavus as being Annunaki. According to the series, Humans are related to both the Taelons and Jaridians. I have speculated repeatedly that Humans might be related to the Greys and Reptilians -- even though I don't absolutely know that the Greys and Reptilians exist. I am VERY tentative and hesitant in my research and speculation. I presently seem to be on the side of humanity -- but who knows what my editorial slant has been in previous incarnations?? What if:

    Father = Prime Representative of Other-Than-Human Humanoid-Physicality??
    Son = Prime Representative of Human Physicality??
    Holy Spirit = The Souls Animating Human Physicality and Other-Than-Human Humanoid-Physicality??

    I continue to hypothesize that Human Physicality is a Recent Renegade Development in an Ancient Other Than Human Universe -- and that the Universal Immune System is determined to eliminate Human Physicality -- so as to Purify the Universe. I so hope that I'm wrong. What are the implications and ramifications of 'Namaste'??? I think that people should study Religion, Theology, and Sacred-Texts -- but I can understand why many people reject Religion, Theology, and Sacred-Texts. I think we have a HUGE Religion, Theology, and Sacred-Text PROBLEM on our hands -- and we had better solve it with all deliberate speed. Imagine Zo'or and Da'an arguing about theology and religion!! What do you think about this??!! 1. 2. 3. I grew up attending the SDA Church -- but it seemed to me that it had been compromised, infiltrated, and subverted -- like I suspect most churches have been -- so I eventually stopped attending church -- even though I continued to be very interested in theology. Is there a good-side to the British-Israel thing (with German and Roman connections)?? I think there is a good-side and a bad-side to just about everyone and everything. Here is some SDA theological controversy for you!! I don't just bash the Jesuits!! The following is taken from pages 393-399 of "Daniel 8:14, the Day of Atonement, and the Investigative Judgment" by Dr. Desmond Ford. Imagine discussing all of these comments and questions with the Queen of Heaven, the Prince of Sirius, and a Sirian King -- in a palace, cathedral, or queen-ship!!

    "A. For those who wish to give Ellen G. White greater authority than Scripture.

    A very natural reaction to this manuscript would be to "sit" on certain Spirit of Prophecy statements regarding the sanctuary and to affirm in essence, "Here I stand. I can do no other."

    I wish to suggest that such an attitude requires more than "standing" to validate it. It will indeed be necessary to do much "other," including the following:

    1. Demonstrate that where Ellen G. White and Scripture appear to conflict, veto power must always be given to Ellen G. White rather than vice versa.

    2. Reject such clear Scriptures as Hebrews 6:19,20; 9:8, 12, 24-25; 10:19-20, etc., which plainly teach that Christ entered the Most Holy Place at His ascension.

    3. Provide clear didactic Scriptures for the doctrine of the investigative judgment. Typological evidence as a basis for doctrine has never been valid -- only typological illustration of doctrine otherwise proved.

    4. Explain how it could be that Ellen G. White could sometimes misinterpret her own visions. For example, she understood her first vision to endorse the shut door doctrine -- that probation had closed for the churches and the wicked world. "I saw" often signifies a personal conviction -- not a divine revelation. See its repeated use in the report of the Camden vision.

    5.Explain how it could be that Ellen G. White could teach one thing one time, and yet change that view another time -- e.g. her position on the law in Galatians, the covenants, time to close the Sabbath, etc.

    6. Explain the several crystal clear Ellen G. White statements which speak of His entering within the veil at His ascension. See, for example, April 19, 1905, Signs of the Times; Desire of Ages, pg. 757.

    7. Explain how Great Controversy can be demonstrably wrong in certain exegetical positions and yet correct on the investigative judgment, when this is not demonstrably provable from Scripture, e.g. Ellen White's understanding of the sixth and seventh trumpet. She endorsed the Litch position, which is untenable exegetically and historically. For the revision in 1911 she changed her mind about Litch having given the "exact day" of the prophetic fulfillment.

    As regards the seventh trumpet, in later works she placed its fulfillment as in the future, though Great Controversy applies it to the past.

    The exposition of Revelation 11 regarding the French Revolution is not accurate exegetically or historically. There never was in France a three-and-a-half year period when the Bible was banned. Hundreds of hours of research by Ellen G. White apologists have failed to find any such thing. The opposite has been found.

    Ellen G. White's endorsement of the Miller exposition of Matthew 25: 1-13 is quite indefensible. The passage is not talking of 1844, but of the end of the world. The introductory word "Then" seen in the context of the preceding as well as the following verses, makes this quite plain.

    8. Explain how Ellen G. White can use many Scriptural concepts which belong to the last things and apply them both to 1844 and thereabouts, as well as to the end of the world, e.g. the sealing, the shaking, the covering, the fall of Babylon, the cleansing of the sanctuary.

    9. Explain Ellen G. White's statements: "The Bible and the Bible only is the source of doctrine," and that "never should the testimonies be carried to the front." "Let all prove every point of doctrine from the Scriptures." It is quite impossible to prove from Daniel, Hebrews, Revelation, or elsewhere that a judgment upon believers began as a result of a change of heavenly ministry in 1844.

    10. Provide an apologetic whereby Adventists may go to the world and say: "We have a grand and important truth for you -- a worldwide judgment session is now in process. We cannot show it to you from Scriptures, but we can show it to you from writings of one concerning whom you have never before heard. True, that writer said we should prove all doctrine from Scripture and not from her writings -- but here is an exception -- this basic distinguishing truth we cannot prove from Scripture but it is clear in the writings of Ellen G. White."

    When these things have been done in a convincing way, then such exponents can on the basis of the Ellen G. White writings alone, and in opposition to Scripture, say "Here I stand. I can do no other." It may also be helpful at such a time to remember significant Ellen G. White affirmations.

    "The Spirit was not given -- nor can it ever be bestowed -- to supersede the Bible, for the Scriptures explicitly state that the word of God is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested...Isaiah declares. To the law and to the testimony; 'if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.'(Isaiah 8:20)" -- Great Controversy pg. 9. "But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible and the Bible only as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms." -- Great Controversy pg. 595.

    Inasmuch as Ellen G. White never originated a single doctrine, but only took her stand after others found such doctrines in Scripture (e.g. the Sabbath, health reform, righteousness by faith at Minneapolis, the "daily," etc.), and inasmuch as she refused to permit her writings to decide doctrinal issues, but rather referred inquirers to Scripture (1 Selected Messages 164, 416), we can only say to those who still wish to re-echo Luther's declaration at Worms that his closing prayer is also appropriate for them -- "God help me."

    These points are a protest, not against the reality of the gift of prophecy in Ellen G. White, but against undoing the utility of that gift by overdoing our claims for it through affirming the writings as inerrant, or as a basis for doctrine -- even having prior place to Scripture. We would like to remind group A that Luther's prayer was uttered after his affirmation of 'Sola Scriptura'.

    B. For those who wish to reject Ellen G. White.

    Briefly, I wish to address another group who, to my mind, fall off the straight path into an abyss on the opposite side to that dealt with above. I have friends who, perceiving that Ellen White's comments on the investigative judgment do not parallel Scripture, and learning of her wide use of sources, decide therefore that Ellen G. White must be dropped forthwith, and likewise any belief in her prophetic mission. This seems to them consistent and logical, but so does much other reasoning which ultimately proves unreliable. My friends who pursue such reasoning are distressed that I refuse to join them in their conclusion and therefore I have for them, as well as the group addressed above, some questions.

    1. Do they owe nothing of value to Ellen G. White? Would they be Seventh-day Adventists today had there been no Ellen G. White?

    2. Would Seventh-day Adventism have survived such crises as that of the first decade of this century when Kellog numbered among his followers a large proportion of our leaders, including Jones, Waggoner, Sutherland, Magan, Paulson, etc., had Ellen G. White not intervened?

    3. Suppose there had been no Ellen White at the Minneapolis conference of 1888, would the teachings of Waggoner and Jones on righteousness by faith have ever reached our constituency and paved the way for that proclamation which being the third angel's message in verity is ultimately to lighten the earth with its glory?

    4. Going back further still, when in the 1840's many of our forefathers were on the verge of surrendering their faith in the 1844 movement, would this church ever have emerged and consolidated but for the influence of Ellen G. White?

    5. Our work is characterized by evangelistic, publishing, colporteur, educational, and health emphases. Which of these would have assumed its present shape and prominence without Ellen G. White?

    6. Is it likely that God would have intertwined with our history for its first seventy years the work of one ultimately to be revealed as a fraud? Does God work in harmony with Satan? How likely is it that a person knowing her own hypocrisy could keep up her pretense for seventy years amid crises and gargantuan labors?

    7. How much of your rejection of Ellen G. White grows out of a studied understanding of the Biblical teachings on revelation and inspiration?

    8. For example, what do you understand the difference to be between these terms -- revelation and inspiration? And what difference is there between them individually and illumination?

    9. Has the church universal ever been agreed on the exact nature of inspiration? Do we find that creeds usually define it? Does the modern evangelical scene display unity on the matter?

    10. Is the Bible written as we might have expected it to be? Does its content of history, poetry, and outdated legislature comply with our sense of fitness? Does its lack of creedal statements surprise us? Has God so written the Word that doctrinal issues are made crystal clear, and that unbelievers are quickly silenced?

    11. Or to say the same thing another way: Is the Bible primarly given to convey information so as to satisfy the mind, or is it a specific moral test? That is to say, has God been content with a weight of evidence for the honest, or has He guaranteed that even the dishonest can be left without excuse?

    12. Is there a parallel between the written Word and the Living Word? Did Jesus Christ also evidence some of the surprising features we find in Scripture? That is, did He come as we might have expected? Did He overwhelm all with the evidence that He was what He claimed? Were His statements unequivocal in meaning or sometimes ambivalent? Was He, too, a moral test for His hearers, rather than a great teacher chiefly?

    13. Was Jesus both human and divine? And if so, might that also be the obvious nature of Scripture? Did Jesus possess human liabilities and weaknesses such as dependence on creaturely elements such as food, and drink, and rest? Did He ever need to ask questions to secure information? Were His 200 plus inquiries just a front?

    14. Did Jesus work as we might expect a celestial visitor to work, or did He also confine Himself in some areas at least to cultural restrictions and limitations? Did He come speaking the language of heaven, or the language of Palestine? Was He dressed as a messenger of light, or as a Galilean peasant?

    15. Did Jesus, in some of His expressions, fall short of technical precision, as when He declared the mustard seed to be the least of all seeds?

    16. Was Jesus absolutely original in His oral presentations, or is it true, as one scholar has affirmed, that there is not a paragraph from His addresses which does not have its roots in the Old Testament? Is it true, for example, that every phrase of the Lord's Prayer is to be found in previous Scripture?

    17. Do Christ's parables contain no difficulties? Are we fully comfortable with His use of hell-fire in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus? Do we feel quite content with His commendation of the rascally steward?

    18. How is it that the first three gospels differ so much from the fourth? How is it that they cover very similar ground for much of His ministry, and omit the different materials found in John's gospel covering the same time?

    19. Can we explain how it is that the first three gospels not only have broad similarity, but even at times use exactly the same blocks of material, same phraseology, same words -- even the same hiatuses?

    20. Can any of us tell where the words of John break off and those of Jesus begin, and vice versa, throughout the fourth gospel? For example, in chapter three, which verse marks the close of Jesus's words to Nicodemus? Did Christ utter the famous John 3:16?

    21. Why is it that the style of Christ's speeches in John is so far removed from His style as recorded in the other three gospels? Why is that style either identical or almost so with John's own style?

    22. What was said at Christ's baptism: "Thou art my beloved Son" or "This is my beloved Son'? Or were both said?

    23. Did the healing of the first leper take place before the Sermon on the Mount (Luke), or after (Matthew)?

    24. Were there two Gadarene demoniacs (Matthew 8:28) healed, or one (Mark 5:2 and Luke 8:27)?

    25. Was the healing of Bartimaeus before Christ reached Jericho (Luke 18:35), or after (Mark 10:46)?

    26. Was Luke given by vision the names of the intertestamental ancestors of Christ, as recorded in Luke 3, or did he derive them from sources such as Luke 1:1-4 might indicate?

    27. Where did Luke get his second Cainan from his genealogy of Christ? See Luke 3:36,37 and compare Genesis 10.

    28. Was Stephen's speech (Acts 7) inspired? If so, does it agree exactly with the Genesis account of the historical events he referred to?

    29. Why was the inspired apostle Paul dependent upon news from Chloe for his information about the situation in Corinth? Why did God give it to him by vision?

    30. What evidence is there in the cream of the New Testament -- the epistles -- that visions were given to facilitate their writing?

    31. Were visions necessary for the writer of Proverbs as he conveyed some platitudes known and recognized from the foundation of the world -- such platitudes as: the lazy man shall suffer want, a nagging woman is as unpleasant as continual rain, good news makes a person cheerful, bad emotions cause poor health, to have money is to have many "friends"?

    32. Similarly, did the Psalmist need visions in order to exhort us to "Come, worship, and bow down," and to comfort us by the reminder that "all the wicked shall God destroy"?

    33. Were visions necessary for the chronicling of the well-known historical events in the ministry of Christ? or for most of the annals of Judah and Israel? How many of the historical authors of Old Testament books ever hint that they received visions in order to make possible their writings? Why was a Paul chosen to set forth the theology of the New Testament? Would not a school boy or a fisherman have done as well under inspiration?

    34. Is inspiration "docetic" in its operation? Or is it true of the written Word, as of the living Word that it is just as much human as though not at all "divine"?

    35. Does inspiration guarantee equal value for all inspired documents? That is, would we miss the genealogies as much as the Sermon on the Mount? Does Scripture like a living body contain a heart, form, and limbs, so to speak, with some members more essential than others?

    36. Is there an economy of miracle in the writing of Scripture? Does God ever do supernaturally what can be done naturally? Why did Christ have others fill the water pots with water, and roll away the stone of Lazarus' tomb?

    37. Are the prophecies of Scripture completely unambiguous? Are they so plain that a child may understand them? Have all the details of Biblical prophecies been fulfilled? Are some of them conditional?

    38. Is our real problem with Scripture what we don't understand or what we do?

    39. When Jesus told His disciples that the real truth about Himself couldn't come from flesh and blood but was a divine gift, is this true also of Scripture, and other agencies of God? Do reason and human expectation have priority in determining what is a revelation from God? Can something be supra-rational without being irrational?

    40. Does God usually bestow upon separate items just that attention which is proportionate to their importance in the scale of being? Is His work always complete in every way, or just adequate? Does the human organism demonstrate absolute perfection in its formation, or chiefly adequacy? Is the eye a perfect optical instrument? Does the memory function perfectly? Is the human mind infallible in its reasoning process? Has reason itself suffered from the Fall?

    41. Can we explain any of the mighty works of God -- creation, providence, miracle, regeneration, sanctification, atonement? If not, should we expect to have a thorough understanding of inspiration and revelation? If the Fall came through a lusting after forbidden knowledge, could it be that man's restoration involves repentance about such lusting, and the substituting of trust?

    42. Is "ye shall know them by their fruits" a simple practical rule that even the uneducated and immature can usually apply with success if honestly desiring to know the truth?

    43. What did Jesus mean when He said, "If any man is willing to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine"? Was He saying that it is the heart and not the head, which to the highest doth attain?

    44. Is it true that two-thirds of life is conduct, and that God might not be so concerned about some theoretical issues as we are?

    45. Is it true that Christ held in His hand the whole map of explored truth but only revealed enough for practical purposes?

    46. Was Christ Himself a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense? And if so, could this be true also of some genuine forms of revelation besides Him?

    47. Are apocalyptic visions such as those of Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation typical of Scripture or exceptional?

    48. How much evidence is there in reading the Gospels or the epistles that the writers felt they had divine control and minute heavenly guidance?

    49. How much of Ellen G. White advocates behavior contrary to Scriptural standards? What sort of persons would we be if striving to live up to the standards of Ellen G. White? Is it possible that even the sections of Ellen G. White some of us find so taxing would be clarified if we understood the difference between law and gospel, and between law as a standard and law as a method?

    50. If Scripture itself has been terribly abused, even employed for the purpose of murdering innocent millions, should it be surprising if illegitimate use be made of other of God's instruments of revelation?

    51. How much danger would there be in advocating that God had used Ellen G. White as a messenger if we followed her own admonition to base all doctrine upon the Bible and the Bible only?

    52. How much risk would there be in advocating that God has used Ellen G. White as a special messenger if we simultaneously confessed, as she did, that "God and heaven alone are infallible"?

    53. How is it that when Ellen G. White chose a source which best expressed her views of inspiration she chose one which was at odds with the fundamentalist churches of the day -- one which advocated that the writers of Scripture were God's penmen, not His pen, and that in their use of rhetoric and logic God was not represented?

    54. Is it possible that many who wish to reject Ellen G. White do so on the same basis that King Ahab rejected the prophet of his day -- "I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil" -- 1 Kings 22:8? And is it possible that others reject her because of a legalistic upbringing which misused Ellen G. White in advocating law without gospel?

    55. If Christ came to comfort the afflicted but also to afflict the comfortable, and if John, His predecessor, likewise rebuked hypocrisy and evil in the religious, and if both, like all other prophets, called for repentance, could it be that some who reject Ellen G. White's prophetic role do so on the basis that she makes them uncomfortable by her demand for repentance in specific areas?

    56. If you were choosing a surgeon, or a real estate agent, or a banker, would you feel most comfortable with one who valued the writings of Ellen G. White, or one who rejected them?

    57. Do you know the difference between the Greek and the Hebrew views of knowledge? Which one held that the ideal was to gather as much conceptual truth as possible about everything in order that we might be little gods in knowledge? Which one believed that knowledge was worthless unless practical, and doubly worthless unless related to piety? What is meant by "wisdom" in the book of Proverbs? Does that book mean by "fool" one with little intelligence? And is the "wise" man of Proverbs and elsewhere in Scripture someone with great intellect and powers of perception, or someone who reverences God and acts accordingly? When Ellen G. White says of Christ that He held in His hand the great map of unexplored truth but only disclosed that which had practical value, is she following the Greek or Hebrew view of knowledge? Is there a relationship between these concepts and the apparent carelessness of Scripture about some details of fact, for example, its use of round numbers (e.g. "Seventy sevens" -- Daniel 9:25; Matthew 18:22; "fourteen" -- Matthew 1:17; "480" -- 1 Kings 6:1; "ten" -- Daniel 1:20; 7:24; "forty" -- etc.)?

    58. Does the Scriptural use of figures of speech such as hyperbole teach us anything about the nature of inspiration? For example, is it literally true that if all Christ had done had been recorded, the world itself could not contain the books that would need to be written? Had the gospel been preached to every creature under heaven in Paul's day, and if so, why was he still planning to go to such places as Spain, and why does Revelation 14:6 picture a message yet to go to every nation?

    59. Are you, as a Westerner, completely happy with all of Paul's arguments? For example, see Galatians 3:16, where he plays on the plural and singular meanings of "seed"? Does his use of Hosea in Romans 9:25f actually reflect what Hosea intended? Was Hosea forecasting the coming in of the Gentiles or the re-acceptance of forsaken Israelites? Do 2 Corinthians 3 and the Old Testament source of the veil incident agree? Do you think that the law about not muzzling the ox was only written for our sakes, and not at all for the oxen? See 1 Corinthians 9:8-10. How is it that Paul under inspiration gives a wrong account of his baptized converts in one place, and then remembers more a little later? 1 Corinthians 1:14-16. And why does the Greek original of Galatians show that some of Paul's sentences were never completed?

    60. What is "the bottom line" of inspiration? Is it abstract or practical in intent? Did Jesus on earth ever work unnecessary miracles, or did all His mighty works contribute to the meaning of salvation? Has God been content to be misunderstood in some things when a little more effort on His part could have prevented such a thing? Has God really done everything He could to prevent unbelief or has He only done sufficient for those prepared to be honest? If we are all dying people, with but a remnant of time left, what do we need most from God? Has He provided it? 2 Timothy 3:16; John 17:3; 20:31.

    These are some of the questions which could be considered by those who urge me to join them in their rejection of the ministry of Ellen G. White. As for me, I must make Scripture the sole basis of doctrine. But for that very reason, I must also be open to any manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit promised therein, including the gift of prophecy. If I find, as is the case with Ellen G. White, one who leads me to Christ and His Word as supreme in all things, and who exhorts to holiness, I should accept the messenger, but without surrendering the right to exercise the canonical test of Scripture. Believing in the priesthood of all believers as well as 'Sola Scriptura' I will remember that "The doctrine that God has committed to the church, the right to control the conscience, and to define and punish heresy, is one of the most deeply rooted of papal errors" (Great Controversy page 293), and that no ecclesiastical creedal statement shall move me one whit if obviously contrary to the plain testimony of the Word of God. We can do no other."

    Someone might find this book on Revelation to be somewhat interesting. It was just written (2012) by one of my teachers (Dr. Erwin R. Gane). I don't know if I'll order it, because I have way too much on my plate already. He didn't see eye to eye with Dr. Desmond Ford (to say the least)! I am not telling anyone to join the SDA church -- but books by some of the more prominent SDA theologians are most interesting. Please do not neglect Biblical and Theological Studies as you grapple with the New Age Mumbo Jumbo!! I tend to think that most of us are going to get blindsided by what's really coming. I have no idea if struggling with this madness will help us when the excrement contacts the refrigeration system. I just re-read 'The Shaking of Adventism' by Geoffery Paxton -- and some of you might find this book to be an interesting read. It is a review (by an Australian Anglican) of the battle over Righteousness by Faith in the SDA church -- up to 1977. I was in the middle of some of this drama -- which is probably one reason why I no longer attend church -- and why I am a Completely Ignorant Fool. Or am I a Pious Zombie?? I'm easily confused as I continue to beat against the rocks of infidelity. Is the SDA church a British-Israel Cult controlled by Jesuits and Alphabet Agents?? Oh Boy!! I need to think about something else. I bought that Dr. Erwin Gane book on Revelation -- and Dr. Desmond Ford's book on Daniel (1978) complete with a forward by F. F. Bruce, and a very interesting introduction. Why do I do this to myself? I know not what I do.

    I just finished reading Dr. Gane's book -- and I found it deeply troubling. It contained nothing new -- but it summarized the historical Adventist prophetic viewpoint with surgical precision and nerves of steel. It is a very violent book -- but we seem to live in a violent universe -- ruled by a violent God. Perhaps things have always been that way. Perhaps things will always be that way. Perhaps things have to be that way. I get the feeling that this world, and the human-race, were an experiment -- to attempt to make things better for everyone -- but that things went very wrong -- and might've made things worse -- with a helluva lot of hard-feelings. Gane's book almost seems to be a verdict against humanity (as sinners in the hands of an angry God). I am presently very troubled regarding humanity -- and with the management of humanity. Keep studying the Bible -- from Genesis to Revelation -- but don't expect it to make you happy. Try to get in-tune with whoever wrote the Bible -- and then apply this level of spirituality to a multidisciplinary study of life, the universe, and everything. Now I'm going to finish Dr. Ford's book. We really need to deal with this sort of thing -- whether we like it, or not -- whether we believe in God, or not. God might not believe in us -- and perhaps with some justification. Considering the possibilities has literally ruined my life. BTW -- consider reading 'The Openness of God' by Dr. Richard Rice -- regarding Prophecy, Foreknowledge, and Freedom.

    A Reading From the Fourth Chapter of Galatians (KJV):

    1Now I say , That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:4But when the fulness of the time was come , God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying , Abba, Father.7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.8Howbeit then , when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage ? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.12Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.14And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected ; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.15Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record , that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth ? 17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.18But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?22For it is written , that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.24 Which things are an allegory : for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.27For it is written , Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

    What if we are dealing with an Ultimate Deity -- and with Two Rival Mother-Son Teams?? Just for illustrative purposes -- think of a Jaridian Ultimate Deity -- with Zo'or--Sandoval v Da'an--Kincaid. What if Liam Kincaid jumped ship -- and joined the Zo'or--Sandoval Team -- under the ultimate direction of the Ultimate Deity?? What if Da'an got demoted -- and was left to twist slowly, slowly in the wind?? I mean NO disrespect with any of my speculations. I'm simply attempting to get at the Explosive-Truth -- and defuse a Prophecy-Bomb. Some of you understand what I'm talking about. What if Josephus was Peter, John the Baptist, John the Revelator, Saul, Paul, and Jesus?? Or, at least, did the research and writing -- and the directing of several actors on a stage??!! What if Josephus was responsible for most of the final-draft Bible writing?? This was just an off the wall thought -- but try extrapolating from the work of people like Ralph Ellis and Jordan Maxwell. I'm simply wondering about a Biblical Mastermind. What if the 'Real Jesus' was exiled somewhere in the Far East?? What if Isis and Cleopatra are more important than we think?? What if the REAL Bible Story is more ugly and complex than we can possibly imagine?? I truly tremble when I think about what reincarnational roles I might've played in Ancient Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and Rome -- just for starters. I keep worrying that I was some sort of a World War Two Bad@ss. Get ready for a VERY Wild Disclosure Ride -- and believe 5% of what you read, see, and hear. I believe that a very real theological story and reality exists -- but I suspect that we know less than 5% of the absolute theological truth. I continue to be VERY frustrated with having to Fly-Blind. I feel as if I am being taken advantage of -- and laughed at -- each and every day. But will I have the last laugh?? I doubt that the Real Truth is any laughing matter. I suspect that it is VERY sad -- and I don't expect to EVER be happy again. Here is something written by Brook (on part 1 of the 'Red Pill' thread), which might be relevant to what I just wrote:

    "Now if you were to look at the directions that history has led us you would surly believe that Sekhmet and Isis were deeply involved with these Annunaki creeps. But if you have actually read this thread I spelled it out for you what I have seen. She deeply loved Osiris? She could not stand to be in the same room with him! it was no accident his phallus came up missing! And with it came validations that were astounding. for example Isis lost her life at the hands of Ptah for not cooperating with this evil agenda to enslave and mutate and manipulate. All evidence of what was really the truth went down with Atlantis. And after that, all you have been presented was what THEY want for you to see. So be it."

    orthodoxymoron comments: "I've been neglecting this thread - but now I'm going to dig into it with enthusiasm. I know that Lucifer is supposed to be deceased - but I will continue to speculate about the past, present, and future of Lucifer. I'm finding it helpful to think of a Male Nine-Foot Tall Draconian Reptilian God/Satan Pimp of This World - a Female (or hermaphroditic) Human/Reptile Hybrid Mediatrix Lucifer/Lilith/Hathor/Isis/Mary/Anna ("V") Whore of Babylon - and a Sensitive Male Fully Human Jesus (who is very good, yet lacks the nasty, cunning firepower of the other two - and who most people won't give the time of day to). Gabriel, Lucifer, Michael? Mason, Nazi, Magician? The three primary faction leaders in this solar system? Sirius A, Sirius B, Andromeda? Thank-you BROOK for forcing me to deal with the details of Egyptology. Thank-you Lionhawk for providing your 'from the inside' insights into the hidden realms. I'm not a scholar or an experiencer. I'm a neurotic speculator. It takes all kinds - but sometimes I wonder why?"

    Brook responds: "Isis was not the whore of Babylon by a long shot are falling into the lies of the century to even consider such. This is the leanings of the nature of use of the energy that is the Story of her.

    Hathor was an all together different faction involved with Egypt......the Hathors invited themselves to join a party... in alignment with the reptilian signature.

    Lucifer had and all together different signature then the reptilians.......of the Angelic realm. A separate yet just as evil agenda...and not necessarily set out that just ended that way.
    Remember ODM....Isis was killed at the hands of a slimy reptilian! Ptah.....who threw her in a snake pit...while her trusting friend who was with her to watch over her.....Aritmus..... stood there in horror, and could not save her. While Ptah shouted in anger......because she had not cooperated...shouting at her, as she lay dying ....saying "she could have had the world! "

    She chose death over his evil, because this is not what source intended.....not the God she knew.

    Tacodog comments:

    Brook: You definitely have my ears (eyes).
    Just want to make sure I get this straight.
    Ra (Sun)/Sekhemt(feline) united and created Isis (feline/Sun), watcher for Ra. Isis took on Nephthys as her sister. Nephthys is hybrid? Feline bloodline?
    Ptah/Thoth (brothers) are Annunaki
    Osiris/Set (Annunaki/feline) (sons of Thoth or Ptah?)
    Osiris/Isis marry and had Horas. Set eliminates Osiris
    Ptah eliminates Isis
    Jesus came into being through Mary’s bloodline (Which is Sirian? Same as Ra?) to do what Horus failed at doing. Was Horus eliminated and by whom?
    Hathor – another bloodline? Allied with reptilians
    Lucifer – Angelic realm – turned evil
    The “Royal Bloodline” is Annunaki and Feline? “The Royal Bloodline are the Royals we speak of today? The ordinary human bloodline – all of the above possibly? Did RA seed earth with “hybrids” and human’s DNA is a variety of bloodlines mentioned above? Where is RA while Thoth is running havoc? Is Ra the “God” in this case? Is he the good guy? Does he not know what is going on down here? Hathor/Lucifer also entities causing havoc, and their “bosses” are unable to control them as well? Doesn’t Universe care about all this running amok?

    Once again: Great thread!

    If I can throw another log on this fire...............

    I am going to pull an ODM approach here, which is a good thing, I hope. Let's just say that the Creator has a real warm fuzzy spot for this Planet. A real jewel in his/her eyes. Is it so hard to fathom the reasons why? If you look upon this Planet you will see a reflection of the Universe by the extremes she provides. From beautiful to ugly, and every other extreme polarities imaginable. It is that bandwidth of polarity that makes a perfect environment for experiencing. Throw free agency in as a gift and look at all the experience that can be created. Throw a few Angels, a few Aliens, demi Gods, some down right evil bastards, and some of Earth's daughters and sons created with alien bloodlines, and you have a block buster!

    So everything is going just fine. Earth is on a time line that is in alignment with her own growth. Here come some players that just make a bad choice forcing other players to unplug because now Earth has been side stepped to another time line. Now here is my ODM question of the day.... Do you really think that this ascension business of the Planet is about ascension or do you think it might be about side stepping back to the original time line that the Creator had intended in the first place?

    My point being is that this altercation of the time line happened during the Egyptian age. How do we go about fixing that?

    Brook responds:'re close..but before I attempt to answer all of theses questions, I must wake up.
    For the moment think of this.....the density to be able to travel into the sun must be very light....
    The density of a reptilian is very heavy....this is why they prefer the the inner earth in parts...the hydrogen components of their being is very dense. To stay here on the surface of earth for any given time, you need the genetic coding of this planet. To do so, you need a source "frequency" to regulate and adjust. A tool to help one survive and adjust those frequencies.....a tool such as the discs....the properties to maintain a frequency to sustain your own frequency if you are from off planet.......remember the pyramids contain a "frequency" chamber......
    I'll be back to help you with the players and their roles."

    "Okay the best of my knowledge....

    Ra (Sun)/Sekhemt(feline) united and created Isis (feline/Sun), watcher for Ra. Isis took on Nephthys as her sister. Nephthys is hybrid? Feline bloodline?

    Sekhmet is the mother of Isis....Father unknown at this time...however it would not surprise me if it was Ra.

    Ra and Skehmet are the parents of Horus.... Isis is surrogate for Horus.

    Nephthys was the mistress of the house of Osiris and Isis....became a full fledged partner of Osiris. Se was most likely a feline hybred...but not the sister of Isis.

    Ptah/Thoth (brothers) are Annunaki

    Ptah and Thoth were not brothers.....they were Annunaki, Ptah being in charge of Operations, and Thoth, a close confident and scribe....discovered the properties of the discs...and helped Ptah to produce the "duplicate discs"...and was creator of the Emerald Tablets. Thoth moved up in rank, and was eventually ousted from Egypt, as "ambitious", and carried on his work with the discs as a "God" in the South American region.

    Osiris/Set (Annunaki/feline) (sons of Thoth or Ptah)?

    Osiris and Set are both Annunaki/ based.....and of "royal bloodline...however, at this time I'm not sure who's bloodline it is. I know it is not Sekhmet.

    Osiris/Isis marry and had Horus. Set eliminates Osiris. Ptah eliminates Isis.

    Osiris and Isis are married for royal lineage..however they do not have a child together. The child of Isis was the surrogate son of Ra, and Sekhmet.....done in the tomb of Osiris to convince Ptah that the work done was to create a child of the Annunaki /feline royal lineage....when in fact it was that of Feline/Sun and earth based lineage. No reptilian ...and when it was found that there was not reptilian bloodline....Set again went forward to take authority over the "throne"...which was taken from Isis in the first place. And handed over to Osiris, and Ptah..used by Thoth...remember there is a connection to the Throne and the's more than just a "chair" operated in conjunction with the discs...and it belonged to Isis....this is why they needed her in the first place....she had the genetic coding to the chair and the discs.

    Jesus came into being through Mary’s bloodline (Which is Sirian? Sameas Ra?) to do what Horus failed at doing. Was Horus eliminated and by whom?

    Jesus is not Sirian same as Ra.....They are just another spiritual faction that felt the calling to wake those who would listen, be able to discern the truth of who they are...remember Jesus said..."He who knows everything, but fails to know himself, misses the knowledge of everything"...they brought him here to bring some truth...but even his truth got turned into a ritual of "religion"....just like the words of a different fashion...but followed...and now is even popping into the "new age" movement with his words of "wisdom"....words of wisdom.....used to manipulate and put you in essence back to sleep if you let it.

    Horus was intended to carry on the feline lineage...and to an extent he did..however he got trapped, and Set could not foot the Thoth....after much torture, and pain....turned Horus into a slave to do their bidding. But he did not last long...and was quite fragmented.....after the fight from Set to gain control of the throne....Horus was just a "figure head'..the real leader was Ptah....with Thoth at the reins...but it was soon after that that Thoth got ousted....he was too power hungry...and it did not suite Ptah.

    Hathor – another bloodline? Allied with reptilians

    Lucifer – Angelic realm – turned evil Correct on Hathor and Lucifer The “Royal Bloodline” is Annunaki and Feline? “The Royal Bloodline are the Royals we speak of today?

    This is a very important answer....The "Royal bloodline" was that of the "Throne"...that of Isis....that of Sekhmet. It was stolen...and the symbolism of the "Throne" is used today with every so called "royal bloodline" since.....the only thing that made it "royal" in the first place was the "throne"...and it contained great power...and in the wrong created, an ever turning series of false royal lineage.....claiming that power of a "throne" that is in control of the frequencies of the discs.....that hide the truth. Today the throne is a symbol...but ask your self of what.....then look at these "royal thrones...and check out the composite make up of the jewels that surround it...and ask your self of the "crystalline" properties and power of these jewels and what they might actually be used for. Sounds crazy, I know...but together with the piezoelectric properties of the discs, and the chair to control have an unlimited power source. And this "throne" and Isis were both based in Atlantis prior to the coming of the Annunaki. Most thrones you see used in a public arena are simply symbols..the real ones have been replaced by technology now.

    The ordinary human bloodline – all of the above possibly? Did RA seed earth with “hybrids” and human’s DNA is a variety of bloodlines mentioned above?

    Where is RA while Thoth is running havoc? Is Ra the “God” in this case? Is he the good guy? Does he not know what is going on down here? Hathor/Lucifer also entities causing havoc, andtheir “bosses” are unable to control them as well? Doesn’t Universe care about all this running amok?

    Ra was not around when these guys were tampering with the goods.....and in the process destroyed Atlantis. Ra came to Egypt after the fact...and that is when things got hot for Ptah...and Ra decided to try to gain back some control...but this time there were many lives at stake here on earth...Ra was not a "god"...he was simply in charge of a mission...and tried to correct things...the most important thing Ra and Sekhmet did, was to Remove the real discs, because Isis pleaded with them to stop the madness. They were creating some very painful expermints besides what you have heard of here so far....what I would term..."abominations."

    Ra was simply in charge of a mission to assist life here on earth through frequencies. Give the planet what it needed to create it's own human for the frequencies here...and basically create a new civilization. the seeding of "lightbody" technology has been used since anciet times...and the ones in charge of that were the felines..but that was not the only group here. We were then, and still are a very diverse culture of beings here. It would depend where you came from to determine that. And remember most of the records of that have been erased with the sinking of Atlantis. For example...Lumarians are Pleadian hybrids. Isis traveled extensively all over using this technology in conjunction with the core disc in the earth to bring the lightbody to the frequency of the earth. After the initial use..all that was needes was to produce an offspring...and away you go. Now...the key here is the fragmenting and tampering of Thoth and Ptah to infiltrate, and create a slave race of humans that don't remember who they are. Instead of remembering one life stream. An altering of the DNA with frequency. The so called "matrix" that David Icke speaks of.....set up with a frequency pattern.

    The good news is.....the earths frequencies are changing..and so are ours. this is why they have been scrambling to figure a way to control the frequencies. They are in great fear of a grid tell bad would that actually be? Worst case it in a years time.....the fear is...they will be uncovered. The truth will come out...and people will start truly remembering....which will cause a chaos at first..then a rebellion....against who? The very ones in control of those frequencies. Even the armies of troops will start to realize who thay have been working will not be pretty for sure. But the truth sometimes never is."

    Archangel Michael = Isis = Cleopatra = Good Anna??!! Teachings of Isis = Teachings of Jesus??!! Did someone incarnate 2000 Years ago to bring the Creator's Message to the People? Were they exiled to the far east? Was Jesus Cesarian a usurper who corrupted this message? Did Constantine and the Council of Nicea further dilute and corrupt this message? Were nearly 40 books reduced to 5 books? Was this corrupted version of Christianity forced upon humanity for 1700 years? Are the True Teachings secretly held in the Vatican Archives? Do we need men and buildings to reach the Creator? Did the True Teachings tell people to seek enlightenment within themselves? Please watch the 1963 movie 'Cleopatra' over and over while studying this thread. Remember -- I am representing this thread as being a study-guide -- and NOT as being 'The Answer'. You will need to spend a helluva lot of time and energy with this madness to really 'get it'. I still don't really 'get it' -- even though this is 'my' thread. As I previously mentioned -- one dark night, someone looked me in the eye, and said "I am Ra". They later called me 'Michael', and asked me if I thought I might be the one hanging on the cross?? I didn't think so -- and I don't think so. What if Ra and Sekhmet were the parents of Isis and Jesus?? Think of this question in terms of a reincarnational soul basis. What if the REAL 'Jesus Story' is centered in Ancient Egypt?? Nuff Said.

    devakas wrote:
    magamud wrote:The idea of the cross is it is two paths, as in two masters.

    There is a binary relationship that springs forth from creation. God and the Devil.

    Its the fountain...

    Without knowing satans whole, how could you reflect Gods whole?

    Entertainment was designed to capture the imagination. Imagination is needed to vibrate love.

    Both paths are interwoven like a fabric. this is your pov

    Like clothes...

    which church did tell you that? Can you explain what is love? Can you explain what is 'fabric'? Can you explain a binary thing?
    this way of thinking and believing would never completely satisfy the Self

    Aquaries1111 wrote:
    magamud wrote:

    Do you really believe those debunking videos Magamud? Actually, the debunking videos make me want to watch the videos of the subject because basically, we are being advised "don't waste your time believing" and it's those types of videos I always watch because others don't want us to give any credence to..

    Now I will admit, I have not been a big Icke Fan, however, this does not mean (amen!) I am a disbeliever! Nothing is absolute except for existence and Icke breathes and lives.. That is all!


    Awareness Loves Life!

    Jenneta Jenneta Jenneta Jenneta Jenneta
    Carol wrote:I remember a few years back about some data suggesting an imminent pole shift. And before that was Nancy Lieder insisted the information the ETs gave her about a pole shift happening about 5 years back as well. Then another ET group stepped forth and informed another contactee I know that the pole shift is not on our timeline. I've come to the conclusion that it isn't worth worrying about. Whether a pole shift happens in our life span or not is something we have control over or even credible foreknowledge because the one thing I do know is that timelines change. Mercuriel and I were just talking earlier about how this one actor had died 3 times that we were aware of. The first from lung cancer because he smoked like a chimney. We look around and see evidence of weird goings on almost daily and can't even keep up with all the various news sources.

    This I do know. An inbound planet is not to far away. It is populated by the Annunaki. When it gets to 1 au from earth there will be some major earth changes and possible a pole shift. We still have to wait to see what will happen. Meanwhile, earth changes that were suppose to happen have been mitigated and appear to be unfolding at a more measured pace - as compared to abrupt, intense, one after another cataclysmic event. Some cataclysmic events we just won't know until they are upon us. But this I also know. The mind is non-local and also connected to universal cosmic consciousness. It is holographic in nature and each of us is a fractal, a part of the whole. Our awareness, our existance as a point of light affects the whole. There is no point in investing any of our personal energy in fear. Instead, our job, humble as it is - is to maintain balance and hold an image in our hearts of heaven on earth. That's it. Each being has the opportunity be participate as a conduit between the energies in the heavenly dimensional realm and this dimension. The more we can open up out hearts to this divine energy and pump it down into this dimension - the better outcome for humanity and our planet.
    I think I'd still like to do an interview-show from this incoming planet -- and I think I'd like to call it 'The Regressive Perspective'. Just Kidding! Siriusly, a while back, I suggested that they might take up a relatively circular orbit, safely beyond the orbit of Pluto, and become part of the new United States of the Solar System. According to what you are saying, Carol, this isn't happening -- but why do they have to get so close?! We don't even know them!! Are they essentially Black-Giants?? If so, would this necessarily be a bad thing?? I recently asked if we might basically be dealing with White-Nazis v Black-Giants?! I mean no racism or favoritism here. I simply don't know what the nasty issues and conflicts have been over the past ten-thousand years, or so. I've been trying to think in terms of one, big happy solar system family -- but I know not of what I speak. I have no idea regarding what races, beings, and agendas we might be dealing with. I just get the feeling that the Galactic Powers That Be are REALLY pissed-off...
    Carol wrote:The Annunaki's civilization is far more advanced then human-kind and they've swung by before. Is it once every 3,600 years in an elliptical orbit? I remember HD telling me the Annunaki wanted to control over human-kind. I wonder whose currently in control because if they already had control why would they want it now? And those who do know (ET negotiators within the Secret Government) what's going on aren't talking. We have leaked information, deliberate disinformation and speculation. What good is any of it? How can one prepare oneself of family against possible or even probable events unless they are in the know (go off-world into the future or the past; travel to one of the other off-world bases or another planet for that matter; or hang out in one of the underground cities or personal bunkers). Everyone else is just going to have to hope or pray for divine intervention. Some folks may be taken by ETs just prior to a cataclysmic event like in that movie "The Knowing." Somehow I don't think I'll be one of those folks. Even when offered the opportunity - it didn't seem my cup of tea as I wasn't inclined to have my consciousness put into a cloned body.

    In some respects I do envy some of those who get to have fun in the Space Command. And SG1 was always a personal favorite when it came to adventure and SciFy. It's comforting to think perhaps there is much more to it then just make believe.

    I still haven't figured out if I even want to reincarnate into a human form again. That's why it's so important to enjoy each precious moment here in the now - least there is regret of a life not fully lived later. I say this because of what my mother said a few days before she passed over. It took her whole life to pass by before she realized she had wasted it. I just found that very sad. So now, each night before dropping off to sleep I just pray that I stay in alignment with my pre-birth agreements and live life fully enjoying the beauty of nature (earth, mountains, deserts, valleys, canyons, foothills, plains/sky, colors, clouds/starry heavens/water - oceans, streams, ponds, lakes, rivers, rain), fish, all bird life, animals, children and family. I even enjoy most other races/cultures and am continually in awe by their human spirit. There is much to be grateful about every single day. So by being grateful one also is able to maintain a state of grace and harmony with what IS. Quiet the monkey mind, seek inner silence and listen to the music of the spheres. Pretty cool. However, I do need to add that even paradise has mosquitos (annoying distractions) from time-to-time. Fortunately the effects are fleeting and not worth giving too much attention to.
    Well said, Carol. I keep getting the feeling that what happens in this world is mostly the will of the gods and goddesses. Something seems to be playing-out on this seemingly god-forsaken planet which isn't nice. The more I try to think about the way things really are -- and the more I try to contemplate Heaven on Earth -- the more miserable and attacked I feel. Perhaps this is just my imagination and insanity -- but that's what it feels like. I'm almost to the point of just settling into conceptualizing a United States of the Solar System as a Big-Business where Appearances are Everything and the Bottom-Line is the Bottom-Line -- but in a highly transparent and ethical manner -- if you know what I mean. Perhaps we should assume that everything we say and do is somehow being viewed and recorded (electronically and/or supernaturally). I grew-up being told about Guardian-Angels and Recording-Angels so this wouldn't be anything new to me -- but I still think there is something fundamentally wrong about someone watching me in the bathroom -- and listening to me swear at interdimensional-reptilian intelligence-agents!! I think I'm just going to lay-low and study the 1898 Desire of Ages by Ellen White -- the 1928 Book of Common Prayer -- and the 1958 Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen -- and stay mostly non-controversial and under the radar. It's easier that way...

    Perhaps we're dealing with the Incoming Orion-Group in conflict with the Local Orion-Group. I keep thinking of Earth as being a Prison-Planet in Rebellion. I don't necessarily like the Traditions OR the Rebellions -- if you know what I mean. I keep trying to conceptualize Heaven on Earth in the form of a Hypothetical United States of the Solar System -- just to try to understand the madness. I'm presently quite interested in Supreme Courts (Worldwide). I'm interested in a rational, reasonable, and simple Interplanetary System of Rewards and Punishments. I'm interested in the Sovereignty of God relative to Human Responsible Freedom. Imagine Washington D.C., the United Nations, the City of London, and the Darkside of the Moon -- all in the Royal-Model Context of Vatican City!! I just said that I was going to lay-low -- and now look at me!! I'll eventually get around to finishing and refining this thread -- but this will probably take several months. I'll try to become neat, clean, retentive, polite, proper, respectable, marketable, etc, etc, etc. Again, I apologize for being a Completely Ignorant Fool. But Siriusly, take a long, hard look at yourselves and your leaders. You might need to do some changing, apologizing, and repenting. All of us might have very red faces before this madness ends -- if it ends...

    Is this thread a "Red-Herring" or is it the "Real-Deal"?? I think it might be a little bit of both. Just keep Ethics and Law in the Context of the Supreme Court of the United States of the Solar System at the center of your Solar System Studies, and I don't think you'll go too far wrong. I don't know what's going to happen -- and not happen. I don't know what's going to become of me. I really don't. I'm somewhat deep in despair -- and I don't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm expecting more of the same -- only different...

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri May 17, 2013 8:25 pm; edited 11 times in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 03, 2013 6:30 pm

    I really wished to accomplish something significant with my pseudointellectual research -- but this never really materialized. This whole process has left me feeling very empty and lost. I still think that the right researchers might find some missing-links in my work -- but I think this project has been yet another one of my failures. I will try my best to internalize the best of my studies -- in preparation for who knows what??!! I guess I'm really aiming for a Michael-Version of the Queen of Heaven -- as insane as THAT sounds!!! I guess I'm trying to imagine a conflict between Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer -- spanning thousands of years. I continue to speculate that Archangels morphed into Ancient Egyptian Deities -- and that they have everything to do with the past, present, and future of this solar system (and possibly beyond). My strange experience with one who claimed to be a particular Ancient Egyptian Deity seemed very real to me (regardless of who they really were or weren't). Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer = Isis, Horus, Set??!! I continue to think these three are a mixture of good and evil -- and that this is the place to begin serious esoteric research. But a word of warning: The more I study this subject -- the more supernaturally-attacked I feel -- and I truly don't believe it's all in my head. You probably think I'm insane -- and you're all probably right -- yet I think this topic might be ETREMELY important. If big and important people ever require the perspective of a Completely Ignorant Fool -- I'll do my best if the Price is Right!!! I'm Sirius!!!

    I will probably add to this thread -- mostly from material I've already posted -- but this project will probably be on-hold for a while. Please try to at least internalize this selective, edited, and condensed thread. I think you might find a unique and helpful perspective -- especially if you're already way, way, way down the rabbit-hole. That's who I'm really talking to. I'm not trying to destroy sensitive-souls who are already nucking-futs!! I'm trying to model an Archangelicentric-Approach to Life, the Universe, and Everything. I'm trying to be somewhat neutral regarding these three archangels -- even though it might not seem like it at times. I doubt there are many who have a clue what I'm trying to do. I'm not sure I even have a clue. I'm a Rebel Without a Clue. Consider yet another study-list:

    1. Psychology and Ethics.
    2. Astronomy and Biology.
    3. Politics and Religion.
    4. Business and Law.
    5. Writing and Music.
    6. Nature and Exercise.

    Perhaps I need a Science-Fiction Ghost-Writer to tie all of this madness together into some sort of a coherent storyline with market potential. Please contact me somehow. I still keep hoping that the famous relative of the person who attended Graham Maxwell's class many years ago will do something interesting with some of the best material in this thread (combined with genuine-insider interaction). I'm not going to say another word about THAT -- but some of you might know who and what I'm talking about. Don't mind me -- I'm just delusional and delirious. Also consider studying the following very intensively:

    1. Desire of Ages by Ellen White.
    2. Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen.
    3. Jesus of Nazareth by Pope Benedict XVI.
    4. Christ: The Experience of Jesus as Lord by Edward Schillebeeckx.

    Please remember that I simply wished to study with some of you -- but this never really materialized -- and now I feel as if I made a HUGE mistake by being so open, honest, and informal. I keep thinking that I don't belong here -- and that you'd rather see me gone -- permanently. Well, perhaps I can grant this perceived wish. I simply wish to be where I am needed and wanted -- and neither seems to be the case here. Is there somewhere in the universe which actually might benefit from my presence?? If such a place exists -- perhaps I should go there without delay. I do not wish to stay if I'm just going to be a pain. I'm certainly not enjoying this. Perhaps this incarnation was a HUGE mistake. I am so sorry to have bothered you. I'll try to be more careful and thoughtful in the future. I am very sorry for any trouble I've caused. This whole thing didn't work out at all. You have Top-People and Other-Than-People -- with Everything Under Control. I guess there's really no problem -- and everything is fine. Sorry for the negativity and stupidity. I won't let it happen again.

    The worst of the worst keeps getting swept under the rug -- and you don't seem to notice or mind. You seem to worship fame, fortune, power, and pleasure -- and you seem to excuse the worst of the worst -- as long as things are working out well for you. I certainly do not wish to get in your way -- or interfere with your lives in any way, shape, or form. You seem to be happy with your Gods. Perhaps you would like to spend all eternity with them. I think I see things much more clearly now -- and I can see that I'm nothing more than a fly in the ointment. You don't like me -- and I can see why. Humanity and the Managers of Humanity seem to have arrived at their decision regarding how things will be around here -- going forward for a very long time. I wish all of you well -- and I'll be watching with interest -- to see how well things work out for you. I guess I underestimated how well things were going on Planet Earth. Live and Learn.

    I subject myself to the fringe material to force me to think. I keep saying over and over that I treat all of the alternative stuff as science-fiction. I continue to attempt to weave a science fictional web which might help someone achieve a constructive understanding of our problems and predicament. A lot of times, I feel as if I am applying online shock therapy to anyone brave enough to analyze my tripe. I feel as if this is the launching pad phase -- rather than being the destination phase. Check out this madness!!

    I've done a lot of free-wheeling speculation about archangels -- not because I know a lot about the subject -- but because I just wished to intuitively explore some contrarian ideas. I will continue to model a three-faction -- three-archangel -- solar system in conflict -- regardless of whether this does any good, or not. I'll continue to think of Gabriel as being the Prosecuting Attorney Traditionalist who is opposed to Michael and Humanity. I will continue to think of Lucifer as being a clever, sinister, arrogant, and opportunistic punisher and exploiter of humanity -- sort of a Prodigal Son -- complete with riotous living and clever deceptions -- who nonetheless does Gabriel's bidding regarding throwing a monkey-wrench into the human-experiment. Then, there is Michael -- a well-meaning, yet failure-prone, nice-guy who just can't overcome an angry and jealous Gabriel and Lucifer -- or a rebellious, shallow, and disobedient humanity.

    I keep wondering if one solution might be for Michael to incorporate the best of Gabriel and Lucifer into their idealistic plans for humanity. Some might consider such talk to be somewhat blasphemous -- but I think we must consider as many options and possibilities as possible. I think we should positively-reinforce the best of everything -- throughout history -- and throughout the universe. Shouldn't we learn from all of our successes and failures?? Is there merit in both traditionalist and renegade approaches to life, the universe, and everything?? What if everything in the solar system should be left alone -- except for proper observation to occur?? I continue to think it would be cool to be some sort of a Solar System Quantum Diplomat-Observer -- with Absolute-Access and Absolutely Zero Power. You know -- someone who's always present -- but who is mostly seen and not heard. I can visualize this concept better than I can describe it. It's sort of a variation on the Quantum-Entanglement theme. Didn't the Founders say something about avoiding Quantum-Entanglements?? Guess not. Oh -- it was Foreign-Entanglements!! What about Alien-Entanglements?? BTW -- is the Greada Treaty still in effect?? Did it ever exist?? Who knows?? Who cares??

    I hate to say it, but this stupid quest has made life seem less and less attractive -- to the point that, at the rate things are going, I wonder if life will really be worth living in a few years. Is a Ultra High-Tech Police-State unavoidable?? Have we really hung ourselves with technology and irresponsibility?? Have we gone past the point of no return?? I keep wondering if some of the ideas expressed within this thread will have to be implemented at a much later date -- after things have REALLY gone to hell -- and just a couple of billion humans are still alive. The Hatred, WMD's, and Lack of the Best of Humanity -- combined with Angry, Jealous, and Vengeful Deities -- might be a Perfect-Storm of Utter-Destruction -- and we might be Utterly F@#$%^&

    I keep thinking of the 'Sandoval' character in 'Earth: Final Conflict' as being a Jesuit-Agent. I'm sorry to keep picking on the Jesuits -- but they are a significant part of my science-fictional plot. I think I fear them, respect them, and despise them -- simultaneously. What do you think about this clip?! I have mixed feelings. Some of the information might be true and accurate -- but I don't necessarily approve of the images and attitudes. I wish to mostly retain respectful-neutrality as I continue to ask difficult questions -- and as I examine troubling evidence. I picture Ronald Sandoval as being a devout Roman Catholic who understands the concepts of strict discipline and unquestioning obedience. He is very composed, very competent, and very dangerous. I could say more about this character, but I'd rather not. Here is an interesting lecture regarding the Latin Mass. I appreciated this priest's attitude, approach, and logic. Here is another presentation regarding the Latin Mass. I am not a Roman Catholic -- and I do not presently attend church -- but I am trying to passively study Roman Catholicism. I appreciate their Royal-Model approach to church -- yet I continue to be very troubled by many aspects of this historical and traditional religion -- historically and presently. This thread will not make sense if you fail to study Roman Catholicism. Actually, it might not make sense anyway. The thread is supposed to make all of us think about things which are difficult to consider. What Would Monseigneur Bowe Say?

    Once again, I am considering Life, the Universe, and Everything from the general perspective of the Egyptian-Roman Empire and Church -- but one must study this entire thread in order to have any idea where I'm really coming from. I am NOT Anti-Catholic or Orthodox-Protestant. I admire the courage and conviction of Martin Luther -- but I do NOT necessarily agree with his views. Do 'Luther's Works' strictly conform to the Teachings Attributed to Jesus?? Who has conformed most closely to the Life and Teachings of Jesus?? Are the Life and Teachings of Jesus an accurate revelation of the Historical Jesus?? Can we trust history (secular or sacred) with any significant degree of certainty?? What if most of history is pure, unmitigated popycock?? That Room with a Cray -- and that Unlimited-Access Badge -- might help me figure-out what's REALLY been going-on -- and what's REALLY going-on presently. But should I remain a Completely Ignorant Fool -- rather than eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?? Should I drink more Kool-Aid instead?? I still have not received an FOIA response -- which doesn't surprise me -- and which might be just as well. Ignorance is Bliss. I keep getting the sinking feeling that BOTH Divinity and Humanity are highly problematic -- and I KNOW that I am a Completely Ignorant Fool -- who is a nobody, trying to act like a somebody. The Horror. Am I safe to save and inform?? If I am subjected to the view from the Top of the Pyramid -- I might NOT like the view -- and there's no telling what I might do at that point. Siriusly.

    Is it significant that 'Earth: Final Conflict' was produced in the years leading up to 9/11 -- and ended within months of the 9/11 event?? Think about what Alex Collier, Leo Zagami, and John Lear have said concerning 9/11 -- which might relate to 'Earth: Final Conflict'. I could say more, but I'd rather not.

    Music and Images are VERY important components of this thread. Once again, one must take this thread as a whole -- or not at all. The context of any one post is the entire thread. Please do NOT take my posts out of context. This is extremely important. 'The Last Temptation of Christ' (pages 1-2) by Nikos Kazantzakis -- is also extremely important.

    "The dual substance of Christ -- the yearning, so human, so superhuman, of man to attain to God or, more exactly, to return to God and identify himself with him -- has always been a deep inscrutable mystery to me. This nostalgia for God, at once so mysterious and so real, has opened in me large wounds and also large flowing springs. My principal anquish and the source of all my joys and sorrows from my youth onward has been the incessant, merciless battle between the spirit and the flesh. Within me are the dark immemorial forces of the Evil One, human and pre-human; within me too are the luminous forces, human and pre-human, of God -- and my soul is the arena where these two armies have clashed and met. The anguish has been intense. I loved my body and did not want it to perish; I loved my soul and did not want it to decay. I have fought to reconcile these two primordial forces which are so contrary to each other, to make them realize that they are not enemies but, rather, fellow workers, so that they might rejoice in their harmony -- and so that I might rejoice with them. Every man partakes of the divine nature in both his spirit and his flesh. That is why the mystery of Christ is not simply a mystery for a particular creed: it is universal. The struggle between God and man breaks out in everyone, together with the longing for reconciliation. Most often this struggle is unconscious and short-lived. A weak soul does not have the endurance to resist the flesh for very long. It grows heavy, becomes flesh itself, and the contest ends. But among responsible men, men who keep their eyes riveted day and night upon the Supreme Duty, the conflict between flesh and spirit breaks out mercilessly and may last until death. The stronger the soul and the flesh, the more fruitful the struggle and the richer the final harmony. God does not love weak souls and flabby flesh. The Spirit wants to have to wrestle with flesh which is strong and full of resistance. It is a carnivorous bird which is incessantly hungry; it eats flesh and, by assimilating it, makes it disappear. Struggle between the flesh and the spirit, rebellion and resistance, reconciliation and submission, and finally-- the supreme purpose of the struggle -- union with God: this was the ascent taken by Christ, the ascent which he invites us to take as well, following in his bloody tracks. This is the Supreme Duty of the man who struggles -- to set out for the lofty peak which Christ, the first-born son of salvation, attained. How can we begin? If we are to be able to follow him we must have a profound knowledge of his conflict, we must relive his anguish: his victory over the blossoming snares of the earth, his sacrifice of the great and small joys of men and his ascent from sacrifice to sacrifice, exploit to exploit, to martyrdom's summit, the Cross."


    1. The Character of God.
    2. The Nature of God.
    3. The Ethics of God.
    4. The Law of God.
    5. The Liturgy of God.
    6. The Kingdom of God.

    Before and After:

    1. The Creation of the Human Being.
    2. The Exodus.
    3. The Crucifixion of Christ.
    4. The Second Coming of Christ.
    5. The Millenium.
    6. The Existence of Male and Female Human Physicality.

    How do I stop posting -- and start deeply studying this thread?? I can't seem to perform this seemingly simple task. I've bitten off way more than I can properly chew and digest. It hurts more than I can describe -- every time I post. I feel as if I need to stop posting -- sell my dump of a house -- get new teeth (at very great expense) -- buy a BMW or Ducati motorcycle -- and escape the madness -- while touring the world. I'd like to write and publish some Positive Science Fiction -- but it just isn't fracking happening. I continue to think that this thread is much too speculative and disruptive to make a big-deal about. This is probably the right time and place for this sort of thing. There's a time and a place for everything. Namaste and Godspeed.

    This is both sad and funny.

    What if God Got a Ducati?? What if We Didn't Have a Problem With That??
    magamud wrote:
    Do you really believe those debunking videos Magamud?
    Aquaires, it is with the cross analogy Jesus talks about. Or the cloth analogy.

    The anti christ is interwoven into the world. That is why you have christ in flesh and blood to help you understand human application and not go up in the air with Lucifers false light. A tell, is to where you are pointing to your source. This is another analogy to what christ was talking about.

    I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.

    John 10:9
    Perhaps I should become a street-preacher -- wear a "The End is Near!!" sign -- and yell "Turn or Burn!!" as people walk by -- minding their own business. Then again -- that might be a bad idea. I seriously thought about starting an outdoor ministry in a couple of outdoor amphitheaters in Los Angeles -- but I chickened-out when I realized that I'd have to lie to make the damn thing work!! I'm half-kidding and half-serious!! I agonized over this on long hikes in the San Bernardino Mountains -- just like Billy Graham and Alex Collier!! True story. Things just never felt right -- and they still don't feel right. I've tried to be open, honest, funny, and irreverent within this website -- and this obviously hasn't worked. Look at the tens of millions of YouTube views for the most obscene and ridiculous videos!! Perhaps the Human Race really is on life-support. I continue to think that humanity is an experimental-race intended to improve things in the universe -- but I sense that this experiment did not live-up to its potential or expectations. I further sense that now EVERYONE is Angry and ready to Fight. I'm just tired of agonizing over this madness -- especially when that places me on multiple lists -- and makes me crazy and/or possessed in the eyes of those who are so very superior to me. I think I'm going to do a lot of reading in nature -- and just drop under the radar (as much as possible). Anyway, I leave you with this. I can't say that life has been good -- but it's probably been a lot better than I deserved. Better luck next life -- right?!

    Life's Been Good - Joe Walsh

    I have a mansion, forget the price.
    Ain't never been there they tell me it's nice.
    I live in hotels, tear out the walls.
    I have accountants pay for it all.

    They say I'm crazy, but I have a good time.
    (Everybody say oh, yeah.....OH,YEAH)
    I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime.
    Life's been good to me so far.

    My Masarati does one-eighty-five.
    I lost my license, now I don't drive.
    I have a limo, ride in the back.
    I lock the doors in case I'm attacked.

    I make hit records, my fans they can't wait.
    They write me letters, tell me I'm great.
    So I got me an office, gold records on the wall.
    Just leave a message, maybe I'll call.

    Lucky I'm sane after all I've been through.
    (Everybody say I'm cool......He's cool)
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do.
    Life's been good to me so far.

    I go to parties, sometimes until 4.
    It's hard to leave when you can't find the door.
    It's tough to handle this fortune and fame.
    Everybody's so different, I haven't changed.

    They say I'm lazy but I have a good time
    (Everybody say oh, yeah.....OH,YEAH)
    I keep on going guess I'll never know why.
    Life's been good to me so far.


    In a sense, I don't mind the world being run from the shadows -- if it's being run by the good-guys. But that's the problem. Once one is in a position to participate in running the world from the shadows, the temptation to exploit the world from the shadows is probably overwhelming -- which is probably the main reason why I've been contemplating a United States of the Solar System -- which might be a lot like what we have right now -- but with more checks, balances, pomp, and circumstance. The major problem is that I don't know where the happy-medium is in all of this governance madness. I get the feeling that terrorism, warfare, market-manipulation, politician-manipulation, etc, etc have been integral components of how the world has been run from the shadows. The scary part is that if I had been involved in the shadow-government I might've done exactly what I find reprehensible in the powers that were (and might still be). There might not be any way to run the solar system without becoming as corrupt as hell -- and I wish I were kidding. I think one might be absolutely corrupted by the end of the first day on the job -- even if they didn't have absolute power. WMD's, Sabotaged-Electronic-Markets, Organized-Crime, Terrorists for Hire, etc, etc, etc scare the hell out of me. We might presently have enough technology to vaporize the whole damn solar system with the click of a mouse. Should we be proud of ourselves???? BTW -- Sherry Shriner talked about that April 28 Nuclear thing. I am somewhat fearful regarding some really nasty events in the coming days, months, and years. Too many things seem to be approaching critical levels. I continue to think that hidden factional-fighting is very real, very frightening -- and potentially the end of us all.

    I don't know much about the jumproom subject -- but I keep thinking of the movie Avatar -- and wondering if a lot of solar system travel occurs using those manufactured Greys (with the computer brains). What if you go to S-4 or wherever -- get into an Avatar-Machine -- and then control a Grey which controls a Sport-Model UFO??? The thing that really frustrates me regarding the stuff we study is that it's very difficult to verify or prove any of it. I love theology in one sense. I find it mind expanding and meaning generating -- yet I know that a lot of it is probably pure unmitigated popycock. That's the part I hate. In a sense, one should not study what we study (including theology and jumprooms) to try to find peace of mind. When you really think about it -- this alternative delving can be a very tough and nasty game. Perhaps Catholics who just show-up for Mass -- go through the motions -- donate some money -- and let the Vatican worry about theology and aliens -- are the smart ones -- even if the church is corrupt and the theology is BS!!! Why go to hell and back again, trying to know the unknowable?? As I've said so many times, I just treat all of this madness (including Christology and Soteriology) as Science-Fiction -- without trying to make converts. But still, I find this activity to be very depressing and draining -- especially when I meddle with religions and contemplate Star-Wars and the End of the World. This madness can become very intense -- especially if one has a vivid imagination and a quick abstract-mind.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Who Owns This Solar System? It Wasn't Stolen -- Was It? Where Did the Technology Originate? It Wasn't Stolen -- Was It? Where Do I Find a Copy of 'Grey's Intergalactic Law Dictionary'? What is the Origin of God, Nature of God, Location of God, Appearance of God, Character of God, Ethics of God, Role of God, Government of God, and Law of God? What if the King and Queen of the United States of the Solar System Served as Robed Judges in Responsibility and Constitutionally Based Court Proceedings in a Cathedral? If You Don't Approve of Robes and Cathedrals -- Would You Prefer That the Fate of the Solar System be Decided in the Local McDonalds? We Won't Really Be Happy With Anyone or Anything -- Will We? Why Try to Save the World If It Won't Be Appreciated? Perhaps I Should Delete and Renounce Everything I've Posted on the Internet and Spoken on the Telephone -- Forget the Whole Thing -- Sell My Dump of a House -- Buy a Ducati 1098R -- and Tour Europe -- In My Personal Version of 'On the Beach'. I live in the United States, but I'm trying to develop a Solar System Perspective. I just need to study every country and every planet. There's so much to do -- and I can't seem to do much of anything. I'm trying to mostly just read books and watch old sci-fi videos right now. I think I've said way too much already. Once again, I have an idealistic view of God -- but I still think that the Historical Theological Realities might be extremely dark and problematic. But really -- I don't know anything with much certainty at all.

    I wish I had gotten much better acquainted with Carol Rosin and Edgar Mitchell, a very long time ago. Things might've turned out a lot different. Unfortunately, I have recently become extremely disillusioned and depressed by my perceptions of an Insane, Ancient, and Ongoing Galactic Civil War Among Relatives. To complicate matters, I have determined that no matter what treaties or governmental systems are proposed and/or implemented, the nasty factional power struggles will continue. We seem to always wish to gain the upper-hand. My internet posting might be interpreted as attempting to gain the upper-hand in a round-about way. I constantly question my motives and reincarnational history. I sweat, shake, and even cry. Power is often gained through deceit, money, violence, and technology. I view the New World Order as being one aspect of the Galactic Factional Power Struggling. If the NWO gets stopped cold -- the New Guys might be a helluva lot worse -- who knows? Even if my beloved and seemingly well-intentioned ideas were accepted and implemented by the PTB -- things might still go to hell. The same Major Players would still exist. The Bitter Defeated would be licking their wounds and plotting their next move. The Triumphalist Victors would be in the process of becoming just as corrupt as the NWO Crowd they so despised. I still think we might be dealing with a Recent and Renegade Human Race -- in conflict with (and as a subset of) an Ancient and Traditional Reptilian Race. If the Human Race were exterminated, the conflict might continue in the Reptilian Realms. Perhaps this whole thing is a Reptilian Faction (in Reptilian Physicality) v Reptilian Faction (in Human Physicality). The fun might never, ever end. As a younger person, I had hoped for some sort of 'Heaven' -- but now I have very little hope for such an existence. Perhaps 'Purgatory' is as good as it gets. The Sovereignty of God, the Law of God, Absolute Obedience, and Responsible Freedom -- with a special emphasis on Intergalactic Space Law -- is a real Pandora's Box. I doubt that many people have REALLY thought this through. I am more frightened by all of the above than you can possibly imagine.

    You need to understand that my background is a belief-system wherein the soul is not immortal -- where the 'dead know not anything' (See Ecclesiastes 9:5,6) -- and where the righteous dead are resurrected at the Second-Coming of Christ -- and the unrighteous dead are resurrected at the end of the Millenium. I no longer hold to this view, but I retain a healthy fear and respect regarding supernatural experiences, spiritualism, seances, OBE's, remote-viewing, regression-hypnosis, etc, etc, etc. I will sometimes read the experiences of others regarding these realms -- but I will never involve myself in any of this. Also, you must understand that I am presently exploring the possibility that the Human Race is an Unwelcome Intrusion into a Theocratic Hermaphrodite Reptilian Universe -- and mind you -- I am NOT anti-reptilian. Heck, I still don't really know if they exist -- but I suspect that they do -- and I even suspect that Human Souls might be Reptilian in Nature. But most of this continues to be Politcal and Theological Science Fiction for me. I'm trying to specialize in this area (with an emphasis on Space Law). See the 'Hungry Earth' and 'Cold Blood' episodes of 'Dr. Who' for a hint of what I presently think might be possible regarding 'Reptilians'. My attitude toward them (if they exist) is probably similar to that exhibited by Dr. Who in those two episodes. I think I might've had some contact with a 'Hybrid' -- but I can't really be sure. I am presently very wary of BOTH the Reptilian and Human races. I'm wary of God and Satan. I'm even wary of myself. I think there is something very significant about Sirius, Aldebaran, M-42, and the Constellation of Orion. My religious background includes some isolated statements from the mid 1800's regarding 'Heaven' being located beyond the Orion Nebula. My present science-fictional-speculation is that all of the above might be a Reptilian-Realm from which our 'Human Souls' originated -- and that humanity is far from home -- and in rebellion against the 'Government of God' located somewhere in or around Orion. I have no way of knowing if this is indeed the case, but I will continue to conceptually model this view into the foreseeable future. Can you see why I want to get out of Dodge on a Ducati? And mind you, I said 'get out' -- not 'check out'. But if we are on the brink of extinction -- if the excrement really contacts the refrigeration system -- and things get really, really bad -- I MIGHT 'check-out' with some sort of dramatic 'On the Beach' Ferrari-Crash Ending -- except I'd do it on a budget -- with a Ducati.

    What I Am Doing Presently Seems Utterly Pointless. How many of my questions have been satisfactorily answered in the three or four years I've been posting on the internet? A dozen perhaps? Maybe not even that many. I've encountered a lot of superior attitudes -- but very few substantive answers -- and there's a difference between an 'answer' and a 'convincing-answer'. Some might say that my conversing with an Ancient Egyptian Deity constitutes 'Spiritualism' -- but I didn't seek this encounter in any way. I didn't chant. I didn't go into some altered-state of consciousness. I didn't do anything other than researching and posting on the internet. Even this deity refused to answer most of my questions -- and often answered questions with questions. Also, I don't jump off a cliff to experience the joy of free-falling -- and I don't reach into snake-holes or walk into caves in the desert -- to find out what's in there. My devotion to the scientific-method has limits. Many limits indeed. Somewhat unrelatedly, I really liked 'The Powers That Be', 'The Torment of Tantalus', and 'The Fifth Race' episodes of 'Stargate SG-1'. I don't seem to be able to view them anymore on the internet -- so I'll probably have to buy the entire DVD series when I can afford it. Same goes for 'Dr. Who'. I bought Stargate 'Children of the Gods', 'Ark of Truth', 'Continuum', and 'Atlantis' -- and I use them as 'conceptual-crutches' to aid my 'Science-Fictional-Research'. This is just the way I do things -- for better or for worse -- I know not. BTW -- I'm presently imagining myself to be a reincarnational cross between Dr. Who and Vala Mal Doran -- or is it a cross between Daniel Jackson and Samantha Carter???!!! Manage Quad???!!!

    Really, what I am doing seems way too dangerous as it is -- and I don't recommend that anyone (other than Mists-Regulars or Alphabet-Agents) do what I'm doing. This is the sort of thing which could potentially break-up marriages, get one fired, cause one to go insane, or to commit suicide. The subjects are that volatile -- which is why I wish to remain mostly low-key and incognito. What troubles me is theological in nature -- and not the theology you get in a church or seminary. I simply see how upset people get regarding politics and religion as usual -- and I know how certain religious leaders have reacted to some of my questions and statements, which were much milder than the fire I'm presently playing with. There is genuine discomfort connected with my research and speculation -- but I don't really think I'm crazy or going crazy. In a sense, I'm using this as a writing style, so that no one takes me too seriously. And really, I'm not an authority, so why should I act like one? I'm also trying to bring humor to some very serious subjects. I'm an 'in-control out-of-control person' -- sort of like a free-style clown on the ski-slopes. If I acted like this as a preacher or teacher -- I'd be fired and black-balled for damn-sure and for good-reason. But you know, what I post just scratches the surface. My posts are kindegarten-stuff. They're not complicated at all. A proper academic treatment of all of this would be something to behold. Can you imagine what I post being discussed by 2,000 Robed JD-PhD-ThD Representatives of the United States of the Solar System -- meeting in St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco -- with the remaining 8,000 JD-Phd-ThD Representatives from throughout the Solar System participating via InterPlaNet???!!!

    You'd have to dig into my threads to really begin to understand why I'm blue. I really do NOT wish to wake people up with what I've been dealing with. I had hoped to discuss and debate this material here in the Mists -- but this hasn't happened -- and this might be just as well. The Fukushima thing REALLY got me down -- and I don't wish to talk about why. I truly hope that Fukushima was not the first installation of a controlled demolition of the human race. I continue to be highly paranoid. What happened in Japan could happen throughout the world. I continue to seek an idealistic future for this solar system and the human race -- but it seems as though the Book of Revelation Scenario is predestined to 'play-out' -- presumably as a punishment-sacrifice-extermination. The crimes of humanity might be reprehensible -- but the crimes against humanity seem to be insanely irrational -- especially in view of the fact that our true history remains a mystery. Sorry for the negativity, but the more I reflect upon the fate of humanity -- the darker our future seems to be -- but I so hope that I'm mistaken. All of this really will have to be my private hell. To discuss this stuff in public would make my hell a helluva lot worse. Hence, my desire to get out of Dodge on a Ducati. I'll probably die trying to be happy -- but I've pretty much had it with this esoteric stuff -- which is sort of an endless loop of insanity. I tend to think it was set up to be this way -- and until someone at the top decides to change this state of affairs -- the insanity will continue. Unfortunately, I keep feeling as if those at the top have decided to exterminate the human race -- or at least exterminate the rebellious one-third of the angels (us?).

    Once again, there are closed-door meetings with ThD and PhD participants -- which lay all of this stuff out in great detail -- but they never invite me to such exclusive gatherings -- and that's probably just as well. I don't think we go to heaven when we die. If we did -- then all of us should head for the exits. In my case, at least, I suspect that death will introduce me to some sort of nasty tribunal, with a glaring judge and jury -- probably not human and not nice -- so I really would prefer to stretch this present darkness of mine out as long as I can -- before things get really dark. The REAL theological realities seem to be VERY dark -- but I completely understand faith, positive-thinking, and self-esteem -- and it might be time to stop attempting to face reality -- and simply conclude 'there's no problem, I'm terrific, and everything's fine'. It is a bit sad, however, to consider those who seek to face reality and solve the world's problems -- as being mentally-ill. I keep trying to help save humanity, which includes me -- but if living in a dreamworld and riding a Ducati while I worship 'I know not what' is my salvation -- then perhaps I need to move in this direction, with all deliberate speed -- say 175mph. Good-Luck With Whatever You Think You Want. After You Have Exhausted All of Your Options With Your Chosen Partners -- You Might Wish to Reconsider Mine -- and Then Refine Them to Suit Your Elevated Tastes and High Standards. I'm Sorry This Didn't Work Out. Namaste and Godspeed.


    1. Orthodoxymoron
    2. Project Isis
    3. Saint Ouen and Saint Sulpice
    4. 16 Tycoons Agree to Give Away Fortunes
    5. Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton
    6. Orthodoxymoron Threads
    7. Amen Ra, et al
    8. Lucifer, Pagan Rome, Alexander the Great, Constantine the Great, and Papal Rome
    9. The United Nations and the City States
    10. Ancient Technology
    11. What is Gizeh Intelligence?
    12. Grace Cathedral
    13. Moral Responsibility
    14. The KGB Psychic Files
    15. Swiss Politicians to March on Bilderberg to Demand Resignation of Kissinger
    16. The War on Democracy
    17. No End in Sight
    18. The New Rulers of the World
    19. The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!
    20. Strange and Interesting Videos
    21. Battlestar Phobos?
    22. Old World Order v New World Order
    23. Resurrecting the Dead Sea Scrolls
    24. Holy Cannibalism
    25. The History of Orthodox Christianity
    26. Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview
    27. How Should We Then Live?
    28. Banned From the Bible
    29. The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers
    30. Eric Jon Phelps
    31. Pharaohs, Emperors, and Popes
    32. Death and Taxes
    33. Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System
    34. The Jesuits
    35. Teutonic Zionism
    36. Trans-Humanism and Genetic-Manipulation
    37. Fame, Fortune, Power, Pleasure, and Appearances
    38. Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening
    39. The Roman Empire Rules Today
    40. The University of Solar System Studies and Governance
    41. The Hidden Story of Jesus
    42. Basiago and Stillings Confirm Barack Obama Traveled to Mars
    43. Healthcare in Critical Condition
    44. Osiris-Isis-Horus-Set and the Orion-Sirius-Egyptian-Roman Empire
    45. War Games: The Dead Code
    46. Tibet, Kali, and the Trinity Goddess
    47. Ring of Power
    48. New Mass Translation Changes
    49. The Holy Tablets
    50. Minimalist Tradtionalist Spirituality
    51. The Church of England and the City of London
    52. Three Interesting Ladies
    53. Reptilian Queens
    54. My Cure for Complacency
    55. Red Letter Church
    56. Who is Lucifer? What Are They Doing?
    57. Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the U.S. Constitution
    58. Essential Minimalist-Traditionalist Theology
    59. The United States of the Solar System
    60. The Ten Commandments Revisited
    61. Sovereignty of God -- Absolute Obedience -- Human Sovereignty -- Responsible Freedom
    62. Responsibility-Based Law, Government, and Religion
    63. The Mists of Avalon: Soldiers of Reason in a Galactic Rand Corporation?
    64. Law, Politics, Religion, Journalism, Conspiracy-Theories, and the Scientific-Method
    65. Today on the Alex Jones Show
    66. Who is Lilith?
    67. International Space Law
    68. Is Greed Good? The Psychology, Ethics, and Theology of Buying and Selling
    69. Exopolitics and Dr. Michael Salla
    70. The Solar System is a Big Business -- Apprearances are Everything -- the Lies are Different at Every Level -- and the Bottom-Line is the Bottom-Line.
    As you know, I try to be open-minded. I'm probably way too open-minded -- but I draw the line with the misuse, abuse, torture, killing, and sacrifice of human-beings (and anyone else, for that matter). We need to completely eliminate this sort of thing (and bring everyone associated with it to a harsh and unyielding justice). I continue to be troubled by the blood-atonement and human-sacrifice in the Bible. I get the feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Consider, for example, the various reports about Bohemian Grove -- and various rituals with the big-shots of the world present. This world is sick and filthy to the nth degree -- and needs to be healed and cleaned-up with all deliberate speed. I have a very difficult time dealing with this sort of thing -- and I tend to move-on -- but perhaps I shouldn't. Perhaps none of us should. I think it's probably obvious by now that I've gotten it wrong -- but I think this has more to do with being exhausted and miserable than with being stupid and rebellious. I have no idea what my relationship might be relative to the major factions at work in this universe. I am VERY apprehensive regarding this matter. Here is someone who got it right IMHO. Here is yet another variation on my famous study lists:

    1. Torah.
    2. Psalms.
    3. Proverbs.
    4. Gospels.
    5. Hebrews.
    6. 1928 Book of Common Prayer and Liturgy.
    7. Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen.
    8. Desire of Ages by Ellen White.
    9. Federalist Papers.
    10. Astronomy Textbooks.
    11. Biology Textbooks.
    12. Sacred Classical Music.

    I'm taking a bit of a break from the internet -- but I just wanted to say that links go dead rather quickly -- and I am presently focusing on transferring and editing my 'main' thread -- and pretty much letting the others go. I'd like to do more on this website -- yet my internet activities seem quite unsatisfying to me -- and I'm looking for other creative outlets. Regarding the church being a business -- I don't have a problem with churches (or just about anything) being businesses -- but no business (especially a church) should misuse, abuse, and lie to people. On the other hand, just about everything involves some sort of deception. I'd simply like to see everything move up a moral notch or two. There is so much that is right with the world -- yet there is so much which seems to need improvement. I really think this world and humanity are presently undergoing some sort of Galactic-Judgment -- and I am VERY apprehensive regarding the verdict and sentencing. I tend to think that both Divinity and Humanity are being evaluated. I continue to think that this whole solar system affair is a VERY messy and nasty one -- at all levels. Again, I simply desire that things be better for all concerned. The Ancient and Secret Stuff is sort of cool -- but I certainly do not wish to be enslaved or exterminated -- nor would I ever wish to enslave or exterminate anyone (human or otherwise). I think I'll just keep studying this website and watching Stargate SG-1 -- while letting everything settle, and hoping for everything to work out well for all concerned.

    I continue to think of the Biblical Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation as being Sentences Against Humanity rather than simply being Histories of the Future. I continue to think of Earth as being a Prison Planet in Rebellion. I continue to think in terms of an Ancient and Other-Than-Human Traditional-Civilization in conflict with a Recent-Renegade Human-Civilization. I continue to conceptualize the Pros and Cons of Both Civilizations -- even though this involves mostly guess-work and reading between the lines of just about everything. I continue to experience misery and suffering 24/7 in connection with all of this -- and I am NOT kidding. As always, look at everything (especially the crazy stuff) from every possible angle (without doing much of anything). I know this -- yet I never seem to have the energy and discipline to practice what I preach. Part of me wants to be in the middle of the madness -- and part of me wants to forget about the whole damn thing -- and just rejoin 'normal' (screwed-up) humanity!! After all of this madness settles in my soul -- I really just wish to move on -- without making a big deal about any of it. Then, when someone talks to me about any of the subjects I've agonized over, I might simply smile! BTW -- if religion is a business -- then why not make business into a religion??!! How about reading The Wall Street Journal while listening to sacred classical music??!! Then, when you make lots of money -- give most of it to your favorite worthy charities!!
    Mercuriel wrote:I am sorry My Brethren...

    Steel Thyselves - The Sorrows are upon Us...

    The Path steepens...

    That sounds ominous, Mercuriel. I get the feeling that the decision was made thousands of years ago to end the Human-Experiment at a pre-determined date -- regardless of the success or failure of Humanity. The reasons and rationalizations might vary -- but the ultimate-result would never change. I so hope that I'm wrong -- and I obviously desire a reformed and refined world -- yet I desire evolutionary (rather than revolutionary) change. Some say that a regime-change combined with NESARA would go horribly-wrong right from the beginning. I don't know, but I sense that any and all idealistic plans for 'saving the world' will be infiltrated, subverted, corrupted, and screwed-up right from the start. Just look at history. What might be really interesting is for me to go completely silent for five or ten years -- and just study what I've posted over the past few years -- and then emerge with a PhD-level of knowledge regarding what I've been modeling. I'm really too close to this material -- and it's really too recent -- for me to be able to give it a proper academic treatment. Sometimes it's good to know when to stop. But realistically, it might very well need to be someone else who truly becomes the authority on this area of research (in general) and orthodoxymoron (in particular). It's probably impossible for me to be completely detached and objective. Besides, the spiritual-war thing seems to leave me completely exhausted and frazzled. I doubt that this will change for the better, anytime soon. I think I've been marked for the rest of my life. Researchers Beware. Remember, this thread is intended to make us think -- through a variety of literary devices. I have tried to shock you, make you mad, make you defensive, etc, etc, etc. I am NOT this way in real-life. I sometimes feel like an Elder-Statesman Completely Ignorant Fool!!

    I am not necessarily supporting or opposing the following. I include a lot of things in this thread to stimulate all of our thinking. This thread is a real zoo of ideas and concepts. Please think for yourselves.

    We Are You wrote:

    (Posted @NESARA- REPUBLIC RESTORED, edited by Ricky Seraphico).

    We THE People And as Interim President, 12 May 2013 Initiate the orders of We THE People.

    We THE People who are the Civilian Authority with superior lawfull position over the U.S. Corporation and U.S. Military acting under the Original Jurisdiction of the United States Constitution 1789, Bill of Rights 1791 with the original 13th Amendment=”which removes persons who has an entitlement from holding public office” as the United States of America, Republican form of Government, standing as the true form of Government is proud to announce the following effective IMMEDIATELY.:

    As Interim President=Commander in Chief of the Republic it is the duty of this de jure office to ensure the orders issued to the United States Military , Secretary of the Treasury, Provost Marshall and its Public Servants are carried out within the proper time as required by We THE People of The United States of America.

    This announcement is for We THE People of the United States of America and our Friends World Wide and To Chief of Staff of Joint Chiefs, Field Generals, Admirals, Office of General Council for Pentagon, Secretary of the Navy, Trustees of the Constitution and Office of the Inspector General, Provost Marshal, Flag Officers and Secretary of the People's Treasury;

    This announcement and order is to the Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew, the Flag Officers assigned to The Secretary of the Treasury Mr. Jack Lew and the Provost Marshall,

    You are hereby ordered to use any force including EXTREME PREJUDICE toward any and all public officers including any and all people in the U.S. Corporation=Internal Governmental Departments=Agencies, Individual Corporations=Organizations, and any other Entity=sentient beings WHOM are delaying=derailing= holding up=stopping any other delaying manipulation tactic on the execution of the following announcements and orders:

    The Flag Officers assigned to The Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew and Provost Marshall is ordered to commandeer all main stream television and radio broadcasting companies and start the announcements that have been prerecorded to inform the Nation: The Republic being re-set, shutdown of the US Corporation (founded in 1871), The shutdown of the Federal Reserve (99 Year Contract Ended), All Debt caused from the US Corporation and / or Federal Reserve is not the responsibility of We THE People of the United States of America!

    ii. The collector of this debt shall look to and upon US Corporation and its CEO / Presidents, their staff including Legislative and Judicial holders plus the Executives of the Federal Reverse to repay ALL DEBT from their wealth which they stole from the We THE People!

    iii. Furthermore, the US Corporation Past and Present President, Vice President, staff, Legislative and Judicial are classified as Corporate Contractors or Actors who do not have the lawfull standing for the positions they currently occupy. Therefore, they are trespassing upon We THE People’s rights and liberties and are subject to our Constitutional Laws for Fraud, Treason, Misrepresentation, Embezzlement of our Currency, Unlawfull taxation and more.

    All damages shall be paid to We THE People by Seizing their assets and freezing their funds on-shore and off-shore bank account, safe deposit boxes, Precious Metals stashes, any storage, and depositing all recovered items back into the Peoples Treasury.

    The shutdown of the Internal Revenue Service=IRS (taxation was repealed by Congress in 1939 and has been in operation fraudulently and while working for foreign agents it has fraudulently told the American people that is a department of the Treasury) to Immediately begin broadcasting the educational=truth of this nation's true history.

    The Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew is established and operating under the Republican form of Government as the true Treasury

    The Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew will:
    a. Conduct a forensic audit of the IRS, freeze all assets, shut down all IRS operations and return all stolen funds to We THE People of The United States of America by depositing the returned funds in the Peoples United States Treasury.

    b. All bankruptcies of the United States to date are terminated.

    c. All debt tied to the social security numbers shall be set to zero. ->Due to corrupt and unlawful banking practices and corrupt and unlawful government activities ALL injured parties shall be notified immediately following these actions and public announcements on all major media outlets shall commence immediately.

    d. Remove=Terminate all unlawful taxation on all privately held property=land=labor.

    e. Remove=Terminate all private personal income tax and private business taxation. The return all government agencies CAFR=off book accounts and all court CRIS account funds to the Peoples United States Treasury.

    i. CAFR=Consolidated Annual Financial Report<!

    ii. CRIS=Court Registry Investment System Restore financial privacy to all private sentient beings.

    h. Introduce the United States Treasury currency (UST) backed by Gold and other Precise metals replacing the Federal Reserve Note effective IMMEDIATELY.!--[endif]--Release the 1.5 Trillion dollars of the Wanta-Regan-Mitterrand Protocols into the United States Treasury for We THE People!--

    j. Announce the largest banks in United Sates of America are now Basel 3 Banking Regulations complaint along with several hundred mid-size banking institutions.

    i. Basel 3 - A comprehensive set of reform measures designed to improve the regulation, supervision and risk management within the banking sector.
    ii. Basel 3 - Largely in response to the credit crisis, banks are required to maintain proper leverage ratios and meet certain capital requirements protecting the end customer.

    4. The “Fines & Penalties”, Foreign Currency Revaluation, Prosperity Packages, the Global Settlements Program, Prosperity Packages, Native American Claims, Humanitarian funds are to be paid out simultaneously effective IMMEDIATELY.

    5. The Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew will oversee the delivery Sunday 12 May 2013 to all recipients of the Farm Claims=Fines and Penalties=Farm Claims Class Action Law Suit Settlement=Bank Claims=Resolution Trust proceeds to the people;

    a. The Farm Claims shall be moved to the Royal Bank of Canada for complete delivery=disbursement effective IMMEDIATELY.

    b. The Farm Claims Lawsuit shall be unsealed and made part of the public record with=by publication, posting on the internet which is freely accessible to the public at large and=or full disclosure to all claim participants. The executive order that has kept this information hidden was done with the intent to defraud the people and has delayed the execution and delivery of the settlement.

    c. These claims shall be delivered using any of the following methods of delivery or all of them together; National Guard, County Sheriffs, Bonded Couriers, Registered Mail, and the Organized and Unorganized State Militias.d.There shall be NO taxation, NO fees, NO NDAs, NO hidden=misleading language, NO terms or condition or forms that create a contract causing loss of value through BANK FRAUD=MANIPULATION against the private citizen's.

    6.The Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew shall conduct the release of the foreign currency exchange to all tier three foreign currency holders known as the "U.S. Treasury Hold" on the participating banks Sunday 12 May 2013 and:

    a.To communicate on all main stream media channels that the global re-set has occurred every hour for the next seventy- two (72) hours.

    b.All banks are to make the hours of operation from 07:00 AM to 24:00 PM daily for the next ninety (90) days.

    c.All tier three foreign currency holders shall be given VIP=Group rates with NO taxation, NO fees, NO NDAs, NO hidden=misleading language, NO terms or condition or forms that create a contract causing loss of value through BANK FRAUD=MANIPULATION against the private citizen's when they exchange their currency.

    7. The Secretary of the Peoples Treasury Mr. Jack Lew will release the Global Settlements Program, Prosperity Packages, Native American Claims, and all other programs and claims of a similar nature on 12 May 2013.

    It is Ordered, sentenced, and decreed by the Political Will of the People~

    Date: Autograph:
    Appellation: Interim President The United States of America

    Reference: Contempt of the Constitution, Declaration of Independence circa 1776 and 2012, Orders #1-10

    I just wish to make it clear that I seek the salvation, reformation, and refinement of the human-race -- and NOT the torture, enslavement, extermination, and damnation of humanity. I don't know what I've said in previous incarnations -- but that's what I'm saying in this particular incarnation -- with the limited knowledge and wisdom I presently have. Once again, imagine the Supreme Court of the United States of the Solar System meeting at St. Ouen!! Namaste and Have a Nice Day!! 1. 2. 3. 4.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri May 17, 2013 3:50 pm; edited 37 times in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 03, 2013 6:38 pm

    I'm not going to beg. I'm not a lap-dog or a potted-plant. At some point, the Ancient Egyptian Deity broke-off contact with me (for whatever reasons). I suspect they had a plan for me, which I was not in harmony with, and for which I was probably too screwed-up to participate in anyway -- so the AED terminated contact with me -- and I might be lucky that they didn't terminate ME (I never ate that 'Last Supper' prepared by the Ancient Egyptian Deity's 'Mother' right before a 'very important meeting' they attended. We never met again, although we subsequently spoke to each other sporadically for several months. The last time we spoke, they didn't seem friendly at all (unlike our previous conversations). They told me a lot -- without telling me much -- so I probably knew too much -- even though I was a Completely Ignorant Fool (CIF). We're in HUGE trouble if a Completely Ignorant Fool is a Threat to National Security!! I don't know who the AED really was. They might've been the real-deal, or they might've been a Chip Implanted Hybrid (CIH) through whom the 'real-deal' could monitor our conversations, and through whom they could occasionally converse with me. At times, the AED seemed to take on a very different personality. The encounter was very interesting, but very chilling. I have been VERY restrained in reporting upon what happened to me, and you must do a lot of digging and reading between the lines of this thread to put at least some of the puzzle together. I keep thinking about 1. A Very Talented 'Angelic' Person I knew a long time ago. 2. Someone Like Inigo Loyola. 3. The Ancient Egyptian Deity. 4. The Zo'or-Inhabited Atavus. 5. Restac and Alaya in the 'Cold Blood' episode of 'Dr. Who'. 6. 'Anna' in 'V'. 7. Sherry Shriner. a. b. c. 8. Starbuck's 'Mom' in 'Battlestar Galactica'. 9. 'Kate' in 'East of Eden'. 10. 'Dr. Mataros' in the 'Termination' episode of 'Earth: Final Conflict'. 11. Rachael Constantine and/or S.R. Haddon in 'Contact'. 12. 'Ra' in 'Stargate'. 13. 'Kitesh' in 'Stargate Continuum'. 14. 'Hathor' in the 'Hathor' episode of 'Stargate SG-1' 15. 'Seven of Nine'. 16. 'Lilly' in 'Star Trek: First Contact'. I could say more about 'Lilly' -- but I'd rather not. Might a composite of these individuals approximate certain characteristics of the one I think MIGHT be at the center of Solar System Governance?? Just something to keep you awake at night!! Notice especially Part 5 (at 6:15) where Dr. Mataros speaks in Biblical Terms and speaks of 'Three Sisters in Arms' who are 'Very Much Alike'. Might she be speaking of Three Archangelic Queens of Heaven (in a rather round-about and cryptic manner)?? Remember in the second season of 'V' when Erica dreams that Anna tells her 'You're just like me'??!! Are we dealing with an Idealistic-Anna v Corrupted-Anna?? Is it even possible to 'Rule the Solar System' without becoming highly compromised and corrupted?? Perhaps the only way to retain 'purity' is to remain a 'Sanctimonious Outsider -- Wearing a Puritanical Skirt'!! Think About It. What Would Raven Say?? BTW -- who is the lady at 01:13:00 of this Bill Cooper lecture?? Does anyone know what she is doing presently?? She sounds a bit like Dr. Mataros -- doesn't she?? Why would just anyone be so upset with Bill?? Carefully analyze that voice.

    I wish I could print money (like the Federal Reserve Bank) to pay cash for a brand-new 5,000 square-foot underground luxury home with a Cray, a Fisk, a Prius, and a Sexy-Brilliant Housekeeper-Assistant!! Just Kidding. Notice that in 'Earth: Final Conflict' Lili Marquet and Rene Palmer have French names. Remember what I previously joked about, saying that I imagined myself to be a '(Rene)gade French Jesuit Organist'?? It might be cool to live in Augur's Pad -- located 700 feet below St. Ouen!! Imagine Augur playing the pipe-organ at St. Ouen!! I loved the 'Augur' character!! I loved Augur's intellect, personality, style, clothes, computers, and home!! Notice that the church in the series was named 'St. Michael's Church', and that its cornerstone was consecrated on July 22, 1789. Watch the 'Resurrection' episode from the first season -- and notice the plaque at the top of the elevator. Think about this in light of what I've talked about throughout this thread. I sometimes feel a bit like the Da'an character -- as strange as that sounds!! The wisps of white light that I sometimes see, right in front of my face, are very similar to the wisps of white light within the Taelons. I sometimes feel as if I have recently conversed with the Zo'or and Liam characters -- as strange as that sounds!! Imagine Zo'or and Da'an discussing theology!! What if Liam Kincaid fought side by side with Da'an -- but eventually sided with Zo'or -- to save his life -- and to gain power?? Think about it. Was Howland's Son -- God's Son?? Think about it. Is Rene Palmer somehow related to Palmer Joss?? I swear that I am related to an 'Anna' with a French name and a name related to the substitutionary-atonement -- as strange as that sounds!! Please know that my understanding of our predicament is MUCH deeper than that which I have presented within this thread. I have been an actor on a very private stage. We are all actors, actresses, and game-players -- aren't we?? Unfortunately, many of our acts and games are VERY destructive. We need to get our acts together and clean up our acts -- don't we?? In the coming months and years -- I will be taking a very private and very serious approach to life, the universe, and everything. I am VERY humbled -- VERY shaken -- but NOT stirred. BTW -- I think I know who certain 'Mystery Persons' are -- but I'm NOT talking about it. Let's just say that I know a helluva lot more than I talk about -- and it scares the hell out of me. I continue to be extremely apprehensive regarding Ancient Doctrines, Covenants, Treaties, Wars, Realms, Races, etc and et al. I maintain that LAW is at the center of EVERYTHING -- but I continue to sense deception, nastiness, and spiritual-wickedness in the heavenlies. I've taken a break from Frank O'Collins' material. That 'Reverencing Demons' bit sort of got my goat. Again, definitions and qualifying terms are exceedingly important. I'd be interested to see what sort of verdict a Dream-Team of Lawyers and Theologians would render regarding Frank's work. I like the general idea -- but I'm VERY wary regarding the implications and ramifications of what Frank has created. I've been told that I don't want to know about the treaties, covenants, agreements, etc. which this solar system operates under. I once heard a pastor say that very few people know how much it really costs to keep light on the Earth. I just keep assuming that things have been VERY bad for a VERY long time -- and that they will continue to be VERY bad for a VERY long time. I'm not expecting any 'quick-fixes'.
    Eartheart wrote:We have come around this battlefield telepathy in nonlocal fashion, Malletzky
    have told your MF to stand aside & "decist", now you're down & emptyed,
    infiltrations cleared, Mars & DUMBS gone awry, funds/transvers locked,
    greys imploded, reptor bases raided, all of 3Dim fearless now and we united,
    your inner and outer domains virtualy are beyond duration date, timeout!!!
    Argh Oooyeah 1 Oooyeah 1 Oooyeah 1
    While some see the prophecied ID-Split this week, which would leave you
    to your own nightmares, i hereby agree with our omnidim consensus de facto,
    leaving your darkly enteties not even that mercy seats, no further ID, no realm
    to spook on, no lifeforces to feed your loops of reverse coded oscillations,
    as your Mpires made from objectable thoughts and memory-layers will be poofed
    beyond your wildest imagery. We're uncreating your realms. As side effect...
    Lmao Whistle
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Eartheart wrote:If we depart from the primary idea that this whole 3d-life we are experiencing on this planet is one big illusion, it is logical to conclude that its expected abolition in the current End Times cannot be achieved by making structural – social, economic and political – changes and reforms within this illusion. The whole illusion must be eliminated at one fell swoop. Similar we've here the reason why Oxy's hickup makes him spin like a western dervish around the sun... What if Oxy want to become the second son/sun?
    Who and What existed prior to the creation of Male and Female Human Physicality?? Who created Humanity -- and Why?? I keep hearing Extermination-Language. Is the Extermination of Humanity the Final Solution to the Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan in the Conflict of the Ages?? If a Pristine 1958 Ferrari 250 TR needs a tune-up -- should it be destroyed?? (Good luck synchronizing those 12 carburators!) If someone has a tooth-ache -- should they be murdered?? Should the beings who have been screwing-up this solar system and the human race for thousands of years -- then turn around and destroy the solar system and the human race -- because the solar system and the human race are screwed-up?? Read the Old Testament, the Book of Revelation, the 'Gods of Eden', and the 'Great Controversy'. This is NOT a pretty picture. What's wrong with this picture? BTW -- I simply enjoy watching and commenting.
    The view-count for this thread has virtually stopped. That should tell me something significant. This phase of my mission is probably over. I fear that this world is so far gone that things are going to get really bad for a very long period of time -- before there is any hope of making things better. I have tried to contemplate a somewhat idealistic modality of solar system governance, without knowing what I'm doing -- but even if I were a multidisciplinary genius, I doubt that anyone would listen -- and even if they did, there would probably be too much negative momentum to be able to 'save the world'. I am more despondant than you can imagine. I'll keep thinking about this madness, but I'm mostly going to live a life of quiet desperation. I see a train-wreck in our future -- no matter what we do -- and no matter who runs the show. If there is a regime-change, the New-Guy is likely to be the Fall-Guy. What if a Reincarnated Jesus Christ will be set-up to be the Fall-Guy??? What if the PTB (Human and Otherwise) plan to stage a Disingenuous and Half-Hearted Second-Coming of Christ and a Provoked Alien-Invasion as a cover for the crash of a corrupt and unsustainable religious, political, and financial system -- while the Big-Shots laugh all the way to the Bank of Sirius -- and We the People get Royally-Screwed One More Time????? This thread should NOT be viewed as being a position-paper. It is exploratory in nature. I suspect that my editorial views in previous incarnations might be quite different than the positions I SEEM to have taken over the past several years. You MUST understand my high-levels of discomfort and frustration. It almost seems as if I have been intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually restrained and manipulated during this present incarnation. I feel as if I am functioning at approximately 10% of my potential -- if that much. Is this part of some plan I agreed to, prior to this incarnation?? I have no idea. I just know that my level of sadness, misery, and incapacitation is quite severe. In spite of all of this, I think I have given all of you some important clues and concepts. Study them diligently, and use them wisely. I MIGHT be back up to speed in my next incarnation -- but this present life seems to be a complete waste. Sorry about that. I have an overwhelming conviction that I should terminate this thread. This conviction keeps getting stronger and stronger -- even though I keep posting and posting. Continuing this thread will simply make me more and more frustrated -- without changing a damn thing. I tried to help, and you wouldn't give me the time of day. It wouldn't surprise me one little bit if the following prediction becomes a reality. At this point, I'm basically preparing for enslavement and/or extermination. Please consider spending some quality time with 'V', 'Star Trek', 'Star Wars', 'Stargate SG-1', 'Earth: Final Conflict', 'The Event', 'Dr. Who', 'Battlestar Galactica', 'Day the Earth Stood Still', etc. Please take a VERY close look at 'Earth: Final Conflict' in connection with this thread. They dovetail very nicely -- in a very frightening manner. Also, watch Stargate SG-1 'Pretext' and 'Shades of Grey' from the 3rd or 4th season. Am I doing sort of what Jack did -- by constructing this strange thread?? Might this be a 'Sting' without me realizing it?? BTW -- the 'Lady-Leader' is VERY cool. That type of 'Leading-Lady' keeps recurring in science-fiction -- and I think I know why. A Scholarly Astronomy-Centered Multidisciplinary-Study of Science, Governance, Religion, Science-Fiction, Fringe-Research, and Conspiracy-Theories might be quite beneficial to humanity -- but this is a VERY DIFFICULT PATH -- so PLEASE DO NOT go insane or commit suicide. If things get too crazy -- STOP!!!
    mattpresti wrote:From the blog at

    Thanks Carol. i would like to offer this piece i wrote. Much love to you all and see you on the Northern side of the Milky way. Across the great ecliptic. AHO...matt

    2012 - The Conscious Choice
    by matt presti

    Here we are fast approaching the most mysterious point of existence perhaps our humanity has ever known. No matter what happens, no matter what has been predicted, and no matter what we all feel personally about this period of time, we must ever remember, that the “old way” of life (war, greed, killing, taking, voluntary slavery) must come to an end if we are to “make” anything of a new world for ourselves. New thought must preSEED new form.

    More than anything, this time is a chance; a chance for real change upon this planet, within this human race. No changes of human behavior have ever come without agitation. The desire must be kindled as it has been over the last 50 years or better. The desire must initiate action as it has over the last 50 years and more. We have seen the rise of human consciousness with intent to “make” changes a part of our daily affairs. Our dealings with other men must have balance in them. Our interchanges with each other must be equal in the knowing that we promote the balance of Universal Brotherhood and Sisterhood upon Spaceship Earth and stop creating “violence” through beliefs.

    The Mayan calendar, the warnings of prophets and visions of tribal elders from antiquity foresaw great upheaval in man's world at this time. The breaking of control systems before our eyes, and the ever mantric threat of new forms of human behavioral control by “the powers that were” through more and more disgusting displays of imbalance that only become more odious and hideous with every law passed beckons for our participation in throwing off the chains of our voluntary slavery and at last standing together as one race of Humanity; rising up and declaring with one single voice “WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS BARBARIC SYSTEM!”

    We have jointly re-declared our right to sovereignty over ourselves and recognize no other authorities as valid entities in our collective eyes. The Creator gives man this inalienable right to declare his intent through the mutual desire to “LIVE FREE” Universally. Those who do not head our call be warned. You stand in the way of the intent and desire of the Creator, and of His Creation whom fully intend to manifest our Creator with purpose in this world. Millions of years of progression toward this purpose cannot be stopped by anyone. It is suicidal folly to attempt to stop this natural progression. You will only hurt yourself if you resist mankind's destiny. Nothing can stop our right and desire to LIVE FREE! IF YOU REFUSE TO CHANGE THEN GET OUT OF OUR WAY!

    In these last days of the 5th sun, no matter what happens, no matter whose predictions come to pass or do not, no matter what we believe or do, one thing is clear from here on out. WE CONSCIOUSLY CREATE OUR WORLD TOGETHER WITH INTENT. ALL MEN ARE EXTENSIONS OF THE ONE CREATOR AND THEREFOR ARE EXTENSIONS OF EACH OTHER. WHAT YOU DO TO ANOTHER YOU DO TO YOURSELF. WE HAVE THE POWER TO CREATE THE WORLD WE DESIRE. WE MUST STAND FOR WHAT WE MAKE—FOR WE MAKE IT IN OUR OWN IMAGE. MAKE IT GOOD.

    Babylon - The SOL Project

    Carol wrote: The International Telecommunications Union (ITU), an imprint of the UN, is holding its World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) from December 3-14, 2012. The stated purpose of the WCIT is to update the UN’s “global treaty” on telecommunications to deal more directly and comprehensively with the internet. Knowing who controls the UN, it is not hard to see that a primary aim of the updated “treaty” will be to give credence to the regulation and monitoring of online activity in ways that are desirable to the (authoritarian) majority of member states.

    Since we last updated our global telecommunications regulations, the internet, operating in a relatively unregulated environment, has grown by leaps and bounds, as human productive endeavors when left unregulated have an annoying tendency to do. Therefore, in order to keep this wildly successful communications network from getting any farther ahead of our regulatory apparatus, it is time to develop a strong, binding framework to limit internet growth, use, and activity in ways deemed necessary by those UN member states, such as China, Russia, and Iran, that are opposed on principle to unrestricted international communication, on the grounds that it tends to foster an informed and rebellious population.

    In sum, authoritarian regimes with a vested interest in limiting public access to the outside world, or monitoring and censoring communications for “sensitive” content, are beginning to question whether the ITU is a sufficient guarantor of their control over their inmates with regard to global communication. If we do not act now to “demonstrate our capacity to respond adequately,” our “pre-eminent role in global telecommunications” — i.e., our role as facilitator of the statist status quo — will be challenged. In other words, if Vladimir thinks we are not serving his interests anymore, he will get angry, and no one wants to see Vladimir angry.

    It’s all about control. Control entails everything, money, power, everything. It still gets me that something like money, a piece of paper, can turn people into hellish murdering creatures. It is said that Satan fell to Earth and it is here where he reigns. I can’t argue with that assumption because Earth is a hellish place to be. Mankind, the epitome of gods creations, are killing, raping, starving each other to deathover money and toys and sex and whatever. Our society, our civilization is no more far advanced than Rome. ~Ophelia
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    enemyofNWO wrote:" Brzezinski: “Populist Resistance” is Derailing the New World Order "

    Paul Joseph Watson
    November 26, 2012

    During a recent speech in Poland, former US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski warned fellow elitists that a worldwide “resistance” movement to “external control” driven by “populist activism” is threatening to derail the move towards a new world order. Calling the notion that the 21st century is the American century a “shared delusion,” Brzezinski stated that American domination was no longer possible because of an accelerating social change driven by “instant mass communications such as radio, television and the Internet,” which have been cumulatively stimulating “a universal awakening of mass political consciousness.” The former US National Security Advisor added that this “rise in worldwide populist activism is proving inimical to external domination of the kind that prevailed in the age of colonialism and imperialism.” END SNIP

    Even here at The Mist we are making a difference to derail the Current version of the NWO from achieving success . So I don't think that the programs of the current creeps in charge like agenda 21 and the Chip are going to happen. The EU is printing money by the billions and every day 200 Italian business are closing down . Very soon Italy will be uncontrollable because everything is falling apart , Heath system , schools , government of regions , central etc. ect.
    According to Bill Cooper -- Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski were Jason Scholar study-group directors in the 1950's -- when a lot of elites were learning about the 'Alien Presence'. I wonder if the 'External Domination' Zbigniew refers to is 'Alien Presence Domination'?? I continue to speculate about the possibility that the Human Race has Reptilian Roots -- and that we have been managed by the Reptilian Aspect of Us for thousands of years -- for better or worse. I'm frankly extremely apprehensive regarding our future -- regardless of who rules -- and regardless of how they do it. I'm frankly sensing an impending meltdown in this solar system -- which might get extremely nasty. I've been told online that 'You Can't Rule Yourselves', 'This is NOT Your Planet', and that 'The Most Intelligent Life on Earth is NOT Human'. What if these three seemingly 'alien' comments are TRUE??? I'm frankly attempting to think from BOTH a Reptilian and a Human perspective -- even though I don't really know if Reptilians exist. What might it be like to attend Solar System Governance Board Meetings with Reptilians, Greys, Interdimensional-Spirits, and Humans present??? If I continue with this type of modeling -- the possibility exists that I might not retain what little sanity I have left -- and I am being very serious. I am literally a 'walking warzone'.
    Imagine a Glass-Covered Geodesic Dome with 10,000 seats -- on the Earth-Side of the Moon -- as being the 'Crystal-Capitol' of the United States of the Solar System. What Would Robert Schuller and Richard Hoagland Say??!! I have spoken of the possibility of a King and Queen of the United States of the Solar System. Instead of Da'an and Zo'or running the show -- imagine an Elected Human King and Queen (Daniel Jackson and Samantha Carter??!!) presiding over USSS Sessions -- and discussing various galactic issues privately. Imagine their robed entry to the tune of 'Zadok the Priest' (sung by all 10,000 representatives)!!! Should a mostly silent Theocratic Council ensure the purity and integrity of the United States of the Solar System?? Should a Responsible-Theocracy be combined with Responsible-Freedom?? Freedom is a two-edged sword -- which is why I use the term 'Responsible-Freedom'. Is there 'Religious and Political Freedom' in 'Heaven'?? When God issues a command -- does everyone vote on it, to decide whether they are going to obey God, or not?? Is 'Just Following Orders' a legitimate rationalization and/or defense for Absolute Obedience, if God issues Commands which are contrary to His and/or Her Commandments?? Does the 'Sovereignty of God' and 'God's Prerogative' legitimize all 'Acts of God' -- regardless of how reprehensible they might seem to be?? I have attempted to combine the concepts of a Benevolent-Theocracy with a Representative-Republic -- which probably angers EVERYONE. Does Freedom = Confusion?? What if this solar system has been governed for thousands of years by a Centralized Other-Than-Human Solar System Government which does NOT want a Centralized Human Solar System Government which combines a Benevolent-Theocracy with a Representative-Republic?? Think deeply about the 'Flood of Noah' and the 'Tower of Babel Incident'. Is the Separation of Church and State necessary if you have a Good God, a Good Religion, and a Good Government?? Does Freedom = Rebellion?? Does Theocracy = Tyranny?? I keep wondering if the Federal Government is an extension of the Secret Government? I keep wondering if the Secret Government is the New World Order? I keep wondering if the New World Order is the New Solar System? I keep wondering if the New World Order has ruled the Solar System for Thousands of Years? I keep wondering if the New World Order is the Kingdom of God? I keep wondering if the Kingdom of God is the Universal Church? I keep wondering if all of the above is NOT ruled by Human Beings? Does Satan rule the New World Order?? I keep wondering if One Race's God Is Another Race's Satan?? Does Satan have an office at Goldman Sachs?? Do Politicians, Clergy, Bankers, and CEO's hang-out with Satan? Are bloody-rituals part of the deal? Does a Centralized Solar System Government run everything??

    I am NOT opposed to the RIGHT kind of Centralized Solar System Governance -- but I fear that the one we MIGHT'VE had for thousands of years is NOT nice. But really, we might not live in a nice universe. I simply wish for this solar system to be governed in a reasonable and rational manner -- with a minimum of drama and panic. Solar System Governance should be the most boring activity imaginable -- at least to the casual observer. What if the 'War Against the New World Order' is orchestrated by the New World Order?? Might the 'State Secession Movement' be orchestrated by the New World Order to destroy the legitimate and constitutional United States of America?? Incidently, I like watching Alex Jones documentaries to help me figure out what's really going on in this country, world, and solar system -- but I have to be very careful not to get caught-up in the anger and the tendency toward anarchy and mob-rule. This is VERY tricky territory. If there is any sort of anarchy, social-meltdown, running in the streets, martial law, or uncivil war -- I suspect that it was planned years (or decades) in advance by the PTB (human and otherwise). I've gotten rather jaded and cynical about a lot of things. I keep getting the sinking feeling that the industrial and technological revolution was orchestrated in an irresponsible manner which might've maximized profit and development on some covert level. In some ways, it seems as if this world is being run into the ground -- as if there is no tomorrow for humanity. I keep sensing that there's a schedule in some underground base -- detailing the controlled-demolition of the human race. I so hope that I'm wrong.

    BTW, what was that very tense and official sounding phone call all about, a little over a year ago, when the AED asked me a series of questions, informing me that the conversation was being recorded, and that others were listening?? My 'Sabbath' answer probably needed context and explanation. I suspect a 'Sabbath Doctrine' which predates the Creation of Humanity, and I am NOT rebellious toward the basic Sabbath Principle, but I am very uneasy with the Decalogue -- in the Context of the Pentateuch -- as being the Ethical Pinnacle in Modernity. Once again, consider the '1928 Book of Common Prayer', the 'Desire of Ages', the 'Federalist Papers', and Sacred Classical Music as being starting-points for theological and political conversations (especially in the context of liturgical-churches with gothic-architecture). (auto-play) I am reasonable -- and I am NOT retentive. I Am NOT Anti God -- Just Anti Bad-God. A Good God Should Probably be at the Center of Solar System Governance. Also, is there some sort of a 'Council of Seven'?? If so -- who might they be?? Who might be ChairBeing of the Board?? I once heard what seemed to be Other-Than-Human Beings, while I spoke with the AED on the phone. I told the AED to say 'Hello' to these beings. I had just posted some rather graphic 'alien' images on this thread (which are now 'dead' links). I tended to get called after doing that sort of thing. Remember when Raven reamed me?? The AED and I talked about that incident the day after it occurred!! The AED said that sort of thing wouldn't happen again. The AED was 'angry and jealous' and they 'didn't have to sleep'. Think about it. The AED once told me that I'd never 'figure it out'. Another time, the AED told me that 'I had done it with You Tube'. What if I invented the internet -- and Al Gore claimed credit?? Just Kidding. Siriusly, Who Invented the Fancy Technology?? Was It Stolen?? I suspect that it was. Will Justice Prevail?? I Doubt It. The AED told me they had 'Always Remained One Step Ahead of Humanity'. They said that I was one of two humans they considered to be friends -- and that they considered the rest of humanity to be minions. The AED liked the Latin Mass -- but hated Christians and the Roman Catholic Church!! They thought that people (including women and children) deserved to die in the Roman Colosseum. The AED was dark and sinister -- in a charming and likeable manner. We discussed galactic affairs several times at local coffee-shops!! It was sort of like Bartleby and Loki at the airport in 'Dogma'. Or was it more like 'Pinky and the Brain', 'Zo'or and Da'an', 'Liam and Da'an', or 'Classified and Classified'??? I'm only relating this because so much time has passed since we spoke -- and because the audience is so limited here on this forum. I do NOT wish to make a big deal about this. I just wanted some select portions of our encounter to be 'on the record' in a very informal manner. I am extremely apprehensive and troubled regarding this matter. As I typed the last couple of sentences -- one of those wisps of white-light passed between the monitor and myself. It was probably my monitor or watcher telling me to 'shut-up'. I've said WAY too much in this paragraph. What Would KRLLL Say??

    I think we are in DEEP trouble regarding advanced technology combined with a malevolent and covert technocracy-theocracy. When this REALLY kicks in -- most people will have NO idea what's happening -- and those who do will probably be reeducated, liquidated, etc. Watch the 'Absolute Power' episode of 'Stargate SG-1' for a clue as to how wrong things can go when advanced technology is in the worst of hands. The Goa'uld-Enhanced Daniel Jackson reminded me of the Ancient Egyptian Deity. If I had been vibrating faster -- and if I had been more respectable -- I might've ended up going along for the ride like Jack O'Neill. Just a thought. I continue to think that we are at an extremely dangerous crossroads -- and I have become a full-time delusional and nervous worrier. It's a good thing that I don't smoke, drink, or take drugs. Damn-it! I forgot to take my medicine again. Dr. Mataros is going to be very angry with me -- and you NEVER want to anger Dr. Mataros. What Would Jack Kavorkian Say? BTW -- has anyone noticed the living reptilian eyes within the black mask during the opening credits of 'Stargate SG-1'?!

    I wonder if they could apply the pig's sexual gifts (30 minute long orgasms) to humans via some sort of transplantation?! "Oink!! Oink!! Oink!! Oink!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!" "How's THAT for 'Trans-Humanism'?!" 'That Was Fun!! Let's Do It Again!!' '30 minutes of pleasure -- 9 months of pain -- a quick trip to the doctor -- and out came Jane!!' I know they use pig-skin for pig to human skin-grafts -- and pig heart-valves for human heart-valve replacement surgery. I once attended a lecture where Dr. Leonard Bailey showed pictures of the 'Baby Fae' Baboon to Human heart-transplant surgery. Cyclosporin could not overcome ABO barrier problems -- unfortunately. The joke in the Bay Area is 'I Left My Heart in Palo Alto'!! (at Stanford) I heard about some guy who got his you know what rebuilt using part of one of his ribs in a surgical reconstructive procedure called an 'addadicktome'. When he healed, they let him out of Bellevue Hospital in NYC for a six-hour trial. He came back three days later, exclaiming 'Doc!! You gotta get one of these!!!' (Source is 'The Making of a Surgeon' by William Nolan) When an electrode stimulating the sexual-center of a rat's brain was implanted -- and actuated via a lever in the cage -- the rat eventually lay down on the lever!!! BTW -- Pavlov Was a Dog!! Once, when 'Rufus' ('Dogma') asked me how I was doing -- I answered 'For Me -- Life is Just One Big Orgasm!!!' Another time, he asked me the same question, and I answered 'I'm Stuck on F!@#$d!!' 'Rufus' had the best Sci-Fi Comics!! He told me about the 'Excrementals' in 'Dogma' before I had even heard of 'Dogma'!! He once mentioned something about 'Opening Up My Third-Eye'. He also told me about an Egyptian movie where an Alpha Raven or Crow arrogantly exclaimed 'KAA!!' So every time I saw 'Rufus' I'd look at him out of the corner of my eye and then defiantly exclaim 'KAA!!' Remember that Alanis was quiet, crazy, and funny -- and was a female hidden in a male body. Interesting.

    Consider the concept of a Highly Ethical and Highly Competent Nazi-Mason-Jesuit Agent-Attorney-Queen -- or is this a contradiction in terms??!! Do we need a 'Titanium-Lady' at the helm of this solar system -- even with a United States of the Solar System?? What if Sherry Shriner is the Queen of Nibiru?? Might that be why Sherry knows so much?? What if Sherry is Rich?? What if at least one Archangelic Queen of Heaven is a lot like this pretty lady (with a deeply spiritual soul)?? What if she is somehow related to Sherry Shriner?? I could say a lot more about this matter -- but I have a sore back.Heh heh I fear that we have a governance and technological nightmare on our hands which might be nearly impossible to resolve. Perhaps 'High-Views' of Ethics and the Law of God are optimal places to search for theological and political truth. It seems as if the Search for Truth involves endless conflict. The Truth is SO overrated. I have never been more pessimistic about the future than I am presently. I'm trying very hard to stop posting -- in part because my thoughts are becoming darker by the minute -- and I do not wish to upset anyone. I continue to fear the extermination of the human-race -- but perhaps we have something to look forward to, once we shed these wretched bodies of ours, and go to a 'better-place'. Here is a REALLY strange question!! Do I have a biological child who I don't know about?? I have NEVER been promiscuous -- but for certain undisclosed reasons -- I wonder if this might be the case. An ethnic female of around ten years of age keeps entering my consciousness!! Have I met this hypothetical child?? What is the meaning of this?? I am sane, aren't I?? Please say 'Yes'!!

    I'm sorry we couldn't work together. Too much BS has gone under the bridge. I'm tired of the BS. Too many bridges have been burned. It might've been nice to properly discuss the issues raised within this thread -- but too many Key-Beings remained silent. Why?? I desired only the best for all concerned. I keep attempting to look within the veil -- but I don't necessarily like what I see. Nothing would surprise me at this point. In the coming years, I intend to silently research the solar system (with UFO's, Mag-Lev Trains, Underground-Bases, Secret-Archives, Cray-Supercomputers, Chip-Implantation, Mind-Control Experimentation, and an Unlimited-Access Badge). Just Kidding. I still have no particular agenda or vendetta. I simply wish to be as perceptive and fair as possible. I've done a lot of speculating and role-playing -- so don't take this thread too seriously -- including my attitudes, language, images, views, and whining. A lot of this thread was an act -- to make a point. The more I research -- the less I seem to know, with any significant degree of certainty. I am NOT an insider (not in this incarnation anyway) -- but I think it might be kinda fun. Today, I'm imagining visiting the Bases Within Mercury!! I'll just keep silently pretending that I'm a Token Ethical Insider (TEI). No Harm -- No Foul. I've concluded that I basically have to talk to myself, because I am so far removed from virtually anyone's wavelength. I know there are those who I might resonate with, but I don't think they are at liberty to speak freely with me. I've used this site to stimulate my thinking. I make posts on various threads, and then transfer these posts to my 'home' thread. But I am seriously attempting to become much more private, and much more academic. I can no longer view YouTube videos, for whatever reason, so I'm relying more upon books and DVD's. I continue to think that someone might obtain a PhD in 'Project Avalon' and the 'Mists of Avalon'!! Seriously, one might read every thread -- read all books mentioned -- view all linked videos -- and analyze all of the posters (including meeting with some of them). I'm not kidding when I say that I feel highly attacked and drained -- on a supernatural level. This thing has turned into a 24/7 internal war -- with nothing to show for it -- and an increasing lack of attention to the daily details of 'normal living'. I can't quite 'turn the corner' and become a full-fledged science-fiction writer. I seem to have become stuck with making posts to myself on this site. I'm trying to 'go away' -- not because I'm angry -- but because I seem to be stuck in a rut. I need to reasearch and reflect -- without typing or moving my lips. I'm trying to develop a silent poker-face -- combined with non-stop internal-warfare of a most troubling and startling nature. Some might call this insanity. Siriusly, how many people agonize over the implications and ramifications of having a Titanium-Lady Queen-of-Heaven at the head of a Theocratic Council-of-Seven -- facilitating a United States of the Solar System -- which integrates a Benevolent-Theocracy with a Representative-Republic -- in the context of a Reptilian-Universe which hates Humanity??!! It's enough to drive a man to drink!!

    I will be thinking about that which I have introduced to you -- but I will be moving in a very different direction (as I recently mentioned). This passive quest is about to go completely BLACK -- and I will do my very best to NOT make further posts. On the other hand -- I have been thinking about doing an interview-show from Nibiru called 'The Regressive Perspective'!! Just Kidding. There have been some very suspicious individuals around my home lately -- and if anything bad happens to me -- I didn't do it to myself. You have my word. (Can you guys get me off the Red-List?? Please -- I beg of you. Kyrie Eleison.) Is the survival of one group of individuals and/or races dependant upon the destruction of another group of individuals and/or races?? I keep getting the feeling that we are locked in a Most Dangerous Game Where No Prisoners Are Taken. If this is the case -- why does it have to be this way?? Are there Ancient Covenants which are Absolutely Binding in Modernity?? Be VERY careful who you label as 'Good-Guys' and 'Bad-Guys'. This includes God, Satan, Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Jesus, et al. The Judgment-Process might be VERY complex and confusing. Many are 'Good' because they lack the motive and opportunity to be 'Bad'. Ever heard of 'Righteousness by Senility'?? I presently favor Galactic-Incarceration over Galactic-Extermination. I do NOT favor torture, enslavement, and murder. I suspect that I am reincarnationally BOTH Good and Bad. I suspect that I have always meant well -- but we all know about 'good-intentions' don't we?? I keep thinking I was some sort of a Reincarnational-Insider who became a Sanctimonious Pain in Uranus -- and got demoted Big-Time. Was the Mission too important to be jeapordized by my hyper-ethical whining?? Was I bad for business?? Would an effective Solar System Administrator need to be Good and Bad -- Simultaneously?? Would they need to be Wise as a Draconian-Reptilian and Harmless as a Christ-Like Human?? Think About It.

    I tend to think that a World Order has always existed which has probably included the whole Solar System -- but now people are finding out about it -- and the technology somehow seems to be out of control (or under the control of the wrong humans and other than humans). Who will run the Solar System -- and how will they do it?? There have been nasty power struggles throughout history -- but the stakes seem much higher now than they have ever been. I've made myself sick by thinking about this. I keep thinking that our future is going to be quite nasty -- regardless of who runs things -- and regardless of how they manage the insanity. I remain VERY conflicted by the interrelationship between Love, Freedom, Responsibility, Law, and Order. Anarchy and Mob-Rule are Bad -- But So is Cracking-Down and Cracking the Whip. I seem to be morphing into some sort of a wanna-be megalomaniac-anonymous -- and I don't like this one little bit. I want Heaven on Earth -- but it seems as if this will not be happening anytime soon. I get the feeling that many of those who desire Heaven on Earth see extermination and theocracy as justifiable means to a glorious end. I desire Heaven without having to kill the rebels, and without having to enforce doctrinal-purity with harsh and violent means. The means determine the ends. I said I was going to stop posting -- and I'm trying a lot harder this time. The conversations I desired never materialized -- and I sense unimaginable problems, which I really do not wish to openly speculate about. I get the sinking feeling that a happy-ending is NOT an option. I'm sorry things had to end this way. 'It Might've Been'. I might post on the internet at a much later date -- but I really wish to end this particular thread -- and let the space-dust settle. A week ago, I told someone I was DONE posting. I didn't lie -- yet I have made several posts this week. Hopefully this one will be my last -- at least for the remainder of 2012. I got that cleverly delivered message. Thank-you. How did you do that??!! I suspected as much -- but even with the message -- I still don't necessarily believe it. True or False? In a sense, it really doesn't make much difference. Truth is Truth -- regardless of whether I have anything to do with it -- or not. I continue to desire a Strategically-Located Room with a Cray (linked to a high-end Artificial-Organ!) -- and that Unlimited-Access Badge!! I'm easy. Just Kidding! I don't know what I want -- and more importantly -- I don't know what I deserve -- but I don't think I'll have to wait long to find out. This could be Heaven -- or this could be Hell. Actually, I DO know what I want!! 1. 2. 3. Just kidding!! I really want to End ALL War and Violence -- and I'm NOT kidding.

    I like the idea of underground living -- with or without aliens and the end of the world. I sort of like the Stargate SG-1 underground base. I think it might be cool to be part of a think-tank in such a setting. I like the idea of travelling throughout the solar system -- without saying or doing much of anything -- other than making a daily report on the InterPlaNet. I'm not really into fighting the Goa'uld with machine-guns and laser-weapons. Can't we just get along??? What Would Sherry Shriner Say?? Perhaps I should become a Mason -- and be a corrupt banker -- so I can afford an Underground Base with a Hobbit House Entrance. But it might be a bit late for that. Regardless of what happens (or doesn't happen), it might be wise to study disaster-books, disaster-movies, sci-fi books, sci-fi series and movies -- in a calm and non-paranoid manner. Imagine obtaining a PhD in 'Project Avalon and the Mists of Avalon'!!! Imagine applying for a job in an Underground Base after obtaining said PhD!! Should I try to make enough money to buy an old decommissioned missile-silo, an old Cray, an old Tracker-Action Pipe-Organ, an Esoteric-Library, a Solar-Enhanced Prius, a Sexy Housekeeper-Assistant, and enough food to last a couple of decades -- just for the coolness of it -- without regard to alien-invasions and the end-of-the-world??!! Just think of the possibilities!! Orthodoxymoron or Wave of the Future??

    Check out the interviews on this link (especially the Major General SC interviews). I listened to two of the 'SC' interviews -- which scared me. I'm REALLY scared. Then, last week, someone with a tattoo in Hebrew (saying something like "He Who is God") told me that "I had done good -- for a loser". Then, the school-shooting took place. Then, a 'person of interest' didn't 'show-up' this week (6 days before 12-21-12) -- and I see them every week. Plus, I'm feeling more and more emotional and spiritual pressure. My house continues to be a mess -- even though I'm a 'clean-freak' at heart. I've just sort of let a lot of things go -- and I've become very distressed and miserable. I am extremely apprehensive regarding the next few weeks. I'm fearing the worst -- even if there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I could say more -- but I can't take much more. Someone told me there would be an attempted theocracy -- followed by an extermination. Perhaps some of us know too much for our own good. I feel as if I have a tiger by the tail -- and I'm afraid to let go. Once certain doors are opened -- there seems to be no turning back -- which is one reason why I have no mission to 'wake people up' -- or to 'shut people up'. I just bought a book on 'Space Law' (with a Sandia National Laboratories stamp!), a book about 'Cleopatra and Christ', a book on 'Break-away Civilizations', and a book about 'Possible Life in the Oceans of Europa'. I'm thinking of moving to a mountain cabin (with a 'Russian Fireplace') -- and doing without a telephone or the internet -- and just chopping wood, gardening, reading books, listening to music, and looking through a telescope (a 16 inch Dobsonian perhaps). In a future incarnation I think I might like to be some sort of a solar system observer or watchdog -- traveling around the solar system, and attending various meetings, sessions, lectures, etc, etc, etc -- just to make sure that nothing goes seriously wrong. Unfortunately, I think that sort of thing won't be happening in this particular incarnation. I'm still hoping that there still is hope for the human race -- and that the universe doesn't pull the plug. On the other hand, if I REALLY knew what the true situation of humanity is, I might feel differently. I truly see through a glass, darkly. Who knows what the full story of our origins are?? There must be extensive hidden records, describing our history quite precisely -- but I keep getting the sinking feeling that we probably would NOT like the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth concerning our origins and history. I watched Lloyd Pye videos a couple of years ago -- and I was quite impressed -- and perhaps I should spend some quality-time evaluating what Pye is presently conceptualizing.

    Please spend a lot of quality-time modeling Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell -- in the context of this solar system. This is a deeper and more complex study than you might think. I think it is significant to imagine what 'Heaven' might be like -- and whether (or not) Heaven on Earth might be a future reality. Is Heaven a Democracy?? Is Heaven a Theocracy?? Is it Good to Have a God?? Can a Benevolent Theocracy and a Representative Republic peacefully coexist?? I have attempted to unite these two concepts within this Sacred Website -- and now I think my work is finished -- for now -- even though I know that I don't have a clue regarding what's REALLY going on. Just keep considering all of the possibilities -- all of the time -- and NEVER give up. On the other hand -- perhaps I should've given up this quest a very long time ago. My life, in general -- and this thread, in particular -- seems to have been a HUGE mistake, and a monumental waste of time. A life is a terrible thing to waste. I just wanted things to make sense -- but they never did. I tried to model a particular perspective within this thread -- but now I wish that I hadn't. There's not much left of me -- but perhaps there never was much to begin with. I will not 'bump' this thread (as I have in the past), and it is presently being ignored -- which doesn't surprise me. I still haven't received an NSA FoIA response (after approximately three months) -- which doesn't surprise me. My attempt to find some sort of middle-ground for all-concerned has seemingly been ignored and/or rejected -- and I KNOW that 'Those in the Know' know about me -- yet refuse to converse with me -- which doesn't surprise me. BTW -- are we dealing with three groups of Ancient Souls?? 1. Non-Physicality Oriented Souls?? 2. Reptilian-Humanoid-Physicality-Oriented Souls?? 3. Mammalian-Humanoid-Physicality-Oriented Souls?? If so -- is this Universe large enough to accomodate such diversity?? I have attempted to be VERY open-minded in this matter -- but there has been very little response -- with the limited-response being mostly negative or off-topic. However, I have learned a helluva lot from Brook, Lionhawk, Carol, Mercuriel, Anchor, Mudra, Susan, Raven, A-1, AED, et al. Thank-you.

    I continue to suspect that there are NO safe places -- and that even the Insiders (both good and bad) are NOT safe. I'll continue to quietly model my strange notions of solar system governance -- and to consider my strange conceptualizations of a very strange and very dangerous universe. I am quite pessimistic about the future -- regardless of what happens (or doesn't happen) on 12-21-12 (or throughout 2013). The threads I've created (in the context of Project Avalon and the Mists of Avalon) should keep me busy as I await 'The End'. I just got a set of encyclopedias to read. So if the 'Veil is Lifted' and we see all manner of strange beings -- or if we discover that we are strange beings -- I'll try to just utter 'well whatta you know!!??' -- and then go back to reading my threads and encyclopedias!! Are we facing the Open Rule of Satan -- after thousands of years of the Covert Rule of Satan??!! I continue to suspect that we are more screwed than we can possibly imagine. On the other hand -- I continue to model idealistic solar system governance modalities. But to whom it may concern -- if you get propped-up as some sort of a Solar System Administrator -- be very wary regarding the very top of the pyramid -- and be very wary regarding the fate of humanity. You might be in for a helluva marriage -- once the honeymoon is over -- and the novelty wears off. I'm just trying to be a Galactic Tom Bodett -- to keep the light on in this solar system -- in what I perceive to be a dark universe. I do NOT wish to think the way I do -- but my internal modeling is quite frightening and compelling. I base most of my thinking on extensive experience and reflection -- but I certainly can't prove any of it -- and I SO hope that I'm wrong. I will continue to quietly model the principles and concepts contained in this thread -- even if it drives me completely insane. I KNOW that 'TOP' people know about this madness (without all of my errors) -- but they're not talking about it -- which doesn't surprise me. Perhaps I should permanently leave this solar system -- or perhaps I should cease to exist -- and be as though I had never been. Perhaps then the universe might bask in divine justice. I am very sorry to have bothered you -- and caused some of you to hate me. This universe does not seem to need me -- or want me. Is there another one somewhere or somewhen?? Can you imagine living within Ida and/or Dactyl for a couple of years??!! Would that be cool -- or would it suck?? I think it might be VERY cool!!! I'm half joking and half Sirius.

    I just rewatched 'Legion' and now my computer is 'possessed'. There really does seem to be a connection. Isn't it interesting that Michael was depicted as being the 'rebel-angel' rather than Lucifer??!! Somewhat relatedly, watch the 'Dark Frontier' episodes (parts 1&2) of 'Star Trek Voyager' (seaon 5). This is one of the most chilling shows I have ever watched. Might that hellish Borg-Ship be representative of an 'intermediate stage' or 'half-way house' wherein Humans from Earth (Demons from Hell?) are assimilated back into a hive-minded Reptilian Universe as Angels in Heaven??!! I have no idea -- but I continue to wonder about such things. As I mentioned, this quest is becoming too dark for me to continue to speculate in public. I'd still like to hang-out with the Jesuits on Mt. Graham -- and perhaps participate in the University of Arizona astronomy program (with an emphasis on Lunar and Planetary Studies). Perhaps such a formal study might be integrated with a deeper academic study of this thread -- at both undergraduate and graduate levels. I'm not sure I could deal with campus life, at this point, so some sort of 'independent-study' might be necessary (which might include Reptilian Theocracies and Space Law). Is anyone (human or otherwise) presently living within Ida and/or Dactyl?? What if there were a Reptilian Theological Seminary within Ida??? Or what about the University of Arizona at Ida (with an Asteroid, Lunar, and Planetary Studies Center)??? What if the Jesuits had one of those big binocular telescopes on Ida?? Just a thought.

    BTW -- what if 'Seven of Nine' is somewhat representative of the 'Queen of Heaven'??!! Don't shoot. I'm just a Completely Ignorant Fool. What if the Borg Queen ruled Seven of Nine ruled the Queen of England??!! No disrespect intended -- but what if the universal chain of command is darker and more complex than we can possibly imagine?? What if the Illuminati are caught between an Angry Reptilian Universe and a Rebellious Human Race??!! Once again, don't we need to consider ALL of the possibilities, including Sherry Shriner prior to arriving at any conclusions regarding the most important topics imaginable??!! Here are some final thoughts for your consideration:

    1. The Love of Money is the Root of All Evil -- but the Bottom-Line is the Bottom-Line.
    2. We Desire Strong Leadership -- but Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
    3. A Literal Solar System Heaven or Hell might be Bad for Business -- but This Present Purgatory seems to be the Optimal Business Model. World Without End. $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!
    4. We Desire Freedom -- but we Shun the Responsibility Upon Which Freedom is Based.

    I was a Paid Completely Ignorant Internet Fool. The Devil Made Me Do It -- and the Greys Paid Me -- Until I Became a Smart@$$. Siriusly, this thread is NOT hate-based. I might be partially-insane -- but NOT in a hateful or dangerous manner. I'd like to ask one last time, for something to be done with this thread, perhaps involving certain key players answering some of the questions I've asked -- in some sort of a science fictional format. I have NO idea what might be appropriate -- or what might work. You wouldn't believe the things I think about, relative to this thread -- but I don't wish to make a big deal about subjects which I know very little about. I need to try to get something published -- but I don't know which way to jump -- so I'll probably just keep my thoughts to myself -- and leave this thread as is. I tend to think that I'm in HUGE Galactic Trouble already. What if, after all of my ranting and speculation about the Queen of Heaven -- I turned out to be the Reincarnation of Isis??!! Nuff Said. Namaste, Godspeed, and Geronimo. (autoplay)

    Orthodoxymoron's Last Stand. "Here I Stand. I Can Do No Other."

    "Get Orthodoxymoron!! He Wants My Job!! This Constitutes High-Treason!!!"

    "No Job is Finished Until the Paperwork is Completed."

    21. (The NSA Won't Say)

    "Thanks for the Votes Suckers!! Wait Till You See What We've Planned for You!!"
    This Thread is NOT for Everyone. Some Might Find it HIGHLY Upsetting
    and Disruptive. It is Intended to Make Sirius Researchers THINK. It is
    a Contrarian-Corrective Process -- Rather Than Being Normative.
    What You Think and Do is Up to YOU.
    It Is Finished.
    The End.

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed May 15, 2013 10:46 pm

    I feel extremely vulnerable, given that I have posted a helluva lot of controversial and irreverent material. I'd still like to write some sort of a book, but I don't know if I dare. I have NO idea how angry various individuals or groups might be. I've really just been trying to understand -- but I don't think I understand -- even at this late date. I'll go ahead and finish transfering and editing the USSS thread -- but I think when I'm finished with that, I'm really finished. I continue to think that Earth-Changes would be a mistake. I'm beginning to think that I have a better understanding of what's going on in this solar system -- but this supposed understanding makes me less eager to get involved in any sort of a Final-Jihad. I'll keep trying to model this thread -- just in case anyone is interested. BTW -- the last couple of Sherry Shriner shows seemed to describe, somewhat, my experience with the one claiming to be an Ancient Egyptian Deity. You can laugh all you want about that -- and I don't know what happened, exactly -- but nothing like that had even happened to me previously -- and it seemed very real -- whatever the hell THAT means. At this point, I simply wish to move on. Something ominous is always right around the corner -- and while we're preparing and bracing for one thing -- we get blindsided by something completely unexpected. The Ancient Egyptian Deity kept talking about the sun in a creepy and ominous manner. I won't be suprised if nothing happens -- or if all hell breaks loose. I'll just keep modeling solar system governance -- in a very low-key manner -- no matter what happens -- or doesn't happen. The Shadow probably doesn't even know what's going to happen...

    Check out the 'Dulce Book' by Branton: I don't know how much of this to believe...but the possibilities are enormous. How do we really know what is going on...or not going on? Again...I could read this sort of thing for hours and hours...even if it were proven to be completely fictitious.

    If there really was a genuine power struggle in our solar system involving human extraterrestrials in league with interdimensional reptilian beings against Earth humans in league with who knows would non-corrupt powers that be communicate this harsh reality with the general public?

    I tended to think that the original "V" series communicated a lot of truth regarding an alien invasion that has been ongoing for thousands of years. I considered the possibility that the huge ufo's were really deep underground military bases.

    I worry that we do not consider everything from all angles all the time. We can reject legitimate and well intentioned warnings...or we can stampede with the rest of the herd...all too easily.

    I'm going to spend the afternoon reviewing this thread...and viewing the original "V" series one more time. I suggest that you do the same. The horror. Consider yourselves warned. The horror.

    Siriusly...I just noticed two things as I started to rewatch the series. 1. The visitors wished to honor the U.N. Charter (not the U.S. Constitution). 2. The visitors were from Sirius. Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

    Sometimes I wonder if the so called reptilians are mostly (or completely) non-physical. Could the visitors simply be human extraterrestrials from Sirius...who are controlled by non-physical reptilian beings? Are there native reptilians who live underground...and basically leave everyone alone? But are they being blamed for all the trouble? Will the human et's from Sirius 'save' us from the reppies who weren't a problem to begin with? Then...would our demonically controlled human 'saviors' proceed to rule us with an iron keep us safe from those damned reptilians...who could strike at any moment? Could the non-physical demonic reptilians be the souls of a physical reptilian race who might have been exterminated in an ancient human vs reptilian war? Could this help to explain their supposed great hatred toward the human race? Do these hypothetical non-physical reptilian souls want to inhabit human bodies...and then completely exterminate the human race...and subsequently live in our homes...and work in our cities? What solid evidence is there that physical reptilian beings exist...and eat our children? Are the disappearing children really being used for another purpose...such as slave labor? Just a thought.

    Could it be that most of the elites thought they were in control of the alien/spirit/demon/whatever situation...until a few years ago, that is? Did the rude awakening occur in the late 1970's? Could shows such as "V" be legitimate attempts to warn the general public regarding what is really going on? I don't know. My gut feeling is that the Deep Underground Military Bases...the Secret Space Program...and the Secret Government are no longer in native human hands (if they ever were).

    I have speculated elsewhere that two rival theocratic human extraterrestrial factions (Pleiades and Aldebaran) have been engaged in a civil war for a very long time...and that both of them have utilized demonic (reptilian?) forces to fight with each other...and that this God-Contest has extended to Earth. In fact this could help to explain how we got here in the first place. I have further speculated that another non-theocratic human extraterrestrial faction (who does not deal with the devil)...has been seeking a Solar System Exorcism and native human rule of the Solar System via Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom in the context of a non-corrupt United Nations.

    All of the above is mostly based upon thin-air...but heck...if the FED can base the world economy on thin-air...anything's possible. I have tried to be internally consistent...and take a wide variety of sources into account...but a lot of the speculation is based upon reflection and intuition. I'm basically neurotic and insecure...and this drives me to look for answers...which I never seem to find. Hope springs eternal.

    I just presently think that the reptilian phenomenon is mostly non-physical. But what do I know? Gotta go. The attendants are telling me that I have to put my straightjacket back on.

    Here is a hairsplitting point: Does the ability of an entity to exert force and inflict injury really prove that they have a truly physical body? Do these entities crave the human body?

    I'm going to back-off of this subject for awhile...or at least I'm going to try. Too much of a bad thing or a good a bad thing. I really don't know what I'm talking about regarding this subject. I'm just trying to learn. I'm now turning my attention to world news...and I'm presently watching BBC World News. Even the bad news is refreshing compared to the reptilian and alien invasion stuff.

    Thank-you Phtha. The linked review was informative. Whoever wrote it was quite thorough. I can't imagine anyone going to that much trouble to write a review like that! I'm feeling somewhat burned-out regarding all of this. I'm seeing two theocratic human/reptilian factions (Pleiadian and Aldebaran) battling for control of the New World Order...with a third non-theocratic human faction (Andromedan) opposing the other two factions. I'm further seeing all of the above as being both native and extraterrestrial.

    I think that both 'V' series (1983 and 2009) are attempts at disclosure. They obviously have purely fictional aspects...but I think there is a core of truth. I think that at this point...we have a short time-frame to sort through a mass of formerly classified information...and to then proceed to clean house in an orderly and thorough manner. The failure to do so may be most catastrophic to humanity. The following is my broken-record partial solution to the problems which seem to be facing the Solar System and Humanity: Please take a look at this thread. I could be very wrong regarding the proposed solutions...but the subject of Solar System Governance is very important and urgent.

    If human beings were brought to Earth (rather than evolving here or being created here)...was anyone here when they (we) arrived? Could reptilian beings have been here already? Actual physical reptilians? Could human beings have possibly fought with them...and destroyed them...along with the dinosaurs? Are we now battling with the souls of these slain reptilian beings? Is there a remnant of reptilian survivors living deep within Earth? Could this be one reason why reptilians supposedly think Earth belongs to them...and why they supposedly hate humans? Do these disembodied reptilians want human bodies...and 'their' Earth? Is that why we hear of walk-ins, soul-scalping, soul-transference, extermination, etc? If this were the case...what would be the solution...for both races? Just thought I'd ask. I want the truth...but what if the truth is too hard?

    Question: where do the V's live? Answer: In a V-Hive.

    Have real V's arrived? Check out this thread:

    What do you think about 'V'? I really liked it. I've also been rewatching the Stargate SG1 series. I was thinking that it would be really cool if both concepts were combined into one series. What would be even more if the complete and honest truth regarding universal history and the 'alien presence' were shown in a very high-budget 20 episode series. That might be the best way to handle disclosure. On the other hand...we're probably half-way through disclosure already...and we're still waiting!

    Phtha commented, "I've recently been watching the original series (there's an active torrent at mininova with all 19 episodes). I don't know how factual the information is, but here are some facts I thought kind of ironic and funny.
    The hybrid earth born child was named E-lizi-beth or a-lizard-birth, and two of the main commanders from the visitors, the ebil man eating reptoids, were named Charles and Diana, who were also to get married in the series. The new series is also up at mininova for those that don't have a tv. I haven't watched it yet, but a review came up at pp that might interest some of you: "

    Were they trying to tell us something about the Royal Family?! Calling David Icke!! In the context of 'V'...please consider this thread: It seems to me to be a simple yet effective escape method from some very deep quicksand. So far...there has been very little interest. I just wish to discuss the basic issues associated with Solar System Governance (SSG). Just trying to make common sense statements...and proposing reasonable solutions...doesn't seem to attract very many people. Why is this? Why does it seem to take crisis, pain, greed, fear, motivate people? Why doesn't common sense and reason...stated calmly...seem to work?

    Could "V" be related to the subject of "Gizeh (or Giza) Intelligence"? Take a look at this thread: I'm just trying to generate some discussion. I don't have the answers...just a lot of questions. But the subjects are in need of further study and refinement.

    Here is another thread which could be related to "V": It is somewhat inflammatory and controversial...but the discussion has been minimal. This puzzles me. I mean no harm. Where have I heard that before?! It has to do with who may be running the show here on Earth. It is mostly are most of my posts. I'm just trying to solve some of the world's problems (and my problems) by asking a lot of questions. Unfortunately...many more problems introduce themselves...uninvited.

    It won't be easy...but I think we're going to make it. Hang on!

    I feel as though we are under some sort of a spell. I feel like I'm fighting an invisible battle continually. It takes extreme effort just to make a little bit of progress. When this crisis is over...I think we will be absolutely amazed at how simple the true solutions really were.

    The connection between the V's and religion/devotion is intriguing. Reading between the story-lines might be productive and illuminating. Never underestimate Hollywood...for good or for evil.

    I think everyone will make it...but what concerns me is how much pain we may have to experience...due to corrupt and evil beings (human and otherwise). We could be facing a very rough and rocky road in the next few years. I'm hoping for the best...but preparing for the worst. The history of this world is not very confidence inspiring. It's been a tough go for most people throughout history.

    Are we on the verge of a real live 'V'?

    Could it be that Satan and Demons are really Interdimensional Draconian Reptilians who hate Humans? Could it be that God, Lucifer, and Jesus are Pleiadian Humans...and that even Lucifer is a good-guy or good-gal? They could all possibly be good. Could it be that they are all at odds with the Dracs...and that they simply have different philosophies regarding how to deal with them? Do they lead the three or four factions which I suspect are headquartered in underground and on the Moon? I believe in the literal existence of all of the above. With this in mind...consider the following link regarding God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc: Do the Dracs control the Vatican...against the will of the Curia and the Pope? Is the term 'Luciferian' really a cover for 'Draconian'? I keep thinking that the Dracs need to be kicked out of our Solar System. I keep thinking that no one should bow down and worship anyone...including worshipping God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, et al. We should simply reverence the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Christlike Holy Spirit. We should see Christ in All Persons. this correct? I continue to suspect that you would be ok if the Dracs were retired...and if our Solar System was based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. I still wish to hear you improvise on the Cavaille-Coll pipe-organ at Saint Sulpice...after this mess is resolved. Lucifer...can you use your Galactic Rolodex to arrange a Solar System Exorcism...and to arrange replacing the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and have this apply to the entire Solar System? I tend to think that you can. Perhaps you have already called in the strike. If so...thank-you in advance. See you at Saint Sulpice. Namaste Lucifer.

    I think we'll be here for a long, long time...but the question is whether we will live under an Extraterrestrial Human/Reptilian Theocracy...or under Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom.

    I just finished watching the fourth and final 'V' episode of 2009. 'V' End! But there is no closure. I don't want to wait until the spring of 2010 to find out what's going to happen. we now go live? The final scene shows a huge number of 'V' ships at the edge of our Solar System. Or...are they some other type of space fleet? Is something brewing? Hmmmmmm. After watching this you still want to get your damn vaccine? Don't vaccinate me bro!!

    Can the Pleiades, Aldebaran, Andromeda, and Draco be one big happy family under Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom (NCRF)? I don't really know if the four star systems are representative of the major factions at work in this Solar System, or not...but I suspect that NCRF would go a long way toward resolving a lot of problems. I just have the nagging thought that no matter what we do...or how good we try to be...things will still be $crewed-up. I really want to be optimistic about the future...but I'm preparing myself for a very difficult future. Even if we do the right thing...and make the correct major decisions...things will probably continue to be difficult for most of humanity.

    Tone3 dowses, I believe...but I'm not sure I believe.

    Has anyone considered the possibility that Anna is completely human (extraterrestrial human)? Could the reptilians be slaves or mercenaries for the elite extraterrestrial humans? What if Chad and Anna get married? Why didn't the series just keep going...right through the winter? What are the ratings? How has 'V' been received so far?

    I'm thinking that control and allegiance are what the 'V's are really after. Extermination could be done directly...without all of the fanfare, false overtures, and deception.

    I'm going to rewatch 'V' 2009 this weekend. Any more thoughts about the series? I noticed that Sherri Shriner of said that 'V' reflected a lot of what she has been saying for years.

    There is something I like about Anna and her daughter. I also like the technology. How would an ideal and benevolent extraterrestrial race look and act?

    Does Amen Ra = God the Founder = Intelligent Designer? Did Amen Ra create Reptilians as a slave race? ("Let us make man in our image"). Was Amen Ra destroyed by the Reptilians...or by Lucifer during the War in Heaven? Could Amen Ra exist on another dimension? Is Amen Ra present only in the Divinity Within Humanity?

    Does Lucifer = Eve/Hathor/Isis/Mary (brought us to Earth from the Pleiades/Aldebaran/Sirius IN the Moon aka Battlestar Galactica aka Ark of the Covenant)? Did Lucifer create the major religions...including being the major author of the Bible? Is Lucifer the Human Goddess of This World? Is Lucifer alive presently...perfectly possessed...and posting on the internet? Was Lucifer/Eve deceived by the Reptilians who offered technology, protection, and a new Earth (the Promised Land)...which was the equivalent of Eating the Apple? Is Lucifer in charge of the Deep Underground Military Bases / Stargate Temples / Secret Space Program? Or...are the Reptilians in charge?

    Does the War/Expulsion in Heaven (Lyra or the Pleiades?) have Garden of Eden (Pleiades?) and Exodus (Hyksosdus?) parallels?

    Are the major factions in the Solar System associated with 1. Amen Ra? 2. Hathor? 3. Horus? 4. Serpent?

    Does Adam = Earth Humanity?

    Does Winged Serpent = Reptilians / UFO's (Conspired with Lucifer against Amen Ra?). Does the Winged Serpent represent Nibiru and/or the Reptilian God of This World? Do the Reptilians provide technology, protection, and 'Tenant in Possession Status on Earth' for exchange for work, worship, and ? Could this be the Covenant? Did Horus/Jesus obtain a New Covenant?

    This is a very tangled hypothetical web which might be pure unmitigated poppycock...or which might be the biggest part of disclosure.

    I have a feeling that we will be meeting Lucifer/Eve/Hathor/Isis/Mary in the near future...and that she might be a lot like Anna in "V"...except with darker skin and an English accent...with exquisite musical abilities...and an astronomical IQ. Just a feeling...mind you.

    Now I need to take my medicine...before I go to my psychiatrist and exorcist appointments. Too hip. Gotta go.

    1. 2.

    The accent was probably the least significant speculation...which I probably made because of Hollywood. What about the rest of the post? What are the strengths and weaknesses? BTW...I'm not saying that the hypothetical Lucifer/Eve/Hathor/Isis/Mary is evil. I'm suspecting a mixture of good and evil...which probably goes with the territory of being a God or Goddess of any world...not just this one. Once again...I don't think there should be any Gods or Goddesses...regardless of whether they are good or evil. It's the principle of the thing. The first and last commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'.

    We might be very, very surprised at what is within the Earth and Moon. Guess we'll just have to wait and see...or not see.
    kriya wrote:A thousand apologies to you orthodoxymoron. I was just making an observation about accents without giving due thought to your post. I enjoyed V very much.

    The only thing I can comment on is the issue of Lucifer. Having not read this entire thread I apologise if this has been mentioned already. But from what I have read, Lucifer was God's most loved Angel (and By that I mean the one closest to God). Lucifer was in charge of creation, creating in God's name so to speak. However, creation wasn't meant to last forever, and was eventually meant to dissolve back into God. Lucifer was charged with this task and refused to obey as he had become very fond of creation and his own power. This is why temptation plays such a major role in keeping us imprisioned here.

    Hope that helps.


    No apology necessary. I was not aware that Lucifer was in charge of creation. What is the source of this information? I have recently speculated on this. This is fascinating. Could the Reptilians and Greys have been created by someone other than the Founders...such as Lucifer? Could this be continuing in the Deep Underground Military Bases? I really don't think that the visible governments and militaries of the world are in control of these very secret facilities. No inside info...just my usual.

    Regarding the the 1983 version of 'V' the female commander over John and Diana...has an English accent. I love a French accent...but in the context of Masters of the doesn't really work! English accents are probably the most refined and dignified sounding accents on the it was really a compliment. I guess I think in terms of Kings and Queens, Gods and being closely related. This is a 'Royal Model' of authority. There is something good about this...but the corruptibility factor should make this model obsolete. I also think about British explorers and archeologists in Egypt...and the 'British Museum' in Cairo.

    I don't wish to make light of this whole subject. I think this could be very serious business...and a mixture of good and evil, triumph and tragedy. I hope to meet the people behind the curtain someday (probably not in this life). I won't worship them...but I won't berate them either! We're all in this mess sickness and in health...for better or for worse...and death doth not seem to do us part! We can check out...but we can never leave! Welcome to the Hotel Solar System! It's a lovely place! Notice Isis (unveiled!) and Horus.

    The last scene in the fourth episode of 'V' shows a huge number of motherships...after Anna says 'it's only the beginning'. I feel as though I have met at least three or four people who have been instructed by a real life 'Anna'. It's just a feeling...mind you. As usual...I don't know. I sure wish I knew what was really going on in this Solar System. I don't have a problem with physical, mental, spiritual, ethical, and technological development...but I keep getting a sick and sinking feeling that what we may be facing is sugar-coated poison...which externally is love and light...but internally is extermination and enslavement. Sort of like "'come into my web'...the spider said to the fly." I don't want to be paranoid. I just want everything to work out well for everyone...everywhere and everywhen. But judging from history...this ain't gonna happen.

    I have no doubt that something is brewing...and that Earth is the Theater of the Universe...but I question the level of terrestrial and extraterrestrial responsibility. How do both relate to this thread regarding Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom and the Governance of This Solar System? The responses (and lack thereof) make me very apprehensive. To Be Free...Or Not to Be Free? That is the Question.

    "Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility." -- Sigmund Freud

    The Andromedan Perspective Regarding the Future of Humanity is "Responsible Freedom of Self Determination...Becoming Truly Self Confident and Unconditionally be Responsible for Oneself...Without Being Coerced to Accept Some Higher Authority." -- related by Alex Collier

    "We the People of Earth have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves, and for future generations...a True World Order. A world where Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...not the Old World Disorder Demonic Theocracy...governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful...and we will be...we have a real chance at this True World order in which a credible United Nations can use Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom to fulfill the promise and vision of All Races." -- my rewrite of part of a New World Order speech by George H. W. Bush

    "Like it or not, eveything is changing. The result will be the most wonderful experience in the history of man...or the most horrible enslavement that you can imagine. Be active, or abdicate...the future is in your hands." -- William Cooper

    For the "V" 2009...I like Anna and her daughter (so far anyway)...but I don't like the guy who is looking over her shoulder and questioning her all the time. Are these characters representative of the major players in this Solar System? Have they been here for thousands of years? Have we all been here for thousands of years? I'm beginning to think so.
    JudgeMental wrote:Namaste. Those into the V thing and who are familiar with the symbol they use might be interested in google earth co-ordinates...

    Lat 17°59'44.46"S
    Long 70°15'39.50"W

    Some other interesting symbols as well.
    Thank-you JudgeMental. I'm checking out the coordinates...and I'm rewatching "V" (2009) on Why can't we have the good parts of "V" without the bad parts. Could Humanity interact with Reptilians...without either race dominating, enslaving, exterminating...or otherwise misusing and abusing the other? Isn't this Universe big enough for both of us? Hmmmmmm.

    abraxasinas and the Thuban material should probably be neither accepted or rejected...but simply evaluated in an open yet critical manner. The 'real' abraxasinas may be more subtle and obscure than one might imagine. If one had complete reincarnational recall...or moved from young adult body to young adult body via fully conscious soul-transference...century after century...and was able to utilize 100% of human brain capacity...and was perfectly possessed by a Draconian Reptilian Being...and had complete access to the Vatican Library and the Thuban Database (or equivalent)...what might one be like? They would be quite different...wouldn't they? I'm not saying that this describes abraxasinas...but it could. If it doesn't...I think there is a very strong possibility that such an individual exists...historically and presently. My current thinking is that this individual is an Anna-like (in "V") Human/Reptilian hybrid. I could be very wrong...but I think on one occasion...I may have seen this being. I don't wish to be more specific...and there is probably a 1% chance that the person I saw was really the one who I think they might have been. Still...I think that such an individual has existed throughout Human History...and has been the Best Friend and Worst Enemy of the Human Race...a being in conflict with itself. Think of the possibility of Earth Humanity as Prisoners of War on a Prison Planet with Grey Guards and a Human/Reptilian Warden answering to a Draconian Reptilian 'God'. The horror.

    Don't take anything I say too seriously. I really don't know. I just speculate...and ask a lot of questions. I speculate...therefore I am.

    I sometimes wish I were in Europe...because of the art, music, history, and name a few reasons. I'd love to know what they really think about "V" in the Vatican!! Sometimes I think that even the Vatican is kept in the dark by those who really run the show here on Earth.

    I just feel as though the Vatican, the City of London, and Washington D.C. are told what to do...and that the higher one goes...the more orders one takes...and that you basically end up selling your soul to the Devil (or equivalent). When you get to the might not like the view.

    If spooks reasoned with 'problem people'...I wouldn't have a problem with them. But when they are downright dirty, nasty, and violent...I have a huge problem with them. The sneaking around...and ruining people's lives is insanely reprehensible. Arguing with someone online or at a public meeting is fair game...even if the spooks have an unfair advantage. The spooks should engage in Constructive Competition with problem people...rather than making the Mafia look good...and engaging in Destructive Competition. Monitoring people is probably OK (within reason)...but f#$%^& with them is not OK.

    Here is an interesting take on 'V' from abraxasinas's website: At this point...I don't know what to really think about abraxasinas and the Thuban material. It's quite bizzare...really. Be careful with this stuff. Some people have seemingly been sucked into something they weren't prepared to deal with. Remember...'V' continues on March 30. They are of peace...or so they say. But who are 'they'...really?

    I've left all of the above mostly alone -- just to include any clues which might help fellow researchers. Some of my comments are rather dumb and repetitious -- but I'll leave them for the record. Do you think I'm playing-dumb -- or am I really THAT stupid?? I feel VERY embarrassed by a lot of what I've posted. I hoped to get answers -- but this mostly didn't happen. I somehow think that someone will arrive at some helpful destinations if they carefully incorporate this thread into their other research activities -- but the thread certainly is NOT a Stand-Alone or a Thread to End All Threads. It's sort of insane -- yet some aspects might be important. Who knows??? I guess I should've just stuck with the respectable -- and plead ignorance if the megachurch leaders got it wrong. It's always nice to just blame someone, isn't it??? Siriusly, the subject matter is so insane -- and the reality is probably unbelievably insane -- so if I seem stupid and insane, it probably goes with the territory -- especially when I am taking the intuitive approach -- rather than being mentored by gurus and/or aliens. We all have our crosses to bear -- but I truly wish I didn't have to bear this one. I SO wish the standard answers had kept making sense, instead of collapsing like a house of cards...

    firefly wrote:I tend to agree with you Oxy and I too, feel all seems to be predictable. Though I do hope that Earth and its animals survive and perhaps a few nice people to start again. Maybe its part of our evolution and mankind needs to go through this change. Our human history has been absolutely disgraceful, according the Urantia Book, we started out with cannibals and human sacrifices, and I don't think we have progressed much since. Accept now we eat the flesh of animals and sacrifice humans to war.

    Unfortunately for me and all my family, we live on the East coast of Australia and according to Cliff High we will be inundated with water displacement on or about 20 to 21st May. At one stage I thought it was 21st June, so the Remote Viewers stated, I was hoping I had another month. Well if this doesn't take place Cliff High's reputation in my books will be in the trash can. Hard to know what to do really!

    friendship and love
    I'm certainly NOT calling for mass-murder and the end of the world. The Gods of Eden by William Bramley really opened my eyes to a lot of upsetting things. I think we really might be dealing with angry, jealous, and vengeful deities -- as crazy as THAT sounds. I certainly hope this madness can be resolved without massive loss of life. I live very close to salt-water, as well -- so I might be toast. Again, I hope the gods use a much less blunt instrument to fix this screwed-up world. The people are deeply flawed -- but the gods seem to need to evolve, as well. The whole thing stinks IMHO.
    magamud wrote:"Now gird up your loins like a man; I will ask you, and you instruct Me.
    Job 40:7

    O daughter of my people,
    gird yourself with sackcloth,
    and roll about in the ashes in mourning,
    a mourning ceremony as for an only child.
    Make for yourself wailing of bitterness,
    for suddenly the destroyer will come upon us.
    Jeremiah 6:26

    Then the angel said to him, "Put on your clothes and sandals." And Peter did so. "Wrap your cloak around you and follow me," the angel told him.
    Acts 12:8

    Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at the table, and he will come and serve them.
    Luke 12:37

    But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
    Psalm 94: 1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph ? 4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? 5 They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage. 6 They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless. 7 Yet they say , The LORD shall not see , neither shall the God of Jacob regard it. 8 Understand , ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise ? 9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear ? he that formed the eye, shall he not see ? 10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct ? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know? 11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. 12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest , O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law; 13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. 14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. 15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. 16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers ? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? 17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence. 18 When I said , My foot slippeth ; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up . 19 In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul. 20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood. 22 But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge. 23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.
    magamud wrote:You can only enter the kingdom through christ could not be more important to remember. This is the gate. This is the tale of mercy to gods creation, the grace each one of you can have.
    Know this first then the drama of Lucifer will become evident.

    What is Christ? He is the balance between mortal man and everlasting life. He is the harbinger of the cosmos and the teacher of being human. He is blood and bone and the son of the father. These are not paradoxes these are bonded truths given to us as a gift to live life. This is the way things are and always have been. Remember....
    Did the Jesus Christ of the Bible create the Human Race?? Was Jesus Christ always God -- going back billions of years?? Is Michael the Jesus Christ of the Bible?? Was God overthrown in antiquity?? Is God being recruited as a Fall-Guy presently?? What is the relationship between Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer -- and the Father, Son, and Holy-Spirit?? Is Religious-Mystery directly related to Religious-Deception?? Who REALLY wrote the Teachings Attributed to Jesus?? What are the answers to the questions raised in my previous post?? I'm going to say it one more time -- this whole thing seems to stink from Top to Bottom. Something is VERY wrong here. You speak postively of Jesus -- yet some of the images you have posted portray Jesus in a negative light. You also speak of people burning -- seemingly without compassion. What's going on here?? I seem to be a Completely Miserable and Ignorant Fool -- yet I seem to know way too much about some things -- and I seem to be in the middle of some sort of an Unseen Final Jihad. Many seem to be delighted that I seem to be hanging myself -- on the internet and in real-life. What was, and is, the Law of God -- throughout the Universe -- going back billions of years?? Does the Sabbath, and 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' apply equally to EVERYONE throughout the Universe?? Is the Holy Bible completely ethical from cover to cover?? Is the Law of the Lord perfect?? Is the Perfect Law of the Lord found in the Bible?? If so, where?? Should I prepare myself (in the remainder of this life) to be a Star-Warrior and Intergalactic-Banker in my next life?? Is THAT the kind of universe we live in?? I lean strongly toward Love -- but the Universe seems to be leaning strongly on ME. What, exactly, do you all want?? Do you even know what you want?? BTW -- what do you think about the Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen?? I'm finding it to be MOST interesting!!
    magamud wrote:
    Did the Jesus Christ of the Bible create the Human Race??
    God created us. The all father. Christ is his son that octaves and echoes the foundation of where we come from. This is his family and kingdom.

    Was Jesus Christ always God -- going back billions of years??
    Yes because the answer is always the same. This is why we have so many myths of this archetype. The drama is the messiah and god keeping his word.

    Is Michael the Jesus Christ of the Bible??
    No, Michael is an Angel. Angels amongst many other things serve Gods kingdom. The work hand in hand with Christ and humanity.

    What is the relationship between Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer -- and the Father, Son, and Holy-Spirit??
    You know the drama of lucifer and other angels. The angels serve the all father. The all father disseminates his Wisdom of the universe through his Son and us. Do you see the balance with mortality and infinity? Holy spirit is the truth that mediates between the Son and the Father. It can move mountains and part the seas.

    [Is Religious-Mystery directly related to Religious-Deception??
    The kingdom is in front of your nose. The deception is the pharisees not allowing anyone to extrapolate the entrance. They neither do not know how to enter.
    Religious mystery came from empowered souls who can work their charm enough to illicit servitude as a god.

    Who REALLY wrote the Teachings Attributed to Jesus??
    God did. His word is fulfilled in the bible. This does not mean the literate sense. It is there plain as can see, you have to disseminate it.

    What are the answers to the questions raised in my previous post??
    List them and I will answer.

    You also speak of people burning -- seemingly without compassion.
    The harvest of souls is a joyous thing and bitter thing. This is understanding what death really is. Compassion is teaching this truth. Through christ we attain everlasting life. We will stop death. We can heal. We are at the end of the timeline with adam and eve, cain and able. Our species has gone through a harvest. Stand up and pick your fruits of labor.

    What was, and is, the Law of God
    The law of god is his word, his creation. Its poetic justice, its the phoenix, the harbinger! Its amazing. A duly spectacle that will shine in glory. It is as simple as a plain truth. A rule long whispered and long forgotten. It is sublime, subtle and given to babes.

    Does the Sabbath, and 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' apply equally to EVERYONE throughout the Universe??
    Yes but satan despises the masters plan and prolongs the inevitable every time. Hydras one by one falling into the ponzie scheme.

    Is the Law of the Lord perfect?

    Is the Perfect Law of the Lord found in the Bible??
    Yes its there... That is the power of the kingdom. It can shine from any perspective. As what is, comes from that.

    BTW -- what do you think about the Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen??
    I have not read it, but coming from your keen sense of knowing god im sure there will be good insights.
    Thank-you for your thoughtful answers, magamud. I have a bee in my bonnette regarding the theory that we are all involved in the Great Archangelic Controversy Between Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer in the Conflict of the Ages Within This Solar System. As the theory goes:

    I'm trying to think in terms of Three Primary Archangels -- namely Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer -- rather than thinking in terms of God and the Devil. I keep thinking of Michael as being a Renegade Genetic and Social Engineer who is primarily responsible for the "creation" of the Human-Race -- who actually became Human -- and who was consequently overthrown and demoted by the Galactic Powers That Be -- Led by Gabriel. I keep thinking of Gabriel as being an Other-Than-Human Prosecuting-Attorney Against Michael and Humanity. I keep wondering if Gabriel is the Current Queen of Heaven?! I keep thinking of Lucifer as being an Opportunistic, Clever, Sinister, Cruel, Hybrid-Mercenary Warrior-Administrator aka The God of This World -- who might've first fought side by side with Michael -- and then (when the tide turned) -- worked for Gabriel to reign-in Michael and Humanity. I keep wondering if all three meant well -- but went down some very destructive paths. Perhaps Michael went too far -- too fast -- and wouldn't listen to the PTB. Perhaps Gabriel tried to prevent a War in Heaven -- and maintain Law and Order in the Universe -- but later became corrupted by Managing Humanity. Perhaps Lucifer saw opportunities -- and took advantage of them -- and then some. I keep wondering if Lucifer is presently in conflict with BOTH Gabriel and Michael?! What I fear is that we might have a Three-Ring Circus on our hands -- which might get billions of people mercilessly slaughtered. I have no idea who's really right and wrong -- but I'm feeling NO love whatsoever. I feel as if I could cut the harshness and arbitrariness with a knife. I am VERY frustrated by the silence and coldness. I feel as if I am dealing with a Very Harsh Galactic Supreme Court -- which says very little -- yet exacts horrible retribution and utter destruction. Just remember that "God is Love". Hold that thought. I find the following images to be very troubling and moving. (Reptilian, Ra, and Anna images below) Is the first row what we ALL looked like in antiquity?? Is this what ALL of us will look like in the very near future?? Is humanity a fluke of the universe?? Do we really have a right to be here?? Is the universe laughing behind our back?? Just before the airing of the 2009 "V" remake -- an agent-type of guy talked to me briefly about the series (and thanked me for something [I don't know what] in a rather rehearsed and official manner -- and then spoke hatefully and derisively of "The Bitches". I wonder who he was referring to??? I remained neutral -- and asked no questions...

    Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer??!!
    I guess all of the above is a mixture of speculation and questions. What is the truth of the matter?? BTW -- what if someone told you that YOU were Incarnate 2000 Years ago and that YOU brought the Prime Creator's (Big "G") Message to the People -- and that after YOU had been exiled to the far east a Usurper (Jesus Cesarian) was set up to draw others away from YOUR Message and to corrupt it -- and that 300 years later the Council of Nicea was convened by a Roman Emperor (Constantine) to reduce the understandings YOU'D brought to the people from approximately 37 Books down to 5 -- and that Classical Christian Religion was enacted and forced upon the People over the next 1700 Years -- and that the True Teachings of Yeshua are being held in the Vatican Archives so that "They" can remain on Top as Controllers??!! (Do we really need Men and Buildings to reach the Prime Creator?? The Teachings kept secret supposedly say otherwise -- and point to the "Path Within"). How would YOU react to THAT??!!

    Has anyone studied Hebrew Law?? What do you think about the Sanhedrin acting in defense of the accused?? What if they were tasked with enforcing the Ancient and Perfect Law of the Lord?? Would this be a reasonable model for the Supreme Court of the United States of the Solar System?? What if God were the Chief-Justice aka High-Priest??!! What if they met in the equivalent of St. Mary's (San Francisco) or St. Ouen (Rouen)??!! Would the people of the world receive such a development with cheers and open-arms??!! What do YOU think??!! I don't really care if you agree with me, or not, but please be a gentleman (or gentlewoman) and a scholar!! Please read Israel and the Nations by F.F. Bruce!! You might also wish to order Mission to Mars by Buzz Aldrin.

    Does Modern Israel resemble Ancient Israel -- at least in principle and concept?? I'll just be honest. I'm seeing a HUGE amount of dishonestly and inconsistency throughout the WHOLE DAMN WORLD. What if the solar system were based upon an ABSOLUTELY ETHICAL SYSTEM OF LAW administered by a Solar System Sanhedrin aka Supreme Court of the United States of the Solar System??? What if this Supreme Sanhedrin consisted of 71 members (including the Solar System Administrator -- Chief Justice -- High Priest)?? I'm NOT speaking of Hebrew-Jewish favoritism. I AM speaking of a consistent and workable system of law and administration. A 10,000 Representative United States of the Solar System might still be necessary for most decision-making and problem-solving -- but I am speaking of a Rock-Solid Solar System Core -- to ensure that the overall system did NOT fall apart -- and descend into anarchy, confusion, and destruction. Do you see what I mean???

    In the final analysis -- no matter how we set things up -- no matter who rules -- and no matter what -- it won't be good enough -- we won't be happy -- and we'll continue to fight with each other. I've really been half-joking and half-serious when I've spoken of monitoring the madness with a Cray Supercomputer in a 600 Square-Foot Deep-Subsurface Lunar-Office-Apartment. The sad thing is that I doubt that I'd be happy doing this -- and I doubt that anyone else would be happy with me doing this. Being a Completely Out of Power Miserable and Ignorant Fool has its advantages. Perhaps monitoring life, the universe, and everything with a $300 laptop computer, while sitting in my car, using free wi-fi internet isn't so bad after-all. But very seriously -- contemplating being a Judge-Banker-Warrior in my next life might not be such a bad idea -- even though I don't really wish to move in this direction. It just seems as if this might be how the universe works -- whether anyone likes it, or not. What Would King David Say??? What Would Monseigneur Bowe Say???

    It wouldn't surprise me if I tried really hard to do something significant in my previous lives -- and that my work was mostly in vain -- or that my best intentions to do something good were infiltrated and subverted into something bad. I get the feeling that I sort of gave-up in this incarnation -- perhaps for legitimate reasons. I tried, in a half-hearted way, to make things better with some of my internet efforts -- yet look at the reception -- or lack thereof!! It seems as if I would've been better off going the Judge-Banker-Warrior route. I get the sinking feeling that this is what I might fundamentally be -- and that I tried to move in a different direction this time around. If you all didn't like me in this incarnation -- perhaps you will LOVE me if I reincarnate as a Bad@ss Judge-Banker-Warrior!!! Something to look forward to!! Eh??!! Perhaps all of us will reincarnate as hermaphrodites -- and we can all go screw ourselves!! Something to look forward to!! Eh??!! The Sanhedrin (Hebrew: סַנְהֶדְרִין sanhedrîn, Greek: συνέδριον,[1] synedrion, "sitting together," hence "assembly" or "council") was an assembly of twenty to twenty-three men appointed in every city in the biblical Land of Israel. The Mishnah[2] arrives at the number twenty-three based on an exegetical derivation: It must be possible for a "community" to vote for both conviction and exoneration (Numbers 35:24-5). The minimum size of a "community" is 10 men (Numbers 14:27; i.e. the 10 spies). One more is required to achieve a majority (11–10), but a simple majority cannot convict (Exodus 23:2), and so an additional judge is required (12–10). Finally, a court should not have an even number of judges to prevent deadlocks; thus 23. This court dealt with only religious matters. The Great Sanhedrin was made up of a Chief/Prince/Leader called Nasi (at some times this position may have been held by the Kohen Gadol or the High Priest), a vice chief justice (Av Beit Din), and sixty-nine general members.[3] In the Second Temple period, the Great Sanhedrin met in the Hall of Hewn Stones in the Temple in Jerusalem. The court convened every day except festivals and Shabbos. In the late 3rd century, to avoid persecution, its authoritative decisions were issued under the name of Beis HaMidrash.

    The final binding decision of the Sanhedrin was in 358, when the Hebrew Calendar was adopted. The Sanhedrin was dissolved after continued persecution by the Roman Empire. Over the centuries, there have been attempts to revive the institution, such as the Grand Sanhedrin convened by Napoleon Bonaparte and modern attempts in Israel.

    The Sanhedrin is mentioned in the Gospels in relation to the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus and in the Acts of the Apostles in the account of the death of St Stephen.

    Early Sanhedrin

    The Hasmonean court in the Land of Israel, presided over by Alexander Jannaeus, king of Judea until 76 BC, followed by his wife, was called Synhedrion or Sanhedrin.[4] The exact nature of this early Sanhedrin is not clear. It may have been a body of sages and/or priests, or a political, legislative and judicial institution. Only after the destruction of the Second Temple was the Sanhedrin made up only of sages.[4]

    Great and Lesser Sanhedrin

    The Talmud (tractate Sanhedrin) identifies two classes of rabbinical courts called Sanhedrin, a Great Sanhedrin (בית דין הגדול) and a Lesser Sanhedrin (בית דין הקטן). Each city could have its own lesser Sanhedrin of 23 judges, but there could be only one Great Sanhedrin of 71, which among other roles acted as the Supreme Court, taking appeals from cases decided by lesser courts. The numbers of judges were predicated on eliminating the possibility of a tie and the last to cast their vote was the head of the court.

    Function and procedures

    The Sanhedrin as a body claimed powers that lesser Jewish courts did not have. As such, they were the only ones who could try the king, extend the boundaries of the Temple and Jerusalem, and were the ones to whom all questions of law were finally put. Before 191 BC the High Priest acted as the ex officio head of the Sanhedrin, but in 191 BC, when the Sanhedrin lost confidence in the High Priest, the office of Nasi was created. After the time of Hillel the Elder (late 1st century BC and early 1st century AD), the Nasi was almost invariably a descendant of Hillel. The second highest-ranking member of the Sanhedrin was called the Av Beit Din, or "Head of the Court" (literally, Av Beit Din = "father of the house of judgment"), who presided over the Sanhedrin when it sat as a criminal court.[5]

    The Sanhedrin met in a building known as the Hall of Hewn Stones (Lishkat Ha-Gazith), which has been placed by the Talmud and many scholars as built into the north wall of the Temple Mount, half inside the sanctuary and half outside, with doors providing access both to the Temple and to the outside. The name presumably arises to distinguish it from the buildings in the Temple complex used for ritual purposes, which had to be constructed of stones unhewn by any iron implements.

    In some cases, it was only necessary for a 23-member panel (functioning as a Lesser Sanhedrin) to convene. In general, the full panel of 71 judges was only convened on matters of national significance (e.g., a declaration of war) or in the event that the 23-member panel could not reach a conclusive verdict.[6]

    By the end of the Second Temple period, the Sanhedrin reached its pinnacle of importance, legislating all aspects of Jewish religious and political life within the parameters laid down by Biblical and Rabbinic tradition.

    After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70, the Sanhedrin was re-established in Yavneh with reduced authority. The imperial Roman government and legislation recognized it as the Palestinian Patriarchate, the ultimate authority in Jewish religious matters. The seat of the Patriarchate moved to Usha under the presidency of Gamaliel II in 80 CE. In 116 it moved back to Yavneh, and then again back to Usha. It moved in 140 to Shefaram under the presidency of Shimon ben Gamliel II, and to Beit Shearim and Sephoris in 163, under the presidency of Judah I. Finally, it moved to Tiberias in 193, under the presidency of Gamaliel III (193–230) ben Judah haNasi, where it became more of a consistory, but still retained, under the presidency of Judah II (230–270), the power of excommunication.

    During the presidency of Gamaliel IV (270–290), due to Roman persecution, it dropped the name Sanhedrin; and its authoritative decisions were subsequently issued under the name of Beth HaMidrash.[citation needed]

    In 363, emperor Julian ordered the Temple rebuilt.[7] A personal friend of his, Ammianus Marcellinus, wrote this about the effort:

    Julian thought to rebuild at an extravagant expense the proud Temple once at Jerusalem, and committed this task to Alypius of Antioch. Alypius set vigorously to work, and was seconded by the governor of the province; when fearful balls of fire, breaking out near the foundations, continued their attacks, till the workmen, after repeated scorchings, could approach no more: and he gave up the attempt.

    — Ammianus Marcellinus

    The failure to rebuild the Temple has been ascribed to the Galilee earthquake of 363, and to the Jews' ambivalence about the project. Sabotage is a possibility, as is an accidental fire. Divine intervention was the common view among Christian historians of the time.[8] Julian's support of Jews, coming after the hostility of many earlier Emperors, meant that Jews called him Julian the Hellene.[9]

    As a reaction to Julian's pro-Jewish stance, Theodosius I forbade the Sanhedrin to assemble and declared ordination illegal. Capital punishment was prescribed for any Rabbi who received ordination and complete destruction of the town where the ordination occurred.[10]

    However, since the Hebrew calendar was based on witnesses' testimony, that had become far too dangerous to collect, Hillel II recommended change to a mathematically based calendar that was adopted at a clandestine, and maybe final, meeting in 358. This marked the last universal decision made by that body.

    Gamaliel VI (400–425) was the Sanhedrin's last president. With his death in 425, executed by Theodosius II for erecting new synagogues contrary to the imperial decree, the title Nasi, the last remains of the ancient Sanhedrin, became illegal. An imperial decree of 426 diverted the patriarchs' tax (post excessum patriarchorum) into the imperial treasury[11]

    Archaeological findings

    In 2004, excavations in Tiberias conducted by the Israel Antiquities Authority uncovered a structure dating to the 3rd century CE that may have been the seat of the Sanhedrin when it convened in that city. At the time it was called Beit Hava'ad.[12]

    Revival attempts

    See also: Semicha#Attempts to revive classical semicha

    The Sanhedrin is traditionally viewed as the last institution that commanded universal Jewish authority among the Jewish people in the long chain of tradition from Moses until the present day. Since its dissolution in 358 by imperial decree, there have been several attempts to re-establish this body either as a self-governing body, or as a puppet of a sovereign government.

    There are records of what may have been of attempts to reform the Sanhedrin in Arabia,[13] in Jerusalem under the Caliph 'Umar,[14] and in Babylon (Iraq),[15] but none of these attempts were given any attention by Rabbinic authorities and little information is available about them.

    Napoleon Bonaparte's "Grand Sanhedrin"

    Medallion struck in honor of the "Grand Sanhedrin" convened by Emperor Napoleon I of France.
    The "Grand Sanhedrin" was a Jewish high court convened by Napoleon I to give legal sanction to the principles expressed by the Assembly of Notables in answer to the twelve questions submitted to it by the government (see Jew. Encyc. v. 468, s.v. France).

    On October 6, 1806, the Assembly of Notables issued a proclamation to all the Jewish communities of Europe, inviting them to send delegates to the Sanhedrin, to convene on October 20. This proclamation, written in Hebrew, French, German, and Italian, speaks in extravagant terms of the importance of this revived institution and of the greatness of its imperial protector. While the action of Napoleon aroused in many Jews of Germany the hope that, influenced by it, their governments also would grant them the rights of citizenship, others looked upon it as a political contrivance. When in the war against Prussia (1806–7) the emperor invaded Poland and the Jews rendered great services to his army, he remarked, laughing, "The sanhedrin is at least useful to me."[citation needed] David Friedländer and his friends in Berlin described it as a spectacle that Napoleon offered to the Parisians.

    Modern attempts to revive the Sanhedrin

    Since the dissolution of the Sanhedrin in 358,[16] there has been no universally recognized authority within Jewish law. Maimonides (1135–1204) was one of the greatest scholars of the Middle Ages, and is arguably one of the most widely accepted scholars among the Jewish people since the closing of the Talmud in 500. Influenced by the rationalist school of thought and generally showing a preference for a natural (as opposed to miraculous) redemption for the Jewish people, Maimonides proposed a rationalist solution for achieving the goal of re-establishing the highest court in Jewish tradition and reinvesting it with the same authority it had in former years. There have been several attempts to implement Maimonides' recommendations, the latest being in modern times.

    There have been rabbinical attempts to renew Semicha and re-establish a Sanhedrin by Rabbi Jacob Berab in 1538, Rabbi Yisroel Shklover in 1830, Rabbi Aharon Mendel haCohen in 1901, Rabbi Zvi Kovsker in 1940 and Rabbi Yehuda Leib Maimon in 1949.

    In October 2004 (Tishrei 5765), a group of rabbis representing varied Orthodox communities in Israel undertook a ceremony in Tiberias,[17] where the original Sanhedrin was disbanded, which is claimed to re-establish the body according to the proposal of Maimonides and the Jewish legal rulings of Rabbi Yosef Karo. The controversial attempt has been subject to debate within different Jewish communities.

    See also
    Beth din shel Kohanim
    Synedrion, a general term for judiciary organs of Greek and Hellenistic city states and treaty organisations.
    Tombs of the Sanhedrin


    Constructs such as ibid., loc. cit. and idem are discouraged by Wikipedia's style guide for footnotes, as they are easily broken. Please improve this article by replacing them with named references (quick guide), or an abbreviated title. (May 2010)

    1.^ Lexicon Reslts for sunedrion (Strong's 4892)
    2.^ The Mishnah (Sanhedrin 1:6)
    3.^ In general usage, "The Sanhedrin" without qualifier normally refers to the Great Sanhedrin.
    4.^ a b Wanderings: Chaim Potok's History of the Jews, Chaim Potok, Knopf, New York, p. 191.
    5.^ "Sanhedrin". CUNY.
    6.^ Babylonian Talmud: Sanhedrin 2a.
    7.^ Ammianus Marcellinus, Res Gestae, 23.1.2–3.
    8.^ See "Julian and the Jews 361–363 CE" and "Julian the Apostate and the Holy Temple".
    9.^ A Psychoanalytic History of the Jews, Avner Falk
    10.^ A History of the Jewish People, by Hayim Ben-Sasson, Harvard University Press (October 15, 1985), ISBN 978-0-674-39731-6
    11.^ ibid.
    12.^ Researchers say Tiberias basilica may have housed Sanhedrin
    13.^ The Persian conquest of Jerusalem in 614 compared with Islamic conquest of 638
    14.^ ibid.
    15.^ Sefer Yuchsin, cf. Yarchei Kallah, Rabbi Nassan describes "the seventy judges who comprise the Sanhedrin".
    16.^ The dissolution of the Sanhedrin, in terms of its power to give binding universal decisions, is usually dated to 358 when Hillel II's Jewish Calendar was adopted. This marked the last universally accepted decision made by that body.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue May 28, 2013 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 18, 2013 9:12 am

    What is the ultimate ethical and legal system?? What if there were ONLY an elaborate legal system -- and NO other governmental aspects (such as a Senate, House of Representatives, General Assembly, Security Council, etc?? In other words, what if the legal system were the government?? I guess I am a proponent of a United States of the Solar System -- with a Strong Supreme Court at the head of a Strong Legal System. I certainly do NOT have the background and aptitude to work out the details -- and I'd mostly like to just be along for the ride if a U.S.S.S. ever becomes a reality. I would get myself crucified in a heated legal debate. I know my limitations -- and they are rather substantial. We all have our crosses to bear...

    Posts : 1755
    Join date : 2010-04-11

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  JesterTerrestrial on Sat May 18, 2013 10:15 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:What is the ultimate ethical and legal system?? What if there were ONLY an elaborate legal system -- and NO other governmental aspects (such as a Senate, House of Representatives, General Assembly, Security Council, etc?? In other words, what if the legal system were the government?? I guess I am a proponent of a United States of the Solar System -- with a Strong Supreme Court at the head of a Strong Legal System. I certainly do NOT have the background and aptitude to work out the details -- and I'd mostly like to just be along for the ride if a U.S.S.S. ever becomes a reality. I would get myself crucified in a heated legal debate. I know my limitations -- and they are rather substantial. We all have our crosses to bear...


    THE ULTIMATE ETHICAL AND LEGAL SYSTEM HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPLAINED!!! AND THE HUMANS HAVE MISSED THE SHOW. And that is not my problem because I have spent several years giving this world disclosure only to have agents and disinformation agents and trolls to waste my time and try to steal my life force energy. What a mess!!! Good luck, you gonna need it.



    I have no idea what the governments are going to do to get up to speed with these new energies now bombarding the planet! This will affect each individual. Some will be aware of it but they are few and far between. Some of us have surfaced here and there and shared out teams work and own personal star seed information.

    WE HAVE TOLD YOU THAT THE OLD FRAME WORK WILL BE SMASHED!!! You either get with the thuban star human program or you can go crazy! FACT! We have built the star human template!

    This is based on the laws of the universe! The superscede all man mad laws and government bylaws.

    ALL OF THEM!!! Even when they pretend they dont!


    I DID!!!


    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 18, 2013 11:28 am

    Thank-you Jester. I post on this particular site because it challenges me to think outside of my 'comfort-zone'. It is an environment which I am mildly uncomfortable with. It sort of forces me to be a 'Galactic Lone-Ranger'!! I've included a couple of quotes from another thread which help to reveal another way of looking at things -- and another way of doing business. I am not particularly receptive or rejecting. I try to be as neutral as possible. I don't understand everyone -- but I try to understand. My trying to understand seems to be my undoing.
    JesterTerrestrial wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:What is the ultimate ethical and legal system?? What if there were ONLY an elaborate legal system -- and NO other governmental aspects (such as a Senate, House of Representatives, General Assembly, Security Council, etc?? In other words, what if the legal system were the government?? I guess I am a proponent of a United States of the Solar System -- with a Strong Supreme Court at the head of a Strong Legal System. I certainly do NOT have the background and aptitude to work out the details -- and I'd mostly like to just be along for the ride if a U.S.S.S. ever becomes a reality. I would get myself crucified in a heated legal debate. I know my limitations -- and they are rather substantial. We all have our crosses to bear...


    THE ULTIMATE ETHICAL AND LEGAL SYSTEM HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPLAINED!!! AND THE HUMANS HAVE MISSED THE SHOW. And that is not my problem because I have spent several years giving this world disclosure only to have agents and disinformation agents and trolls to waste my time and try to steal my life force energy. What a mess!!! Good luck, you gonna need it.



    I have no idea what the governments are going to do to get up to speed with these new energies now bombarding the planet! This will affect each individual. Some will be aware of it but they are few and far between. Some of us have surfaced here and there and shared out teams work and own personal star seed information.

    WE HAVE TOLD YOU THAT THE OLD FRAME WORK WILL BE SMASHED!!! You either get with the thuban star human program or you can go crazy! FACT! We have built the star human template!

    This is based on the laws of the universe! The superscede all man mad laws and government bylaws.

    ALL OF THEM!!! Even when they pretend they dont!


    I DID!!!

    SuiGeneris wrote:
    Aquaries1111 wrote:I did notice some time past Carol when you swiftly deleted some disgusting Thuban posts from Raven and Fates (a new member) who just signed on to impress everyone here about his character. I have no qualms with the Thubans. I respect their religion, as I respect All religions.

    Religion? We are not a religion and you know it. You saying it like this shows how much you want to stir the pot.

    You say you respect all religions? Are you talking about tolerance and being accepting? and then you applaud when posts that might shed some light into the real you get censored out...ofc what was i thinking...double standards.
    I still remember back when The Mists of Avalon was first MP3 and many of us ranted when we were being censored out on Avalon and how this forum was to stand out for TRUTH and not being afraid to expose things..because after was all about information. What happened to that? But Debra i understand if you have no clue as to what i'm talking you weren't even here.

    FYI Thubans are all sovereign exhumans in self definition and independent of each other without gurus or leaders or any authoritarian hierarchy, including religious doctrine (like your beloved Ucadia)
    We are all apolitical by definition, we are Cosmic anarchists and communal sharers, etc etc.. All interested can go to the Thuban section of this forum to find out more.

    Btw, you can come here and talk all you want about your own character but you don't impress us...we know better.
    I don't know why you poke us on Skype when you obviously have no respect for us. Had i seen this post before yesterday i would've never added you back. If you find that you can't live without us and deep inside yourself you yearn for Logos, you need to humble yourself and show us that you've changed...for REAL. You are hereby removed from our inner Core chat indefinitely, and don't even bother requesting my boyfriend as a contact anymore. He's not interested...accept it already.

    JesterTerrestrial wrote:Yup there is so much more going on then most can understand.



    Obviously we are you who has been spamming this place with endless nabs is a problem. I have made mention of this several times.

    Oh well the original soul family of avalon has still done their work. Again most wont and dont understand what is going on with the reconfiguration of the matrix. Yup lots of love and lighters can talk about our work but how many can walk the path?

    One of my posts were deleted from the mists of avalon last week. I HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT UNTIL NOW. Yes it may have been a bit wild ok but what the heck. I guess there is a problem. Still.


    Yes I remember the real soul family and the true arcane information that was shared. Some of them came here to the mists of avalon when the fall out happened in the power strugles form the agency of the anti logos decided to censor and troll us because they are psychic vampires.

    HEY XEIA! - Those are some very good questions! NO! WAIT! Those are important questions! Again brought to you attention by someone who cares about whats going on. CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?




    I am not Hebrew or Jewish (in this incarnation anyway) but it has been suggested that I might've been in antiquity. I mostly identify with Judeo-Christianity and Conservative-Constitutionalism -- but I am still searching for a home which I can call 'Home, Sweet Home'. I think I might look closely at the Sanhedrin (in a rather narrow sense). I don't particularly like what the Jewish Nation and the Roman Empire had become by the Time of Christ -- yet I see much to learn from -- positively and negatively. I still have yet to see the Perfect Law of the Lord (in an International, Interplanetary, and Intergalactic form). There is a Missing Legal Link IMHO. I think I might try to think of the concept of 'Responsibility' in the context of the 71 member 'Great Sanhedrin' as a way of conceptualizing an idealistic Supreme Court of the United States of the Solar System. Something is VERY wrong with the ethical, legal, religious, and political structure of our world (and probably our solar system). Once again, that Archangelic-Thing needs to be clarified, examined, and resolved. Something is VERY wrong -- yet I don't have the perspective or the resources to properly deal with this matter. The eschatology in connection with all of this madness is especially troubling. I seem to make absolutely no friends with my conceptualizations and speculations -- yet I continue my passive (and seemingly pointless) quest. Consider 'Halakha'.

    Halakha (Hebrew: הֲלָכָה) (Sephardic: [halaˈχa]) —also transliterated Halocho (Ashkenazic: [haˈloχo]), or Halacha—is the collective body of religious laws for Jews, including biblical law (the 613 mitzvot) and later talmudic and rabbinic law, as well as customs and traditions.

    Judaism classically draws no distinction in its laws between religious and ostensibly non-religious life; Jewish religious tradition does not distinguish clearly between religious, national, racial, or ethnic identities.[1] Halakha guides not only religious practices and beliefs, but numerous aspects of day-to-day life. Halakha is often translated as "Jewish Law", although a more literal translation might be "the path" or "the way of walking". The word derives from the root that means to go or to walk.

    Historically in the diaspora, Halakha served many Jewish communities as an enforceable avenue of civil and religious law. Since the Age of Enlightenment, emancipation, and haskalah in the modern era, Jewish citizens are bound to Halakha only by their voluntary consent. Under contemporary Israeli law, however, certain areas of Israeli family and personal status law are under the authority of the rabbinic courts and are therefore treated according to Halakha. Some differences in Halakha itself are found among Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Sephardi, and Yemenite Jews, which are reflective of the historic and geographic diversity of various Jewish communities within the Diaspora.

    Etymology and terminology

    The name Halakha is derived from the Hebrew halakh הָלַךְ, which means "to walk" or "to go"; thus a literal translation does not yield "law", but rather "the way to go". The term Halakha may refer to a single law, to the literary corpus of rabbinic legal texts, or to the overall system of religious law.

    Halakha is often contrasted with Aggadah, the diverse corpus of rabbinic exegetical, narrative, philosophical, mystical, and other "non-legal" literatures. At the same time, since writers of Halakha may draw upon the aggadic and even mystical literature, there is a dynamic interchange between the genres.

    Halakha constitutes the practical application of the 613 mitzvot ("commandments", singular: mitzvah) in the Torah, (the five books of Moses, the "Written Law") as developed through discussion and debate in the classical rabbinic literature, especially the Mishnah and the Talmud (the "Oral law"), and as codified in the Mishneh Torah or Shulchan Aruch (the Jewish "Code of Law".)

    The Halakha is a comprehensive guide to all aspects of human life, both corporeal and spiritual. Its laws, guidelines, and opinions cover a vast range of situations and principles, in the attempt to realize what is implied by the central Biblical commandment to "be holy as I your God am holy". They cover what are claimed to better ways for a Jew to live, based on what is not stated, but has been derived from the Hebrew Bible.

    Because Halakha is developed and applied by various halakhic authorities, rather than one sole "official voice", different individuals and communities may well have different answers to halakhic questions. Controversies lend rabbinic literature much of its creative and intellectual appeal. With few exceptions, controversies are not settled through authoritative structures because during the age of exile Jews have lacked a single judicial hierarchy or appellate review process for Halakha. Instead, Jews interested in observing Halakha typically choose to follow specific rabbis or affiliate with a more tightly structured community.

    Halakha has been developed and pored over throughout the generations since before 500 BCE, in a constantly expanding collection of religious literature consolidated in the Talmud. First and foremost it forms a body of intricate judicial opinions, legislation, customs, and recommendations, many of them passed down over the centuries, and an assortment of ingrained behaviors, relayed to successive generations from the moment a child begins to speak. It is also the subject of intense study in yeshivas; see Torah study.

    Laws of the Torah

    See also Oral law; Halacha l'Moshe m'Sinai; Relationship between the Bible and the Mishnah and Talmud. Broadly, the Halakha comprises the practical application of the commandments (each one known as a mitzvah) in the Torah, as developed in subsequent rabbinic literature; see The Mitzvot and Jewish Law. According to the Talmud (Tractate Makot), there are 613 mitzvot ("commandments") in the Torah; in Hebrew these are known as the Taryag mitzvot תרי"ג מצוות. There are 248 positive mitzvot and 365 negative mitzvot given in the Torah, supplemented by seven mitzvot legislated by the rabbis of antiquity; see Rabbinical commandments.


    Jewish law may be categorized in various ways. Besides the basic categories applied to the mitzvot in antiquity, during the medieval period Jewish law was classified by such works as Maimonides' Mishneh Torah and Joseph Karo's Shulchan Aruch.

    Classical Rabbinic Judaism has two basic categories of laws:

    Laws believed revealed by God to the Jewish people at Mount Sinai (e.g. the written Pentateuch and elucidations therefrom, Halacha l'Moshe miSinai);
    Laws of human origin including Rabbinic decrees, interpretations, customs, etc.

    This division between revealed and rabbinic commandments (mitzvot) may influence the importance of a rule, its enforcement and the nature of its ongoing interpretation. Halakhic authorities may disagree on which laws fall into which categories or the circumstances (if any) under which prior Rabbinic rulings can be re-examined by contemporary rabbis, but all halakhic Jews hold that both categories exist and that the first category is immutable, with exceptions only for life-saving and similar emergency circumstances.

    A second classical distinction is between the Written Law, laws written in the Hebrew Bible, and the Oral Law, laws believed transmitted orally prior to compilation in texts such as the Mishnah, Talmud, and Rabbinic codes.

    Commandments are divided into positive and negative commands, which are treated differently in terms of divine and human punishment. Positive commandments (of which tradition holds there are 248) require an action to be performed and are considered to bring the performer closer to God. Negative commandments (traditionally 365 in number) forbid a specific action, and violations create a distance from God. In striving to "be holy" as God is holy, a person attempts so far as possible to live in accordance with God's wishes for humanity, striving to more completely live with each of these with every moment of one's life[citation needed].

    A further division is made between chukim ("decrees" — laws without obvious explanation, such as shatnez, the law prohibiting wearing clothing made of mixtures of linen and wool), mishpatim ("judgments" — laws with obvious social implications) and eduyot ("testimonies" or "commemorations", such as the Shabbat and holidays). Through the ages, various rabbinical authorities have classified the commandments in various other ways.

    A different approach divides the laws into a different set of categories:
    Laws in relation to God (bein adam la-Makom), and
    Laws about relations with other people (bein adam la-chavero).

    There is a notion in halakha that violations of the latter are more severe, in certain ways, because of the requirement that one must obtain forgiveness both from the offended person and from God.

    As a practical matter, the mitzvot also may be classified in line with how they might be implemented after the destruction of the Temple. Some mitzvot are relevant only in the Land of Israel. Many laws pertaining to holiness and purity can no longer be performed as the holy Sanctuary in Jerusalem no longer exists. Some laws require a kind of beit din (Jewish court) that no longer exists.[2]

    Within Talmudic literature, Jewish law is divided into the six orders of the Mishnah, which are categories by proximate subject matter: Zeraim ("Seeds") for agricultural laws and prayer, Moed ("Festival"), for the Sabbath and the Festivals, Nashim ("Women"), dealing primarily with marriage and divorce, Nezikin ("Damages"), for civil and criminal law, Kodashim ("Holy things"), for sacrifices and the dietary laws, and Tohorot ("Purities") for ritual purity. However, Talmudic texts often deal with laws outside these apparent subject categories. As a result, Jewish law came to be categorized in other ways in the post-Talmudic period.

    In the major codes of Jewish law, two other main categorization schemes are found. Maimonides' Mishneh Torah divides the laws into fourteen sections. The codification efforts that culminated in the Shulchan Aruch divide the law into four sections, including only laws that do not depend on being in the Land of Israel.


    Judaism regards the violation of the commandments, the mitzvot, to be a sin.

    The generic Hebrew word for any kind of sin is aveira ("transgression"). Based on the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) Judaism describes three levels of sin:
    Pesha — an "intentional sin"; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God
    Avon — a "sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion, committed against one's will and is not in line with one's true inner desires". It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God
    Chet — an "unintentional sin"

    Relatedly, the three terms - Chayyav, Patur, Mutar - in the Gemara and halakhic codes classify the permissibility of an action or the severity of its prohibition and punishment.
    Chayyav (חייב), literally "liable, obligated" means the one who transgresses the prohibition is responsible for his/her criminal actions, and deserves to pay the price for them.
    Patur (פטור) means "exempt" of liability to punishment, however the action is rabbinically forbidden.
    Mutar (מותר) means the action is permitted.

    Judaism understands that the vast majority of people, aside from those who are termed Tzadikim Gemurim (Hebrew: צדיק, "the righteous"), will succumb to sin in their lives. However, a state of sin does not condemn a person to damnation; there is always a road of teshuva (Hebrew: תשובה; repentance, literally: "return"). There are some classes of people for whom this is exceedingly difficult, such as those who commit adultery, as well as those who slander others.

    In earlier days, when Jews had a functioning court system (the beth din and the Sanhedrin high court), courts were empowered to administer physical punishments for various violations, upon conviction by far stricter standards of evidence than are acceptable in courts in modern democracies: execution, corporal punishment, incarceration, excommunication. Since the fall of the Temple, executions have been forbidden. Since the fall of the autonomous Jewish communities of Europe, the other punishments also have been discontinued.

    Today, then, one's accounts are reckoned solely by God. The Talmud says that although courts capable of executing sinners no longer exist, the prescribed penalties continue to be applied by Providence. For instance, someone who has committed a sin punishable by stoning might fall off a roof, or someone who ought to be executed by strangulation might drown.[3]

    Gentiles and Jewish law

    Judaism has always held that people who are not Jews are obliged only to follow the seven Noahide Laws; these are laws that the Oral Law derives from the covenant God made with Noah after the flood, which apply to all descendants of Noah, i.e., all living people. The Noahide laws are derived in the Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin 57a), and are listed here:
    Murder is forbidden.
    Theft is forbidden.
    Sexual immorality is forbidden.
    Eating flesh cut from a still-living animal is forbidden.
    Belief in and worship of, or prayer to, "idols" is forbidden.
    Blaspheming against God is forbidden.
    Society must establish a fair system of legal justice to administer law honestly.

    The details of these laws are codified from the Talmudic texts in the Mishneh Torah. They can be found mainly in chapters 9 and 10 of Hilkhoth Melakhim u'Milhamothehem in Sefer Shoftim, the fourteenth book of the Mishneh Torah.

    Sources and process

    The boundaries of Jewish law are determined through the halakhic process, a religious-ethical system of legal reasoning. Rabbis generally base their opinions on the primary sources of halakha as well as on precedent set by previous rabbinic opinions. The major sources and genre of halakha consulted include:
    The foundational Talmudic literature (especially the Mishna and the Babylonian Talmud) with commentaries;
    The post-Talmudic codificatory literature, such as Maimonides' Mishneh Torah and the Shulchan Aruch with commentaries;
    Regulations and other "legislative" enactments promulgated by rabbis and communal bodies: Gezeirah: "preventative legislation" of the Rabbis, intended to prevent violations of the commandments
    Takkanah: "positive legislation", practices instituted by the Rabbis not based (directly) on the commandments

    Minhag: Customs, community practices, and customary law, as well as the exemplary deeds of prominent (or local) rabbis;
    The she'eloth u-teshuvoth (responsa, literally "questions and answers") literature.
    Dina d'malchuta dina ("the law of the land is law"): an additional aspect of Halakha, being the principle recognizing non-Jewish laws and non-Jewish legal jurisdiction as binding on Jewish citizens, provided that they are not contrary to any laws of Judaism. This principle applies primarily in areas of commercial, civil and criminal law.

    In antiquity, the Sanhedrin functioned essentially as the Supreme Court and legislature for Judaism, and had the power to administer binding law, including both received law and its own Rabbinic decrees, on all Jews — rulings of the Sanhedrin became Halakha; see Oral law. That court ceased to function in its full mode in 40 CE. Today, the authoritative application of Jewish law is left to the local rabbi, and the local rabbinical courts, with only local applicability. In branches of Judaism that follow halakha, lay individuals make numerous ad-hoc decisions, but are regarded as not having authority to decide definitively.

    Since the days of the Sanhedrin, however, no body or authority has been generally regarded as having the authority to create universally recognized precedents. As a result, Halakha has developed in a somewhat different fashion from Anglo-American legal systems with a Supreme Court able to provide universally accepted precedents. Generally, contemporary halakhic arguments are effectively, yet unofficially, peer-reviewed. When a rabbinic posek ("decisor") proposes a new interpretation of a law, that interpretation may be considered binding for the posek's questioner or immediate community. Depending on the stature of the posek and the quality of the decision, an interpretation may also be gradually accepted by rabbis and members of similar Jewish communities.

    Under this system, there is a tension between the relevance of earlier and later authorities in constraining halakhic interpretation and innovation. On the one hand, there is a principle in Halakha not to overrule a specific law from an earlier era, after it got accepted by the community as a law or vow.[4] On the other hand, another principle recognizes the responsibility and authority of later authorities, and especially the posek handling a concurrent question. In addition, the Halakha embodies a wide range of principles that permit judicial discretion and deviation (Ben-Menahem). Generally speaking, a rabbi in any one period will not overrule specific laws from an earlier era, unless supported by a relevant earlier precedent; see list below. There are important exceptions to this principle, which empower the posek (decisor) or beth din (court) responsible for a given opinion.

    Notwithstanding the potential for innovation, rabbis and Jewish communities differ greatly on how they make changes in Halakha. Notably, poskim frequently extend the application of a law to new situations, but do not consider such applications as constituting a "change" in Halakha. For example, many Orthodox rulings concerning electricity are derived from rulings concerning fire, as electricity is deemed to be a form of fire. In contrast, Conservative Poskim consider that switching on electrical equipment is physically and chemically more like turning on a water tap (which is permissible) than lighting a fire (which is not permissible), and therefore permitted on Shabbat. The reformative Conservative Judaism, in some cases, explicitly interprets Halakha to take into account its view of contemporary society. For instance, most Conservative rabbis extend the application of certain Jewish obligations and permissible activities to women. See below: How Halakha is viewed today.

    Within certain Jewish communities, formal organized bodies do exist. Within Modern Orthodox Judaism, there is no one committee or leader, but Modern Orthodox rabbis generally agree with the views set by consensus by the leaders of the Rabbinical Council of America. Within Conservative Judaism, the Rabbinical Assembly has an official Committee on Jewish Law and Standards.


    Traditional Jewish law granted the Sages wide legislative powers. Technically, one may discern two powerful legal tools within the halakhic system:
    Gezeirah: "preventative legislation" of the Rabbis, intended to prevent violations of the commandments
    Takkanah: "positive legislation", practices instituted by the Rabbis not based (directly) on the commandments

    However, in common parlance sometimes people use the general term takkanah to refer either gezeirot or takkanot.

    Takkanot, in general, do not affect or restrict observance of Torah mitzvot. However, the Talmud states that in exceptional cases, the Sages had the authority to "uproot matters from the Torah" in certain cases. In Talmudic and classical halakhic literature, this authority refers to the authority to prohibit some things that would otherwise be biblically sanctioned (shev v'al ta'aseh). Rabbis may rule that a Torah mitzvah should not be performed, e.g. blowing the shofar on Shabbat, or taking the lulav and etrog on Shabbat. These takkanot are executed out of fear that some might otherwise carry the mentioned items between home and the synagogue, thus inadvertently violating a Sabbath melakha.

    Another rare and limited form of takkanah involved overriding Torah prohibitions. In some cases, the Sages allowed the temporary violation of a prohibition in order to maintain the Jewish system as a whole. This was part of the basis for Esther's relationship with Ahasuerus. (Sanhedrin)

    For general usage of takkanaot in Jewish history see the article Takkanah. For examples of this being used in Conservative Judaism see Conservative Halakha.

    Eras of history important in Jewish law

    See also: Rabbinic literature
    The Tannaim (literally the "repeaters") are the sages of the Mishnah (0–200)
    The Amoraim (literally the "sayers") are the sages of the Gemara (200–500)
    The Savoraim (literally the "reasoners") are the classical Persian rabbis (500–650)
    The Geonim (literally the "prides" or "geniuses") are the rabbis of Sura and Pumbeditha, in Babylonia (650–1038)
    The Rishonim (literally the "firsts") are the rabbis of the late medieval period (c. 1038–1563) preceding the Shulchan Aruch
    The Acharonim (literally the "lasts") are the rabbis from roughly 1500 to the present.

    Rules by which early Jewish law was derived [edit]

    Hermeneutics is the study of rules for the exact determination of the meaning of a text; it played a notable role in early rabbinic Jewish discussion. The sages investigated the rules by which the requirements of the oral law were derived from and established by the written law, i.e. the Torah. These rules relate to:
    grammar and exegesis
    the interpretation of certain words and letters and superfluous words, prefixes, and suffixes in general
    the interpretation of those letters, which, in certain words, are provided with points
    the interpretation of the letters in a word according to their numerical value
    the interpretation of a word by dividing it into two or more words
    the interpretation of a word according to its consonantal form or according to its vocalization
    the interpretation of a word by transposing its letters or by changing its vowels
    the logical deduction of a halakah from a Scriptural text or from another law

    Compilations of such hermeneutic rules were made in the earliest times. The tannaitic tradition recognizes three such collections, namely:
    the Seven Rules of Hillel (baraita at the beginning of Sifra; Ab. R. N. xxxvii.)
    the Thirteen Rules of R. Ishmael (baraita at the beginning of Sifra; this collection is merely an amplification of that of Hillel)
    the thirty-two Rules of R. Eliezer b. Jose ha-Gelili.

    The last-mentioned rules are contained in an independent baraita, which has been incorporated and preserved only in later works. They are intended for haggadic interpretation; but many of them are valid for the Halakah as well, coinciding with the rules of Hillel and Ishmael.

    Neither Hillel, Ishmael, nor Eliezer ben Jose ha-Gelili sought to give a complete enumeration of the rules of interpretation current in his day, but they omitted from their collections many rules that were then followed. They restricted themselves to a compilation of the principal methods of logical deduction, which they called "middot" (measures), although the other rules also were known by that term (comp. Midrash Sifre, Numbers 2 [ed. Friedmann, p. 2a]).

    Thirteen Rules of Rabbi Ishmael [edit]

    Main article: Baraita of Rabbi Ishmael

    One of these sets of rules is found in the siddur, from the "Introduction to Sifra" by Ishmael ben Elisha, c. 200 CE. These are known as the Thirteen Rules of Exegesis:
    Kal va-Chomer (a fortiori): We find a similar stringency in a more lenient case; how more so should that stringency apply to our stricter case!
    Gezera shava, similarity in phrase: We find a similar law in a verse containing a similar phrase to one in our verse. This method can only be used in a case where there is a tradition to use it.
    Binyan av, either by one or two Scriptures: We find a similar law in another case, why shouldn't we assume that the same law applies here? Now the argument may go against this inference, finding some law that applies to that case but not to ours. This type of refutation is valid only if the inference was from one Scripture, not if it was from two Scriptures.
    Klal ufrat, a generality and a particularity: If we find a phrase signifying a particularity following that of a generality, the particularity particularises the generality and we only take that particular case into account.
    Prat ukhlal, a particularity and a generality: If the order is first the particularity and then the generality, we add from the generality upon the particularity, even to a broad extent.
    Klal ufrat ukhlal, a generality, a particularity and a generality: If there is a particularity inserted between two generalities, we only add cases similar to the particularity.
    Klal shehu tzarich lifrat, a generality that requires a particularity, and a particularity that requires a generality: If it is impossible to have the more general law without more specific examples or more specific cases without the statement of the general law, the above three rules don't apply.
    Every thing that was within the general rule and was excluded from the rule to teach us a rule, we don't consider this rule as pertaining only to this excluded case, but to the entire general case.
    Anything that was included in a general rule, and was excluded to be susceptible to one rule that is according to its subject, it is only excluded to be treated more leniently but not more strictly.
    Anything that was included in a general rule and was excluded to be susceptible to one rule that is not according to its subject, it is excluded to be treated both more leniently and more strictly.
    Anything that was included in a general rule and was excluded to be treated by a new rule, we cannot restore it to its general rule unless Scripture restores it explicitly.
    A matter that is inferred from its context, and a matter that is inferred from its ending.
    The resolution of two Scriptures that contradict each other [must wait] until a third Scripture arrives and resolves their apparent contradiction.

    Historical analysis

    The antiquity of the rules can be determined only by the dates of the authorities who quote them; in general, they can not safely be declared older than the tanna to whom they are first ascribed. It is certain, however, that the seven middot of Hillel and the thirteen of Ishmael are earlier than the time of Hillel himself, who was the first to transmit them.

    The Talmud itself gives no information concerning the origin of the middot, although the Geonim regarded them as Sinaitic. Modern historians believe that it is decidedly erroneous to consider the middot as traditional from the time of Moses on Sinai.

    The middot seem to have been first laid down as abstract rules by the teachers of Hillel, though they were not immediately recognized by all as valid and binding. Different schools interpreted and modified them, restricted or expanded them, in various ways. Akiba and Ishmael and their scholars especially contributed to the development or establishment of these rules. Akiba devoted his attention particularly to the grammatical and exegetical rules, while Ishmael developed the logical. The rules laid down by one school were frequently rejected by another because the principles that guided them in their respective formulations were essentially different. According to Akiba, the divine language of the Torah is distinguished from the speech of men by the fact that in the former no word or sound is superfluous.

    Some scholars have observed a similarity between these rabbinic rules of interpretation and the hermeneutics of ancient Hellenistic culture. For example, Saul Lieberman argues that the *names* (e.g. kal vahomer) of Rabbi Ishmael's middot are Hebrew translations of Greek terms, although the methods of those middot are not Greek in origin.[5]

    Views today

    See also: Talmud#Present day

    Orthodox Judaism holds that Halakha is the divine law as laid out in the Torah (five books of Moses), rabbinical laws, rabbinical decrees and customs combined. The rabbis, who made many additions and interpretations of Jewish Law, did so only in accordance with regulations they believe were given for this purpose to Moses on Mount Sinai, see Deuteronomy 17:11. See Orthodox Judaism, Beliefs about Jewish law and tradition.

    Conservative Judaism holds that Halakha is normative and binding, and is developed as a partnership between people and God based on Sinaitic Torah. While there are a wide variety of Conservative views, a common belief is that Halakha is, and has always been, an evolving process subject to interpretation by rabbis in every time period. See Conservative Judaism, Beliefs.

    Reform Judaism and Reconstructionist Judaism both hold that modern views of how the Torah and rabbinic law developed imply that the body of rabbinic Jewish law is no longer normative (seen as binding) on Jews today. Those in the traditionalist wing of these movements believe that the halakha represents a personal starting-point, holding that each Jew is obligated to interpret the Torah, Talmud and other Jewish works for themselves, and this interpretation will create separate commandments for each person.

    Those in the liberal and classical wings of Reform believe that in this day and era most Jewish religious rituals are no longer necessary, and many hold that following most Jewish laws is actually counterproductive. They propose that Judaism has entered a phase of ethical monotheism, and that the laws of Judaism are only remnants of an earlier stage of religious evolution, and need not be followed. This is considered wrong, and even heretical, by Orthodox and Conservative Judaism.

    Humanistic Jews value the Torah as a historical, political, and sociological text written by their ancestors. They do not believe "that every word of the Torah is true, or even morally correct, just because the Torah is old". The Torah is both disagreed with and questioned. Humanistic Jews believe that the entire Jewish experience, and not only the Torah, should be studied as a source for Jewish behavior and ethical values.[6]


    Despite its internal rigidity, halakha has generally been a flexible system, addressing issues on the basis of circumstance and precedent. The classical approach has permitted new rulings regarding modern technology. These rulings guide the observant about the proper use of electricity on the Sabbath and holidays within the parameters of halakhah. Indeed, many scholarly tomes have been published and are constantly being reviewed ensuring the maximum coordination between electrical appliances and technology with the needs of the religiously observant Jew, with a great range of opinions. Often, as to the applicability of the law in any given situation, the proviso is to "consult your local rabbi or posek". Modern critics, however, have charged that with the rise of movements that challenge the "divine" authority of halakha, traditional Jews have greater reluctance to change, not only the laws themselves but also other customs and habits, than traditional Rabbinical Judaism did prior to the advent of Reform in the 19th century.

    Differences between Orthodox and Conservative Judaism

    Orthodox Jews maintain Halakha is derived from the divine law of the Torah (Bible), rabbinical laws, rabbinical decrees and customs combined. As such it should be adhered to as an unalterable authority. They also believe there are traditional formulas that date back to Moses on how the divine law may be interpreted - see above, "Rules by which early Jewish law was derived". While Conservative Jews have varied views regarding the origin of the Torah and its authority today, and believe it can be continuously reinterpreted. Their view of Halakha has given rise to substantial differences in approach as well as result.

    Orthodox Judaism

    Orthodox Jews believe that Halakha is a religious system, whose core represents the revealed will of God. Although Orthodox Judaism acknowledges that rabbis made many decisions and decrees regarding Jewish Law where the written Torah itself is non-specific, they did so only in accordance with regulations given to them by Moses on Mount Sinai (see Deuteronomy 5:8-13). These regulations were transmitted orally until shortly after the destruction of the second temple. They were then recorded in the Mishnah, and explained in the Talmud and commentaries throughout history, including today. Orthodox Judaism believes that subsequent interpretations have been derived with the utmost accuracy and care. The most widely accepted codes of Jewish law are known as Mishneh Torah and the Shulchan Aruch. No rabbi has the right to change Jewish law unless they clearly understand how it coincides with the precepts of the Talmud and later codes of Jewish law. Later commentaries were accepted by many rabbis as final rule, however, other rabbis may disagree.[citation needed]

    Orthodox Judaism has a range of opinions on the circumstances and extent to which change is permissible. Haredi Jews generally hold that even minhagim (customs) must be retained and existing precedents cannot be reconsidered. Modern Orthodox authorities are generally more inclined to permit limited changes in customs, and some reconsideration of precedent. All Orthodox authorities, however, agree that only later Rabbinical interpretations are subject to reconsideration, and hold that core sources of Divine written and oral law, such as the Torah the Mishnah and the Talmud, cannot be overridden.[citation needed]

    Conservative Judaism

    For more details on this topic, see Conservative Halakha.

    One view held by Conservative Judaism is that while God is real, the Torah is not the word of God in a literal sense. However, in this view the Torah is still held as mankind's record of its understanding of God's revelation, and thus still has divine authority. In this view, traditional Jewish law is still seen as binding. Jews who hold to this view generally try to use modern methods of historical study to learn how Jewish law has changed over time, and are in some cases more willing to change Jewish law in the present.

    A key practical difference between Conservative and Orthodox approaches is that Conservative Judaism holds that its Rabbinical body's powers are not limited to reconsidering later precedents based on earlier sources, but the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards (CJLS) is empowered to override Biblical and Taanitic prohibitions by takkanah (decree) when perceived to be inconsistent with modern requirements and/or views of ethics. The CJLS has used this power on a number of occasions, most famously in the "driving teshuva", which says that if someone is unable to walk to any synagogue on the Sabbath, and their commitment to observance is so loose that not attending synagogue may lead them to drop it altogether, their rabbi may give them a dispensation to drive there and back; and more recently in its decision prohibiting the taking of evidence on Mamzer status on the grounds that implementing such a status is immoral. The CJLS has also held that the Talmudic concept of Kavod HaBriyot permits lifting rabbinic decrees (as distinct from carving narrow exceptions) on grounds of human dignity, and used this principle in a December 2006 opinion lifting all rabbinic prohibitions on homosexual conduct (the opinion held that only male-male anal sex was forbidden by the Bible and that this remained prohibited). Conservative Judaism also made a number of changes to the role of women in Judaism, including counting women in the minyan and ordaining women as rabbis. The latter was accomplished by simple vote on the faculty of the JTS. Orthodox Judaism holds that takkanot (Rabbinical decrees) can only supplement and can never nullify Biblical law, and significant decisions must be accompanied by scholarly responsa citing sources and halakhic precedent.

    An example of how different views of the origin of Jewish law inform Conservative approaches to interpreting that law involves the CJLS's acceptance of Rabbi Elie Kaplan Spitz's responsum decreeing the Biblical category of mamzer as "inoperative", in which The CJLS adopted the Responsum's view that of how, in the Conservative view of Halakha, the "morality which we learn through the unfolding narrative of our tradition" informs the application of Mosaic law:

    We cannot conceive of God sanctioning undeserved suffering ... When a law of Torah conflicts with morality, when the law is 'unpleasant,' we are committed to find a way to address the problem… We are willing to do explicitly what was largely implicit in the past, namely, to make changes when needed on moral grounds. It is our desire to strengthen Torah that forces us to recognize, explicitly the overriding importance of morality, a morality which we learn from the larger, unfolding narrative of our tradition.

    The responsum cited several examples of how, in Spitz's view, the Rabbinic Sages declined to enforce punishments explicitly mandated by Torah law. The examples include the "trial of the accused adulteress (Sotah)", the "Law of the Breaking of the Neck of the Heifer" and the application of the death penalty for the "rebellious child". Spitz argues that the punishment of the Mamzer has been effectively inoperative for nearly two thousand years due to deliberate rabbinic inaction (with a few rule-proving counterexamples, including the 18th century Orthodox rabbi Ismael ha-Kohen of Modena, who decreed that a child should have the word "mamzer" tattooed to his forehead). Further he suggested that the Rabbis have long regarded the punishment declared by the Torah as immoral, and came to the conclusion that no court should agree to hear testimony on "mamzerut". His motion was passed by the CJLS.

    The decision represented a watershed for Conservative Judaism because it represented an explicit abrogation of a Biblical injunction on the grounds of contemporary morality, as distinct from exigency. The dissenters, who included Rabbi Joel Roth as well as a partial concurrence by Rabbi Daniel Nevins, argued for reaffirming the classical halakhic framework in which human decrees inform and often limit but never wholly abrogate law believed to be of Divine origin, stating that "we should acknowledge that God's law is beyond our authority to eliminate", but should continue the traditional approach of applying strict evidentiary rules and presumptions that tend to render enforcement unlikely. He also argued that the current framework is moral, both because proving mamzer status sufficiently beyond all doubt is already so difficult that it is rare, and because the mere existence and possibility of mamzerut status, even if rarely enforced, creates an important incentive for divorcing parties to obtain a get (Jewish religious divorce) to avoid the sin of adultery. He cited a responsum by prominent Haredi Orthodox Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef as an example of how the traditional approach works. Rabbi Yosef was faced with the child of a woman who had left a religious marriage without religious divorce and had a child in the second marriage, seemingly an open-and-shut case of Mamzer status. Rabbi Yosef proceeded to systematically discredit the evidence that the former marriage had ever taken place. The Ketubah was mysteriously not found and hence disqualified, and the officiating Rabbi's testimony was never sufficiently corroborated and hence not credible. Rabbi Yosef then found reason to doubt that the new husband was ever the father, finding that because the ex-husband occasionally delivered alimony personally, an ancient presumption (one of many) that any time a husband and wife are alone together the law presumes intercourse has taken place governed the case. He held that Jewish law could not disprove, and hence had to conclude, that the original husband really was the child's father and there was no case of Mamzer status.

    Codes of Jewish law

    The Torah and the Talmud are not formal codes of law: they are sources of law. There are many formal codes of Jewish law that have developed over the past two thousand years. These codes have influenced, and in turn, have been influenced by, the responsa; History of Responsa thus provides an informative complement to the survey below.

    The major codes are:
    The Mishnah, composed by Rabbi Judah the Prince, in 200 CE, as a basic outline of the state of the Oral Law in his time. This was the framework upon which the Talmud was based; the Talmud's dialectic analysis of the content of the Mishna (gemara; completed c. 500) became the basis for all later halakhic decisions and subsequent codes.
    Codifications by the Geonim of the halakhic material in the Talmud. An early work, She'iltot ("Questions") by Achai of Shabcha (c. 752), discusses over 190 Mitzvot — exploring and addressing various questions on these. The first legal codex proper, Halakhot Pesukot ("Decided Laws"), by Yehudai Gaon (c. 760), rearranges the Talmud passages in a structure manageable to the layman. (It was written in vernacular Aramaic, and subsequently translated into Hebrew as Hilkhot Riu). Halakhot Gedolot ("Great Law Book"), by R. Simeon Kayyara, published two generations later, contains extensive additional material, mainly from Responsa and Monographs of the Geonim, and is presented in a form that is closer to the original Talmud language and structure. (Probably since it was distributed, also, amongst the newly established Ashkenazi communities.) The She'iltot was influential on both subsequent works.
    The Hilchot of the Rif, Rabbi Isaac Alfasi (1013–1103), summations of the legal material in the Talmud. Alfasi transcribed the Talmud's halakhic conclusions verbatim, without the surrounding deliberation; he also excludes all Aggadic (non-legal, homiletic) matter. The Hilchot soon superseded the geonic codes, as it contained all the decisions and laws then relevant, and additionally, served as an accessible Talmudic commentary; it has been printed with almost every subsequent edition of the Talmud.
    The Mishneh Torah (also known as the Yad HaHazaka for its 14 volumes; "yad" has a numeric value of 14), by Maimonides (Rambam; 1135–1204). This work encompasses the full range of Talmudic law; it is organized and reformulated in a logical system — in 14 books, 83 sections and 1000 chapters — with each Halakha stated clearly. The Mishneh Torah is very influential to this day, and several later works reproduce passages verbatim. It also includes a section on Metaphysics and fundamental beliefs. (Some claim this section draws heavily on Aristotelian science and metaphysics; others suggest that it is within the tradition of Saadia Gaon.) It is the main source of practical Halakha for many Yemenite Jews — mainly Baladi and Dor Daim — as well as for a growing community referred to as talmidei haRambam.
    The work of the Rosh, Rabbi Asher ben Jehiel (1250?/1259?–1328), an abstract of the Talmud, concisely stating the final halakhic decision and quoting later authorities, notably Alfasi, Maimonides, and the Tosafists. This work superseded Rabbi Alfasi's and has been printed with almost every subsequent edition of the Talmud.
    The Sefer Mitzvot Gadol (The "SeMaG") of Rabbi Moses ben Jacob of Coucy (first half of the 13th century, Coucy, Northern France). "SeMaG" is organised around the 365 negative and the 248 positive commandments, separately discussing each of them according to the Talmud (in light of the commentaries of Rashi and the Tosafot) and the other codes existent at the time. Sefer Mitzvot Katan ("SeMaK") by Isaac ben Joseph of Corbeil is an abridgement of the SeMaG, including additional practical Halakhah, as well as agaddic and ethical material.
    "The Mordechai" — by Mordecai ben Hillel, d. Nuremberg 1298 — serves both as a source of analysis, as well of decided law. Mordechai considered about 350 halakhic authorities, and was widely influential, particularly amongst the Ashkenazi and Italian communities. Although organised around the Hilchot of the Rif, it is, in fact, an independent work. It has been printed with every edition of the Talmud since 1482.
    The Arba'ah Turim (The Tur, The Four Columns) by Rabbi Jacob ben Asher (1270–1343, Toledo, Spain). This work traces the Halakha from the Torah text and the Talmud through the Rishonim, with the Hilchot of Alfasi as its starting point. Ben Asher followed Maimonides's precedent in arranging his work in a topical order, however, the Tur covers only those areas of Jewish law that were in force in the author's time. The code is divided into four main sections; almost all codes since this time have followed the Tur's arrangement of material. Orach Chayim: "The Way of Life" worship and ritual observance in the home and synagogue, through the course of the day, the weekly sabbath and the festival cycle.
    Yoreh De'ah: "Teach Knowledge" assorted ritual prohibitions, dietary laws and regulations concerning menstrual impurity.
    Even Ha'ezer: "The Rock of the Helpmate" marriage, divorce and other issues in family law.
    Choshen Mishpat: "The Breastplate of Judgment" The administration and adjudication of civil law.

    The Beit Yosef, and the Shulchan Aruch of Rabbi Yosef Karo (1488–1575). The Beit Yosef is a huge commentary on the Tur in which Rabbi Karo traces the development of each law from the Talmud through later rabbinical literature (examining thirty-two authorities, beginning with the Talmud and ending with the works of Rabbi Israel Isserlein). The Shulchan Aruch is, in turn, a condensation of the Beit Yosef — stating each ruling simply (literally translated, Shulchan Aruch means "set table"); this work follows the chapter divisions of the Tur. The Shulchan Aruch, together with its related commentaries, is considered by many to be the most authoritative compilation of halakha since the Talmud. In writing the Shulchan Aruch, Rabbi Karo based his rulings on three authorities — Maimonides (Rambam), Asher ben Jehiel (Rosh), and Isaac Alfasi (Rif); he considered the Mordechai in inconclusive cases. Sephardic Jews, generally, refer to the Shulchan Aruch as the basis for their daily practice.
    The works of Rabbi Moshe Isserles ("Rema"; Kraków, Poland, 1525 to 1572). Rema noted that the Shulchan Aruch was based on the Sephardic tradition, and he created a series of glosses to be appended to the text of the Shulkhan Aruch for cases where Sephardi and Ashkenazi customs differed (based on the works of Yaakov Moelin, Israel Isserlein, and Israel Bruna). The glosses are called Hamapah, the "Tablecloth" for the "Set Table". His comments are now incorporated into the body of all printed editions of the Shulchan Aruch, typeset in a different script; today, "Shulchan Aruch" refers to the combined work of Karo and Isserles. Isserles' Darkhei Moshe is similarly a commentary on the Tur and the Beit Yosef.
    The Levush Malkhut ("Levush") of Rabbi Mordecai Yoffe (c. 1530-1612). A ten volume work, five discussing Halakha at a level "midway between the two extremes: the lengthy Beit Yosef of Caro on the one hand, and on the other Caro's Shulchan Aruch together with the Mappah of Isserles, which is too brief", that particularly stresses the customs and practices of the Jews of Eastern Europe. The Levush was exceptional among the codes, in that it treated certain Halakhot from a Kabbalistic standpoint.
    The Shulchan Aruch HaRav of Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liadi (c. 1800) was an attempt to recodify the law as it stood at that time — incorporating commentaries on the Shulchan Aruch, and subsequent responsa — and thus stating the decided halakha, as well as the underlying reasoning. The work was written, partly, so that laymen would be able to study Jewish law. Unfortunately, most of the work was lost in a fire prior to publication. It is the basis of practice for Chabad-Lubavitch and other Hasidic groups, and is quoted as authoritative by many subsequent works, Hasidic and non-Hasidic alike.
    Works structured directly on the Shulchan Aruch, providing analysis in light of Acharonic material and codes. The Mishnah Berurah of Rabbi Yisroel Meir ha-Kohen, (the "Chofetz Chaim", Poland, 1838–1933) is a commentary on the "Orach Chayim" section of the Shulchan Aruch, discussing the application of each Halakha in light of all subsequent Acharonic decisions. It has become the authoritative halakhic guide for much of Orthodox Ashkenazic Jewry in the postwar period. Aruch HaShulchan by Rabbi Yechiel Michel Epstein (1829–1888) is a scholarly analysis of Halakha through the perspective of the major Rishonim. The work follows the structure of the Tur and the Shulchan Aruch; rules dealing with vows, agriculture, and ritual purity, are discussed in a second work known as Aruch HaShulchan he'Atid. Kaf HaChaim[disambiguation needed] on Orach Chayim and parts of Yoreh De'ah, by the Sephardi sage Yaakov Chaim Sofer (Baghdad and Jerusalem, 1870–1939) is similar in scope, authority and approach to the Mishnah Berurah. Yalkut Yosef, by Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef, is a voluminous, widely cited and contemporary work of Halakha, based on the rulings of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.
    "Layman oriented" digests of Halakha. The Kitzur Shulchan Aruch of Rabbi Shlomo Ganzfried (Hungary 1804–1886), based on the very strict Hungarian customs of the 19th century, became immensely popular after its publication due to its simplicity. This work is not binding in the same way as the Mishneh Torah or the Shulchan Aruch. It is still popular in Orthodox Judaism as a framework for study, if not always for practice. Chayei Adam and Chochmat Adam by Avraham Danzig (Poland, 1748–1820) are similar Ashkenazi works, but are regarded as a more appropriate basis for practice.[citation needed] The Ben Ish Chai by Yosef Chaim (Baghdad, 1832–1909) is a corresponding Sephardi work.
    Temimei Haderech ("A Guide To Jewish Religious Practice") by Rabbi Isaac Klein with contributions from the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards of the Rabbinical Assembly. This scholarly work is based on the previous traditional law codes, but written from a Conservative Jewish point of view. It is not accepted among Orthodox Jews.

    See also
    Mishpat Ivri
    Jewish ethics
    Jewish medical ethics


    1.^ Hershel Edelheit, Abraham J. Edelheit, History of Zionism: A Handbook and Dictionary, p.3, citing Solomon Zeitlin, The Jews. Race, Nation, or Religion? ( Philadelphia: Dropsie College Press, 1936).
    2.^ p.11, R. Yisrael Meir haKohen (Chofetz Chayim), The Concise Book of Mitzvoth.
    3.^ Ketubot 30b
    4.^ Rema Choshen Mishpat Chapter 25
    5.^ Lieberman, Saul. “Rabbinic interpretation of scripture” and “The hermeneutic rules of the aggadah” in Hellenism in Jewish Palestine (NY, 1950) See also, Daube, David. "Rabbinic methods of interpretation and Hellenistic rhetoric" HUCA 22 (1949) 239ff.
    6.^ "FAQ for Humanistic Judaism, Reform Judaism, Humanists, Humanistic Jews, Congregation, Arizona, AZ". Retrieved 2012-11-08.

    J. David Bleich, Contemporary Halakhic Problems (5 vols), Ktav. ISBN 0-87068-450-7, ISBN 0-88125-474-6, ISBN 0-88125-315-4, ISBN 0-87068-275-X, Feldheim ISBN 1-56871-353-3
    Menachem Elon, Ha-Mishpat ha-Ivri (trans. Jewish Law: History, Sources, Principles ISBN 0-8276-0389-4), Jewish Publication Society. ISBN 0-8276-0537-4
    Jacob Katz, Divine Law in Human Hands — Case Studies in Halakhic Flexibility, Magnes Press. ISBN 965-223-980-1
    Moshe Koppel, "Meta-Halakhah: Logic, Intuition, and the Unfolding of Jewish Law," ISBN 1-56821-901-6
    Mendell Lewittes, Jewish Law: An Introduction, Jason Aronson. ISBN 1-56821-302-6
    Daniel Pollack ed., Contrasts in American and Jewish Law, Ktav. ISBN 0-88125-750-8
    Emanuel Quint, A Restatement of Rabbinic Civil Law (11 vols), Gefen Publishing. ISBN 0-87668-765-6, ISBN 0-87668-799-0, ISBN 0-87668-678-1, ISBN 0-87668-396-0, ISBN 0-87668-197-6, ISBN 1-56821-167-8, ISBN 1-56821-319-0, ISBN 1-56821-907-5, ISBN 0-7657-9969-3, ISBN 965-229-322-9, ISBN 965-229-323-7, ISBN 965-229-375-X
    Emanuel Quint, Jewish Jurisprudence: Its Sources & Modern Applications , Taylor and Francis. ISBN 3-7186-0293-8
    Steven H. Resnicoff, Understanding Jewish Law, LexisNexis, 2012. ISBN 9781422490204
    Joel Roth, Halakhic Process: A Systemic Analysis, Jewish Theological Seminary. ISBN 0-87334-035-3
    Joseph Soloveitchik, Halakhic Man, Jewish Publication Society trans. Lawrence Kaplan. ISBN 0-8276-0397-5
    "Halakah". Encyclopedia Americana. 1920.
    "Halacha". New International Encyclopedia. 1905.


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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  JesterTerrestrial on Sat May 18, 2013 2:15 pm

    I reside in my body so wherever i go i am at home. I might not always be comfortable there but all i can do is find my self here and now!


    just like


    lol not the first time I have said this...for FREE!

    It would also seem that true marriage is to marry yourself and your mirror! We have moved into unprecedented territory on the timelines as decoded and shared as part of the THUBAN disclosure!

    The information is so real that most forums have to ban us! I know that i am sealed by the logos and we are the official agents for GOD!

    Well have a great day!


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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 18, 2013 3:31 pm

    magamud wrote:Religious discipline was set up to hold Gods word in place. It would be inevitable that man would lose the truth of his law and use his own intellect to start his own. This is what is meant that babes can understand his law and the pharisees would not. God places the harvest so we can evolve in consciousness. The power in this creates man to be unbalanced in his thinking leaving his body for spiritual matters and leaving his spirit for physical matters. Jesus knew this as to why he said man will be against man. The first and foremost thing is to recognize christ as our savior. Then knowing christ will be the most important thing and the devils drama will wash away.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    JesterTerrestrial wrote:I reside in my body so wherever i go i am at home. I might not always be comfortable there but all i can do is find my self here and now!


    just like


    lol not the first time I have said this...for FREE!

    It would also seem that true marriage is to marry yourself and your mirror! We have moved into unprecedented territory on the timelines as decoded and shared as part of the THUBAN disclosure!

    The information is so real that most forums have to ban us! I know that i am sealed by the logos and we are the official agents for GOD!

    Well have a great day!

    Thank-you magamud and Jester. I tend to think that there must be a minimalist and benevolent combination of Religion and Government OR things will go to hell very, very quickly -- and you will end-up in a helluva mess. I suspect that's how we got into the bind we've been in for thousands of years. I've been trying to reduce government and religion to the best common-denominator I can conceptualize -- yet very few seem to resonate with this effort. The Human Race seems to have made it's choice quite clear -- for thousands and thousands of years. It seems as if the WHOLE WORLD Has Been Deceived -- and Believed Countless Lies. Perhaps most every soul is this solar system rebelled against the TRUE CREATOR GOD in the Garden of Eden -- and CONTINUES in this rebellion. I SO hope this isn't the case -- yet the evidence seems to be mounting in this direction. Perhaps all is mostly lost at this point. I go round and round with a very spiritual, ethical, and religious person regarding the Centrality and Supremacy of the Teachings Attributed to Jesus. This person insists upon focusing upon certain select passages in the Book of Revelation -- even though I have been attempting to open their eyes for many years. They seem to have absolutely made up their mind -- and reasoning with them is an exercise in futility. Consider combining the Teachings Attributed to Jesus with the Great Sanhedrin concept. Why have neither of these Theological and Legal Milestones gained much (if any) traction over the past couple of thousand years??? Whether these are the best references or not -- consider at least reading Israel and the Nations by F.F. Bruce -- side by side with Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen. I'm doing my best to help us somehow get this right -- yet hardly anyone will lift their little-finger to render assistance in this important matter. I fear that Probation Closed Long Ago. Some of you know what I'm talking about. Most of you don't seem to give a damn. I fear there will be Weeping, Wailing, and Gnashing of Teeth When All of Us See What Those Who Were Loyal to Their Creator Got in Comparison to the Whirlwind Reaped by the Rebels. I've swung back and forth between the Sovereignty of God and Human Freedom -- but it seems as if Humanity has been serving False-Gods in Pursuit of False-Goals. "Thou Shalt Have No False Gods" and "Thou Shalt Not Be Irresponsible". Something is VERY, VERY, VERY Wrong in this Solar System -- and Most Seem Content to Look the Other Way...

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon May 20, 2013 7:46 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  JesterTerrestrial on Sat May 18, 2013 7:40 pm

    Hey Oxy! It was said that the years between 2013 and 2017 are going to be massive times of transitions! Astrological speaking. I am not chart reader but had our team not been disrupted we might of had better access to the real information and real space weather that affect us on an energetic level.

    Well the time to discuss this has almost past and really is must time for action! There are some dates in July regarding the possibilities of real contact and also involves 4D star cruisers.


    Thoughts are electric and emotions are magnetic so the story goes! So what I am saying is that I love flying saucers as organic life form entities 4d light shadows. The reverse of 2D shadows. See we talked once about how your mind can move your arm and hand making a shadow on the ground. Ever play with your shadow lol Big Grin 2 try it. Come to my island of avalon and get centered in your mind and body. Then watch your shadow as your hand gets closer to the ground or table or whatever and see how your mind is controling your motion and how the shadow moves with it. Well what if the higher dimension are controled using similar mental controls as part of the 6 directions spirtual tools.


    LOL I DID The Winner

    Put it in FRONT of you.

    Put it in BACK of you

    Put it in LEFT of you

    Put it in RIGHT of you

    Put it in ABOVE of you

    Put it in BELOW of you




    The numbers of humans who have hybridized with the number has said to been about 200 million but I can not verify this. One thing I know for sure is that there sure are a lot of dizzy people around and they have no idea whats really going on.

    Look at all the BS in the main stream media and all these people talking about fake alien invasions and new age guru made up religion. Selling their books and spam blogs that get relinked endlessly as part of a psy ops to disrupt the conversation!

    The money changers will NOT! cross the gates into new jeresuluem! Malletzky


    OH YES I DO!!!

    We have told the world that the BIBLE and the POWER it holds as a spiritual authority must be dissolved and retired. FACT! The time line and revelations and everything it was pointing is what is happening. The uprising upon the world that we have been observing from the higher mind even when were cut off. I mean if you had any idea what happened at project avalon/camelot where the soul family of avalon met and began to speak for FREE! and when the heat got hot they played us out because we put our life on the line to speak on a forum that we did not have control of and when the power struggle played out they sold their soul. Blink



    Michael Toldnes - MERLIN JT! MAAT!!!


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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun May 19, 2013 12:00 am

    Thank-you Jester. SuiGeneris made an interesting, but chilling, comment:

    "FYI Thubans are all sovereign exhumans in self definition and independent of each other without gurus or leaders or any authoritarian hierarchy, including religious doctrine (like your beloved Ucadia). We are all apolitical by definition, we are Cosmic anarchists and communal sharers, etc etc.. All interested can go to the Thuban section of this forum to find out more."

    Perhaps someday there will be Humans Anonymous and Friends of Orthodoxymoron!!

    I frankly don't know what to believe, at this point. How does one absolutely verify ANYTHING -- especially that which is historical or otherworldly?? I tend to think that Deception is Rampant. I'd still like to know if the Solar System Administration of the past few thousand years has been legitimate and ethical?! Who is the RIGHTFUL Owner of this solar system??? Where did most of the technology and wonders of the world REALLY originate??? What percentage of the beings present in this solar system are in chronic rebellion against their Creator?? Has anyone seen The Changeling?? What if this solar system isn't ours?? What if our Fun in the Sun is almost over??? I have NO idea about any of this -- yet I sense a Monumental Spiritual War which rages just out of sight. I think who all of us are on a reincarnational and ancient basis might be the biggest-secret and the biggest can of worms imaginable. What we see, hear, and experience in this particular incarnation might be just the very tip of a HUGE iceberg. The next few years should be interesting indeed...

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon May 20, 2013 7:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  JesterTerrestrial on Sun May 19, 2013 2:35 am

    Well it looks to me like the soul family of avalon is back here on earth claiming what is ours!

    We have shared our understanding of whats going on and the world crucified us. Ya we might a bit wild but just you wait until we actually get started... LOOK THE HELL OUT!!!











    Crystal Skull Matrix, The Royal House of Avalon and The God Complex


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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun May 19, 2013 8:58 am

    The Thuban-Stuff is sort of cool -- but I often find it to be too 'out-there'. How did the world crucify you, Jester?? I often try to make this thread an 'out-there' fantasy -- but with a serious and down to earth message. I think that if you really study this Study-Guide, you will eventually benefit greatly from it. But really, any reasonable study of anything is probably worthwhile. I'm probably just trying to convince myself that this madness I'm in the middle of has some intrinsic value. I guess I'm searching for a Reason to Be. "To Be -- Or Not to Be?? Is That the Question??" I'm enjoying reading Israel and the Nations by F.F. Bruce -- Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen -- and the 1928 Book of Common Prayer -- while listening to Sacred Classical Music. I am NOT a Latter-Day Luddite!! I'm really not -- but certain historical references should NOT be neglected. Siriusly, I actually prefer this sort of thing!!

    Please consider this thread in the context of the current thread.

    They say that all roads lead to Rome. This may be true...but is there a four-lane superhighway between Rome and Egypt? Do you have a problem with Christianity? Well just consider the source...which has very little to do with Jesus...and the words attributed to him.

    I really shouldn't do this...but if you want to view something very irreverent...then look on YouTube for the 'South Park - Merry @#$% Christmas'. It's so bad...I won't include a link...

    Thank-you Snowbird. The world is turning upside down...and if we survive...I think things will be 100% better...if we survive. I don't think that our survival is a done-deal. We shouldn't be too smug. I think we are at the center of a universal power struggle. The stakes may be higher than we can possibly imagine.

    I'd love to see a TV series with Ralph Ellis as an airline captain (which he is in real-life)...and Acharya S as the co-pilot...discussing Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology as they fly around the world. They could look down at a certain part of the world...and begin talking about the history and mythology of that region. Acharya S is sort of a female Daniel Jackson (from Stargate).

    May I suggest watching the Ralph Ellis, Acharya S, and David Icke interviews on over and over...until it really sinks in. Then rewatch the Stargate SG1 series on ...rewatch all of Alex Collier's, Bill Cooper's, and Anna Haye's videos on Google and YouTube. Finally...rewatch 'V' (1983 and 2009). Things should start to fall into place. But don't join any stupd cults...or get involved with dangerous hocus-pocus and mumbo-jumbo. You may even wish to keep going to church for the music, architecture, art, fellowship, bingo, food, members of the opposite sex, business contacts, insights of the preacher/rabbi/priest...but don't worship anyone or anything other than the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Holy Spirit. Even Jesus said that the unpardonable sin was the Sin Against the Holy Spirit. I reverence the Teachings of Jesus...regardless of their source. Lucifer/Hathor could have written most of the Bible...for all I know. The Teachings of Jesus could be the greatest hits of ancient wisdom written by Lucifer/Hathor. But I tend to think that a Reptilian Satan made sure that the Teachings of Jesus never got any traction.

    I think that Lucifer/Hathor may be behind a lot of the governmental and religious systems throughout history (under the watchful eyes of Satan/Reptilians)...and that this very human being is alive and well presently...and posting on the internet. I may have to eat my words, and eat humble pie regarding the last sentence...but this presently makes sense to me. Fasten your seatbelts...hang on tight...and don't go me. I think that cool, calm, and rational interdisciplinary thinking is essential to sorting this stuff out. Combine faith and doubt. Do not neglect either.

    Please watch this four part BBC documentary video entitled 'The Century of the Self': It chronicles the effect of Sigmund Freud, Edward Bernays, and others on marketing, mass manipulation, and politics...based upon the theory that the masses are dangerously irrational...and must be manipulated and controlled. This documentary should be viewed before researching the New World Order. Kathleen(in a comment) and Antaletriangle(as a thread which seems to not show up in a search) have previously posted links to this video. I thought it was too important to be buried or ignored. It contains foundational information. This video is too important to be ignored. But once again...if it's not a thread about the latest ufo flap or alien sighting...or something really exotic...there seems to be very little interest. Perhaps this supports one of the basic theories within the video...that just giving the people the facts, or telling them the truth, doesn't work...that they must be manipulated and controlled by philosophies, entertainment, and products which gratify the self...and produce the results desired by the elites. In other words: 'Give 'em what they want. Tell 'em what they want to hear. And lead 'em down the primrose path by the hooks in their noses'. Sheesh! Now I'm starting to sound like one of them!

    vipassana: Thank-you for your link to the other thread. The material posted is very applicable to the subject video on this thread. Compartmentalization seems to be used to limit and control people. Multidisciplinarianism(is that a word?) should be the foundation of education. Everything is related to we need to know everything about everything to know everything about anything. This is Comprehensive Concentration. Did I miss anything?


    Once again, an important non-glamorous and non-sensational topic is attracting N:sleep_1:interest. I think I'm going to try to write the great alien novel...write some silly love songs...and do some negative-karma generating investing. I shall return...sometime before 2012.

    It's hard to be motivated without greed, fear, crisis, etc. I just thought this somewhat dull video contained a huge amount of background information regarding the masses and their rulers. I didn't mean to sound a bit shrill...but I'm very frustrated with the brutality and inhumanity which is seen historically and presently. We don't seem to be learning, or getting closer to getting it right. I don't see the arrival of 2012 as being anything which will magically make us better. Some suggest that there is enslavement and extermination in our future. I don't know. I used to believe that the second coming of Christ would wipe out the bad people and save the select few. I don't believe this at all anymore. It was a sick scenario to begin with. The New Age answers are no doubt intended to be an alternative to churchianity...but I doubt many of the new gurus and teachings. The answers which might save us, and bring us peace, may be very simple and boring. But God knows how many centuries it may take us to recognize and apply these simple and boring solutions?! I see decades, if not centuries, of struggle ahead...if we survive. This is not a popular view. The rulers of us all have huge problems, perplexities, and weaknesses. If I were one of them...I'd probably be doing a worse job. The masses may very well be stupid sheeple...and I am one of them. I simply see Constructive Competition, Positive Response Ability, and Constitutional Responsible Freedom as my answer, at least, to that which ails us. But the acceptance and implementation of these interlocking concepts may never occur to a significant enough degree to get the job done. I'm going to give it a rest for now. I'm sure we'll figure something out...hopefully by 3012!

    Freud was a dickhead...and Oedipus was a mother!

    Please give me your thoughts regarding the following people and videos:

    1. Bill Cooper:
    2. Alex Collier:
    3. Bill Still:

    These three prophets were speaking out in the 1990's. Have they been vindicated or debunked? If they have been more vindicated than debunked...shouldn't they be listened to more attentively than current, unproven prophets or whistleblowers? Have they stood the test of time? The information, principles, and concepts revealed...seem to be at the heart of resolving the human delemma. Please take the time to comment on this thread. It may not be flashy. It is not the latest thing...but should we really focus on the latest thing? I have a hunch that the Old World Disorder Reptilian Theocracy hates all of the above with extreme prejudice. What do you think? My bias is to base Globalism on the U.S. Constitution. This would be the True World Order. How about it Vatican City, City of London, and Washington DC? Let my people go. I'd love to celebrate with all of you when the global exorcism is complete...and the people of the world rule themselves with Constitutional Responsible Freedom. Full disclosure and cooperation in exchange for full immunity? Crime does not pay on judgment day. The universe is watching...

    So...who shot JFK? Are no alien abductions occuring? Are the reptillians and grays the good-guys...who really love us, and are trying to help us? Has the Constitution not been subverted? Is the New World Order going to make us happy and free? Who's your favorite guru?

    How do you identify a truthteller? Can you supply examples? Care to name any?

    Steve A: You are so correct and perceptive. Perhaps there should be a system developed which whistleblowers, prophets, researchers, speculators, etc. could use to inform readers, listeners, and viewers which of these mantles they are wearing...and what their level of certainty any given point in their 'revelations'. They could later edit the level of certainty rating to reflect futher reflection and information. Some wild-eyed, intoxicated, unqualified speculator might hit on a breakthrough concept...and might not realize they had done so. We are all probably part of the problem...and part of the solution. The goal is to responsibly eliminate the weeds without destroying the wheat.

    Josefine: I checked your link regarding Cooper's JFK assassination theory. He didn't recant. Here is another interesting Cooper interview regarding JFK: Also, Cooper believed that malevolent aliens had taken advantage of our obvious weaknesses, and our propensity toward power-worship, corruption, and self-extermination...not that they had caused all of the trouble in the world. In one of his lectures, Cooper indicated that he was questioning his sources and conclusions...which is to his credit. He wasn't just whitewashing his doubts to save face and sell books. I don't know if he was right or wrong...but what he said sure seemed to make sense...and connect lots of dots.

    Perhaps these people should be subjected to interrogations with truth serum, bright lights, and ex-KGB interrogators! Just kidding! NO ONE would dare to step forward! Perhaps this is exactly what the NWO has planned for the free-thinking do-gooders. I met someone (who I prefer not to name, because it was a private conversation) years ago, who said things which lended support to what I read in this section. Namely, that the earth was involved in a universal power struggle...and that they sometimes wished that they hadn't gotten involved in ufo/alien research. Be careful...this is a rough game.

    The fact that Cooper used the term 'hypothesis' is to his credit. Oh...that fundamentalist preachers or the Pope would use 'hypothesis' to preface their pontifications....excathedra or otherwise. I missed the U-Turn! Did someone take down the sign? If the driver portion of the Zapruder Film has been doctored...why is this? What was so incriminating in the original version...that the Zapruder film had to be doctored? Does this not lend support to the 'hypothesis' that the driver was deeply involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy? Why did William Greer step on the brakes...instead of stepping on the he was trained to do? Where does Cooper say that the Illuminati is not deeply involved with interdimensionals and extraterrestrials? Are you taking the position that demonic entities and malevolent aliens have not, and do not, influence or control human beings?

    Josefine: I wonder how much of the alien/ufo phenomenon is staged. I don't mean that nothing is occuring. What I do mean is how much of it is genuine travelers from other solar systems...and how much of it is humans, 'native-aliens', 'genetically manufactured aliens', spirit-beings confined to this earth...or all four? I have wondered if Roswell in 1947 and Muroc in 1954 were products of Project Paperclip? If treaties with aliens were signed by President Eisenhower(I don't know that they actually were)...did we really deal with an earth-based phenomenon...say Gizeh Intelligence? Did we unwittingly turn our government over to the same 'forces' who supported Hitler from the shadows? By the way...does anyone know anything about 'Gizeh Intelligence'? I've learned a bit from the Alex Collier videos, and via Google...but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there. Are they the basis of the Illuminati, Mystery Schools and Secret well as the modern USA UFO phenomenon...which Cooper speaks of? Cooper may have been realizing that this crazy thing was a lot more complicated than he thought. In an Alex Jones interview...Cooper maintained that our ills were homegrown from within the opposed to foreign manipulation. Jones questioned this...and I often do, as well. Oh, what a tangled web. I maintain that a focus upon, and obedience to...the Constitution of the United States of America...will reveal and correct most of the ills which plague us. I have a feeling Bill Cooper would agree with this.

    There has been some input regarding Bill Cooper. But what about Alex Collier and his purported encounters with the Andromedans? Was this a combination of research, channeling, speculation, and imagination. Or did Alex really go aboard Andromedan spaceships? Is this problem here on earth between the Pleiadians(us) and Reptillians(them)...or are there others involved? Would the involvement of the Andromedans violate non-intervention with an emgerging civilization? What do you think?

    What about Bill Still and 'The Money Masters'? Has anyone even watched the 3.5 hour documentary? He seems to be right on the money...pardon the pun. Taking this man seriously in the 90's might have saved us from the current financial 9/11. What do you think?

    Josefine: The following is from Bill Cooper's talk 'The Secret Government':

    '...Another plan is in force. It is the plan to prepare the public for eventual confrontation with an alien race. IT COULD ALSO INTEND TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE IN AN ALIEN RACE THAT DOES NOT EXIST. The public is being bombarded with movies, radio, advertising, and TV programs depicting almost every aspect of the "purported" true nature of the alien presence. This includes the good and bad. Look around and pay attention. SOMEONE IS PLANNING TO MAKE THEIR PRESENCE KNOWN AND THE GOVERNMENT IS PREPARING YOU FOR IT. They do not want any panic. The unprecedented number of sightings worldwide indicates that public exposure is not far off. Never in history have there been so many official acknowledgements.'

    This is a confirmation of Cooper's ambiguity regarding the true source of 'the alien presence'. The more I think about it...the more I think that this presence is from the earth...or within the earth. I think there are others 'out there'...but that the ones we are dealing with or will deal with during this crisis phase of our civilization are either 'native-aliens' or 'aliens' and 'ufo's' created by human beings. Are the inner-earth native-aliens getting ready to come out of the closet, so to speak? Will most of us be exterminated or placed in concentration camps to make us more manageable by the 'aliens'? Do they really want Earth all to themselves...except for some human-slaves, human-food, and human-sacrifices(to Lucifer)? I have a feeling that Cooper was just scratching the surface...and was just describing the tip of the iceberg which is threatening to sink humanity once and for all...

    In light of the the following videos: 1. 2.

    Can someone please direct me to the nearest website where people are actually interested in the subject of this thread? Seriously. I'm afraid the answer is 'no one is interested'. I'm beginning to think we deserve the darn New World Order. Cooper was supposedly frustrated and cranky when people didn't become enthusiastic about the material and concepts he was presenting to them. Alex Collier withdrew in frustration from public appearances. Bill Still largely withdrew from the public, and was frustrated with the Anti U.S. Government people who were using his work. I think Cooper, Collier, and Still were on the right track. I do wonder if Collier actually was on board alien spacecraft...or if he imagined or channeled the encounters? Was Collier actually 'taken' to a hollow inner earth? Even if he went nowhere, the context provides a fascinating backdrop to consider the problems facing Earth and Humankind. I don't think they got everything right...but in principle and concept...they got it right. Does anyone else think so?

    I'm going to try this one last time. Can someone provide insights regarding Alex Collier and Bill Still? There has been some discussion regarding Bill Cooper. But in general, this thread has gotten no traction. I've only started a couple...and I hesitate to start another. I'm not sure where to discuss this sort of thing. Any suggestions?

    This is just a bump. I keep coming back to these three videos. I find them to be fascinating and compelling. I find an interconnectedness between the three videos. Is the basic information presented really foundational? I still have questions regarding the sources of Cooper's and Collier's information...but when one combines the information contained in the videos...the overall view seems to be consistent...and hangs together quite well.

    Howard Hughes inherited the Hughes Tool and Die Company. Some have suggested a connection between this company and the gigantic equipment used to drill the tunnels for the Deep Underground Military Bases. I'm pretty sure this is mentioned in the Dulce Book which I gave a link to in the first post. Perhaps an insiders knowledge of all the alien stuff contributed to Howard's eccentricity and later insanity. Just speculation.

    The recent 'accidental' sleeping pill/contraindicting medication near-death of former astronaut and genetics(alien?) researcher Dr. Claudie Haignere, and a simultaneous lab fire, in Paris, seemed suspicious. Search 'France's First Woman in Space' on this site.

    I'm not a Bible thumper...but the book of Revelation refers to the 'Seven Last Plagues'. Could AIDS be one of them? Revelation also refers to reptillians as being the bad-guys! Hmmm...

    Are there any organizations who exhaustively research the deaths of 'important' people...beginning with the crucifixion of Christ? If there isn't such an organization, there should be. But they would sure have to watch their backsides wouldn't they?! Stay out of space...or the Magicians will get you!

    You just know that there are some very high-placed people who are very, very afraid because of what they know...because of the perils to humanity...and the perils to themselves. This probably includes some of the people we love to hate.

    That monkey in the picture is a reptillian shape-shifter! OMG! It's David Icke!

    I obviously picked something that virtually no one is interested in. It seemed to be conceptually very interesting...but it does require some work to actually read the included material...and then think about it. Is it plausible? If so...why so? If not...why not? What do you think? Do you think? Come on...think! I'm now beginning a search for something sensational...the latest thing...rather than something profound. I was hoping to discuss the possibility that an alien scenario exists which is very similar to the one described in the material I posted. I'm almost positive that it is fictional. Yet I think we should take the principles and concepts very, very seriously. Any takers? The water's warm. Come-on in!

    Einstein was certain regarding infinite human stupidity...but was uncertain regarding an infinite universe. Heisenberg was uncertain, as well. But at least he had principles!

    Thank-you for your consideration. I guess I place the material I posted in the same general category as the Alex Collier 'testimony'. It may be exactly as represented...or it may be a composite constructed from a variety of sources, public and confidential...and placed in the context of 'alien advice'. There is just something special about imagining that you are in a spaceship...looking down at Earth...and listening to a benevolent alien tell you what you need to know to solve the world's problems. In fact, whether any of the above is true or might be a good mental imagine being the alien who is giving the earthling advice to help them save their planet. I'm simply trying to figure out what's wrong...and how to fix it. I don't expect to get too far...but I'd like to try to connect a couple of dots. This might help someone else connect even more dots. Then, one of these centuries, we might actually get it right!

    For anyone who missed this might find it interesting.

    Sorry about your friend Ammit. Researchers and free-thinkers should be careful. Of course...even if no one is out to get you...each incarnation is still dangerous and short. No one should terminate the life of another human matter what kind of a threat they are perceived to be. If someone is supposedly a problem...then debate them, reason with them, etc...but don't hurt or kill them. I'm talking to any bad-guys who might be monitoring this site...of course.

    14 Chakras: The exaltation of humanity needs to replace the exaltation of self. This is a subtle and somewhat complex subject to truly sort out...but it is central. I'm still not sold on the Archangel Michael. Shouldn't we simply do our best to sort things out...and let the unseen beings fight it out on their level of existence...and let them decide when and where to assist us...if we need assistance. I'm just paranoid regarding malevolents who masquerade as benevolents.

    Do you prefer this 'alien advice'...or that of SaLuSa? What are the fundamental editorial differences? Is either source really alien?

    Thank-you eleni. I respect your observations and information.

    Here are some music videos I can't stop watching. They mostly relate to topics within this forum. I hope you like at least one or two of them.
    3. - Sexy Cyborg!
    4. - Crazy French Low Level Flying

    Here is a two episode video series(6 parts in each episode) on NASA: The footage and interviews in this documentary are amazing! This is one worth watching. I just hope that the secret and public space programs can become completely public and transparent...soon.

    The Right Stuff = Male...Mormon or Mason. All Others Need Not Apply. Of course if you were could be part of the Secret Space Program...and go to Mars. Or so 'they' say. If I sound bitter...I'm just very tired of very little making sense...and being an outsider useless feeder...taking up space...and being a part of an undesirable excess population. I feel so loved.

    This is a thread devoted to discussing the United Nations Charter. Here is a link to the U.N. Charter:

    Take a look at it...and tell me what you think...from the perspective of the country you live in. Is this a good is...or does it need to be rewritten? My bias is in the direction of globalism based on the U.S. Constitution. Are the U.N. Charter and the U.S. Constitution compatible and complementary...or are they at war with each other? I have vowed to attempt to rewrite the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights at the heart of the new document. Is this a good idea...or a stupid idea? Has this already been done? Would the patriot movement and people like Ron Paul support the U.N. if such a new charter replaced the existing document? What would Bill Cooper, Alex Collier, Alex Jones, et al say? What would You say? I would like to see global harmony and cooperation...but I do not want peace at any price. I oppose any hint of exploitation, enslavement, extermination, or tyranny. Is there an alien connection to the United Nations? Who really tells the U.N. what to do? How powerful is the U.N.? How does the U.N. relate to the Vatican, the City of London, and Washington D.C.?

    Please consider this thread regarding dictatorial theistic rule vs namaste constitutional responsible freedom. This thread undoubtedly steps on toes. It stepped on my toes...and I'm the one who is responsible for it.

    Our Planet is How We Plan It. It's Your World. Does 'Our' and 'Your' Include Greys, Reptilians, Humans...and Any Other Alien Races?

    Does a rival United Nations need to be established? What if we started a 'Shadow United Nations'(S.U.N.)? Could this be an 'Electronic United Nations'? Do we need buildings? Could we establish the S.U.N. in the center of the solar system? Isn't Avalon sort of an electronic U.N.? Avalon is a moon...right? Hell...the Dudes on Pluto could even participate. Membership in the S.U.N. might be granted after taking and passing an online class in international and intergalactic affairs...and paying a reasonable yearly fee to fund operations. Membership would be unlimited. Every being...human and the entire solar system...could be a member. Who knows what that could lead to? Peace and Happiness? Lucifer...even you could be a member...but you couldn't be the S.U.N. GOD. Can someone say 'AMEN RA'?

    A S.U.N. Resolution passed by a billion beings throughout the solar system would carry quite a bit of clout...I would think. I would like to visit Mars...but not as a slave or as an appetizer. I would consider working there for a while...if the price was right...and if my safety was absolutely guaranteed. I hear there's lots of work on Europa...or beneath Europa...I should say.

    That sounds like Omnipotent Highness KRLLL....from the 50's. Were reports of KRLLL's death greatly exaggerated? Did KRLLL reincarnate into a human or hybrid body? Hmmmm. In any case...if the United Nations, the Vatican, the City of London, and Washington D.C. were purified and reformed...with absolutely no malevolent alien or malevolent human control...we would be 95% of the way to Nirvana. But don't hold your breath.

    Is there merit to the idea of placing the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights at the center of a rewritten U.N. Charter...with all of the countries of Earth...and all of the planets and moons of the Solar System...treated as States? Various Alien Nations could participate...but they could not dictate. A President would simply be a spokesperson or PR person for the decisions of the General Assembly. Most of the communications and deliberations would be electronic...with actual meetings at U.N. Headquarters being mostly symbolic and ceremonial. Could this arrangement be considered to be the preferred alternative to a theocracy (a Universal Church)? Would this arrangement constitute a desirable non-theocratic union of politics and religion? Isn't religion really politics...and politics really religion? Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom would be the absolute standard and modus operandi of a New Universal Order.

    Have I completely lost my mind...or is this an ultra-simple solution to the problems which plague this solar system (and possibly the universe)? I am basing all of this on an unproven assumption that there is life throughout the Solar System...including, but not limited to, Human, Grey, and Reptilian life...and that the Grey and Reptilian life is not simply a non-physical demonic phenomenon. Obviously...there would have to be safeguards which would prevent a dictatorial take-over. All groups would need to be protected from themselves (competing internal factions) and the other groups. Mutually beneficial interplanetary and interracial interaction would be the goal.

    The concept is simple...but undoubtedly the details and implementation would be very, very complex. I'm guessing that powerful forces outside of this Solar System would have to agree to allow this to occur. I'm also sensing that some of the agreement...if it was granted...would be very grudging...with the view that it would never work...and that they would ultimately theocratically rule Earth eventually anyway. Who knows...this could be a new development in a very dictatorial, rigid, and violent universe. It could be Morning in the Universe.

    Replace the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution...OR...Get the U.S. out of the U.N...AND...Get the U.N. out of the U.S.

    Give me liberty...or give me death. Better dead than rep. No offense intended toward the reptilians. That was just a play on words from a cold war slogan. My intention is to not be dictatorially ruled by anyone...reptilian, human, grey...or otherwise.

    'Martian Reptilian Representative Lord Draco...Your Time Has Expired.'

    'Omnipotent Highness KRLLL...You Have Five Minutes.'

    'Lucifer...the Power of Christ Compels You to Sit Down and Shut Up!' 'Security!!!' 'Moziah!!!'

    We'd have to do something about those titles!

    I'm leaning toward taking the U.S. Constitution and Bill of is...and simply adding the various countries, planets, and additional states. This is where things would get tricky and sticky. I think the principles and concepts are sound...but the implementation would be very difficult...especially regarding the determination of how many senators and congressbeings each region would receive. How would one properly balance something like that the Pluto Dudes wouldn't get left out in the cold?!

    What would we do about the illegal grey and reptilian alien immigration problem in the western United States?

    It would be fun to do something like this on a trial basis...with no authority whatsoever. You know...just set it up...and go through the motions...for at least a couple of work out the bugs (and the insectoids). This whole thing is just a brainstorm. But if this wouldn't should a solar system be properly run? Any ideas? A Theocracy...with Lord Draco, Omnipotent Highness KRLLL, and the Holy a Cosmic Trilateral Commission...a Council on Alien Relations...a Holy Trinity with Absolute Power in a Universal Church? Don't we have that right now? Next idea? Is there anyone else out there? What about you...Lucifer? You feel left out? I thought that you were either Lord Draco or Omnipotent Highness KRLLL? Was I mistaken?

    Again...none of this implies nationalism, protectionism, or U.S. uber(A.)lles. A system of orderly decentralized decision making...with a significant history and track the focus.

    Does anyone want to be a founding member of a shadow United Nations...based on the U.S. Constitution...and applied to the entire Solar System...conducted completely in cyberspace?

    OK...I'm probably going to spend more time on this thread: I slightly streamlined and modified the U.S. Constitution...and I am calling it I don't intend to mess with the U.N. Charter at this point. The idea is to have something called 'The United States of the Solar System' which could be based at the United Nations Headquarters...but don't hold your breath! See you on the other thread!

    What do you think about the U.N. Charter? Muammar Gaddafi doesn't like it! Thank-you for your response lucrum. A news event will be spun by the spinners any which way they choose. Of course I know about Gaddafi's past and his reputation...but I liked a lot of what he had to say. How do you think Muammar would respond to a proposal to replace the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution? Would he consider this to be American Imperialism? Would making this change be in the best interests of most of the people of the world? Would this involve a loss of power to the current Powers That Be?

    Does anyone have an idea of what an ideal U.N. Charter would look like? I'm trying to be pragmatic suggesting something which has been in use for centuries...and which, if followed, actually works quite well.

    What do you think about the 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights' penned by Eleanor Roosevelt...and adopted by the United Nations in 1948? Should it supercede the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights? Should it be included in the United States of the Solar System? I agree with a lot of it...but it seems to go too far...and is somewhat socialistic in nature. I have the same goals, pretty much...but I envision a different route to achieving these goals. This document should not supercede the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and should not be included in the United States of the Solar System. I'm willing to keep thinking about this...and change my mind if a brutal gang of facts mugs me on some dark philosophical or political alley! Here is a condensed version I made for easy reading:


    Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

    Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

    Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

    Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

    Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

    Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

    Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

    Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

    Article 2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

    Article 3. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

    Article 4. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

    Article 5. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

    Article 6. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

    Article 7. All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

    Article 8. Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

    Article 9. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

    Article 10. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

    Article 11. (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

    Article 12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

    Article 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

    Article 14. (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

    Article 15. (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

    Article 16. (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
    (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses. (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

    Article 17. (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

    Article 18. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

    Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

    Article 20. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

    Article 21. (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives. (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

    Article 22. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

    Article 23. (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

    Article 24. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

    Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
    (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

    Article 26. (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace. (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

    Article 27. (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits. (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

    Article 28. Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

    Article 29. (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

    Article 30. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

    Here is a documentary on astronauts and the space program. Enjoy.

    This one is worth watching. Listen (and read) very the words at the beginning of the documentary. Are they trying to tell us something?

    Please watch this documentary regarding TWA 800: Should all of the sad and violent episodes in the last couple of hundred years be reexamined in exhaustive and excruciating detail? Is there a common thread?

    Thank-you conjuredUp. Your post shocked me. I wasn't expecting a post like that.

    The military ship theory does seem strange. I would think that a small, very fast speedboat would make more sense...if someone did this deliberately. And I have a hard time believing that the military would mistakenly fire missiles in established airline airspace. Also...if this was to be a false-flag operation...there would be many other less visible ways to pull it off. A submerged-sub launched missile would seem to be more likely...but who knows? The missile theory makes more sense to me than the fueltank theory. But I'm not a pro. I just thought the video was fascinating. At the time...I thought they took forever to recover the wreckage. The question is...who really did it...and why was there a cover-up? There have been several bizzare assassinations and disasters...and seeming cover-ups...over the last several decades. What is so horrible and damning...that requires these cover-ups? I tend to think that the agencies involved in all of this are in a tight spot. They're damned if they tell the truth...and they're damned if they lie. How can the real truth be told without destroying the country? This goes for 9/11 as well. I hope that we can progress as a the point that complete honesty is demanded...and to the point where the public reaction is always measured and rational. Hope springs eternal.

    This video is really different. Trailer: 'Little Dieter Needs to Fly' features a German man who survived dozens of brushes with death...and unbelievable hardship...during the Vietnam War(and as a youth in Germany during WWII). I found it very moving. We really need to completely eliminate all war:

    Im going to try this more time. Could taking a close look at war really be an integral part of spiritual growth and development? Is facing reality a necessary prerequisite for ascension? Any ideas or observations?

    I found a nasty comment under this video (which doesn't sound human, to me).

    "bwahahaha your powerless against us so talk all the XXXX you can now online but in person id summon demons to possess you and keep you locked in a crippling fear as i beat the XXXX out of you.even without them my angelic supernatural strength will overwhelm you.theres nothing you could do to hurt me because i am all powerful and all knowing pathetic waist of breath. Look at your world god should of never created you weak foolish beings your easily manipulated!you bring hell on yourselves."

    Can't we just all get along?? Why is this so hard?? I swear that I just want things to work out well for all-concerned. I'll continue to look at a lot of the controversial and upsetting stuff -- and then just move-on. I do NOT wish to make a big-deal out of this madness. I'm NOT trying to stir things up -- and I do NOT work for anyone. BTW -- I'm NOT looking for a job -- although I'd still like to be a Philosopher-Observer in a future life. Taking-over and ruling is SO overrated. Trust me. How do I know?? You don't wanna know...
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    magamud wrote:I tend to think that our world is but a small amount of the real world. Much like the dark matter that surrounds our physics. I tend to think that what is below is so above so intrinsically that nothing is not mirrored in equal energy. That is we are part of another whole all together. This points to what Jesus was saying about knowing how many hairs are on your head. This is the price we have to pay to have a body. So we are in process of understanding consciousness in relation to having flesh and blood. This is the meaning of the harvest. And how are caretaker jesus and the all father work with us. Once we are viscerally in this state of awareness government or the social structure becomes very apparent. The most important part is being in the grace of God.

    Now if you want to talk about mans relations during this growing process I think the living document of the Constitution is Titis. The Federalist papers fantastic. Now even with this insightful insight to man living in liberty can be usurped by still enslaving man. This might be why man oppressed man so bad to ensure rule by law. A tale of our species no? What we are told to stay away from we magnetize too. So, do I think our species can go through a harvest without so much war and pestilence. Yes, as there are different roads to the final road. Why did we choose this road? Probably because were all tough SOB's...
    As negative and blasphemous as it sounds -- my starting-point presently is that Everything is a Mess, and Everyone is Bad (including the gods and goddesses). From that point, I can contemplate various definitions and levels of "Mess" and "Bad". I suspect that even the Jesus-Story is not neat and clean. I'll just continue modeling and speculating -- even if the excrement really contacts the air-conditioning system. I have no personal-life or business-prospects (of any significance) so I don't have a lot to lose. I've already burned most of my bridges -- and I'm somewhat ignorant and insane -- so that frees me up to be a free-thinker -- and if I remain mostly silent, I might even remain alive...

    What Would Michael Do??

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon May 20, 2013 8:03 pm

    What would my little battle be like if I drove a Porsche Turbo around Redmond, Washington (while listening to Sherry Shriner) -- and hung-out with the rich and powerful in Medina?? Seriously. I used to spend quite a bit of quality time with someone who lived in Medina. They were afraid of aliens!! How pliable am I?? Really. Everyone has their price -- Right??!! I recently attended a social event at a Pacific Northwest Mansion -- dressed in a suit -- fitting-in with a rather sophisticated crowd. Living among the so called Elite might be somewhat intoxicating. I think I might've just experienced the Eureka Phenomenon!! BTW -- they have some really cool speed-limit signs in Redmond!! OMG!! A Big, Black Cadillac SUV just pulled-up next to me (T-Bone Style)!! OMG!! The Driver Just Shape-Shifted Into David Icke!!! It's been parked next to me for half an hour now!!! There was a Black SUV parked across the street from my house a couple of nights ago. I am SO screwed!!! He finally left (after shape-shifting into Alex Jones)!!! I'm a bit different!! What Would Saint Germain Say?? I think my goal is neutrality and objectivity in everything. I like the idea of being a mostly silent insider-observer who is always 'there' -- yet never really a part of things -- if you know what I mean. I don't wish to be a Henry Kissinger or an Alex Jones -- if you know what I mean. I'm not really sure who or what I wish to be. Knowing the whole-story might help me decide where I might best be of service -- if you know what I mean. I think the Slopes are VERY slippery -- and the Roads to Hell are very wide -- if you know what I mean. Remember -- I am presently reposting and editing old-posts -- while adding some new and exciting content to them! BTW -- I think someone slashed one of the tires on my car -- and I had a nearly catastrophic flat-tire on a major highway in the middle of nowhere. I know I'm paranoid -- yet it sometimes seems as if "they" really are out to "get" me. The horror.

    I just watched this Bilderberg video. What particularly interested me were the interviews. These included several Bilderberg insiders. There was almost no ranting and raving in this video. I liked that. It seemed balanced. What is the distinction between privacy and secrecy? We seem to reverence our right to privacy...yet despise the secrecy of the Bilderbergers. If these people discuss and advise in private...I see no problem. If they conspire, dictate, and threaten...I see a huge problem. Corruption is the enemy...not privacy. I often think that placing oneself in the shoes of Bilderberg members(especially the permanent members) is a good mental exercise. I'd love to see the U.S. Constitution become the cornerstone of a world government. Perhaps, at some point, the U.N. could make such a transition. Which country might object the most vigorously...and why? I keep thinking that this is a group of people who are not really in control of everything. In a way...I wish there was a group of well intentioned people, who were not manipulated by demonic forces of any kind, who privately, carefully, and reverently discussed the future of humanity...and had the ability to genuinely create a better world without tyranny. I see even the Bilderberg Group as a somewhat fearful gathering of powerful people who answer to an even more powerful absolutely hidden group of humans and non-humans. This hypothetical group would NOT be meeting at resorts and playing golf. I envision this group traveling to their meetings on submarines, underground leviton trains, and even anti-gravity craft. Likely meeting places might be deep underground military bases on earth...or even on the dark side of the moon. I'd like to say more...but a shape-shifting Delta Force soldier just materialized in my office...and is telepathically communicating that he's here to help me...

    I'm commenting to keep this thread from being buried prematurely. I would love to see the common man see eye to eye with the elites. This would obviously require changes on both sides. The more we understand about who these people really are...and what they actually discuss...the less us vs them mentality will be exhibited by either side. More people may need to read the CFR journal 'Foreign Affairs' so as to be able to better converse with the so called elites. I wish no ills upon the elites. I simply wish to bring them on board a populist movement toward a global government which is of the people, by the people, and for the people. Jim Tucker speaks of asking Henry Kissenger a question...and hearing him begin to hastily reply in a smooth non-Germanic voice...before reverting to his normal gruff Germanic voice! Is there such a thing as vocal shape-shifting?! I experienced this sort of thing with a televangelist who I unintentionally irritated! Hmmmm...

    I had a renewed conviction that We the People of Earth all need to become Bilderbergers. We need to think on that level. We the People of Earth need to become the New Elites in a Brave New Universe. This may be the key to a lot of things. Avalon should be sort of a Solar System United Nations. How do we really know who is observing or participating on this site?

    eleni...your experiences and stories are amazing. I'm a bit confused regarding the Zionist faction (American) in relation to Aldebaran. I'm using my very faulty memory. Somehow...all of this links together...possibly in a D.U.M.B. right here in the good 'ol U.S.A. Who knows...the ultimate ET authorities may pit faction against faction...and sit back and laugh...if they laugh.

    Perhaps when people have been 'above it all' for too long...they get cold, hard, efficient, machine-like...and possibly perfectly possessed...whether they know it or not. I just wish there were a way to make them more like us...and to make us more like them. A properly operating constitutional representative republic would probably accomplish this. Unfortunately...the 'gods' in cahoots with the 'elites' seem to circumvent attempts at proper self-government...and give it a bad name. The cold, hard, and corrupt ruling the apathetic, ignorant, and reactionary is a very unhealthy and dangerous situation indeed. I'm hoping that Avalon, and the internet in general, will help the general public to wake-up and get with it. I'm also hoping that elites will post on sites such as Avalon. The video indicated that the elites find internet posts about them to be interesting and amusing. Perhaps some sort of anonymous back-channel internet communication can be established...wherein the elites and peons unite to save the world! Hope springs eternal.

    I seem to withdraw from people more and more as I spend more and more time on Avalon and other sites! I'm starting to feel mid-way between the elites and the peons...even though I'm still a peon...and don't want to be an elite! Come to think of it...I don't want to be a peon either! Sometimes I feel like I'd just like to travel through space on a UFO with a crew of benevolent Humans and ET's. I like my little dreamworld! Everyone is so nice!

    You know...if we were able to fire all of the elites...and exorcise all of the malevolent entities from this Solar System...we would still face such a huge mountain of problems...that most of us wouldn't want to touch with a ten-foot pole. We'd rather let someone else deal with it. It's a lot easier to delegate, blame...and look for a savior. Herein lies the problem.

    I listened to a Coast to Coast program with George Noory interviewing Dr. Robert Temple regarding the Dogon Tribe and Extraterrestrials from Sirius. If you haven't been exposed to this sort of thing will floor you. I can hardly type...I am so amazed. My crazy and disjointed theories are beginning to make sense...and I wish that they didn't. Fasten your seatbelts. Siriusly. Here is another video series on the Dogons. Do you think that North Africa(including Egypt) is the key part of the puzzle? I'm beginning to wonder. I'm just a wanderer...and not a seasoned guide. I'm seeking information and advice on this thread. I have been experiencing an incredible feeling of weight...sort of like I view these videos. Why is this? I am including the next two video clips because of Leo Zagami very strangely proclaiming that 'God is an alien from Sirius...the Prince of Sirius.' You people probably think I'm this point. Well...I think I'm crazy too!

    Does the following video clip depict an actual underground stargate temple from which Lucifer rules Earth? Care to comment Lucifer? Does the following video clip reveal the thoughts and words of Lucifer? Is Leo possessed by Lucifer during this clip...or could Leo be relating information obtained from a variety of sources? Listen carefully to his words...and imagine them being spoken by the androgynous being in the previous Stargate video clip. Mute the sound in the Stargate clip...and listen to the Zagami clip while watching the Stargate clip. Interesting...isn't it? Am I making a valid connection? Who knows? The shadow(government) knows...and so does Lucifer. Right Lucifer? Do you live in a Deep Underground Military Base in North Africa, the Western United States, Italy, or the Dark Side of the Moon? You should really arrange for the whole truth to be revealed...appear on '60 Minutes'...transfer power to the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...send the reinforcements back to Draco, Orion, and Nibiru...and then retire to a place where you are safe...and where you can regain your mental health. Is 'not guilty by reason of insanity' a valid defense in your case? I don't know. I suspect that everyone who tries to be God...goes insane...without exception. You could be an advisor to the reorganized United Nations of the Solar System...but never a dictator. I'm Sirius. Let's get this over with...Lucifer. Does all of the above somehow fit in with the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark?' What did Steven Speilberg know...and when did he know it?

    There are things I would love to talk about...but I feel like the frustrated housewife who is trying to talk to her husband...while he has his head buried in the newspaper...and who only mumbles a couple of 'yes dear.' I really don't know where to turn at this point. Thinking outside of the box is giving me a headache.:wall: What's the point?

    Thank-you so much for your responses. I have listened to Credo Mutwa previously...but I will listen again today. I was very impressed. I think that things may be crazy for a few years...and then they will settle down. We will always have problems and trouble...but I think that a better world will emerge. But we may have to wait for our next lifetime to enjoy it! I don't see heaven, hell, nirvana, paradise, etc. in our future. I guess I'm envisioning making purgatory a better place! I'm trying to be optimistic and realistic at the same time.

    The point of my rambling is that all of the above information...even if only 10% of it is a lot to digest...and may cause indigestion in the general public(of which I am one). The truth is emerging...but it's probably going to be a rough delivery...and a cesarean section may be necessary! We should have taken that lamaze class!

    I agree. I fear that some type of general public stampede is very likely. All of this is a perfect storm in the making. This will place law enforcement and the military in a very hard spot. If basically good people go nuts...what do you do? This forum is an example of the way a paradigm shift should an evolutionary...rather than a revolutionary...manner. I haven't listened to Alex Jones for at least a month...because I don't want to program myself with anger...and with an us vs them mentality. I keep saying it over and over...get informed without getting mad. We the People of Earth need to become the New Elites...but we can't do this if we are running in the streets with torches and pitchforks.:lightsabre::trumpet::tongue2:

    Who is the world's most knowledgeable authority on everything Sirius? I'm currently thinking that we are in Sirius trouble. Suddenly...everything seems to center around Sirius and the Sirians. I know very little about the subject...but at this point...I want to know everything...Siriusly.

    Lucifer...are you from Sirius? Have you considered retiring? Can't we just skip all of the eschatological cr@p? Just leave us to our own devices. We will probably continue to make huge mistakes...and we might even exterminate ourselves...but we need to be free. You need to be free as well. It's a win-win proposition. Tempted?

    Regarding your caste...about why I keep making comments to Lucifer...this is an attempt to deal with a subject which very few people deal with in a personal and concrete manner. Many people speak of Satan...or Luciferian this and that...or bloody Satanic rituals...or exorcisms...but few consider Lucifer to be an actual being who lives on or close to Earth...and who may be running (and ruining?) the show. I suppose that it's a literary device to make a point. I doubt that Lucifer monitors Avalon...but one never knows. I don't respect or disrespect this being. Does Lucifer wear Prada? I think that Lucifer is an extremely powerful being who has very low self-esteem and huge psychological and spiritual issues. I won't bow down and worship this being...or kiss his or her @ss or tail. I consider this being to be my equal...not superior...not inferior. I am not really concerned about being safe. We are so $ this point...that I simply want to help to make things better. If the $hi+ really hits the fan...there will be no place to hide...not even in the DUMBs.

    Is Sirius the primary source of reptilians and greys who are in this solar system? Is Aldebaran the primary source of humans who are in this solar system? Did an ancient human/reptilian/grey war in or about Orion move to this solar system? Did War in Heaven become Hell on Earth? Are we involved in the tail-end of an ancient human/reptilian/grey conflict? Can there be a happy ending for all of us? Can't we all just get along?

    I am NOT fatalistic regarding eschatology. I do not consider the book of Revelation to be a history of the future. It could be a script...or it could reflect historical end-times for other civilizations...but this does NOT have to be our fate. Hope springs eternal. Here is another piece of the puzzle: - Atenism, The Dog Star, Fallout, and The Birds of Paradise (HD)

    Thank-you Grazzab. I'm just trying to get at who is really running the show in this solar system. I'm not a top level Mason, Satanist, or Vatican Exorcist...and I don't do blood I'm not going to be talking directly to the God of This World anytime soon. There are two opposite errors. One is to disbelieve that there is a being such as Lucifer, Caligastia, Satan, etc. The second is to cower before, respect, venerate, worship, etc...such a being. I'm trying to pursue a middle road here...which probably seems like insanity to many people. It's both to make a point...and to possibly influence such a being to do the right thing...if that is even possible. I just think that universal history is an incredible mess...and that countless beings throughout the universe...are trying to clean up this mess. I'm not into war, vengence, retribution, bottomless pits, eternal damnation, annihilation, etc. I just want the bs, death, suffering, corruption, etc. to STOP.

    I'm feeling really close to the truth...yet really far away. I'm thinking that Sirius is at the center of everything...yet I'm not sure exactly how.

    Could it be that the God of This World is a Draconian-possessed androgynous black human alien from Sirius who heads Giza Intelligence, the Secret Space Program, and the Deep Underground Military Bases...and who is the real Black Pope? Could the Ark of the Covenant be the UFO which brought us here from Sirius along with technology obtained from Draconian-demons in exchange for allowing the Draconians to possess the elite-humans? Is this solar system really part of the Siran solar system? Is our sun really Sirius C? Is the ancient depiction of three suns really Sirius A, Sirius B, and Sirius C? Are the tall greys from Sirius, really just human beings? Did we all come from Sirius? Is there a stargate between this solar system and Sirius? Is all of the cr@p we have been in for millions of years really a Sirian civil war? Are we all different factions of Sirians? Would my pet project of The United States of the Solar System really have to apply to Sirius as well? Is Sirius the All Seeing Eye at the top of the pyramid? Is Sunday really Sun God Day? Is this sun really Sirius? Is the Roman Catholic Church all about Sirius? Are the Masons all about Sirius? Are the occultists all about Sirius? Is the layout of Washington D.C. all about Sirius? Is the Sirian Theocratic System really the Universal Church aka The Holy Roman Empire aka the New World Order?

    If you ever feel overwhelmed with the gravity of some of the threads...and life seems pointless...just watch this 8 part video...and you'll get 'The Point'. An animated story of an unusual kingdom in which everything and everybody is pointed - except for a young boy named Oblio(provided by Mike Lookinland, an actor best known as young Bobby Brady on the television series The Brady Bunch). Despite his round head, Oblio has many friends. But an evil count, jealous that Oblio is more popular than his own son, says that without a pointed head, Oblio is an outlaw. Along with his faithful dog Arrow, Oblio is exiled to the Pointless Forest. There, he has many fantastic experiences (including encounters with a 3-headed man, giant bees, a tree in the leaf-selling business, and a good-humored old rock). From his adventures, Oblio learns that it is not at all necessary to be pointed to have a point in life. Music composed and performed by Harry Nilsson ("Me and My Arrow"), who also wrote the story. Ringo Starr narrates.

    The following link is to a site devoted to a post mortem of the forced demise of Washington Mutual: Maybe it's good to take a 'break' from all of the esoteric and sensational topics...and simply begin to look at the details of the Financial 9/11 most of us have been subjected to. 9/11/2001 seems to keep being swept under the rug...and I suspect that the Financial 9/11 will also be swept under the rug. However...we should not be ignorant of the true facts of each event. The following is the short version from the linked site which details what happened behind the scenes, and reveals the how and why of this robbery that hides behind the word 'seizure':

    The history of the seizure of Washington Mutual is a long and complex story that appears to have started in April of 2008, when WMI/WAMU bank found the need to raise capital due to bad loans. JPMorgan made an offer, at that time, to buy Washington Mutual for $8 per share (1.7 Billion shares ourstanding equals $13.6 Billion). JPMorgan wanted to expand their banking operations to the west coast. This offer was rebuffed by Washington Mutual as being too low, and instead WAMU got the funds it needed through private equity. TPG and several associates pumped about 7 billion dollars into Washington Mutual.

    Many banks were coming under fire from short selling in the summer of 2008, and 19 banks were put on a list not to be shorted in July 2008. Washington Mutual asked to be put on that list and was refused. The American Bankers association also complained that more banks needed to be put on the “no short” list, as they feared banks not on the list would become targets. Paulson later admonished Washington Mutual executives that they should have sold to JPMorgan and that things would get a lot worse for them. One wonders if this was a prediction or a threat, given the things that happened to Washington Mutual within a few months.

    In September, many banks and other financial institutions began to have financial difficulties. Several had failed, and several had been saved in late September. (Later the determination of who would be saved became even more unfair as the government sunk $300 billion into Bank of America ) Washington Mutual was in the news often, after the failure of Lehman Brothers--reporters shifted gears to put the focus on Washington Mutual, claiming the bank was in serious trouble, and later reporting that the FDIC had announced WAMU had to sell itself. One CNBC account showed a long line of depositors at a bank, claiming it was Washington Mutual. By the time they corrected their error, one commercial later, the damage had been done. In the next 10 days, 16.7 billion dollars was withdrawn from Washington Mutual accounts.

    The OTS website press release reported that most of the money withdrawn was from accounts that were over the $100,000 FDIC insurance threshold. If this is true (and why would one doubt the OTS who had a birds eye view of what was happening) then the bank run would seem to be a self limiting event. Regardless, Washington Mutual came under fire from the OTS, after pressure from the FDIC and was seized and sold within a matter of hours. News later surfaced that the FDIC and JPMorgan had been in discussions about the seizure/sale for 3 weeks.

    Although is was never suggested that Washington Mutual was undercapitalized (in fact their capitalization ratio was 8.4% -- well above what was required), the OTS seized Washington Mutual on the basis that liquidity had become a problem and it contended Washington Mutual was operating in an unsafe and unsound condition. The OTS has never published any specific information on that, and indeed evidence filed in the Chapter 11 bankruptcy shows that not only did Washington Mutual have 4.4 Billion dollars in cash, it also had access to borrow 50 Billion dollars from a secondary window at the Federal Reserve in San Francisco. The Landefeld Amendment appears to demonstrate that indeed liquidity was not an issue at all. The question that remains in shareholders minds today is why was a bank that was liquid and well capitalized seized?

    The OTS ordered the bank to sell itself, but while Washington Mutual was trying to sell itself, the 700 Billion dollar bailout was pending, and banks were hesitant to make a bid, given that unknown. Additionally, the FDIC was going behind Washington Mutuals back and trying to solicit bids for the bank, offering those banks a better deal than Washington Mutual could. Two factors were working against Washington Mutual in the sale. The pending bailout, and the FDIC soliciting bids. The FDIC had apparently already made up its mind that it was going to auction off Washington Mutual, apparently ignoring Washington Mutuals ability to borrow $50 Billion in cash from the Federal Reserve Window in San Francisco, and the 4.4 billion. (Incidentally 3 days later TARP was passed, and the "struggling" WAMU's picture would have been very different.)

    The OTS planned to seize the bank on Friday, Sep 26, 2008 , but the seizure was stepped up to Thursday, due to a media leak. The leak was apparently a professor Roy Smith, with no apparent connections to the “secret auction” being arranged other than the fact that he previously worked for Goldman Sachs. The sale of Washington Mutual to JPMorgan was arranged with lightning speed. Within a few hours the bank belonged to JPMorgan for the paltry sum of 1.9 Billion dollars.

    It is interesting to note that the attachment, 3.1a , which purportedly contains a list of what was purchased cannot be located. JPMorgan indicates in recent court filings (Objection to the March 31,2009 deadline for claims) they are having difficulty reviewing the assets, and disentangeling accounts. Without the attachment 3.1a listing the conditions of purchase, how can anyone judge in restrospect what was sold. There is no document that indicates what assets JPMorgan purchased other than the bank available in the public domain.

    What happened to Washington Mutual is a travesty. Washington Mutual was apparently singled out for seizure due to the FDIC fear that it would fail. Washington Mutual never did fail. It was seized solely due to fear on the part of the FDIC, and we have seen since that the FDIC was not aware of the condition of the bank. It did not know about the 4.4 billion dollars WAMU had, nor did it know about the 50 billion dollars WAMU had access to through the Federal Reserve secondary window.

    Now, shareholders and bondholders have been nearly wiped out—due to the hair trigger of the FDIC, who pressured the OTS into wrongfully and inappropriately seizing the bank. It should be noted that WMI has received absolutely no compensation for their $307 Billion dollar bank, and the bondholders, and shareholders will get little to no compensation either.

    WMI, the parent company was forced into Chapter11 bankruptcy, and has been fighting for the assets which it rightfully owns ever since. Letters to Congress and other government officials (President, FDIC, OTS,FBI and SEC) have gone unanswered. An investigation was started almost immediately, but the results are yet unknown to the public. Washington Mutual has been ignored in the media, perhaps due to an unofficial “gag order”.

    Most people agree that what happened to Washington Mutual was wrong, and an action that was totally bungled by the OTS and the FDIC. The shareholders are paying dearly for their incompetence. Shareholders are seeking redress and protection from losing their stock due to re-organization. An equity committee has been denied as shareholders, and indeed Washington Mutual (WMI) do not know what their assets are due to stonewalling by JPMorgan and the FDIC. Shareholders do not have the opportunity to protect their interests, as an equity committee cannot be granted unless they can show the bank is solvent. The total worth of WMI is still unknown.

    Shareholders are still in shock…one could understand if this happened in Russia or China, but for this to happen in the United States of America speaks poorly of our system of justice. Is justice only for the people who can afford to buy it, or who have the proper “connections”? Apparently so….this “justice” has served JPMorgan handsomely, who has profited significantly in a mere 3 months, from the seizure and firesale of Washington Mutual.

    Shareholders are outraged, and continue in their struggle to be heard by the Congress, the court, the President, and the media. The fact that something like this could happen in the United States of America is disgraceful.

    The plot thickens:

    ANDERSON ISLAND, Wash., May 26 /PRNewswire/ -- The following is being issued on behalf of, Concerned Shareholders of Washington Mutual Inc. -- Washington Mutual Inc. shareholders are increasingly alarmed by the actions of federal regulators in recent months. They feel the regulators are setting dangerous precedents that will adversely affect the banking sector in the foreseeable future. They feel these actions do not just affect individual shareholders, but the financial sector in general.

    The FDIC's fire-sale of Washington Mutual Inc.'s (OTCBulletinBoard: WAMUQ) (PinkSheets: WAHUQ) (PinkSheets: WAMPQ) (PinkSheets: WAMKQ) assets to JPMorgan changed the game for potential buyers of banks. The new rule seems to be: "Get regulators to place the bank into receivership in order to buy the assets at a fire-sale price."

    It appears that bidders for BankUnited Financial Corp. planned to do just that. They recently asked regulators to place the bank into receivership and now the regulators have complied. Regulators have set a dangerous precedent in this action.

    Bidders for BankUnited Financial Corp waited on the side lines, hoping for the new form of behind the scenes bailout being offered by the FDIC--assets on the cheap. This has the potential to leave bondholders and shareholders out in the cold, just as was done with Washington Mutual Bank.

    Prior to the FDIC's takeover of Washington Mutual, banks would attempt to sell themselves to prospective buyers at or near face value, attempting to get the most for their assets, their shareholders and creditors. Now, having seen the sweet deal JPMorgan Chase received when it bought Washington Mutual's assets for a fraction of their worth, bidders apparently prefer not to deal directly with banks anymore.

    This new approach is a much better deal for acquiring banks and private equity investors, and a losing proposition for shareholders. It has been noted widely, that banks need to increase investments from shareholders in order to raise money, but that is not going to happen as long as banks can be whisked away from shareholders, leaving them out in the cold.

    A new Wall Street motto has been coined: "Remember The WAMU." The sale of WAMU bank, for pennies on the dollar, stunned investors, and has kept them from returning to stocks in the financial sector, especially as new laws are currently underway to increase the authority of the FDIC to seize holding companies as well.

    Changing the rules of the game doesn't appear to have been the FDIC's intention when it sold Washington Mutual for a pittance, but bidders are getting wise and are taking advantage of the way the "new" game is played. This does not bode well for banks, their shareholders or their creditors. Nor does it bode well for the taxpayers who get to pick up the tab once again. The money that is so badly needed by banks, to shore up their losses, is not going to come in the form of stock investments any time soon. That will leave the FDIC to pick up the pieces over and over and over.

    The name Rockefeller wouldn't have anything to do with any of this, of course...

    JP Morgan did OK...didn't they? Retrospectives can help us to properly evaluate new crisis as they emerge. Our memories are often too short term...and we repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

    Please watch all of the following videos (in order). They will help you to understand my perspective. I don't necessarily agree with everything in these videos...but they illustrate and support the general principles and concepts presented in this thread.

    1. Bill Cooper:
    2. Alex Collier: a. b.
    3. Commander X:
    5. Ronald Reagan - Alien Threat - United Nations
    8. Journey To The Solar System
    9. Where the Hell is Matt? (2008)
    10. We Are The World - Michael Jackson Lionel Richie Cindy Lauper Steve Wonder Bruce Springsteen...

    What if - after all of this rambling, ranting, and raving - I finally got what I thought I wanted - and then decided that it was all a very bad idea??? We should be prepared to contradict ourselves, and reverse course, shouldn't we? Again - this thread is designed to make YOU think. It's sort of a mental-gymnasium. This thread should not be a security blanket. I still do not have the answer. I've just been scratching the surface of the way things are supposed to be. I don't claim ownership of any of this. This thread is mostly a rehash of other people's ideas. I truly hope that someone has seen the light from studying this material. Perhaps someday - I'll see the light too!! I am presently qualifying love and freedom with responsibility -- hence responsible-love and responsible-freedom. One should do the responsible-thing rather than the loving-thing. What Would Joseph Fletcher Say?? We need Responsible-Enterprise rather than Free-Enterprise. We need Responsible-Love rather than Free-Love!!!

    What if I became best friends with the Greys, Dracs, Hybrids, Amen Ra, Lucifer, and the Queen of Heaven? I could see myself being the guy pictured in my avatar. (talking to the Queen of Heaven?) Would this be considered to be 'selling-out'? I really don't know enough, at this point, to really know what the future will hold. I just hope that we all do the right thing - and evolve ethically. We have done a really crappy job ethically over the past several thousand years. We all need to do a helluva lot better. I agree with Raven, that I am a completely ignorant fool. I'm working on it - but there isn't a lot of progress. Hope springs eternal. If I ever had any power at all, I would delegate, delegate, delegate. Here's a video series which most of you might not like - but I really appreciate this sort of thing.

    How many of the moons in the solar system do you think have subsurface bases and cities? Should each of these moons become states in the United States of the Solar System? How would you like to be the Representative from Puck? What would Sherri Shriner say? I support solar system tourism. I think that all of the subsurface bases and cities should be selectively accessible by the general public, eventually. (within reason and respectful of all concerned) I wish to eliminate evil from this solar system. Period. I'm not necessarily anti-alien or anti-reptilian. But if you guys mess with me - it will be very, very difficult to gain my trust and compassion in the future. Be careful. I might've been a helluva warrior in a previous life. I hope not - but one never knows. I might stop singing Kumbaya - and start playing the Sonata on the 94th Psalm by Julius Reubke. 1. 2. 3. Look up the words. This solar system will be a paradise - but this won't happen overnight. I continue to be open - yet very wary. Beware of the Descended Disasters. Evil will be exposed and eliminated. Choose wisely. Time is running out - but there is still time to change the road you are on. Namaste.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue May 21, 2013 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue May 21, 2013 2:33 pm

    I continue to be somewhat fascinated by the Thuban-Phenomenon -- but I can't really get into it. I have a much different background and modus-operandi -- yet I wish to remain somewhat open to ALL points of view. I am especially interested in their astronomical approach -- linked with quotes from the King James Version of the Holy Bible -- combined with a Trans-Humanistic Bias. Consider reading Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen while listening to a Great Organist practice in a Great Cathedral. Mother Teresa used to carry a copy of Life of Christ with her. There is a very moving image of Dr. Albert Schweitzer listening to Marcel Dupre playing the organ at Saint Sulpice or Notre Dame (first image below). Never Neglect to Reverence Life!! If I could start over -- I think I might try a double major and career in Astronomy and Church-Music. Siriusly!! 1. 2. 3. 4. (I'm in LOVE!!) What Would Angela Kraft Cross Say?? What Would Angela Play?? Vierne or Brahms?? What Would K.S. Bach Say?? (K.S. = Kimo Smith -- for those of you from Rio Linda -- those from Loma Linda (plus a few Hollywood Presbyterians) already know!!) What Would Lloyd John Ogilvie Say?? I'd love to hear his take on Washington D.C. The Rev. Dr. Lloyd, J. Ogilvie, former Chaplain of the U.S. Senate, talks about five dimensions of God's blessing. I used to listen to Dr. Ogilvie (and Kimo) at the Hollywood Presbyterian Church.

    Raven wrote:[6:22:38 PM] Sirius 17:

    Computing the Distance Between Two Stars

    In this case of computing the distance between two stars, we are treating the stars as simple points in 3D space. So, finding the distance between them, becomes a simple matter of 3D trigonometry.

    In astronomy, we generally give stars 3D spherical coordinates. They are the standard right ascension, declination and distance coordinates of the stars. On Earth we use longitude and latitude, in astronomy, we use right ascension and declination respectively as coordinates. These standard stellar coordinates are cataloged for many stars (Epoch J2000 is used here) and they can be used for 3D computations to the extent of their accuracy.

    The 3rd coordinate, the distance, is often symbolized by R because it represents the radius vector (radius of a sphere), the line directed between the eye and star. The coordinates are envisioned as a grid drawn on the surface of an infinitely large sphere with our eye at the center and the star at distance R from the eye with apparent longitude (right ascension) and latitude (declination) coordinates as viewed projected against the sphere.

    From the stellar spherical coordinates (α,δ,R), we compute the corresponding rectangular (X,Y,Z) coordinates from which the linear spatial distance (D) between two stars can then be computed.

    For any given star, let:
    α (alpha) = Right Ascension (0 to 360 degrees) = Celestial longitude
    δ (delta) = Declination (0 to ±90 degrees) = Celestial latitude
    R = Distance in light years

    Given the spherical (α,δ,R) coordinates of a star, the corresponding
    rectangular (X,Y,Z) coordinates may be computed from:

    Given the spherical (α,δ,R) coordinates for two stars, distinguished
    by subscripts, to compute the distance between the stars, we first
    compute their corresponding rectangular (X,Y,Z) coordinates:

    For the first star:

    For the second star:

    We now take the differences between the computed (XYZ) coordinates:

    Finally, the distance between the two stars
    in 3D XYZ-space may be computed from:

    Emeth, Sunday, May 19th, 2013

    First Contact between Old Earth and New Earth (Xylanthia Revisited) as an Extraterrestrial Sentience in the Starsystem of Sirius

    The wiki entry below calculates the distance scales to the nearest stars to the best approximations available using the present status of the technology of terrestrial science and astrophysics. It is observed, that the two nearest star systems to Earth are observed in the constellation of the Southern Cross and the 'brightest star' in the sky in the Dog Star Sirius, also known to the Thuban observers as the God-Star Sirius A or Alpha in the constellation of the Great Dog or Canis Major.

    The 'Southern Cross' contains the Centaurian triple star system of Alpha Centauri, Beta Centauri and the closest known star to Earth in Proxima Centauri at 4.2421(16) lightyears.

    The brightest star in the nightsky, as observed from earth is Sirius A or the Dog-Star of antiquity known as Sothis (Greek) and Sopdet (Egyptian) and its distance is measured to be 8.5828(289) lightyears as part of a binary star system with Sirius B or Beta and which is a White Dwarf star the mass of the Sun, but compressed to the size of a planet like the earth.

    As can be ascertained from the completing diagram at the end of this message; the Thuban Commission of the World Logos stipulated December 8th, 2004 as the beginning of a warping timeperiod ending on March 31st, 2012 with a 265 gestation period to December 21st, 2012. On December 21st, 2012, the 'normal or long time' count ended in the prophetic encoding and synchronisation patterns as found in the ancient scrolls of antiquity and including the historical bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi documents.

    Then from December 21st, 2012 onwards a contracted time scale of 'shortened days' came into effect and it is this time count which ends on June 17th, 2013 as the Image of March 31st, 2012 and also the 265 day offset of the 'cosmic pregnancy' permeating the entire time day count from March 18th, 2004 (265 days before December 8th, 2004) and July 5th, 2013 (265 days after October 12th, 2012) in 2935+2935/15=2935+195⅔ = 3130⅔ days.

    3131 days are 3130.66/365.25=8.57129... 'Civil/Gregorian' years for the period in question and so the time for contact, being either the reception of a Sirian message sent from Sirius or received by the Sirian starsystem from Earth can be calibrated using the uncertainty of the measurement of the astronomical displacement scale under consideration.

    The average displacement value for the Dog-Star is 8.5828 lightyears with an error spread of 0.0289 lightyears for an interval of 8.5539 - 8.5828 - 8.6117 lightyears.

    For a lightspeed of 299,792,458 meters per second (SI units), this interval of 0.0578 lightyears or 0.0578x365.25=21.11 lightdays so becomes centred in a three week period of 10 days before and 10 days after a mean value day at the 8.5828 lightyear marker or nexus point.

    8.57129.. lightyears are 8.5828-8.5713=0.0115 lightyears or 4.2 lightdays from the average value of displacement calculated for Sirius A. This then calibrates the 21 day period to be cosmically marked in July 4th-July 5th, 2013 as 21=10+1+10=6+4+1+10 days and beginning on June 30th-July 1st, 2013 and ending on July 21st-July 22nd, 2013 on Mary Magdalene Day 2013 and becoming midpointed on July 10th-July 11th, 2013 as stipulated by the error spread of the terrestrial measurements.

    At the time of the beginning of the Dragon Made Warpzone (Dragon Made is an anagram for the coded label of Armageddon), a message can be said to have been sent between the cocooned or cosmically quarantined planet Earth and the Dog Star Sothis to mirror the binary Sirian starsystem in a male-female or yang-yin image of the local star Sol (Thuban's RaHSol) with its biovital planet partner Gaia or Earth. This signal then would arrive as a 'First Contact' between the 'outer terrestrial space' and the 'inner Gaean space' either as a signal sent from the God Star 'Father' to its exiled 'Mother' Gaia or Baab or vice versa as a returning or homecoming message from the cocooned cosmic mother planet to her original creator partner Abba, as the cosmic father sun.

    It is deemed necessity by the cosmic jurisdiction and jurisprudence, to synchronise the historical linearised timeflow in a lower physicalized dimensional cosmology with its higher dimensional metaphysical progenitor. The linear timecount of 3131 days (3131=1331=26=8=∞=Number of alphanumeric ciphers or identities as 26 bosonic superstring dimensions) then defines the 'Path of the Light' as a cosmic Logos dispensation as the WORDS aka the SWORD of God as metaphorically symbolised by the GoDDoG Star in a modular duality monadized in the Abba-Baab archetypology.

    The Zephaniah code 3.9 emphasizes this requirement of harmonisation of historical edifices and systems of thought, which are and were often considered mutually incompatible and often became factionalised in divisiory labels such as 'Reason of Science' versus 'Superstition and Fantasy of Religion' and similar semantifications.

    Zephaniah 3 (KJV)

    9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

    The 'pure language' represents then a new cosmic harmonisation and reconfiguration of previously often thought incompatible and opposing principles and statutes of legislature. The 'Lord' likewise is not some extraneous deity or entity of supernatural potency and origin, but the overall encompassment of the creation ex nihilo par infinitum itself. And those 'extrahuman' identities include all lifeforms terrestrial and extraterrestrial by definition of the nature of Abba and Baab as the original creator-creation dichotomy itself.

    The 3131 days so complete the final three chapters, 20-22 in the 'Book of Revelation' in the Christian bible with June 17th, 2013 triggering chapter 20 and July 5th initialising chapter 21 in a 'resetting' of the cosmic code of the origins in the cosmogenesis of the cosmogony as the ontology for all possible cosmologies across all spacetimes and trimespaces. Details on the omni-science of the cosmic dragonhood can be found in the Thuban data bases.

    From July 5th, 2013 a new cosmic lawfulness and encompassing all lower dimensional sciences, including its physical determinants will so come into effect. As is detailed in other messages, since December 21st, 2012 the 4-dimensional Minkowskian Euclidean 'flat' spacetime metric has become reconfigured into a 'curved' 5-dimensional timespace metric with one extra spacial dimension 'opened up' to allow a dedensification of all physical parameters.

    This, in practical terms means, that this 'extra curvature spacetime' can be utilised for hitherto unmeasurable hyperphysical phenomena such as plasmic phase changes associated with so called UFO- and ET perceptions to be rendered 'physicalised'. This 'new dimensionality' is especially relevant for the energy cocoon or bubble around the Earth and extending so 2 million metric kilometres from the Centre of the Earth into the 'Bubble- or Noosphere space' surrounding it. Since December 21st, 2012, this 'planetary core' (Hill Sphere defined by a starsystems Lagrangian positions of gravitational equilibria) serves its cosmic agenda in opening the communication channels of the old planet Gaia as a new Starplanet Gaia Serpentina in geometrically defining the new 5-dimensional hypertimespace expanding at lightspeed from the Gaian centre into the old universe in this cosmic process and ambassadorahood of manifesting a new universe seeded on the old. This agency is more detailed in the references and links given in this message as the update regarding Starplanet Gaia Serpentina.

    In view of those stipulations, it can be inferred, that no ET contact between Earth and any starsystem is possible until the message sent 8½ years ago has been received; despite the new hyperspace realm beginning on December 21st, 2012 having extended past the local solar system of RaHSol. At the time of writing on May 7th, 2013, the hypertimespace, centred on the core of the starplanet Gaia Serpentina, 136 lightdays have elapsed to cover a lightpath radius of
    136x24x3600x300,000,000=3,525,120,000,000,000 meters or 3 trillion 525 billion 120 million kilometers or so 23,501 AUs (Astronomical Units). This will increase to 5 trillion 80 billion 320 million kilometers or so 33,869 AUs by July 5th, 2013 in a location of the so defined Ooort Cloud at the edge of the starsystem named after the local star RaHSol.

    December 8th, 2004 as the beginning of the Thuban warpzone also contains a historical timemarker in the form of John Lennon, who 'dragonised' on December 8th, 1980 and so 24 years prior to December 8th, 2004. One of his most known composition is 'Imagine' written in 1971 and this song in words and melody is most appropriate as a cosmic signature connecting the human family to its extraterrestrial or cosmic inheritance and legacy.

    John Lennon: October 9th, 1940 - December 8th, 1980

    Star List

    Stars visible to the unaided eye have their magnitude shown in light blue below. The classes of the stars and brown dwarfs are shown in the color of their spectral types (these colors are derived from conventional names for the spectral types and do not represent the star's observed color). Many brown dwarfs are not listed by visual magnitude but are listed by near-IR J band magnitude. Some of the parallax and distance results are preliminary measurements.

    Light-years (±err)
    Stellar class
    Apparent magnitude
    (mV or mJ)
    Absolute magnitude
    (MV or MJ)
    Epoch J2000.0
    Right ascension][2]
    Epoch J2000.0

    Discovery dateAdditional
    0Solar SystemSun G2V[2]−26.74[2]4.85[2]has eight planets

    (Rigil Kentaurus)
    (V645 Centauri)
    1M5.5Ve11.09[2]15.53[2]14h 29m
    −62° 40′ 46″768.87(029)[5][6]1915[7]
    4.3650(68)α Centauri A (HD 128620)2G2V[2]0.01[2]4.38[2]14h 39m
    −60° 50′ 02″747.23(117)[5][8]
    α Centauri B (HD 128621)2K1V[2]1.34[2]5.71[2]14h 39m
    −60° 50′ 14″1689has one known planet[9]
    25.9630(109)Barnard's Star (BD+04°3561a)4M4.0Ve9.53[2]13.22[2]17h 57m
    04° 41′ 36″546.98(1 00)[5][6]1916largest known proper
    WISE 1049-5319 A5L7.5[11]10.7 J 10h 49m 15.57s−53° 19′ 06″496 (37)[12]2013
    WISE 1049-5319 B5T0.5[11]
    47.7825(390)Wolf 359 (CN Leonis)7M6.0V[2]13.44[2]16.55[2]10h 56m
    07° 00′ 53″419.10(210)[5]
    58.2905(148)Lalande 21185
    (BD 36°2147)
    8M2.0V[2]7.47[2]10.44[2]11h 03m
    35° 58′ 12″393.42(070)[5][6]
    (α Canis Majoris)
    Sirius A9A1V[2]−1.46[2]1.42[2]06h 45m 08.9s−16° 42′ 58″380.02(128)[5][6]brightest star in the night sky
    Sirius B9DA2[2]8.44[2]11.34[2]1844
    Luyten 726-8 A (BL Ceti)11M5.5Ve12.54[2]15.40[2]01h 39m 01.3s−17° 57′ 01″373.70(270)[5]1948
    Luyten 726-8 B (UV Ceti)11M6.0Ve12.99[2]15.85[2]
    89.6813(512)Ross 154 (V1216 Sagittarii)13M3.5Ve10.43[2]13.07[2]18h 49m
    −23° 50′ 10″336.90(178)[5][6]
    910.322(36)Ross 248 (HH Andromedae)14M5.5Ve12.29[2]14.79[2]23h 41m
    44° 10′ 30″316.00(110)[5]
    1010.521[13]WISE 1506+702715T614.3 J 15h 06m
    70° 27′ 36″310(042)[13]2011
    16K2V[2]3.73[2]6.19[2]03h 32m
    −09° 27′ 30″309.99(079)[5][6] believed to have two planets[14]
    1210.742(31)Lacaille 9352
    17M1.5Ve7.34[2]9.75[2]23h 05m
    −35° 51′ 11″303.64(087)[5][6]
    1310.919(49)Ross 128 (FI Virginis)18M4.0Vn11.13[2]13.51[2]11h 47m
    00° 48′ 16″298.72(135)[5][6]
    19Y1>22.8 J[15] 03h 50m−56° 58′291(050)[13]2012

    (Gliese 866, Luyten 789-6)
    EZ Aquarii A20M5.0Ve13.33[2]15.64[2]22h 38m 33.4s−15° 18′ 07″289.50(440)[5]
    EZ Aquarii B20M?13.27[2]15.58[2]
    EZ Aquarii C20M?14.03[2]16.34[2]
    (α Canis Minoris)
    Procyon A23F5V–IV[2]0.38[2]2.66[2]07h 39m 18.1s 05° 13′ 30″286.05(081)[5][6]
    Procyon B23DQZ[2]10.70[2]12.98[2]
    1711.403(22)61 Cygni61 Cygni A (BD 38°4343)25K5.0V[2]5.21[2]7.49[2]21h 06m
    38° 44′ 58″286.04(056)[5][6] first star (other than Sun) to have its distance measured[16]
    61 Cygni B (BD 38°4344)25K7.0V[2]6.03[2]8.31[2]21h 06m
    38° 44′ 31″

    (Gliese 725, BD 59°1915)
    Struve 2398 A (HD 173739)27M3.0V[2]8.90[2]11.16[2]18h 42m
    59° 37′ 49″283.00(169)[5][6]
    Struve 2398 B (HD 173740)27M3.5V[2]9.69[2]11.95[2]18h 42m
    59° 37′ 37″

    (Gliese 15)
    Groombridge 34 A (GX Andromedae)29M1.5V[2]8.08[2]10.32[2]0h 18m 22.9s 44° 01′ 23″280.59(095)[5][6]
    Groombridge 34 B (GQ Andromedae)29M3.5V[2]11.06[2]13.30[2]

    Epsilon Indi A31K5Ve[2]4.69[2]6.89[2]22h 03m
    −56° 47′ 10″275.84(069)[5][6]
    Epsilon Indi Ba31T1.0V12.3 J[17] 22h 04m 10.5s−56° 46′ 58″January 2003
    Epsilon Indi Bb31T6.0V13.2 J[17] August 2003

    Map of nearby stars

    The following map shows all of the star systems within 14 light-years of the Sun (shown as Sol), except for four brown dwarfs discovered after 2009.
    Double and triple stars are shown "stacked", but the true location is the star closest to the central plane. Color corresponds to the table above.

    Updated chart to show the significance of the Oort Cloud and the frequency of related 'cometary visitations relative to the anniversary of the December 21st, 2012 solstice with the solar sunspot cyclicity and a Calendar Calibration of the Maya of 5-Tzolkin in 260x5=1300 Kin or 'civil days' from

    May 26th-27th, 2010 = 13Zip 13Ahau & 14Zip 1Imix to
    December 16th-17th, 2013 = 18Mac 13Ahau & 19Mac 1Imix

    The 5-dimensional 'New Earth' de Gaia Serpentina timespace matrix (or bubble) will have reached the 63,000 Astronomical Unit marker as a lightyear anniversary of the metamorphosis of the old planet into a starplanet

    Details are in the thread above and in the Constitution thread on this forum

    Emeth, April 12th, 2013

    Update on Starplanet Gaia Serpentina's 5-dimensional timespace matrix and the occurrence of 'cometary visitations'

    As the message preceding this update indicates; the above picture (said to be shrouded in an amount of secrecy according to the mentioned Nasa sources) relates to observed and implied changes in the magnetic fields throughout the solar systems of the local starsystem of Rahsol (or Sol as the local Sun, so 8 light minutes or 1 Astronomical Unit (1 AU) of so 150 million kilometres distant from the Earth).
    As 1 AU is the distance between the Sun Rahsol and the Earth, it takes approximately 150,000,000/300,000=500 seconds or 8⅓ minutes for a light signal travelling at lightspeed 'c'=300,000 km per second to travel the distance between the Sun and the Earth.


    Zephaniah 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!

    2 She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the Lord; she drew not near to her God.

    3 Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.

    4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.

    5 The just Lord is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.

    6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.

    7 I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings.

    8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

    9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

    10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

    11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

    12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.

    13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

    14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

    15 The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

    16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

    17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

    18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.

    19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.

    20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord.

    Thuban Constitution Link

    Emeth, May 7th, 2013

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Raven, what do you think of the idea of the Teachings Attributed to Jesus (Red-Letter Teachings in the Gospels) in the context of the Hebrew Great-Sandhedrin (71 members) in the context of a Solar System Supreme Court?? Also, what do you think about incorporating the best aspects of politics and religion into a Legal System on Steroids?? Finally, how should psychology, ethics, politics, religion, business, law, law-enforcement, and the military be properly integrated?? I remain at sea -- as I continue to beat upon the rocks of infidelity...
    Carol wrote:
    Catherine Austin Fitts: The Looting Of America (FULL) Deliberate Implosion of the U.S. Economy
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I will watch this video tomorrow -- but I just wished to suggest reading The Gods of Eden by William Bramley -- as being relevant to this video. I don't know how credible William is -- or how accurate his research is -- but he seems to connect a helluva lot of dots. I can only digest so much of this madness -- so I have to take it rather slowly -- as I find all of this to be way too upsetting and depressing. I keep suggesting all sorts of studies in my threads -- yet I burn out very quickly -- following my own advice. I still think that Archangelic-Thing should be studied to death -- but this topic scares me more than just about anything else I've studied. I keep imagining all sorts of upsetting things. I don't post 90% of what I think about. Siriusly.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Wed May 22, 2013 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed May 22, 2013 12:28 am

    The moving-finger types. Consider the topic of the Soul.

    The soul, in many mythological, religious, philosophical, and psychological traditions, is the incorporeal and, in many conceptions, immortal essence of a person, living thing, or object.[1] According to some religions (including the Abrahamic religions in most of their forms), souls—or at least immortal souls capable of union with the divine[2]—belong only to human beings. For example, the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas attributed "soul" (anima) to all organisms but taught that only human souls are immortal.[3] Other religions (most notably Jainism) teach that all biological organisms have souls, and others further still that non-biological entities (such as rivers and mountains) possess souls. This latter belief is called animism.[4] Anima mundi and the Dharmic Ātman are concepts of a "world soul."

    Soul can function as a synonym for spirit, mind, psyche or self.[5]

    Linguistic aspects


    The Modern English word soul derived from Old English sáwol, sáwel, first attested to in the 8th century poem Beowulf v. 2820 and in the Vespasian Psalter 77.50, and is cognate with other Germanic and Baltic terms for the same idea, including Gothic saiwala, Old High German sêula, sêla, Old Saxon sêola, Old Low Franconian sêla, sîla, Old Norse sála as well as Lithuanian siela. Further etymology of the Germanic word is uncertain. A more recent suggestion[6] connects it with a root for "binding", Germanic *sailian (OE sēlian, OHG seilen), related to the notion of being "bound" in death, and the practice of ritually binding or restraining the corpse of the deceased in the grave to prevent his or her return as a ghost.

    The word is probably an adaptation by early missionaries—particularly Ulfilas, apostle to the Goths during the 3rd century—of a native Germanic concept, which was a translation of Greek ψυχή psychē "life, spirit, consciousness".

    The Greek word is derived from a verb "to cool, to blow" and hence refers to the vital breath, the animating principle in humans and other animals, as opposed to σῶμα (soma) meaning "body". It could refer to a ghost or spirit of the dead in Homer, and to a more philosophical notion of an immortal and immaterial essence left over at death since Pindar. Latin anima figured as a translation of ψυχή since Terence. Psychē occurs juxtaposed to σῶμα e.g. in Matthew 10:28:
    — καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα, τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι·
    φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.
    Vulgate: et nolite timere eos qui occidunt corpus animam autem non possunt occidere sed potius eum timete qui potest et animam et corpus perdere in gehennam. Authorized King James Version (KJV) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
    In the Septuagint (LXX), ψυχή translates Hebrew נפש nephesh, meaning "life, vital breath" and specifically refers to a mortal, physical life, but is in English variously translated as "soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion"; e.g. in Genesis 1:20:
    — וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים יִשְׁרְצ֣וּ הַמַּ֔יִם שֶׁ֖רֶץ נֶ֣פֶשׁ חַיָּ֑ה LXX καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός ἐξαγαγέτω τὰ ὕδατα ἑρπετὰ ψυχῶν ζωσῶν. Vulgate Creavitque Deus cete grandia, et omnem animam viventem atque motabilem. KJV "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth."
    Paul of Tarsus used ψυχή and πνεῦμα specifically to distinguish between the Jewish notions of נפש nephesh and רוח ruah (spirit) (also in LXX, e.g. Genesis 1:2 וְר֣וּחַאֱלֹהִ֔ים = πνεῦμα θεοῦ = spiritus Dei = "the Spirit of God").


    Although the terms soul and spirit are sometimes used interchangeably, soul may denote a more worldly and less transcendent aspect of a person.[7] According to psychologist James Hillman, soul has an affinity for negative thoughts and images, whereas spirit seeks to rise above the entanglements of life and death.[8] The words soul and psyche can also be treated synonymously, although psyche has more physical connotations, whereas soul is connected more closely to spirituality and religion.[9]

    Philosophical views

    The Ancient Greeks used the same word for 'alive' as for 'ensouled', indicating that the earliest surviving western philosophical view believed that the soul was that which gave the body life. The soul was considered the incorporeal or spiritual 'breath' which animates (from the Latin, anima, cf. animal) the living organism.

    Francis M. Cornford quotes Pindar in saying that the soul sleeps while the limbs are active, but when one is sleeping, the soul is active and reveals in many a dream "an award of joy or sorrow drawing near."[10]

    Erwin Rohde writes that the early pre-Pythagorean belief was that the soul had no life when it departed from the body, and retired into Hades with no hope of returning to a body.[11]

    It has been argued that a strict line of causality fails to explain certain phenomena within human experience (such as free will) that have at times been attributed to the soul. (See also: Determinism and free will)

    Some metaphysical thinkers believe that the concept of soul can be a solution for the explanatory gap and the problem of other minds, which suggests that we cannot know if other people really have consciousness.

    Socrates and Plato

    Plato, (424/423 BC – 348/347 BC) drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, (469 BC – 399 BC) considered the soul the essence of a person, being that which decides how we behave. He considered this essence to be an incorporeal, eternal occupant of our being. As bodies die, the soul is continually reborn in subsequent bodies. The Platonic soul comprises three parts:
    1.the logos, or logistikon (mind, nous, or reason)
    2.the thymos, or thumetikon (emotion, or spiritedness, or masculine)
    3.the eros, or epithumetikon (appetitive, or desire, or feminine)

    Each of these has a function in a balanced, level and peaceful soul.


    Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) defined the soul or psyche (ψυχή) as the first actuality of a naturally organized body,[12] but argued against its having a separate existence from the physical body. In Aristotle's view, the primary activity of a living thing constitutes its soul; for example, the soul of an eye, if it were an independent organism, would be seeing (its purpose or final cause).

    The various faculties of the soul or psyche, such as nutrition, sensation, movement, and so forth, when exercised, constitute the "second" actuality, or fulfillment, of the capacity to be alive. A good example is someone who falls asleep, as opposed to someone who falls dead; the former actuality can wake up and go about their life, while the second actuality can no longer do so. Aristotle identified three hierarchical levels of living things: plants, animals, and people, for which groups he identified three corresponding levels of soul, or biological activity: the nutritive activity of growth, sustenance and reproduction which all life shares; the self-willed motive activity and sensory faculties, which only animals and people have in common; and finally reason, of which people alone are capable. Aristotle treats of the soul in his work, De Anima (On the Soul). Aristotle concludes, in the fifth chapter of the third book of this work, that the human active intellect is immortal.[clarification needed][13]

    Avicenna and Ibn al-Nafis

    Following Aristotle, the Muslim philosophers Avicenna (Ibn Sina) and Ibn al-Nafis, further elaborated on the Aristotelian understanding of the soul and developed their own theories on the soul. They both made a distinction between the soul and the spirit, and in particular, the Avicennian doctrine on the nature of the soul was influential among the Scholastics. Some of Avicenna's views on the soul included the idea that the immortality of the soul is a consequence of its nature, and not a purpose for it to fulfill. In his theory of "The Ten Intellects," he viewed the human soul as the tenth and final intellect.

    While he was imprisoned, Avicenna wrote his famous "Floating Man" thought experiment to demonstrate human self-awareness and the substantiality of the soul. He told his readers to imagine themselves suspended in the air, isolated from all sensations, which includes no sensory contact with even their own bodies. He argues that in this scenario one would still have self-consciousness. He thus concludes that the idea of the self is not logically dependent on any physical thing, and that the soul should not be seen in relative terms, but as a primary given, a substance. This argument was later refined and simplified by René Descartes in epistemic terms when he stated: "I can abstract from the supposition of all external things, but not from the supposition of my own consciousness."[14]

    Avicenna generally supported Aristotle's idea of the soul originating from the heart, whereas Ibn al-Nafis rejected this idea and instead argued that the soul "is related to the entirety and not to one or a few organs." He further criticized Aristotle's idea that every unique soul requires the existence of a unique source, in this case the heart. Ibn al-Nafis concluded that "the soul is related primarily neither to the spirit nor to any organ, but rather to the entire matter whose temperament is prepared to receive that soul," and he defined the soul as nothing other than "what a human indicates by saying 'I'."[15]

    Thomas Aquinas

    Following Aristotle and Avicenna, St. Thomas Aquinas (1225 – 1274) understood the soul to be the first actuality of the living body. Consequent to this, he distinguished three orders of life: plants, which feed and grow; animals, which add sensation to the operations of plants; and humans, which add intellect to the operations of animals.

    Concerning the human soul, his epistemological theory required that, since the knower becomes what he knows[16] the soul was definitely not corporeal: for, if it were corporeal when it knew what some corporeal thing was, that thing would come to be within it. Therefore, the soul had an operation which did not rely on a bodily organ and therefore the soul could subsist without the body. Furthermore, since the rational soul of human beings was a subsistent form and not something made up of matter and form, it could not be destroyed in any natural process.[17] The full argument for the immortality of the soul and Thomas's elaboration of Aristotelian theory is found in Question 75 of the Summa Theologica.

    Immanuel Kant

    In his discussions of rational psychology Immanuel Kant (1724–1804) identified the soul as the "I" in the strictest sense and that the existence of inner experience can neither be proved nor disproved. "We cannot prove a priori the immateriality of the soul, but rather only so much: that all properties and actions of the soul cannot be cognized from materiality." It is from the "I", or soul, that Kant proposes transcendental rationalization, but cautions that such rationalization can only determine the limits of knowledge if it is to remain practical.[18]

    James Hillman

    Contemporary psychology is defined as the study of mental processes and behavior. However, the word "psychology" literally means "study of the soul,"[19] and psychologist James Hillman, the founder of archetypal psychology, has been credited with "restoring 'soul' to its psychological sense."[20] Although the words soul and spirit are often viewed as synonyms, Hillman argues that they can refer to antagonistic components of a person. Summarizing Hillman's views, author and psychotherapist Thomas Moore associates spirit with "afterlife, cosmic issues, idealistic values and hopes, and universal truths", while placing soul "in the thick of things: in the repressed, in the shadow, in the messes of life, in illness, and in the pain and confusion of love."[21] Hillman believes that religion—especially monotheism and monastic faiths—and humanistic psychology have tended to the spirit, often at the unfortunate expense of soul.[7] This happens, Moore says, because to transcend the "lowly conditions of the soul ... is to lose touch with the soul, and a split-off spirituality, with no influence from the soul, readily falls into extremes of literalism and destructive fanaticism."[22]

    Hillman's archetypal psychology is in many ways an attempt to tend to the oft-neglected soul, which Hillman views as the "self-sustaining and imagining substrate" upon which consciousness rests. Hillman described the soul as that "which makes meaning possible, [deepens] events into experiences, is communicated in love, and has a religious concern," as well as "a special relation with death."[23] Departing from the Cartesian dualism "between outer tangible reality and inner states of mind," Hillman takes the Neoplatonic stance[24] that there is a "third, middle position" in which soul resides.[25] Archetypal psychology acknowledges this third position by attuning to, and often accepting, the archetypes, dreams, myths, and even psychopathologies through which, in Hillman's view, soul expresses itself.

    Philosophy of mind

    For a contemporary understanding of the soul/mind and the problem concerning its connection to the brain/body, consider the rejection of Descartes' mind/body dualism by Gilbert Ryle's ghost-in-the-machine argument,[26] the tenuous unassailability of Richard Swinburne's argument for the soul,[27] and the advances that have been made in neuroscience that are steadily undermining the validity of the concept of an independent soul/mind. The philosophies of mind and of personal identity also contribute to a contemporary understanding of the mind. The contemporary approach does not so much attack the existence of an independent soul as render the concept less relevant. The advances in neuroscience mainly serve to support the mind/brain identity hypothesis, showing the extent of the correlation between mental states and physical-brain states. The notion of soul has less explanatory power in a western world-view which prefers the empirical explanations involving observable and locatable elements of the brain. Even so, there remain considerable objections to simple-identity theory. Notably, philosophers such as Thomas Nagel and David Chalmers have argued that the correlation between physical-brain states and mental states is not strong enough to support identity theory. Nagel (1974) argues that no amount of physical data is sufficient to provide the "what it is like" of first-person experience, and Chalmers (1996) argues for an "explanatory gap" between functions of the brain and phenomenal experience. On the whole, brain/mind identity theory does poorly in accounting for mental phenomena of qualia and intentionality. While neuroscience has done much to illuminate the functioning of the brain, much of subjective experience remains mysterious.

    Religions of the Ancient Near East

    The souls of Pe and Nekhen towing the royal bargue on a relief of Ramesses II's temple in Abydos.
    In the ancient Egyptian religion, an individual was believed to be made up of various elements, some physical and some spiritual. See the article Egyptian soul for more details.[citation needed]

    Similar ideas are found in ancient Assyrian and Babylonian religion. Kuttamuwa, an 8th century BC royal official from Sam'al, ordered an inscribed stele erected upon his death. The inscription requested that his mourners commemorate his life and his afterlife with feasts "for my soul that is in this stele". It is one of the earliest references to a soul as a separate entity from the body. The 800-pound (360 kg) basalt stele is 3 ft (0.91 m) tall and 2 ft (0.61 m) wide. It was uncovered in the third season of excavations by the Neubauer Expedition of the Oriental Institute in Chicago, Illinois.[28]


    The Bahá'í Faith affirms that "the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel.[29] Bahá'u'lláh stated that the soul not only continues to live after the physical death of the human body, but is, in fact, immortal.[30] Heaven can be seen partly as the soul's state of nearness to God; and hell as a state of remoteness from God. Each state follows as a natural consequence of individual efforts, or the lack thereof, to develop spiritually.[31] Bahá'u'lláh taught that individuals have no existence prior to their life here on earth and the soul's evolution is always towards God and away from the material world.[31]

    Brahma Kumaris

    In Brahma Kumaris, souls, called atmas, are believed to be an infinitesimal point of spiritual light residing in the forehead of the bodies they occupy. Every soul has three separate faculties which are inherent in all human beings irrespective of place of birth. Just as electrical energy produces warmth, sound or light depending on the device through which it passes, similarly, the energy of consciousness functions through three different but closely connected faculties, referred to respectively by the terms mind, intellect, and personality.

    The Mind With the power of the mind, one imagines, thinks and forms ideas. Thoughts are created in the mind. The thought process is the basis of all emotions, desires and sensations. It is through the minds that, in an instant, thoughts reach anywhere, a memory can be relived and the feeling of happiness or sadness is experienced. The metaphysical mind should not be confused with the heart, the physical organ that maintains blood circulation.

    The Intellect Thoughts are processed and interpreted by the intellect. This is the faculty which understands. The capacity to understand is perhaps the single most crucial ability of the soul. Clear understanding of anything is possible when the intellect becomes broad, deep and farsighted through the regular study of spiritual knowledge and the disciplined practice of meditation. The intellect also reasons, memorizes, discriminates and makes decisions. The non–physical intellect should not be confused with the physical brain, which is the physical focus of the nervous system. The brain is the soul’s control panel; it provides the facilities for the soul’s expression.

    The Personality[32] Any action once performed leaves an impression on the soul. Habits, temperaments and tendencies are all embedded in the soul (as images, feelings, sounds, trains of thought, etc.) as a result of every action performed. The most fundamental feature of every soul, its personality, is determined by such stored impressions. These impressions, formed in the past, are the reservoir which we draw upon, often sub–consciously, as our source of thoughts and actions in the present[citation needed]


    Buddhism teaches that all things are in a constant state of flux: all is changing, and no permanent state exists by itself.[33][34] This applies to human beings as much as to anything else in the cosmos. Thus, a human being has no permanent self.[35][36] According to this doctrine of anatta (Pāli; Sanskrit: anātman) – "no-self" or "no soul" – the words "I" or "me" do not refer to any fixed thing. They are simply convenient terms that allow us to refer to an ever-changing entity.[37]

    The anatta doctrine is not a kind of materialism. Buddhism does not deny the existence of "immaterial" entities, and it (at least traditionally) distinguishes bodily states from mental states.[38] Thus, the conventional translation of anatta as "no-soul"[39] can be confusing. If the word "soul" simply refers to an incorporeal component in living things that can continue after death, then Buddhism does not deny the existence of the soul.[40] Instead, Buddhism denies the existence of a permanent entity that remains constant behind the changing corporeal and incorporeal components of a living being. Just as the body changes from moment to moment, so thoughts come and go. And there is no permanent, underlying mind that experiences these thoughts, as in Cartesianism; rather, conscious mental states simply arise and perish with no "thinker" behind them.[41] When the body dies, the incorporeal mental processes continue and are reborn in a new body.[40] Because the mental processes are constantly changing, the being that is reborn is neither entirely different than, nor exactly the same as, the being that died.[42] However, the new being is continuous with the being that died – in the same way that the "you" of this moment is continuous with the "you" of a moment before, despite the fact that you are constantly changing.[43]

    Buddhist teaching holds that a notion of a permanent, abiding self is a delusion that is one of the causes of human conflict on the emotional, social, and political levels.[44][45] They add that an understanding of anatta provides an accurate description of the human condition, and that this understanding allows us to pacify our mundane desires.

    Various schools of Buddhism have differing ideas about what continues after death.[46] The Yogacara school in Mahayana Buddhism said there are Store consciousness which continue to exist after death.[47] In some schools, particularly Tibetan Buddhism, the view is that there are three minds: very subtle mind, which does not disintegrate in death; subtle mind, which disintegrates in death and which is "dreaming mind" or "unconscious mind"; and gross mind, which does not exist when one is sleeping. Therefore, gross mind less permanent than subtle mind, which does not exist in death. Very subtle mind, however, does continue, and when it "catches on", or coincides with phenomena, again, a new subtle mind emerges, with its own personality/assumptions/habits, and that entity experiences karma in the current continuum.

    Plants were said to be non-sentient (無情),[48] but Buddhist monks should avoid cutting or burning trees, because some sentient beings rely on them.[49] Some Mahayana monks said non-sentient beings such as plants and stones have buddha-nature.[50][51] Some buddhists said about plants or divisible consciousnesses[clarification needed].[52]

    Certain modern Buddhists, particularly in Western countries, reject—or at least take an agnostic stance toward—the concept of rebirth or reincarnation, which they view as incompatible with the concept of anatta. Stephen Batchelor discusses this issue in his book, Buddhism Without Beliefs. Others point to research that has been conducted at the University of Virginia as proof that some people are reborn.[53]


    See also: Soul in the Bible

    Most Christians understand the soul as an ontological reality distinct from, yet integrally connected with, the body. Its characteristics are described in moral, spiritual, and philosophical terms. According to a common Christian eschatology, when people die, their souls will be judged by God and determined to spend an eternity in Heaven or in Hell. Though all branches of Christianity –Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, Evangelical or mainline Protestants – teach that Jesus Christ plays a decisive role in the salvation process, the specifics of that role and the part played by individual persons or ecclesiastical rituals and relationships, is a matter of wide diversity in official church teaching, theological speculation and popular practice. Some Christians believe that if one has not repented of one's sins and trusted in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, one will go to Hell and suffer eternal damnation or eternal separation from God. Variations also exist on this theme, e.g. some which hold that the unrighteous soul will be destroyed instead of suffering eternally (Annihilationism). Believers will inherit eternal life in Heaven and enjoy eternal fellowship with God. There is also a belief that babies (including the unborn) and those with cognitive or mental impairments who have died will be received into Heaven on the basis of God's grace through the sacrifice of Jesus. And there are beliefs in universal salvation and Christian conditionalism.

    Among Christians, there is uncertainty regarding whether human embryos have souls, and at what point between conception and birth the fetus acquires a soul and consciousness. This uncertainty is the general reasoning behind many Christians' belief that abortion should not be legal.[54][55][56]

    Soul as the personality: Some Christians regard the soul as the immortal essence of a human – the seat or locus of human will, understanding, and personality.[citation needed]

    Trichotomy of the soul: Augustine, one of western Christianity's most influential early Christian thinkers, described the soul as "a special substance, endowed with reason, adapted to rule the body". Some Christians espouse a trichotomic view of humans, which characterizes humans as consisting of a body (soma), soul (psyche), and spirit (pneuma).[57] However, the majority of modern Bible scholars point out how spirit and soul are used interchangeably in many biblical passages, and so hold to dichotomy: the view that each of us is body and soul. Paul said that the "body wars against" the soul, and that "I buffet my body", to keep it under control. Philosopher Anthony Quinton said the soul is a "series of mental states connected by continuity of character and memory, [and] is the essential constituent of personality. The soul, therefore, is not only logically distinct from any particular human body with which it is associated; it is also what a person is". Richard Swinburne, a Christian philosopher of religion at Oxford University, wrote that "it is a frequent criticism of substance dualism that dualists cannot say what souls are... Souls are immaterial subjects of mental properties. They have sensations and thoughts, desires and beliefs, and perform intentional actions. Souls are essential parts of human beings..."

    Origin of the soul: The origin of the soul has provided a vexing question in Christianity; the major theories put forward include soul creationism, traducianism and pre-existence. According to creationism, each individual soul is created directly by God, either at the moment of conception or some later time (identical twins arise several cell divisions after conception, but no creationist would deny that they have whole souls). According to traducianism, the soul comes from the parents by natural generation. According to the preexistence theory, the soul exists before the moment of conception.

    Various denominations

    The present Catechism of the Catholic Church defines the soul as "the innermost aspect of humans, that which is of greatest value in them, that by which they are most especially in God's image: 'soul' signifies the spiritual principle in man."[58] All souls living and dead will be judged by Jesus Christ when he comes back to earth. The souls of those who die unrepentant of serious sins, or in conscious rejection of God, will at judgment day be forever in a state called Hell[citation needed]. The Catholic Church teaches that the existence of each individual soul is dependent wholly upon God: "The doctrine of the faith affirms that the spiritual and immortal soul is created immediately by God."[59]

    Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox views are somewhat similar, in essence, to Roman Catholic views although different in specifics. Orthodox Christians believe that after death, the soul is judged individually by God, and then sent to either Abraham's Bosom (temporary paradise) or Hades/Hell (temporary torture).[citation needed] At the Last Judgment, God judges all people who have ever lived. Those that know the Spirit of God, because of the sacrifice of Jesus, go to Heaven (permanent paradise) whilst the damned experience the Lake of Fire (permanent torture). The Orthodox Church does not teach that Purgatory exists.

    Protestants generally believe in the soul's existence, but fall into two major camps about what this means in terms of an afterlife. Some, following Calvin,[60] believe in the immortality of the soul and conscious existence after death, while others, following Luther,[61] believe in the mortality of the soul and unconscious "sleep" until the resurrection of the dead.[62]

    Other Christians reject the idea of the immortality of the soul, citing the Apostles' Creed's reference to the "resurrection of the body" (the Greek word for body is soma σωμα, which implies the whole person, not sarx σαρξ, the term for flesh or corpse). They consider the soul to be the life force, which ends in death and will be restored in the resurrection.[citation needed] Theologian Frederick Buechner sums up this position in his 1973 book Whistling in the Dark: "...we go to our graves as dead as a doornail and are given our lives back again by God (i.e., resurrected) just as we were given them by God in the first place. "[citation needed]

    Christadelphians believe that we are all created out of the dust of the earth and became living souls once we received the breath of life based on the Genesis 2 account of humanity's creation. Adam was said to have become a living soul. His body did not contain a soul, rather his body (made from dust) plus the breath of life together were called a soul, in other words a living being. They believe that we are mortal and when we die our breath leaves our body, and our bodies return to the soil. They believe that we are mortal until the resurrection from the dead when Christ returns to this earth and grants immortality to the faithful. In the meantime, the dead lie in the earth in the sleep of death until Jesus comes.[63]

    Seventh-day Adventists believe that the main definition of the term "Soul" is a combination of spirit (breath of life) and body, disagreeing with the view that the soul has a consciousness or sentient existence of its own.[citation needed] They affirm this through Genesis 2:7 "And (God) breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."[64] When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.[65] Adventists believe at death the body returns to dust and life returns to the God who bestowed it. This belief is expressed in the following quotation from their fundamental beliefs, "The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people..." (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11–14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51–54; 1 Thess. 4:13–17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1–10.)

    Jehovah's Witnesses take the Hebrew word nephesh, which is commonly translated as "soul", to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. They believe that the Hebrew word ruach (Greek pneuma), which is commonly translated as "spirit" but literally means "wind", refers to the life force or the power that animates living things. A person is a breathing creature, a body animated by the "spirit of God", not an invisible being contained in a body and able to survive apart from that body after death. Jesus spoke of himself, having life, as having a soul. When he surrendered his life, he surrendered his soul. John 10:15 reads "just as the Father knows me and I know the father, and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep." This belief that man is a soul, rather than having a soul, is also in line with the knowledge that Hell (Sheol in Hebrew and Hades in Greek) represents the common grave with the hope of resurrection rather than eternal torment in hellfire.[66][67]

    Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe that the spirit and body together constitute the Soul of Man (Mankind). "The spirit and the body are the soul of man"[68] They believe that the soul is the union of a pre-existing, God-made spirit[69][70] and a temporal body, which is formed by physical conception on earth. After death, the spirit continues to live and progress in the Spirit world until the resurrection, when it is reunited with the body that once housed it. This reuniting of body and spirit results in a perfect soul that is immortal and eternally young and healthy.[71]

    Ātman (Hinduism) and Jiva

    In Hinduism, the Sanskrit words most closely corresponding to soul are jiva, Ātman and "purusha", meaning the individual self. The term "soul" is misleading as it implies an object possessed, whereas self signifies the subject which perceives all objects. This self is held to be distinct from the various mental faculties such as desires, thinking, understanding, reasoning and self-image (ego), all of which are considered to be part of prakriti (nature).

    The three major schools of Hindu philosophy agree that the atman (individual self) is related to Brahman or the Paramatman, the Absolute Atman or Supreme Self, but they differ in the nature of this relationship. In Advaita Vedanta the individual self and the Supreme Self are one and the same. Dvaita rejects this concept of identity, instead identifying the self as a separate but similar part of Supreme Self (God), that never loses its individual identity. Visishtadvaita takes a middle path and accepts the atman as a "mode" (prakara) or attribute of the Brahman. For an alternative atheistic and dualistic view of the soul in ancient Hindu philosophy, see Samkhya.

    The atman becomes involved in the process of becoming and transmigrating through cycles of birth and death because of ignorance of its own true nature. The spiritual path consists of self-realization – a process in which one acquires the knowledge of the self (brahma-jñanam) and through this knowledge applied through meditation and realization one then returns to the Source which is Brahman.

    The qualities which are common to both Brahman and atmam are being (sat), consciousness (chit), and bliss/love (ananda). Liberation or moksha is liberation from all limiting adjuncts (upadhis) and the unification with Brahman.

    The Mandukya Upanishad verse 7 describes the atman in the following way:

    "Not inwardly cognitive, not outwardly cognitive, not both-wise cognitive, not a cognition-mass, not cognitive, not non-cognitive, unseen, with which there can be no dealing, ungraspable, having no distinctive mark, non-thinkable, that cannot be designated, the essence of the assurance of which is the state of being one with the Self, the cessation of development, tranquil, benign, without a second (a-dvaita)—[such] they think is the fourth. That is the Self. That should be discerned."

    In Bhagavad Gita 2.20[72] Lord Krishna describes the soul in the following way:

    na jayate mriyate va kadacin nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah ajo nityah sasvato yam purano na hanyate hanyamane sarire

    "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever – existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." [Translation by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (Srila Prabhupada)][73]

    Srila Prabhupada,[74] a great Vaishnava saint of the modern time further explains: "The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die...And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing and primeval – that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being."

    Since the quality of Aatma is primarily consciousness, all sentient and insentient beings are pervaded by Aatma, including plants, animals, humans and gods. The difference between them is the contracted or expanded state of that consciousness. For example, animals and humans share in common the desire to live, fear of death, desire to procreate and to protect their families and territory and the need for sleep, but animals' consciousness is more contracted and has less possibility to expand than does human consciousness.

    When the Aatma becomes embodied it is called birth, when the Aatma leaves a body it is called death. The Aatma transmigrates from one body to another body based on karmic [performed deeds] reactions.

    In Hinduism, the Sanskrit word most closely corresponding to soul is "Aatma", which can mean soul or even God. It is seen as the portion of Brahman within us. Hinduism contains many variant beliefs on the origin, purpose, and fate of the soul. For example, advaita or non-dualistic conception of the soul accords it union with Brahman, the absolute uncreated (roughly, the Godhead), in eventuality or in pre-existing fact. Dvaita or dualistic concepts reject this, instead identifying the soul as a different and incompatible substance.


    Further information: Nafs

    According to the Quran, Ruh (Spirit) is a command from Allah (God).

    And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul (Rûh). Say, "The soul (Rûh) is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little." [Quran 17]

    Islam teaches the soul is immortal and eternal. What a person does is definitely recorded and will be judged at the utterly court of the God.

    From the Holy Quran Chapter 39 Surah Zumar verse 42:

    42 It is Allah that takes the souls at death: and those that die not (He takes their souls) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the Decree of death He keeps back (their souls from returning to their bodies); but the rest He sends (their souls back to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who contemplate.

    Atman (Jainism) and Jiva

    Further information: Jain philosophy, Jainism and non-creationism, and Atma Siddhi

    In Jainism every living being, from a plant or a bacterium to human, has a soul. The soul (jiva) is differentiated from non-soul or non-living reality (ajiva) that consists of matter, time, space, medium of motion and medium of rest.[citation needed] Concerning the Jain view of the soul, Virchand Gandhi quoted "...the soul lives its own life, not for the purpose of the body, but the body lives for the purpose of the soul. If we believe that the soul is to be controlled by the body then soul misses its power."[75]


    The Hebrew terms נפש nephesh (literally "living being"), רוח ruach (literally "wind"), נשמה neshama (literally "breath"), חיה chaya (literally "life") and יחידה yechidah (literally "singularity") are used to describe the soul or spirit. In modern Judaism the soul is believed to be given by God to a person by his/her first breath, as mentioned in Genesis, "And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." Genesis 2:7. Judaism relates the quality of one's soul to one's performance of mitzvot and reaching higher levels of understanding, and thus closeness to God. A person with such closeness is called a tzadik.

    Kabbalah and other mystic traditions go into greater detail into the nature of the soul. Kabbalah separates the soul into five elements, corresponding to the five worlds:
    1.Nephesh, related to natural instinct.
    2.Ruach, related to emotion and morality.
    3.Neshamah, related to intellect and the awareness of God.
    4.Chaya, considered a part of God, as it were.
    5.Yechidah, also termed the pintele Yid (the "essential [inner] Jew"). This aspect is essentially one with G‑d.

    Kabbalah also proposed a concept of reincarnation, the gilgul. (See also nefesh habehamit the "animal soul").


    According to Nadya Yuguseva, a shaman from the Altai, "'A woman has 40 souls; men have just one[.]'"[76]


    Sikhism considers Soul (atma) to be part of God (Waheguru). Various hymns are cited from the holy book "Sri Guru Granth Sahib" (SGGS) that suggests this belief. "God is in the Soul and the Soul is in the God."[77] The same concept is repeated at various pages of the SGGS. For example: "The soul is divine; divine is the soul. Worship Him with love."[78] and "The soul is the Lord, and the Lord is the soul; contemplating the Shabad, the Lord is found."[79] The "Atma" or "Soul" according to Sikhism is an entity or "spiritual spark" or "light" in our body because of which the body can sustain life. On the departure of this entity from the body, the body becomes lifeless – No amount of manipulations to the body can make the person make any physical actions. The soul is the ‘driver’ in the body. It is the ‘roohu’ or spirit or atma, the presence of which makes the physical body alive. Many religious and philosophical traditions, support the view that the soul is the ethereal substance – a spirit; a non material spark – particular to a unique living being. Such traditions often consider the soul both immortal and innately aware of its immortal nature, as well as the true basis for sentience in each living being. The concept of the soul has strong links with notions of an afterlife, but opinions may vary wildly even within a given religion as to what happens to the soul after death. Many within these religions and philosophies see the soul as immaterial, while others consider it possibly material.


    According to Chinese traditions, every person has two types of soul called hun and po (魂 and 魄), which are respectively yang and yin. Taoism believes in ten souls, sanhunqipo (三魂七魄) "three hun and seven po".[80] The pò is linked to the dead body and the grave, whereas the hún is linked to the ancestral tablet. A living being that loses any of them is said to have mental illness or unconsciousness, while a dead soul may reincarnate to a disability, lower desire realms or may even be unable to reincarnate.


    Other religious beliefs and views

    In theological reference to the soul, the terms "life" and "death" are viewed as emphatically more definitive than the common concepts of "biological life" and "biological death". Because the soul is said to be transcendent of the material existence, and is said to have (potentially) eternal life, the death of the soul is likewise said to be an eternal death. Thus, in the concept of divine judgment, God is commonly said to have options with regard to the dispensation of souls, ranging from Heaven (i.e. angels) to hell (i.e. demons), with various concepts in between. Typically both Heaven and hell are said to be eternal, or at least far beyond a typical human concept of lifespan and time.

    Some transhumanists believe that it will become possible to perform mind transfer, either from one human body to another, or from a human body to a computer. Operations of this type (along with teleportation), raise philosophical questions related to the concept of the soul.[citation needed]

    Spirituality, New Age and new religions


    In Helena Blavatsky's Theosophy the soul is the field of our psychological activity (thinking, emotions, memory, desires, will, and so on) as well as of the so-called paranormal or psychic phenomena (extrasensory perception, out-of-body experiences, etc.). However, the soul is not the highest, but a middle dimension of human beings. Higher than the soul is the spirit, which is considered to be the real self; the source of everything we call “good”—happiness, wisdom, love, compassion, harmony, peace, etc. While the spirit is eternal and incorruptible, the soul is not. The soul acts as a link between the material body and the spiritual self, and therefore shares some characteristics of both. The soul can be attracted either towards the spiritual or towards the material realm, being thus the “battlefield” of good and evil. It is only when the soul is attracted towards the spiritual and merges with the Self that it becomes eternal and divine.


    Rudolf Steiner differentiated three stages of soul development, which interpenetrate one another in consciousness:[81]
    the "sentient soul", centering on sensations, drives, and passions, with strong conative (will) and emotional components;
    the "intellectual" or "mind soul", internalizing and reflecting on outer experience, with strong affective (feeling) and cognitive (thinking) components; and
    the "consciousness soul", in search of universal, objective truths.


    In Surat Shabda Yoga, the soul is considered to be an exact replica and spark of the Divine. The purpose of Surat Shabd Yoga is to realize one's True Self as soul (Self-Realisation), True Essence (Spirit-Realisation) and True Divinity (God-Realisation) while living in the physical body.

    George Gurdjieff in his Fourth Way taught that nobody is ever born with a soul. Rather, an individual must create a soul by a process of self-remembrance and observation during the course of their life. Without a soul, Gurdjieff taught that one will "die like a dog".[citation needed]

    Eckankar, founded by Paul Twitchell in 1965, defines Soul as the true self; the inner, most sacred part of each person.[82]


    Science and medicine seek naturalistic accounts of the observable natural world. This stance is known as methodological naturalism.[83] Much of the scientific study relating to the soul has involved investigating the soul as an object of human belief, or as a concept that shapes cognition and an understanding of the world, rather than as an entity in and of itself.

    When modern scientists speak of the soul outside of this cultural context, they generally treat soul as a poetic synonym for mind. Francis Crick's book, The Astonishing Hypothesis, for example, has the subtitle, "The scientific search for the soul". Crick held the position that one can learn everything knowable about the human soul by studying the workings of the human brain. Depending on one's belief regarding the relationship between the soul and the mind, then, the findings of neuroscience may be relevant to one's understanding of the soul. Skeptic Robert T. Carroll suggests that the concept of a non-substantial substance is an oxymoron, and that the scholarship done by philosophers based on the assumption of a non-physical entity has not furthered scientific understanding of the working of the mind.[84]

    Daniel Dennett has championed the idea that the human survival strategy depends heavily on adoption of the intentional stance, a behavioral strategy that predicts the actions of others based on the expectation that they have a mind like one's own (see theory of mind). Mirror neurons in brain regions such as Broca's area may facilitate this behavioral strategy.[85] The intentional stance, Dennett suggests, has proven so successful that people tend to apply it to all aspects of human experience, thus leading to animism and to other conceptualizations of soul.[86][non-primary source needed]

    Jeremy Griffith has defined soul as the human species' instinctive memory of a time when modern human ancestors lived in a cooperative, selfless state,[87] suggesting this occurred in pre-Homo (i.e. Australopithecus) hominins.


    Some parapsychologists have attempted to establish by scientific experiment whether a soul separate from the brain, as more commonly defined in religion rather than as a synonym of psyche or mind, exists. Milbourne Christopher in his book Search for the Soul (1979) explained that none of the attempts by parapsychologists have yet succeeded.[88]

    Weight of the soul

    In 1901 Dr Duncan MacDougall made weight measurements of patients as they died. He claimed that there was weight loss of varying amounts at the time of death.[89] His results have never been successfully reproduced, and are therefore scientifically meaningless.[90]

    See also
    Metaphysical naturalism
    Mind-body problem
    Philosophical zombie
    Soul dualism


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    Additional references [edit]
    Batchelor, Stephen. Buddhism Without Belief – aha.
    Chalmers, David. J., 1996, The Conscious Mind: In Search of a Fundamental Theory, New York and Oxford: Oxford University Press
    Cornford, Francis, M., Greek Religious Thought, 1950.
    Nagel, Thomas. (1974). “What is it like to be a bat?” Philosophical Review, 83: 435–450.
    Rohde, Erwin, Psyche: The Cult of Souls and the Belief in Immortality Among the Greeks, London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1925; reprinted by Routledge, 2000. ISBN 0-415-22563-9.
    Ryle, Gilbert, 1949, The Concept of Mind, London: Hutchinson.
    Swinburne (1997). The Evolution of the Soul. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
    Stevenson (1975). Cases of the Reincarnation Type, Volume I: Ten Cases in India. University Press of Virginia
    Stevenson (1974). Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation. Charlottesville, VA: University Press of Virginia
    Stevenson (1983). Cases of the Reincarnation Type, Volume IV: Twelve Cases in Thailand and Burma. University Press of Virginia
    Stevenson (1997). Reincarnation and Biology: A Contribution to the Etiology of Birthmarks and Birth Defects. Praeger Publishers
    Wilson (1996). The State of Man: Day Star, Wake Up Seminars. 1996.

    Further reading [edit]
    Baba, Meher (1967). Discourses. San Francisco: Sufism Reoriented. ISBN 1-880619-09-1.
    Bremmer, Jan (1983). The Early Greek Concept of the Soul (PDF). Princeton: Princeton University Press. ISBN 0-691-03131-2. Retrieved 16 August 2007.
    Christopher, Milbourne, Search for the Soul, Thomas Y. Crowell Publishers, 1979
    McGraw, John J., Brain & Belief: An Exploration of the Human Soul, Aegis Press, 2004
    Spenard, Michael (11 April 2011) "Dueling with Dualism: the forlorn quest for the immaterial soul", essay. An historical account of mind body duality and a comprehensive conceptual and empirical critique on the position. ISBN 978-0-578-08288-2

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed May 22, 2013 12:10 pm

    Once again, at this late date, I just wish to repeat that I don't know who's who -- what's what -- or which way to jump. I continue to think this thread is an excellent starting-point and study-guide -- but don't look to this thread, or to me, as being "the answer" in any way, shape, or form -- regardless of who I might've been (or might not have been) in previous incarnations. I really and truly am a Completely Ignorant Fool -- and I'm NOT proud of this inconvenient truth. But, in spite of everything, I will continue this seeming exercise in futility -- because I can -- at least for now. Consider Ancient Theories of the Soul.

    Ancient Theories of Soul

    First published Thu Oct 23, 2003; substantive revision Wed Apr 22, 2009

    Ancient philosophical theories of soul are in many respects sensitive to ways of speaking and thinking about the soul [psuchê] that are not specifically philosophical or theoretical. We therefore begin with what the word ‘soul’ meant to speakers of Classical Greek, and what it would have been natural to think about and associate with the soul. We then turn to various Presocratic thinkers, and to the philosophical theories that are our primary concern, those of Plato (first in the Phaedo, then in the Republic), Aristotle (in the De Anima or On the Soul), Epicurus, and the Stoics. These are by far the most carefully worked out theories of soul in ancient philosophy. Later theoretical developments — for instance, in the writings of Plotinus and other Platonists, as well as the Church Fathers — are best studied against the background of the classical theories, from which, in large part, they derive.

    Adopting a bird's-eye view of the terrain that we will be covering, and setting many details aside for the moment, we can describe it as follows. From comparatively humble Homeric beginnings, the word ‘soul’ undergoes quite remarkable semantic expansion in sixth and fifth century usage. By the end of the fifth century — the time of Socrates' death — soul is standardly thought and spoken of, for instance, as the distinguishing mark of living things, as something that is the subject of emotional states and that is responsible for planning and practical thinking, and also as the bearer of such virtues as courage and justice. Coming to philosophical theory, we first trace a development towards comprehensive articulation of a very broad conception of soul, according to which the soul is not only responsible for mental or psychological functions like thought, perception and desire, and is the bearer of moral qualities, but in some way or other accounts for all the vital functions that any living organism performs. This broad conception, which is clearly in close contact with ordinary Greek usage by that time, finds its fullest articulation in Aristotle's theory. The theories of the Hellenistic period, by contrast, are interested more narrowly in the soul as something that is responsible specifically for mental or psychological functions. They either de-emphasize or sever the ordinary-language connection between soul and life in all its functions and aspects.
    •1. The Greek Notion of Soul◦Supplement: Burnet on the Greek Notion of Soul

    •2. Presocratic Thinking about the Soul
    •3. Plato's Theories of Soul◦3.1 The Phaedo's Theory of Soul
    ◦3.2 The Republic's Theory of Soul

    •4. Aristotle's Theory of Soul
    •5. Hellenistic Theories of Soul◦5.1 Epicurus' Theory of Soul
    ◦5.2 The Stoic Theory of Soul

    •6. Conclusion
    •Other Internet Resources
    •Related Entries


    1. The Greek Notion of Soul

    The Homeric poems, with which most ancient writers can safely be assumed to be intimately familiar, use the word ‘soul’ in two distinguishable, probably related, ways. The soul is, on the one hand, something that a human being risks in battle and loses in death. On the other hand, it is what at the time of death departs from the person's limbs and travels to the underworld, where it has a more or less pitiful afterlife as a shade or image of the deceased person. It has been suggested (for instance, by Snell 1975, 19) that what is referred to as soul in either case is in fact thought of as one and the same thing, something that a person can risk and lose and that, after death, endures as a shade in the underworld. The suggestion is plausible, but cannot be verified. In any case, once a person's soul has departed for good, the person is dead. The presence of soul therefore distinguishes a living human body from a corpse. However, this is plainly not to say that the soul is thought of as what accounts for, or is responsible for, the activities, responses, operations and the like that constitute a person's life. Homer never says that anyone does anything in virtue of, or with, their soul, nor does he attribute any activity to the soul of a living person. Thus, though the presence or absence of soul marks out a person's life, it is not otherwise associated with that life. Moreover, it is a striking feature of Homeric usage that, in Furley's words (Furley 1956, 4), to mention soul is to suggest death: someone's soul comes to mind only when their life is thought, by themselves or others, to be at risk. Thus Achilles says that he is continuously risking his soul (Iliad 9.322), and Agenor reflects on the fact that even Achilles has just one soul (Iliad 11.569). It should also be pointed out that in the Homeric poems, only human beings are said to have (and to lose) souls. Correspondingly, Homer never envisages shades or images of non-human creatures in the underworld. These two facts taken together suggest that in whatever precise way the soul is conceived of as associated with life, it is in any case thought to be connected not with life in general, or life in all its forms, but rather, more specifically, with the life of a human being.

    Several significant developments occurred in the ways Greeks thought and spoke about the soul in the sixth and fifth centuries. The questions about the soul that are formulated and discussed in the writings of Plato and Aristotle to some extent arise from, and need to be interpreted against the background of, these sixth and fifth century developments. One factor that is of central importance is the gradual loss of the Homeric connection between mentioning a person's soul and the thought that their life is vulnerable or at risk (contra Burnet 1916, 253). In ordinary fifth century Greek, having soul is simply being alive; hence the emergence, at about this time, of the adjective ‘ensouled’ [empsuchos] as the standard word meaning “alive”, which was applied not just to human beings, but to other living things as well. There is some reason to think that the word ‘soul’ was used in this straightforwardly positive way already in the sixth century. Thales of Miletus, who is credited with successfully predicting a solar eclipse occurring in 585, reportedly attributed soul to magnets, on the grounds that magnets are capable of moving iron (Aristotle, De Anima 1.2, 405a19-21). Thales' thought was presumably that since it is distinctive of living things to be able to initiate movement, magnets must in fact be alive or, in other words, ensouled. Thus, while Homer spoke of soul only in the case of human beings, in sixth and fifth century usage soul is attributed to every kind of living thing. What is in place, then, at this time is the notion that soul is what distinguishes that which is alive from that which is not.

    However, it is not just that soul is said to be present in every living thing. It is also the case that an increasingly broad range of ways of acting and being acted on is attributed to the soul. Thus it has come to be natural, by the end of the fifth century, to refer pleasure taken in food and drink, as well as sexual desire, to the soul. (For detailed discussion, see Claus 1981, 73-85.) People are said, for example, to satisfy their souls with rich food (Euripides, Ion 1170), and the souls of gods and men are claimed to be subject to sexual desire (fragment assigned by Nauck to Euripides' first Hippolytus). In contexts of intense emotion or crisis, feelings like love and hate, joy and grief, anger and shame are associated with the soul. “Nothing bites the soul of a man more than dishonor”, says Ajax in a fragment from a tragedy of unknown authorship, just before he commits suicide (Nauck, TGF, Adesp. fr. 110). Oedipus says that his soul laments the misery of his city and its inhabitants (Oedipus Tyrannus 64). Moreover, the soul is also importantly connected with boldness and courage, especially in battle. Courageous people are said, for instance in Herodotus and Thucydides, to have enduring or strong souls (cf. Laches' second definition of the virtue that is courage, in Plato's Laches 192c, as “strength of the soul”; also relevant is Pindar, Pythian 1.47-8, “standing in battle with an enduring soul”). In the Hippocratic text Airs, Waters, Places, the soul is thought of as the place of courage or, as the case may be, its opposite: in the case of lowland inhabitants, courage and endurance are not in their souls by nature, but must be instilled by law (ch. 23); similarly in benign climates, men are fleshy, ill-jointed, moist, without endurance and weak in soul (ch. 24).

    The connection between the soul and characteristics like boldness and courage in battle is plainly an aspect of the noteworthy fifth century development whereby the soul comes to be thought of as the source or bearer of moral qualities such as, for instance, temperance and justice. In Pericles' funeral oration that Thucydides includes in his account of the Peloponnesian War, he says that those who know most clearly the sweet and the terrible, and yet do not as a result turn away from danger, are rightly judged “strongest with regard to soul” (2.40.3). This text, and others like it (cf. also Herodotus 7.153), indicate a semantic extension whereby ‘soul’ comes to denote a person's moral character, often, but not always, with special regard to qualities such as endurance and courage. While the connection with courage is obvious in a number of texts, there are other texts in which the soul is the bearer of other admirable qualities, such as a Euripidean fragment that speaks of the desire characteristic of a soul that is just, temperate and good (fr. 388). Hippolytus, in Euripides' play named after him, describes himself as having a “virgin soul” (Hippolytus 1006), obviously to evoke his abstinence from sex. In Pindar's second Olympian, salvation is promised to those who “keep their souls from unjust acts” (2.68-70). The last two texts mentioned may well be influenced by Orphic and Pythagorean beliefs about the nature and immortality of the soul, to which we will turn in due course. But it would be a mistake to think that the moralization of the soul (i.e. its association with moral characteristics) wholly depended on Orphic and Pythagorean speculation. It would, at the very least, be to disregard the soul's connection with courage in poetry, the historians and in Hippocratic writings.

    To educated fifth century speakers of Greek, it would have been natural to think of qualities of soul as accounting for, and being manifested in, a person's morally significant behavior. Pericles acts courageously, and Hippolytus temperately (or chastely), because of the qualities of their souls from which such actions have a strong tendency to flow, and their actions express and make evident the courage, temperance and the like that characterize their souls. Once we are in a position properly to appreciate the connection between soul and moral character that must already have been felt to be natural at this stage, it should come as no surprise that the soul is also taken to be something that engages in activities like thinking and planning. If the soul is, in some sense, responsible for courageous acts, for instance, it is only to be expected that the soul also grasps what, in the circumstances, courage calls for, and how, at some suitable level of detail, the courageous act must be performed. Thus in a speech of Antiphon, the jury is urged to “take away from the accused the soul that planned the crime”, in striking juxtaposition of the ideas of life-soul (as in Homer) and of soul as responsible for practical thought. Somewhat similarly, in a Sophoclean fragment (fr. 97) someone says that “a kindly soul with just thoughts is a better inventor than any sophist” (cf. also Euripides, Orestes 1180). Moreover, it is easy to see that there are connections between familiar uses of ‘soul’ in emotional contexts and attributions to the soul of cognitive and intellectual activities and achievements. There is, after all, no clear-cut and manifest difference between, say, being in the emotional state of fear and having a terrifying thought or perception. When Oedipus' soul laments, or Ajax's soul is bitten by dishonor, emotion obviously goes hand in hand with cognition, and if it is natural to refer the one to the soul, there should be nothing puzzling about attributions to it of the other. Thus in non-philosophical Greek of the fifth century the soul is treated as the bearer of moral qualities, and also as responsible for practical thought and cognition. For further discussion, see this supplement on the contrary claims of Burnet 1916:

    Burnet on the Greek Notion of Soul

    From Homer to the end of the fifth century, the word ‘soul’ undergoes remarkable semantic expansion, in the course of which it comes to be natural not only to speak of soul as what distinguishes the living from the dead and (not the same distinction) the animate from the inanimate, but also to attribute to the soul a wide variety of activities and responses, cognitive as well as emotional, and to think of it as the bearer of such virtues as courage, temperance and justice. As a result of these developments, the language made available something that Homeric Greek lacked, a distinction between body and soul. Thus the Hippocratic author of Airs, Waters, Places writes of “endurance in body and soul” (ch. 23). Antiphon says of a defendant who is sure of his innocence that though his body may surrender, his soul saves him by its willingness to struggle, through knowledge of its innocence. For the guilty, on the other hand, even a strong body is to no avail, since his soul fails him, “believing the vengeance coming to him is for his impieties” (Antiphon 5). Homer, by contrast, knows and speaks of a whole lot of different sources and bearers of psychological predicates, but lacks a word to pick out the soul as a single item to which the predicates in question can, in some way or other, be referred and which can be distinguished from, and in suitable contexts contrasted with, the body (cf. Snell 1975, 18-25).

    2. Presocratic Thinking about the Soul

    The semantic expansion of ‘soul’ in the sixth and fifth centuries is reflected in the philosophical writings of the period. For instance, once it becomes natural to speak of soul as what distinguishes the animate from the inanimate, rather than as something that is restricted to humans, it becomes clear that the domain of ensouled things is not limited to animals, but includes plants as well. Empedocles and, apparently, Pythagoras (cf. Bremmer 1983, 125) thought that plants have souls, and that human souls, for instance, can come to animate plants. (Note, though, that Empedocles, in extant fragments, rarely uses the word ‘soul’, preferring the word daimôn.) Empedocles in fact claimed to have been a bush in a previous incarnation, as well as, among other things, a bird and a fish (fr. 117, Kirk, Raven & Schofield 1983 [in what follows KR&S], 417). Incidentally, Empedocles, like Anaxagoras and Democritus, referred to plants as animals, presumably precisely because they are alive (zên, from which the word for animal, zôon, derives) (for details, cf. Skemp 1947, 56). In this he was followed by Plato (Timaeus 77b), but emphatically not by Aristotle (De Anima 2.2, 413b1f).

    There is, moreover, some reason to think that philosophical activity, notably Pythagorean speculation (beginning around mid-sixth century), contributed to the semantic expansion of ‘soul’. As we have seen, at least some of the earliest extant texts that associate with the soul moral virtues other than courage suggest Pythagorean influence. It is, in fact, not difficult to see how Pythagoreanism may have furthered the expansion of ‘soul’. Pythagoreanism was concerned with, among other things, the continued existence of the person (or something suitably person-like) after death. It is obvious that against the Homeric background, ‘soul’ was an eminently appropriate word to use so as to denote the person, or quasi-person, that continued to exist after death; there was, after all, the familiar Homeric use of ‘soul’ as that which endures in the underworld after a person's death. To make the continued existence of this soul significant as the continued existence of the person in question, at least some of the states, activities, operations and the like that seemed crucial to the identity of the person had to be attributed to the soul (following Furley 1956, 11, who goes further than that, writing of the need for the soul “to include all the functions of personality”; cf. Barnes 1982, 103-6; Huffman forthcoming). This tendency is well illustrated by a story about Pythagoras, reported by Xenophanes (fr. 7, KR&S 260): “Once, they say, he was passing by when a puppy was being whipped, and he took pity and said: ‘Stop, do not beat it; it is the soul of a friend that I recognized when I heard its [i.e., the soul's!] voice.’” It is not just that the soul of Pythagoras' friend accounts for the character of the yelping (or whatever). Pythagoras is in fact quoted as saying that it is his friend's soul that is doing the yelping!

    Heraclitus (fl. around 500 BC), who repeatedly mentions Pythagoras, attributes wisdom to the soul provided that it is in the right state or condition: “a dry soul”, he claims, “is wisest and best” (fr. 118, KR&S 230). He may have been the first thinker to articulate a connection between soul and motor functions. “A man when he is drunk”, Heraclitus remarks, “is led by an unfledged boy, stumbling and not knowing where he goes, having his soul moist” (fr. 117, KR&S 231). On the most plausible construal of Heraclitus' sentence, he is saying that the drunken person stumbles because his perceptual abilities have been impaired, and this impairment is due to moistness of soul (Schofield 1991, 22). Like many (or indeed all) sixth and fifth century thinkers who expressed views on the nature or constitution of the soul, Heraclitus thought that the soul was bodily, but composed of an unusually fine or rare kind of matter, e.g. air or fire. (A possible exception is the Pythagorean Philolaus, who may have held that the soul is an ‘attunement’ of the body; cf. Barnes 1982, 488-95, and Huffman.) The prevalence of the idea that the soul is bodily explains the absence of problems about the relation between soul and body. Soul and body were not thought to be radically different in kind; their difference seemed just to consist in a difference in degree of properties such as fineness and mobility.

    3. Plato's Theories of Soul

    The various developments that occurred in the sixth and fifth centuries in how Greeks thought and spoke of the soul resulted in a very complex notion that strikes one as remarkably close to conceptions of the soul that we find in fourth century philosophical theories, notably Plato's. There is thus some reason to think that the philosophical theories in question are best interpreted as working with, and on, the relatively non-theoretical notion of the soul that by the end of the fifth century has come to be embedded in ordinary language. In what follows our main concern will be to characterize some of the theories in question. But we should also attend, wherever this seems appropriate and helpful, to ways in which familiarity with the ordinary notion of the soul might enable us better to understand why a theory or an argument proceeds the way it does. In addition, we should note ways in which philosophical theories might seem to clarify and further articulate the ordinary notion. We begin with Plato, and with a question that is intimately tied up with the ordinary notion of the soul as it developed from the Homeric poems onwards, namely whether a person's soul does indeed survive the person's death.

    3.1 The Phaedo's Theory of Soul

    It is probably true that in mainstream fifth century Greek culture, belief in an afterlife of the soul was weak and unclear (Claus 1981, 68; Burnet 1916, 248-9). If so, it is fitting that Socrates' arguments for the immortality of the soul, most prominently in the Phaedo, are offered to interlocutors who, at the outset of the discussion, are by no means convinced of the idea. (In fact, in the Apology, 40c, Socrates himself is presented as being noncommittal about what happens to the soul at death, and even about whether it survives at all.) “Men find it very hard to believe”, Cebes says at Phaedo 70a, “what you said about the soul. They think that after it has left the body it no longer exists anywhere, but that it is destroyed and dissolved on the day the man dies.” This view is restated by Simmias (at 77b) as the opinion of the majority (cf. 80d); note that the view includes the idea that the soul is a material thing, and is destroyed by being dispersed, “like breath or smoke” (70a). Glaucon, in the last book of the Republic (608d), is taken aback by Socrates' question,

    “Haven't you realized that our soul is immortal and never destroyed?”
    He looked at me with wonder and said: “No, by god, I haven't. Are you really in a position to assert that?”

    Moreover, apart from the question of immortality or otherwise, there is the further question whether the soul, if it does have some form of existence after the person has died, “still possesses some power and wisdom” (Phaedo, 70b; cf. 76c). Answering both questions, Socrates says not only that the soul is immortal, but also that it contemplates truths after its separation from the body at the time of death. Needless to say, none of the four main lines of argument that Socrates avails himself of succeeds in establishing the immortality of the soul, or in demonstrating that disembodied souls enjoy lives of thought and intelligence. The arguments have been discussed in some detail, for instance in Bostock 1986, and for our purposes there is no need to state and analyze them systematically. It will suffice to comment selectively on aspects of the arguments that bear directly on Plato's conception of the soul. The argument that sheds most light on what Plato takes the nature of the soul to be is the affinity argument (78b-80b). This argument confronts head-on the widespread worry that the soul, at or soon after death, is destroyed by being dispersed. It begins by distinguishing between two kinds of things: on the one hand, things that are perceptible, composed of parts, and subject to dissolution and destruction; on the other hand, things that are not perceptible, but intelligible (grasped by thought), not composed of parts, and exempt from dissolution and destruction. These two categories are obviously mutually exclusive. It is not clear whether or not they are meant to be exhaustive. Moreover, the category of imperishable, intelligible being is exemplified, but not, it seems, exhausted, by Platonic forms such as equality, beauty and the like (contra Bostock 1986, 118). Intelligible being evidently includes what Socrates calls the divine, whose nature it is to rule and to lead (80a), and there is no indication that the forms exhaust the divine, or even include the divine, so understood. Thus the argument leaves room for the idea that souls are not forms, but are nevertheless intelligible, partless and imperishable (contra Robinson 1995, 29). In fact, in framing the argument in the way he does Plato furnishes the conceptual framework needed for saying that body and soul differ in kind, the one being perceptible and perishable, the other being intelligible and exempt from destruction. However, the argument does not support such a strong conclusion, and Socrates is aware of this.

    What he does, in fact, conclude is that the soul is most like, and most akin to, intelligible being, and that the body is most like perceptible and perishable being. To say this is plainly neither to assert nor to imply (as Robinson 1995, 30, appears to think) that soul in some way or other falls short of intelligible, imperishable being, any more than it is to assert or imply that body in some way or other falls short of, or rather rises above, perceptible, perishable being. The argument leaves it open whether soul is a perfectly respectable member of intelligible reality, the way human bodies are perfectly respectable members of perceptible reality, or whether, alternatively, soul has some intermediate status in between intelligible and perceptible being, rising above the latter, but merely approximating to the former. Socrates does seem to take his conclusion to imply, or at least strongly suggest, that it is natural for the soul either “to be altogether indissoluble, or nearly so”, but, in any case, that the soul is less subject to dissolution and destruction than the body, rather than, as the popular view has it, more so. If this position can be established, Socrates is in a position to refute the popular view that the soul, being composed of ethereal stuff, is more liable to dispersion and destruction than the body. However, as Cebes points out (88b), unless Socrates can establish that the soul is altogether exempt from destruction, confidence of survival in the face of death is misplaced. Socrates' soul may be a great deal more durable than his body, but as long as it is not truly imperishable, there can be no guarantee that it will survive Socrates' impending death. For it might have experienced any number of incarnations already, and the current one might be its last. So Socrates launches his most elaborate and final argument for the immortality of the soul, which concludes that since life belongs to soul essentially, the soul must be deathless — that is, immortal.

    The affinity argument is supposed to show not only that the soul is most like intelligible, imperishable being, but also that it is most akin to it. Socrates argues that the soul is like intelligible being on the grounds that it is not visible and, in general, not perceptible (anyhow to humans, as Cebes adds at 79b), and that it shares its natural function with the divine, namely to rule and lead (the body in the one case, mortals in the other). There is a separate argument for the kinship of the soul with intelligible being. When the soul makes use of the senses and attends to perceptibles, “it strays and is confused and dizzy, as if it were drunk” (79c). By contrast, when it remains “itself by itself” and investigates intelligibles, its straying comes to an end, and it achieves stability and wisdom. It is not just that the soul is in one state or another depending on which kind of object it is attending to, in such a way that its state somehow corresponds to the character of the object attended to. That would not by itself show that the soul is more akin to the one domain rather than the other (this is the point of Bostock's criticism, Bostock 1986, 119). To understand the argument properly, it is crucial to note that when the soul attends to perceptibles, it is negatively affected in such a way that its functioning is at least temporarily reduced or impaired (“dizzy, as if drunk”), whereas there is no such interference when it attends to intelligibles (cf. Socrates' fear, at 99e, that by studying things by way of the senses he might blind his soul). The claim that the soul is akin to intelligible reality thus rests, at least in part, on the view that intelligible reality is especially suited to the soul, as providing it with a domain of objects in relation to which, and only in relation to which, it can function without inhibition and interference and fully in accordance with its own nature, so as to achieve its most completely developed and optimal state, wisdom.

    It hardly needs pointing out, then, that the soul, as Plato conceives of it in the Phaedo, is crucially characterized by cognitive and intellectual features: it is something that reasons, more or less well depending on the extent to which it is disturbed or distracted by the body and the senses; something that regulates and controls the body and its desires and affections, “especially if it is a wise soul” (94b), presumably in a way that involves, and renders effective, judgments about what it is best to do, and how it is best to behave; and something that has, as the kind of adornment that is truly appropriate to it, virtues such as temperance, justice and courage (114e f.). However, it should be clear that the soul, as it is conceived of here, is not simply the mind, as we conceive of it. It is both broader and narrower than that. It is broader in that Plato evidently retains the traditional idea of soul as distinguishing the animate from the inanimate. Two of the four main lines of argument for the immortality of the soul rely not on cognitive or indeed specifically psychological features of the soul, but simply on the familiar connection between soul and life. According to the cyclical argument (70c-72d), being alive in general is preceded by, just as it precedes, being dead. Socrates takes this to show that a creature's death involves the continued existence of the soul in question, which persists through a period of separation from body, and then returns to animate another body in a change which is the counterpart of the previous change, dying. According to the last line of argument that Socrates offers in the Phaedo, the soul is immortal because it has life essentially, the way fire has heat essentially. It is plain that both of these arguments apply to the souls of all living things, including plants (cf. 70d, 71d). And in the final argument, Socrates explicitly appeals to the idea that it is the soul that animates the body of a living thing (105c):

    What is it that, when present in a body, makes it living? — A soul.

    Now, as we have seen in some detail, the Greek notion of soul included the idea of soul as animating body probably as early as the sixth century, when Thales attributed soul to magnets. Connections between the soul and morally significant characteristics such as courage, temperance and justice, and with cognitive and intellectual functions, notably with planning and practical thought, are firmly established in fifth century Greek usage. But it is obviously far from clear whether the ordinary notion of soul, as it develops from the Homeric poems down to the end of the fifth century, is a well-formed, coherent notion, one that can suitably support the very prominent role that Plato assigns to the soul, in the Phaedo as well as in other dialogues. Perhaps most pressingly, it is far from clear whether what distinguishes the animate from the inanimate is the very thing that, in the case of some animate organisms, is responsible for cognitive functions such as sense-perception and thought, and that, specifically in the case of human beings, is the bearer of moral qualities such as justice, courage and the like. The question is neither explicitly raised nor, of course, resolved in the Phaedo; but a passage in the Republic (352d-354a), with which we will be concerned in section 3.2, suggests that Plato took the ordinary notion of soul, in all its richness and bewildering complexity, to be well-formed and coherent, and to be capable of supporting the requirements of his own theory.

    Given the idea that soul is the distinguishing mark of all living things, including plants, the Greek notion of soul is, as we have seen already, broader than our concept of mind. For it is at least conceivable, and probably true as a matter of fact, that there are living (hence ensouled) organisms without minds, without, that is to say, desire and cognition by sense or intellect. (Plato appears to think that plants do have minds in this sense, because he takes them to exhibit desire and sense-perception (Timaeus 77b), but that is presumably supposed to be a matter of empirical fact or inference, rather than simply a consequence of the fact that plants have souls.)

    In another way, the conception of soul that is in evidence in the Phaedo is significantly narrower than our concept of mind, in that the soul, as conceived of in this particular dialogue, is not, in fact, responsible, or directly responsible, for all of a person's mental or psychological activities and responses, but only for a rather severely limited subset of them. Socrates attributes a large variety of mental states (etc.) not to the soul, but to the (animate) body, such as, for instance, beliefs and pleasures (83d), and desires and fears (94d). At the same time, the soul is not narrowly intellectual: it too has desires (81d), even passionate ones (such as the nonphilosophical soul's love [erôs] of the corporeal, 80b), and pleasures as well, such as the pleasures of learning (114e). Moreover, the soul's functions are, as we have seen already, not restricted to grasping and appreciating truth, but prominently include regulating and controlling the body and its affections (such as beliefs and pleasures, desires and fears), no doubt in light of suitable judgments, arrived at, or anyhow supported and controlled, by reasoning. The soul of the Phaedo in fact seems to be precisely what in Republic 4 is identified as just one part of the soul, namely reason, whereas the functions of the lower parts, appetite and spirit, are assigned, in the psychological framework of the Phaedo, to the animate body. And just as the functions of reason (in the Republic) and of the soul (in the Phaedo) are not restricted to cognition, but include desire and emotion, such as desire for and pleasure in learning, so the functions of non-rational soul (in the Republic) and of the body (in the Phaedo) are not restricted to desire and emotion, but include cognition, such as beliefs (presumably) about objects of desire, ‘descriptive’ or (rather) non-evaluative (“there's food over there”) as well as (contra Lovibond 1991, 49) evaluative (“this drink is delightful”) (cf. Phaedo 83d).

    One somewhat surprising, and perhaps puzzling, feature of the Phaedo framework is this. On the one hand, Socrates evidently takes the soul to be in some way responsible for the life of any living organism, and hence presumably for all the various activities (etc.) that constitute, or are crucially involved in, any organism's life. On the other hand, he also takes it that there is a restricted class of activities that the soul is responsible for in some special way, such that it is not actually the case that the soul is responsible in this special way for all of the relevant activities that living organisms engage in. Thus, given the idea that the soul is responsible, in some way or other, for all the life of any living organism, one would certainly expect it to be responsible, in some way or other, for (say) the desires, emotions and beliefs of organisms whose lives include such psychological states — and not just for some restricted subset of these desires, emotions and beliefs, but in fact for all of them. However, Socrates' attribution to the soul of all and only desires, emotions and beliefs of reason (to use the Republic framework) is actually quite compatible with the view that the soul is responsible for all the life-activities organisms engage in, including, of course, the desires (etc.) of what in the Republic framework is the non-rational soul. What Socrates needs is something that can certainly be supplied, some suitable articulation of the different ways in which the soul can be said to be responsible for relevant activities of a living organism. One such way is that to be capable of engaging in the activity in question at all, an organism has to be ensouled, perhaps ensouled in a certain way (for instance, in the way animals are rather than in the way plants are). Another (stronger) way in which the soul can be responsible for an activity is directly: rather than being the thing in virtue of which the organism can do or undergo something or other (for instance, becoming thirsty and forming the desire to drink on that basis), the soul can also perform activities in its own right (for instance, contemplating mathematical truths). So, to restate somewhat more clearly: the Phaedo's conception of soul is narrower than our concept of mind in the following way. The range of activities (etc.) that the soul is directly responsible for, and which may be described as activities of the soul strictly speaking, is significantly narrower than the range of mental activities. It does not include all of a person's desires, nor need it include all emotional responses, or even all beliefs. One plainly could not have (for instance) ‘bodily’ desires such as hunger and thirst without being ensouled, but that does not mean that it must be the soul itself that forms or sustains such desires.

    Once we properly understand the Phaedo's theory of soul, then, we are in a position to see that it offers a psychological framework that is coherent, though far from fully articulated. But we should also note that the theory is somewhat unsatisfactory, in that it appears rather strikingly to fail to do justice to the unity of the mind. The various activities (etc.) that we characterize as mental or psychological, such as (most importantly) desire and cognition, seem to be, or manifest themselves to us as being, the activities of a single integrated subject; they do not (ordinarily) appear to belong to a plurality of distinct items that operate more or less separately from one another. When Socrates' contemplation of mathematical truths is disrupted by an intense desire for food, it does not seem to be the case that it is one thing (say, his soul) that has been doing the contemplating and another thing (say, his body) that now wants to get something to eat. It is rather that both contemplation and desire to eat seem to belong to one integrated subject, regardless of whether we wish to say that the subject in question is Socrates' mind, or whether we prefer to say that it is Socrates insofar as he has a mind (or something like that). As things are, the psychological theory of the Phaedo assigns Socrates' contemplation directly to his soul, but leaves his desire for food curiously remote from it, apparently taking ‘bodily’ desire (for instance) to be related to the soul in much the same way in which the operations involved in (say) metabolism and growth are so related. (Those too take place only because his body is ensouled.) It is plausible, though not certain, that Plato felt the force of this problem. It is, in any case, resolved by the new theory of soul that the Republic presents.

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    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

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    Ancient Theories of the Soul continued.

    3.2 The Republic's Theory of Soul

    The Phaedo was also known to ancient readers as Plato's On the Soul, whereas the Republic has On Justice as an alternative ancient title. Plato, however, conceives of justice as the excellent state of the soul, and so it is not surprising that the Republic sheds a great deal of light on Plato's conception of the soul. One way in which it does so is by explicitly integrating a number of central features of the ordinary notion of soul, features which, in the Phaedo, coexist somewhat uneasily: namely, responsibility for the life of an organism (that is, in the human case, responsibility for its being and remaining alive as a human being), for cognitive and (especially) intellectual functions, and for moral virtues such as courage and justice. Towards the end of Republic 1, Socrates offers Thrasymachus an elaborate argument to the conclusion that “injustice is never more profitable than justice” (354a). If we set aside, as irrelevant to the dialectical context, the possibility that injustice and justice are equally profitable, it is clear that the conclusion here is equivalent to the position that the Republic is designed to establish, in response to Glaucon's request, at the beginning of Book 2, to be convinced by Socrates “that it is better in every way to be just than to be unjust” (357a). The argument at the end of Book 1 proceeds by attempting to prove an interim conclusion that is unnecessarily strong, namely that the just person is happy, whereas the unjust person is wretched. To establish the desired conclusion, it is enough to prove that the just person is always happier than the unjust person, which, unlike the unnecessarily strong interim conclusion, is compatible with the view that justice is not sufficient for (fully completed) happiness, since that requires suitable external circumstances in addition to justice. Nothing in Socrates' long answer to Glaucon (and Adeimantus) commits him to the view that justice is sufficient for (complete) happiness (cf. Irwin 1999). However, that view is not implied by the conception of the soul that Socrates relies on in this (Book 1) argument. Moreover, nothing in the Republic contradicts or modifies this conception of the soul (on the contrary: cf. 445a9f., 609b f.), and so there is no reason not to take it seriously as a contribution to Plato's on-going reflection on the soul, even though the argument that surrounds it is designed to support a conclusion that Socrates subsequently succeeds in avoiding.

    The argument begins with the premise that things perform their function well if they have the virtue appropriate to them, and badly if they have the relevant vice (353c). It then attributes to the soul the function of “caring for things, ruling and deliberating (and all the things of this kind)”, and adds that living is also part of the function of soul (353d). This yields an interim conclusion, that a good soul cares, rules, deliberates (etc.) and lives well, whereas a bad soul does these things badly. A third premise is that justice is the virtue appropriate to the soul, injustice being its vice. Hence another interim conclusion: a just soul lives well; an unjust one, badly. But living well, says the next premise, is being happy (and living badly is being wretched). And so Socrates can draw the interim conclusion that we have encountered already, which is that the just person (the person, that is, whose soul is just) is happy, whereas the person whose soul is unjust is wretched.

    We make nonsense of the argument if we suppose (with Robinson 1995, 36) that when Socrates introduces living as part of the function of soul, he has being alive in mind. The idea of being good (or bad) at being alive is, obviously, very odd, as is the idea of being alive well or badly. But there is no need to suppose that such ideas are involved here, or that Socrates passes from one sense of ‘living’ [to zên] to another. It is, after all, open to us to interpret what Socrates is saying in terms of a conception that integrates the things that Socrates attributes to the soul as functions, or as parts or aspects of its function, namely in terms of the conception of living a life, and not just any kind of life, but a distinctively human one. Caring for the right sorts of things in the right way, ruling or regulating oneself and (when appropriate) others, and deliberating about how to act are not just necessary, but central aspects of living a human life, and all of these things can be done well or badly. Depending on the condition of their soul, a person can be better or worse at doing these things. The just person, whose soul is in the best condition, is truly excellent at living a human life, in that they are excellent at doing the various things that are importantly involved in leading a distinctively human life. If this is along the right lines, we might be in a position to see Plato's answer to the question how it can be that one thing, the soul, accounts for the life of an organism as well as for its cognitive and intellectual functions, and is also the bearer of virtues or excellences. The answer suggested by the Book 1 argument is this. The way in which the human soul accounts for the life of a human organism is by accounting for the distinctively human life that the individual in question leads. But to account for such a life, it must also account for the cognitive and intellectual functions which guide and shape such a life. Moreover, the dramatic differences in how good people are at leading lives, and relatedly the dramatic differences in how well they exercise their cognitive and intellectual functions, are due to differences in the conditions of their souls, namely the presence or absence of the virtues of justice, wisdom, courage and temperance. This answer significantly clarifies (the relevant aspects of) the ordinary Greek notion of soul (see section 1).

    The Republic also puts forward a new theory of soul, which involves the claim that the embodied human soul has (at least) three parts or aspects, namely reason, spirit and appetite. The argument for this claim is presented in Book 4, and proceeds in roughly the following way. Socrates begins by enunciating a principle to the effect that opposite actions, affections and states cannot be assigned to one thing in respect of the same part of it, in relation to the same object and at the same time. It is then agreed that desiring and being averse are opposites, and hence that desiring to do something and being averse to doing that same thing are opposites in relation to the same object. But it does frequently happen, Socrates points out and Glaucon agrees, that the soul desires to do something and at the same time is averse to doing that same thing. This happens, for instance, when a person is thirsty and on that basis wants to drink, but at the same time wishes not to drink, on the basis of some calculation or deliberation, and in fact succeeds in refraining from drinking, thirsty though they are. It follows from the premises stated that the human soul includes at least two distinct subjects, so that one opposite (the desire to drink) can be assigned to one of them and the other (the aversion to drinking) can be assigned to the other. Taking himself to have identified reason and appetite as distinct parts of the soul, Socrates draws attention to other kinds of conflict between desires, which are meant to bring to light spirit, the third part of the soul.

    The Republic contains a great deal of information that we can rely on in characterizing the three parts of the soul that Socrates introduces, information that can be found not only in Book 4 itself, but also (among other places) in the catalogue of corrupt forms of city and soul in Books 8 and 9. Here is an outline of what emerges. Reason is the part of the soul that is, of its own nature, attached to knowledge and truth. It is also, however, concerned to guide and regulate the life that it is, or anyhow should be, in charge of, ideally in a way that is informed by wisdom and that takes into consideration the concerns both of each of the three parts separately and of the soul as a whole (442c); these concerns must be supposed to include a person's bodily needs, presumably via the concerns of appetite. The natural attachment of spirit is to honor and, more generally, to recognition and esteem by others (581a). As a motivating force it generally accounts for self-assertion and ambition. When its desires are frustrated, it gives rise to emotional responses such as anger and indignation, and to behavior that expresses and naturally flows from such responses. Socrates takes spirit to be a natural ally of reason, at least part of its function being to support reason in such conflicts as may arise between it and appetite (440ef, 442ab). To assign it this function is neither to say nor to imply that spirit cannot, in the case of a corrupt and de-natured soul, turn against reason, even if well brought-up individuals like Glaucon are not familiar with such corruption either in their own case or in the case of others (440b). (Pace Robinson 1995, 45, who thinks Socrates is contradicting himself here.) Appetite is primarily concerned with food, drink and sex (439d, 580e). It gives rise to desires for these and other such things which in each case are based, simply and immediately, on the thought that obtaining the relevant object of desire is, or would be, pleasant. Socrates also calls appetite the money-loving part, because, in the case of mature human beings at least, appetite also tends to be strongly attached to money, given that it is most of all by means of money that its primary desires are fulfilled (580e-581a). The idea must be that given suitable habituation and acculturation in the context of a life lived in human society, appetite tends to become attached to money in such a way that it begins to give rise to desires for money which in each case are based, simply and immediately, on the thought that obtaining money is, or would be, pleasant; and this idea is natural and plausible enough. (Irwin 1995 & Price 1995, 57-67, offer an alternative and incompatible interpretation.)

    Viewed from the perspective of the theory of soul presented in the Phaedo, the Republic theory involves not so much a division of soul as an integration into soul of mental or psychological functions that had been assigned, somewhat problematically, to the body. In both dialogues, Socrates appeals to the same Odyssey passage (Od. 20.17-18 at Phaedo 94d, Od. 20.17 at Republic 4, 441b), in which Odysseus prevails over his own anger: in the Phaedo, to exemplify a conflict between soul and body; in the Republic, to exemplify a conflict between two parts or aspects of the soul, reason and spirit. What the Republic offers is a theory of soul which, among other things, allows attribution of (in principle) all mental or psychological functions to a single subject, the soul. The theory thus respects the unity of the mind, in a way that the Phaedo theory does not. Moreover, the Republic theory also offers an attractive and well-supported articulation of desire into different kinds, which has profound implications both for what it is to have one's soul (or mind) in optimal condition and for how it is that this condition is best brought about. (To see that Plato is acutely aware of these implications, one only needs to look at what the Republic has to say about virtue and education.) However, it may be worth insisting once more that we should not disregard the fact that the conception of the soul that features in the Republic is broader than our concept of mind, in that it continues to be part of this conception that it is soul that accounts for the life of the relevant ensouled organism. But if it is soul that accounts for the life of, say, human organisms, there must be some sense in which the human soul accounts not only for mental functions like thought and desire, but also for other vital functions such as the activities and operations of the nutritive and reproductive systems. To the extent that it leaves unclear how exactly it is that the soul is related to a broad range of activities (etc.) that are crucially involved in the lives of ensouled organisms, Plato's theory of the soul, in the Republic and beyond, remains incompletely developed. It is, of course, not surprising that the Republic does not confront the question how it is that the soul is related to life-functions that, as Aristotle recognizes (Nicomachean Ethics 1.13, 1102b11-2), are irrelevant to the ethical and political concerns of the Republic. However, context and subject matter impose no such constraints on the ‘plausible myth’ of the Timaeus, and also that dialogue, in presenting a somewhat revised version of the Republic's account (Tim. 69c ff.), fails to address the question how the soul is related to non-mental vital functions.

    4. Aristotle's Theory of Soul

    Aristotle's theory, as it is presented primarily in the De Anima (for a complete account, see Aristotle's Psychology), comes very close to providing a comprehensive, fully developed account of the soul in all its aspects and functions, an account that articulates the ways in which all of the vital functions of all animate organisms are related to the soul. In doing so, the theory comes very close to offering a comprehensive answer to a question that arises from the ordinary Greek notion of soul, namely how precisely it is that the soul, which is agreed to be in some way or other responsible for a variety of things living creatures (especially humans) do and experience, also is the distinguishing mark of the animate. According to Aristotle's theory, a soul is a particular kind of nature, a principle that accounts for change and rest in the particular case of living bodies, i.e. plants, nonhuman animals and human beings. The relation between soul and body, on Aristotle's view, is also an instance of the more general relation between form and matter: thus an ensouled, living body is a particular kind of in-formed matter. Slightly simplifying things by limiting ourselves to the sublunary world (cf. De Anima 2.2, 413a32; 2.3, 415a9), we can describe the theory as furnishing a unified explanatory framework within which all vital functions alike, from metabolism to reasoning, are treated as functions performed by natural organisms of suitable structure and complexity. The soul of an animate organism, in this framework, is nothing other than its system of active abilities to perform the vital functions that organisms of its kind naturally perform, so that when an organism engages in the relevant activities (e.g., nutrition, movement or thought) it does so in virtue of the system of abilities that is its soul.

    Given that the soul is, according to Aristotle's theory, a system of abilities possessed and manifested by animate bodies of suitable structure, it is clear that the soul is, according to Aristotle, not itself a body or a corporeal thing. Thus Aristotle agrees with the Phaedo's claim that souls are very different from bodies. Moreover, Aristotle seems to think that all the abilities that are constitutive of the souls of plants, beasts and humans are such that their exercise involves and requires bodily parts and organs. This is obviously so with, for instance, the abilities for movement in respect of place (e.g., by walking or flying), and for sense-perception, which requires sense-organs. Aristotle does not, however, think that there is an organ of thought, and so he also does not think that the exercise of the ability to think involves the use of a bodily part or organ that exists specifically for this use. Nevertheless, he does seem to take the view that the activity of the human intellect always involves some activity of the perceptual apparatus, and hence requires the presence, and proper arrangement, of suitable bodily parts and organs; for he seems to think that sensory impressions [phantasmata] are somehow involved in every occurrent act of thought, at least as far as human beings are concerned (De Anima 3.7, 431a14-7; 3.8, 432a7-10; cf. De Memoria 1, 449b31ff.). If so, Aristotle in fact seems to be committed to the view that, contrary to the Platonic position, even human souls are not capable of existence and (perhaps as importantly) activity apart from the body (cf. De Anima 1.1, 403a3-25, esp. 5-16).

    It is noteworthy that Aristotle's theory does not mark off those vital functions that are mental by relating them to the soul in some special way that differs from and goes beyond the way in which vital functions in general are so related. It is certainly not part of Aristotle's theory that the soul is specially and directly responsible for mental functions by performing them on its own, whereas it is less directly responsible for the performance by the living organism of other vital functions such as growth. As this aspect of his theory suggests, Aristotle is confident that once one has a proper understanding of how to explain natural phenomena in general, there is no reason to suppose that mental functions like perception, desire and at least some forms of thinking cannot be explained simply by appealing to the principles in terms of which natural phenomena in general are properly understood and explained (cf. Frede 1992, 97).

    It might be thought that since Aristotle's theory treats mental functions and other vital functions exactly alike, it obscures a crucial distinction. This worry, however, turns out to be unjustified. The theory treats mental and other vital functions alike only in that it views both kinds of functions as performed by natural organisms of the right kind of structure and complexity. Viewing mental and other vital functions in this way is perfectly compatible with introducing a distinction between mental and other functions if concerns of some kind or other call for such a distinction. Aristotle is perfectly capable, for instance, of setting aside non-mental vital functions as irrelevant for the purposes of practical philosophy (NE 1.13, 1102b11-12).

    5. Hellenistic Theories of Soul

    Coming from the theories of Plato and Aristotle, the first thing that might strike us about the theories of soul adopted by the two dominant Hellenistic schools, Epicurus' Garden and the Stoa, is the doctrine, shared by both, that the soul is corporeal. A number of Stoic arguments for the claim that the soul is a body have come down to us (see Annas 1992, 39-41). The best one of these is that the soul is a body because (roughly) only bodies affect one another, and soul and body do affect one another, for instance in cases of bodily damage and emotion. Epicurus employs the same argument in his Letter to Herodotus, which provides an outline of his physical doctrines (Long & Sedley 1987 [in what follows L&S] 14A7). In a way that reminds one of Presocratic theories, both Epicurus and the Stoics hold that the soul is a particularly fine kind of body, diffused all the way through the perceptible (flesh-and-blood) body of the animate organism. As if echoing the view of the soul that Simmias in the Phaedo presents as the majority view, Epicurus thinks that the soul is dispersed at death along with its constituent atoms, losing the powers that it has while it is contained by the body of the organism that it ensouls (L&S 14A6). The Stoics agree that the human soul is mortal, but they also take it that it can and does survive the person's death — that is, its separation from the perceptible body. Chrysippus apparently thought that the souls of wise persons persist (as fine, imperceptible corporeal structures) all the way to the next conflagration in the cosmic cycle, whereas the souls of other people last for some time, and then get dispersed (Diogenes Laertius 7.157; cf. L&S 53W). Thus Chrysippus can accept, at least for the souls of the wise, Socrates' claim in the Phaedo that the soul is “altogether indissoluble, or nearly so” (Phaedo 80b), even though he plainly cannot accept all of Socrates' argument for this claim.

    5.1 Epicurus' Theory of Soul

    Epicurus is an atomist, and in accordance with his atomism he takes the soul, like everything else that there is except for the void, to be ultimately composed of atoms. Our sources are somewhat unclear as to exactly which kinds of materials he took to be involved in the composition of soul. It is very probable, though, that in addition to some relatively familiar materials — such as fire-like and wind-like stuffs, or rather the atoms making up such stuffs — the soul, on Epicurus' view, also includes, in fact as a key ingredient, atoms of a nameless kind of substance, which is responsible for sense-perception. Thus it seems that while he thought he could explain phenomena such as the heat or warmth of a living organism, as well as its movement and rest, by appealing to relatively familiar materials and their relatively familiar properties, he did feel the need to introduce a mysterious additional kind of substance so as to be able to explain sense-perception, apparently on the grounds that “sense-perception is found in none of the named elements” (L&S 14C). It is worth noting that it is specifically with regard to sense-perception that Epicurus thinks the introduction of a further, nameless kind of substance is called for, rather than, for instance, with regard to intellectual cognition. What this suggests, and what in fact we have independent reason to think, is that on Epicurus' view, once one is in a position adequately to explain sense-perception, one will then also be in a position to work out an explanation of intellectual cognition, by appropriately extending the explanation of sense-perception. Let us consider briefly how such extension might work.

    Perceptual beliefs, like the belief that ‘there is a horse over there’, will be explained, in Epicurus' theory, in terms of sense-impressions and the application of concepts (‘preconceptions’; for discussion cf. Asmis 1999, 276-83), and concept-formation is in turn explained in terms of sense-impression and memory. According to Diogenes Laertius' summary (L&S 17E1-2), the Epicureans say that

    preconception is, as it were, cognition or correct belief or conception or universal ‘stored notion’ (i.e. memory), of that which has frequently become evident externally: e.g. ‘such-and-such a kind of thing is a man’. For as soon as the word ‘man’ is uttered, immediately its impression also comes to mind by means of preconception, as a result of antecedent sense-perceptions.

    Moreover, sense-impressions, interpreted and articulated in terms of concepts or preconceptions, yield experience concerning evident matters, which in turn forms the basis for conclusions about non-evident matters. For example, extensive experience can make clear to one not only that the human beings one has interacted with have a certain feature (say, rationality), but also (later Epicureans will say, probably somewhat developing Epicurus' position) that it is inconceivable that any human being could fail to have that feature (cf. L&S 18F4-5). And so, experience will not only make one expect, with a very great deal of confidence, that any human being one will ever encounter anywhere will be rational. Experience also, according to the Epicureans, supports the inference to, and hence justifies one in accepting, the (non-evident) conclusion that all human beings, everywhere and at all times, are rational (for detailed discussion, cf. Allen 2001, 194-241). This obviously is an extremely generous view of what experience, and ultimately sense-perception, can do! Once we recognize the enormously powerful and fundamental role Epicurus and his followers assign to sense-perception, we will not be surprised to see that they feel the need to include in the composition of the soul a very special kind of material that accounts specifically for sense-perception, but apparently do not think that, in addition to that, some further special material is needed to enable intellectual or rational activity.

    In the Epicurean tradition the word ‘soul’ is sometimes used in the broad traditional way, as what animates living things (e.g., Diogenes of Oenoanda, fr. 37 Smith), but the focus of interest, so far as the soul is concerned, is very much on the mental functions of cognition, emotion and desire. A view that is common in the tradition and that very probably goes back to the founder is that the soul is a composite of two parts, one rational, the other nonrational. The rational part, which Lucretius calls mind [animus], is the origin of emotion and impulse, and it is also where (no doubt among other operations) concepts are applied and beliefs formed, and where evidence is assessed and inferences are made. The nonrational part of the soul, which in Lucretius is somewhat confusingly called soul [anima], is responsible for receiving sense-impressions, all of which are true according to Epicurus. Error arises at a later stage, when sense-impressions are interpreted by the rational part of the soul, in a way that, as we have seen, crucially involves memory. Sense-perception, conceived of simply as the reception of sense-impressions by the nonrational soul, does not involve memory (cf. L&S 16B1). Since the formation and application of concepts requires memory, sense-perception, so conceived of, does not involve conceptualization, either. The nonrational part is also responsible for transmitting impulses originating from the rational part, as well as (presumably) for a wide variety of other vital functions. (When Epicurus distinguishes between pleasures and pains of the soul and those of the body, incidentally, the distinction he has in mind must be between the rational part of the soul on the one hand and the body animated by nonrational soul, on the other.)

    5.2 The Stoic Theory of Soul

    Stoic physics allows for three different kinds of pneuma (lit. ‘breath’), a breath-like material compound of two of the four Stoic elements, fire and air. The kinds of pneuma differ both in degree of tension that results from the expanding and contracting effects, respectively, of its two constituents, and in their consequent functionality. The lowest kind accounts for the cohesion and character of inanimate bodies (e.g., rocks); the intermediate kind, called natural pneuma, accounts for the vital functions characteristic of plant life; and the third kind is soul, which accounts for the reception and use of impressions (or representations) (phantasiai) and impulse (hormê: that which generates animal movement) or, to use alternative terminology, cognition and desire. Our evidence, which unfortunately is fragmentary and often unclear, suggests strongly that according to the Stoic theory, the body of an animal (human or non-human) contains pneuma of all the three kinds, with the lowest kind responsible for the cohesion and character of parts like teeth and bones, natural pneuma in charge of metabolism, growth and the like, and finally soul accounting for distinctively mental or psychological functions, crucially cognition, by sense and (in the case of humans) intellect, and desire (cf. Long 1999, 564, for discussion and references). If this is indeed the picture that the theory presents, the soul is no longer responsible for all vital functions, and for all aspects of life, but only for specifically mental or psychological functions. (Accordingly, the Stoics depart from the Platonic and Aristotelian view that plants are ensouled organisms.) At the same time, the Stoic theory does attempt to explain non-mental vital functions as well, in terms of the activity of ‘nature’, the intermediate kind of pneuma. In severing the deeply entrenched, Greek ordinary-language connection between soul and life in all its forms, the Stoic theory is taking an enormously momentous step, one that obviously restricts rather dramatically the proper subject matter of a theory of soul. In fact it is arguable that the Stoics, in limiting the functions of soul in the way they did, played an important role in a complicated history that resulted in the Cartesian conception of mind, according to which the mind plainly is not something that animates living bodies. This narrowing of the conception of soul is one of two aspects of the Stoic theory that, for our purposes, deserve particular notice.

    The second noteworthy aspect is the insistence of the Stoic theory that the mind of an adult human being is a single, partless item that is rational all the way down. According to the Stoic theory, there are eight parts of the soul, the ‘commanding faculty’ [hêgemonikon] or mind, the five senses, voice and (certain aspects of) reproduction. The mind, which is located at the heart, is a center that controls the other soul-parts as well as the body, and that receives and processes information supplied by the subordinate parts. The minds of non-human animals and of non-adult humans have faculties only of impression and impulse. Achieving adulthood, for humans, involves gaining assent and reason. Reason (it would seem) makes assent possible, in that it enables the subject to assent to or withhold assent from impressions, and it transforms mere impressions and mere impulses, such as other animals experience, into rational impressions and rational impulses. The rationality of an impression (for example, of a tree one sees before oneself) consists in its being articulated in terms of concepts, possession of which is constitutive of having reason; the rationality of an impulse consists in the fact that it is generated or constituted by a voluntary act of assent of the mind to a suitable practical (‘impulsive’) impression — the impression, for instance, that something within view would be nice to eat. Thus, depending on the type of impression assented to, assent generates or constitutes belief (or knowledge) concerning some matter of fact, or an impulse to act in some way or other.

    It is crucially important not to misunderstand these various faculties as parts or aspects of the mind, items that operate with some degree of autonomy from one another and can therefore conflict. On the Stoic theory, the faculties of the mind are simply things the mind can do. Moreover, it is a central part of the theory that, in the case of an adult human being, there is no such thing as an impulse without an act of assent of the mind to a corresponding practical impression. In a rational subject, the faculty of impulse depends on the faculty of assent, which, like all faculties of such a subject, is a rational faculty. This theory leaves no room for the Platonic conception that the souls of adult human beings contain non-rational parts which can, and frequently do, generate impulse and behavior independently of, and even contrary to, the designs and purposes of reason. Nor, relatedly, does it leave room for the shared Platonic and Aristotelian view that desire, even in the case of adult humans, comes in three forms, two of which are such that desires of these forms do not arise from, or depend on, activities of reason. The Stoic theory has the attractive consequence that each adult person is, through their own reasoned assent, unambiguously and equally responsible for all their voluntary behavior: there are no Platonic nonrational parts, or Platonic-Aristotelian nonrational desires, that could produce actions against one's own reason's helpless protestations. However, the theory needed to be defended both against rival philosophical theories and against pre-theoretical intuitions that militate in favor of these theories. One such intuition is that passion can, and frequently does, conflict with reason. To judge from a report by Plutarch, it appears that the Stoics were able to explain away this particular intuition, and also to disarm the argument for tripartition of the soul in Republic 4, which depends on the simultaneity of a desire for and an aversion to one and the same thing. According to Plutarch (L&S 65G1),

    Some people [the Stoics] say that passion is no different from reason, and that there is no dissension and conflict between the two, but a turning of the single reason in both directions, which we do not notice owing to the sharpness and speed of the change.

    Introducing the idea of unnoticed oscillation of a single, partless mind is highly ingenious and must have been dialectically effective at least to some extent. However, the theory of the soul that we find in classical Stoicism appears to be committed to the view that in the case of adult humans, there simply are no motivational factors that do not depend on reason and that can significantly affect, often for the worse, how a person behaves and how their life goes. It must have been difficult to defend this view against the Platonic-Aristotelian position. And so it is not surprising that in an environment in which interest in Plato's and Aristotle's writings was on the rise again, at least one prominent Stoic philosopher, Posidonius (first century B.C.), apparently gave up at least part of the classical Stoic theory. The evidence that we have is not easy to interpret, but it very much appears that Posidonius introduced into a basically Stoic psychological framework the idea that even the minds of adult humans include, to put things cautiously, motivationally relevant forces (of two kinds) that do not depend on assent or reason at all and that are not fully subject to rational control. (For detailed discussion, cf. Cooper 1998, 77-111.)

    6. Conclusion

    Ancient philosophy did not, of course, end with classical Stoicism, or indeed with the Hellenistic period, and neither did ancient theorizing about the soul. The revival of interest in the works of both Plato and Aristotle beginning in the second half of the second century B.C. prominently included renewed interest in Platonic and Aristotelian conceptions of the soul, sparking novel theoretical developments, such as, for instance, Plotinus' argument (directed in particular against the Stoics) that the soul could not be spatially extended, since no spatially extended item could account for the unity of the subject of sense-perception (see Emilsson 1991). Christian writers such as Clement of Alexandria and Gregory of Nyssa were heavily indebted to philosophical theories of soul, especially Platonic ones, but also introduced new concerns and interests of their own. Nevertheless, these and other post-classical developments in every case need to be interpreted within the framework and context furnished by the classical theories that we have been considering in some detail.


    A. Ancient Texts
    •Kirk, G. S., J. E. Raven & M. Schofield, (eds.), 1983, The Presocratic Philosophers, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. [=KR&S]
    •Cooper, J. M. & D. S. Hutchinson, (eds.), 1997, Plato: Complete Works, Indianapolis: Hackett.
    •Barnes, J., (ed.), 1984, The Complete Works of Aristotle, Princeton: Princeton University Press.
    •Long, A. A. & D. N. Sedley, (eds.), 1987, The Hellenistic Philosophers, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. [=L&S]
    •Smith, M. F., 1993, Diogenes of Oenoanda: The Epicurean Inscription, La Scuola di Epicuro, Suppl. 1, Naples: Bibliopolis.

    B. Ancient Theories of Soul (General)
    •Algra, K., J. Barnes, J. Mansfeld & M. Schofield, (eds.), 1999, The Cambridge History of Hellenistic Philosophy, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
    •Annas, J. E., 1992, Hellenistic Philosophy of Mind, Berkeley: University of California Press.
    •Cooper, J. M., 1999, Reason and Emotion, Princeton: Princeton University Press.
    •Everson, S., (ed.), 1991, Companions to Ancient Thought 2: Psychology, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
    •Lorenz, H., 2006, The Brute Within, Oxford: Oxford University Press.
    •Price, A. W., 1995, Mental Conflict, London: Routledge.

    C. The Greek Notion of Soul
    •Bremmer, J., 1983, The Early Greek Concept of the Soul, Princeton: Princeton University Press.
    •Burnet, J., 1916, “The Socratic doctrine of the soul”, Proceedings of the British Academy, 7: 235–59.
    •Claus, D., 1981, Toward the Soul, New Haven and London: Yale University Press.
    •Dodds, E. R., 1951, The Greeks and the Irrational, Berkeley: University of California Press.
    •Furley, D., 1956, “The early history of the concept of soul”, Bulletin of the Institute of Classical Studies, University of London, No. 3: 1–18.
    •Snell, B., 1975, Die Entdeckung des Geistes, Göttingen: Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht; translated as The Discovery of the Mind: The Greek Origins of European Thought, Oxford: Blackwell.
    •Solmsen, F., 1955, “Antecedents of Aristotle's Psychology and the Scale of Beings”, American Journal of Philology, 76: 148–64.
    •Sullivan, S. D., 1988, Psychological Activity in Homer, Ottawa: Carleton University Press.

    D. Presocratic Thinking about the Soul
    •Barnes, J., 1982, The Presocratic Philosophers, London: Routledge.
    •Huffman, C. A., 1999, “The Pythagorean Tradition”, in Long 1999: 66–87.
    •–––, forthcoming, “The Pythagorean Conception of the Soul from Pythagoras to Philoloaus”, in Body and Soul in Ancient Philosophy, D. Frede and B. Reis (eds.), Berlin: Walter de Gruyter.
    •Hussey, E., “Heraclitus”, in Long 1999: 88–112.
    •Kahn, C. H., 1979, The Art and Thought of Heraclitus, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
    •Laks, A., 1999, “Soul, sensation, and thought”, in Long 1999: 250–70.
    •Long, A. A., (ed.), 1999, The Cambridge Companion to Early Greek Philosophy, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
    •Schofield, M., 1991, “Heraclitus’ theory of soul and its antecedents”, in Everson 1991 (Bibliography/Section B): 13–34.
    •Skemp, J. B., 1947, “Plants in Plato's Timaeus”, Classical Quarterly, 41: 53–60.

    E. Plato's Theories of Soul
    •Bobonich, C., 2002, Plato's Utopia Recast: His Later Ethics and Politics, Oxford: Clarendon Press.
    •Bostock, D., 1986, Plato's Phaedo, Oxford: Clarendon Press.
    •Cooper, J. M., 1984, “Plato's Theory of Human Motivation”, History of Philosophy Quarterly, 1: 3–21, also in Cooper 1999 (Bibliography/Section B): 118–37.
    •Gill, C., 1985, “Plato and the Education of Character”, Archiv für Geschichte der Philosophie, 67: 1–26.
    •Irwin, T. H., 1995, Plato's Ethics, Oxford: Oxford University Press.
    •–––, 1999, “Republic 2: Questions about Justice” in Plato 2, G. Fine (ed.), Oxford: Oxford University Press.
    •Lorenz, H., 2008, “Plato on the Soul”, in The Oxford Handbook of Plato, G. Fine (ed.), Oxford: Oxford University Press.
    •Lovibond, S., 1991, “Plato's theory of mind”, in Everson 1991 (Bibliography/Section B): 35–55.
    •Robinson, T. M., 1995, Plato's Psychology, Toronto: University of Toronto Press.
    •Woods, M., 1987, “Plato's Division of the Soul”, Proceedings of the British Academy, 73: 23–47.

    F. Aristotle's Theory of Soul

    (cf. bibliography included in Christopher Shields's article on Aristotle's psychology)
    •Frede, M., 1992, “On Aristotle's Conception of the Soul”, in Nussbaum & Rorty 1992: 93–107.
    •Nussbaum, M. C. & A. O. Rorty, (eds.), 1992, Essays on Aristotle's De Anima, Oxford: Clarendon Press.

    G. Epicurus' Theory of Soul
    •Allen, J., 2001, Inference from Signs, Oxford: Clarendon Press.
    •Annas, J., 1991, “Epicurus’ philosophy of mind”, in Everson 1991 (Bibliography/Section B): 84–101.
    •–––, 1992, “The Epicureans”, in Annas 1992 (Bibliography/Section B): 123–99.
    •Asmis, E., 1999, “Epicurean Epistemology”, in Algra, Barnes, Mansfeld & Schofield 1999 (Bibliography/Section B): 260–94.
    •Everson, S., 1999, “Epicurus' psychology”, in Algra, Barnes, Mansfeld & Schofield 1999 (Bibliography/Section B): 542–59.
    •Kerferd, G., 1971, “Epicurus' doctrine of the soul”, Phronesis, 16: 80–96.
    •Konstan, D., 1973, Some Aspects of Epicurean Psychology, Leiden: Brill.
    •Sedley, D. N., 1998, Lucretius and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

    H. The Stoic Theory of Soul
    •Annas, J., 1992, “The Stoics”, in Annas 1992 (Bibliography/Section B): 37–120.
    •Cooper, J. M., 1998, “Posidonius on Emotions”, in The Emotions in Hellenistic Philosophy, Engberg-Pedersen, T. & J. Sihvola, (eds.), Dordrecht: Kluwer, also in Cooper 1999 (Bibliography/Section B): 449–84.
    •Long, A. A., 1999, “Stoic Psychology”, in K. Algra, J. Barnes, J. Mansfeld & M. Schofield 1999 (Bibliography/Section B) Cambridge: 560–84.

    I. Other Ancient Theories of Soul

    (cf. bibliography included in Lloyd Gerson's article on Plotinus)
    •Armstrong, A. H., (ed.), 1967, The Cambridge History of Later Greek and Early Medieval Philosophy, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
    •Emilsson, E. K., 1991, “Plotinus and soul-body dualism”, in Everson 1991 (Bibliography/Section 7.2): 148–65.
    •–––, 2007, Plotinus on Intellect, Oxford: Oxford University Press.


    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed May 22, 2013 12:50 pm

    This was a helluva terrific video!! But this sort of thing really isn't flashy or marketable -- compared to a lot of entertainment and sensational material. Doing the right thing should PAY!!! Doing the wrong thing should HURT!!! This solar system is SO screwed-up that I don't really know where to start. How do we make things better -- without making things worse?? Perhaps things will have to play-out and get really bad -- just to get everyone's attention. I guess I'm thinking in terms of documenting the actions of the bad-guys and bad-gals -- and then punishing them severely when things really go to hell. Some of my conceptualizations might have to wait several decades -- even if they make perfect sense. Plus, there may be MUCH better ideas in the pipeline. I Simply Wish for Things to Improve -- regardless of whose ideas get implemented -- or don't get implemented. Please listen to the 05-06-13 and 05-13-13 episodes of Sherry Shriner regarding St. Germain as being relevent to the "financial rulers of the world" topic. What Would the Ancient Egyptian Deity Say??

    I keep thinking that this whole world is being ripped-off -- or paying-off some ancient war-settlement -- or something secret. But really, most people have no idea that anything might be wrong, so who knows what we should do -- or not do?? I keep thinking about that scene in Contact (on S.R. Haddon's 'plane') where he tells Ellie that he has taken so much from the people of the world (or something to that effect). But what if the best way to manage humanity is a Cold and Calculating Rule by Secrecy, Deception, Warfare, and Exploitation?? I don't even like to think about such things -- but what if it takes Bad-Gods to rule Bad-People?? I wonder if my governance-idealism might be too good to work in this neck of the woods?! I'm presently thinking on such an abstract-level -- that I'm sort of living in a Nightmare--Dreamworld Existence. Anyway, sorry for the tangential-digression, but all of the above might have everything to do with why the bridges don't get fixed, etc, etc, etc.

    Perhaps it might be helpful to model Heaven on Earth -- Purgatory on Earth -- and Hell on Earth -- on an ongoing basis. How might we determine the difference between a Tough-Love God and a Sinister-Deceptive Alien??? How might we determine if they had a working-relationship, or not??? How might we determine how good or bad we all are on a soul-basis or reincarnational-basis?? How might we determine ANYTHING with any significant degree of certainty? I feel absolutely hamstrung with the Paralysis of Analysis -- yet the TRUTH is supposed to set us free -- and those who believe LIES will supposedly be damned. Should my realistic goal for this solar system be half-way between Heaven and Purgatory??? Does anyone have a clue why I asked that last question??? Please take another look at The Great Controversy by Ellen White -- The Gods of Eden by William Bramley -- Behold a Pale Horse by Bill Cooper -- Daniel by Desmond Ford -- Trumpet After Trumpet by Erwin Gane -- The Keys of This Blood by Malachi Martin -- and Rule by Secrecy by Jim Marrs. What's Wrong With This Picture???!!! Be warned -- this is a VERY tough study -- and I am asking VERY hard and unsettling questions (if you take me somewhat seriously, that is).

    What would a Nazi-Mason-Jesuit Judge-Banker-General-Agent-Attorney-Queen look-like and act-like??!! What if they were a Drac, Grey, or StarHuman??!! What if it takes someone like this to properly manage the insanity in this solar system??!! What if reality is stranger than ANY of us can handle??!! I think I'm trying to prepare all of us for this possibility. We shouldn't think we know it all -- EVER. I think that if I ever become that hypothetical Philosopher-Observer I will probably spend most of my time rocking back and forth in the fetal position (doing you know what) in that 600 square-foot Deep-Subsurface Lunar-Room with a Cray-Supercomputer!! I wish I were kidding -- but I think it really might be THAT bad. I honestly do. Please go the extra mile with me on this thread -- this website -- and on the original Project Avalon. This is a conditioning-process to help prepare us for who knows what??!! I don't think we have ANY idea of what's REALLY in our future. I will continue to be somewhat contrarian, aloof, non-responsive, and unfriendly with just about everyone (regarding just about everything) -- so don't take it personally. Is it possible to really examine the madness without becoming somewhat mad?? What's REALLY going-on with the MASSIVE bombardment of controversial and contradictory information. Are THEY trying to get us to stampede?? I am rather suspicious of most everyone and everything -- but not in a mean way -- if you know what I mean.

    Once again - I'd like to take a closer look at Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton. I feel quite close to them editorially - but I can't verify their sources or information. Some might think that they are out of date and obsolete - but the passage of time provides the opportunity to evaluate these people. I know who Bill Cooper is - but who is Commander X and Branton? Could they all be the same person? I will try to assemble links to their various videos and material - for quick reference. I have made it no secret that I am not happy with the church or the new age. I'm trying to find a Spiritual Switzerland somewhere between the two. Perhaps Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton can help me in my quest. I'm not pushing these sources - but they are the sort of thing I like to look at - which are not the old explanations - but yet which do not get into a lot of complex new age concepts and terminology. This sort of thing fits into my quest for a legitimate and reasonable solar system governmental system. Some of this may seem boring - but the overall picture which emerges is anything but boring. I've covered this territory before - but now I wish to take a second or third look at it. I keep saying this over and over - but just treat all of this fringe material as if it were science fiction - which might contain some elements of truth. Use it as a means to think in unconventional ways. But please don't take it too seriously - or get too upset by it. I'm probably preaching to the choir on this website - but one never knows who might be visiting.

    I think the insane asylums are going to be packed over the next few years. There is just too much conflicting and upsetting information available to the general public at this time. I support the freedom of speech - but I wish for a responsible and organized way to inform people regarding hidden things and forbidden knowledge. Perhaps this website can help to accomplish this goal. I just realized that I haven't been exposed to a lot of this material linked below. I will make going through all of this my highest priority. Believe it or not, I am attempting to be a Silent Partner of the PTB. I really am trying to imagine myself as being in the shoes of the individual portrayed in my avatar. I am speculating that someone similar to this, might be the chief administrator in this solar system - although there may very well be others above them. Again - a lot of this is speculation - with circumstantial evidence. Obviously - those who really know the full truth aren't holding press conferences to blurt out everything they know - and I can't say that I blame them...

    Bill Cooper:


    1. The Dawn of Man:

    2. Sun of God:

    3. Egyptian Magic:

    4. Osiris and Isis Part 1:

    5. Osiris and Isis Part 2:

    6. NWO and Freemasonry:

    7. Maitreya:

    8. Ecumenism:

    9. Initiation:

    10. Gnosticism:

    11. Assassins:

    12. Assassins and the Templars:

    13. End of the Templars:

    14. Skull and Bones:

    15. Roshaniya:

    16. Quotes by Freemasons:

    17. Sun Worship:

    18. Bibliography:

    19. Lucifer Worship:

    20. Convocation of the Rose Cross Order:

    21. William Morgan Interview (1 of 3):

    22. William Morgan Interview (2 of 3):

    23. William Morgan Interview (3 of 3):

    24. Jordan Maxwell Interview:

    25. Americas Assignment with Destiny (1 of 3):

    26. Americas Assignment with Destiny (2 of 3):

    27. Americas Assignment with Destiny (3 of 3):

    28. In the Coils of the Coming Conflict:

    29. Lucifer 2000:

    30. The Godmakers:

    31. UN Meditation Room:

    32. Mystery Expose:

    33. Aid and Abett Newsletter:

    34. Luxor: The Source of Light:

    35. Secret Societies and Vatican II:

    36. From Babylon to Christianity:

    37. Rose Cross College (1 of 3):

    38. Rose Cross College (2 of 3):

    39. Rose Cross College (3 of 3):

    40. Third Reich (part 1):

    41. Third Reich (part 2):

    42. Third Reich (part 3):

    43. Darkness:

    44. Behold a Pale Horse:

    45. Behold a Pale Horse (Audio Book):

    46. Lansing, Michigan Lecture:

    47. The Laws with Robert Ross:

    48. Las Vegas (MUFON) Lecture:

    49. Day of 9/11:

    50. 1992 CNN Interview:

    51. Esoteric Keys to the Bible:

    52. Return of the Christ:

    53. Bible Says -- Preacher Says:

    Commander X:

    Secret Underground Lecture:


    1. Wikipedia:

    2. The Dulce Book:

    3. The Omega Files:

    Also look for 1. The Coscon Files 2. Secrets of the Mojave 3. Fire from the Sky 4. The Underground Nazi Invasion of the United States.

    I am both for religion and against religion - which is why I chose the name orthodoxymoron. I keep thinking of myself as a renegade reformer of the Roman Catholic Church - rather than being an enemy of religion and an enemy of the Creator God of the Universe. I simply have issues with how business is being conducted in this solar system. I probably couldn't do any better if I had the chance, but I feel a responsibility to attempt to help to make things better - in my own way and in my own time. An Episcopalian rector once told me that I looked as though I was carrying the weight of the whole world - and that I looked as though I had lost my last friend. When I was 12 years old - a girl called me 'Droopy'. A Catholic Priest told me not to be so hard on myself. He was a very friendly and animated person. I'd like to know what became of him. I'm truly afraid to know my reincarnational history. Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton obviously came from a Christian background - but they obviously knew that something was very, very wrong with business as usual. I guess I'm using their material as a home-base of sorts - as a point of reference - as I'm exposed to more and more disorienting material. I keep wishing to attend some type of church - but so far, all I'm doing is listening to classical sacred music and Latin Masses, while I read the Four Gospels, and assorted theological materials. You can stop going to church - but don't stop studying theology. I continue to think that theology is central to disclosure. Even abraxasinas thought so!

    Who is the most knowledgeable person in the world regarding Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton? Who is their rightful heir? Who is continuing what they started? I think a lot of people have been influenced by them - but who has really focused on them? Who has imitated their style and methodology? I'm going to focus on them for the next few weeks anyway. I think there are some Jesuits and Alphabet Agents who probably are the most knowledgeable people in the world regarding Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton - and they probably know a lot of damning things about them as well - but these people will probably always remain hidden from the general public. I would LOVE to see the Vatican, NSA, FBI, and CIA files on Bill Cooper, Commander X, and Branton!!!!! Can you imagine?????

    I continue to be skeptical regarding all of the naturally occurring Earth changes, Sun changes, Planet X induced changes, Crossing the Galactic Plane induced changes, etc. I suspect deliberate extermination events disguised as any or all of the above. I continue to think that we are being messed with in the worst way by those who hate us to the core. Is all of this cr@p a continuing human vs human civil war, which might include human/reptile hybrids masquerading as aliens? If any of you human/reptile super-soldiers are reading this - can't we just call the whole damn thing off - and resolve whatever issues exist - in a rational and non-violent manner? Perhaps some of you should consider changing sides. I stand by everything I've said on Avalon 1 and Mists of Avalon. I suspect a hybridization program gone bad. I also suspect an advanced technology program gone bad. But why does the madness have to continue? In 1994 or 1995 Alex Collier stated that the regressive aliens were a heck of a lot more responsible than our leaders (or something to that effect). What the heck is going on? Did some of the hybrids rebel against the Queen of Heaven? Are we dealing with several factions of escaped hybrids - throughout the solar system? Why can't we arrive at some sort of a non-violent solution? Why can't this solar system be administered in a rational, organized, and responsible manner - which guarantees responsible freedom for all races? I haven't decided whether there is a legitimate place for hybridization or not - but it sounds like a lot of the genetic hybridization might be horrific and highly unethical. Once again - I don't know what's really going on - so I continue my little guessing game - posting here and there on the internet - hoping that it does someone some good - somewhere and somehow.

    I just finished listening to the 'Dawn of Man' broadcast - and in it, Bill states that he is a Christian who follows the words attributed to Jesus - and that he does not follow any church or religion. I suspected that he was a Red Letter Christian - but this was confirmation. I am a Red Letter Christian, as well - but I have only about 5% of Bill's brains, guts, and determination. Bill supported the Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution - and so do I.

    In Cooper's 1989 MUFON lecture - he stated that the 'aliens' presented a hologram of the Crucifixion of Christ. Did ET record the crucifixion - or did they project a hologram of the crucifixion from a UFO? Here is a link to paintings of the Crucifixion of Christ - with UFO's in the sky. Notice the image near the middle of the first page, in which a UFO appears to be illuminating the crucifixion. Could the UFO be projecting a hologram? Just wondering.

    I've been listening to a lot of the Cooper shows - and when I finish - I'll start over again. Is anyone else listening to the linked shows and lectures in the first post of this thread? I think this is foundational information. Obviously, we can consider everything from every source, but I think that if we neglect the Cooper stuff, that we may very well get a lot of other things wrong. I don't think we have the luxury of getting a lot of things wrong at this point. Conduit Closing.

    I've been playing these old Cooper shows as I fall asleep - so I consciously listen to the first 10-20 minutes - and then I listen to the rest as I sleep. 'Uncle Bill's Bedtime Stories'! I'm trying to program myself with the Cooper material - for a couple of weeks. I am also playing the Cooper shows as I do various things throughout the day and night. I know I'm crazy - but I'm finding these shows to be somewhat calming - despite their controversial nature. Again - I don't wish to fight with the elites. I wish to understand them - and to ultimately partner with them on a higher road than they are presently travelling. I could possibly turn out to be their best buddy! I really and truly do not wish for anarchy and violence to sweep the world. Just the opposite. I think that most of us are deluded - and that we need to rethink everything. All of my internet posting over the last couple of years are my attempt to rethink a lot of things in an open manner. You folks who may have been monitoring my internet activities really don't have to guess about much. What you see is what you get. I've pretty much been blurting out everything - which really isn't that much. I'm too screwed-up to be much of a threat.

    I am a huge contradiction. I don't like crucifixes, Dagon fish-headgear, crowns, thrones, blasphemous titles, corrupt and violent intrigue, astrological theology, a bloody communion which focuses upon human sacrifice, indulgences, crusades, inquisitions, and other excesses and abuses. I actually like the bright colors of the robes and stained-glass windows, the churches and cathedrals (they are already built, and should be enjoyed and preserved), the processions, the pomp and circumstance, the fragrance of the incense, the Gregorian chanting, the Latin, the classical and even showy pipe-organ and choral music, the assembled faithful singing in one accord, and the educated oratory of Jesuit priests - but this must be accompanied by consistent Christ-like living which arises from focusing upon Responsibility and the Teachings of Jesus. I think that Pope John Paul I was on the right track - but he was mysteriously murdered after being pope for only 33 days. Consider carefully the number 33. Was the timing coincidental? I think not. Church governance and policy should harmonize with the U.S. Constitution - rather than being at war with it. Notice the Treaty of Verona in the 'Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom' thread. The princes of the church should be confident, competent - and humble. There should be a teachable spirit - with no hint of arrogance. I don't wish to reinvent the wheel. I simply wish to make it completely round and true - so that it rotates smoothly. There is the Constitution Party - but they have some fundamentalist Christian additions to the Constitution. There is no political party which follows the Constitution - plus nothing. There is no Christian church which follows the Teachings of Jesus - plus nothing. Corruption and Cruelty are at the top of my Fecal List. Politcs is Religion. Religion is Politics. The question is 'Shall we have Fascism - or Shall we have Freedom?' Responsibility is the truth which shall set us free.
    aragami wrote:pretty sure commander x was an amalgamation of several different people
    You may be correct - but the voice, concepts, and choice of words sound a lot like Bill Cooper. Commander X mentioned Bill Cooper by name in the video. Also - the length of the video is nearly identical to Bill's 1989 MUFON lecture. It's not inconceivable to me that Bill went underground after 911 to avoid really being taken out. He had legion enemies. The story connected with his death seems contrived and hokey to me. Bill spoke of dying on his doorstep - and then ironically - he dies on his doorstep. I could be wrong - and I hinted at this theory on AV1 - but I didn't blurt it out. It should've been obvious to the alphabet types anyway - without any hinting from the general public. Tangentially - Alex Collier hinted in a 1994 interview (I think) that Jesus was a composite character. I think this might be a distinct possibility. We may be in for a lot of surprises about a lot of things. They may need those damn FEMA camps to contain us when we go crazy. I hope not - but I am apprehensive regarding the true state of affairs in this solar system - and with the potential public reaction to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help us God.
    Carol wrote:I have to laugh about Alex Collier. However, I also read where the Pleiadians claim the following - "Before leaving Earth, left a spiritual leader called Jmmanuel, who later was known as Jesus. Jmmanuel was a very evolved soul, whose father was Gabriel of the Pleiades system and Mary who was of Lyran descent."

    Chew on that one for awhile.
    Thank-you Carol. I like Alex Collier a lot. I think he knows the whole truth. I think he has told us a lot of truth - but I think that he knows a lot more - but he has told us all that he is able to - at this time. I also think that he has had to mix the truth with a certain amount of fable and bs. I think this may have been necessary - under the circumstances. In the movie 'Contact' - there is a big poster (outside of the antenna array area) of Jesus - with the words 'Jesus Was An Alien'. What if Gabriel is the equivalent of God the Father? What if Michael is the equivalent of God the Son (Jesus)? What if Lucifer is the equivalent of the Holy Spirit (Mary)? I continue to speculate about a three-way power struggle in this solar system - going back thousands, or tens of thousands, of years. The Nazis, Masons, and Magicians? Teutonic Zionists, Zionists, and Christ-like Responsible Freedom Proponents? Amen Ra, Hathor/Isis, and Horus? I think the Archangels, Sirius, and Tibet may have a lot to do with everything. Did Mary steal fire (forbidden technology and hybridization genetics?) from Gabriel? Is there a hidden war between Gabriel and Mary (the Queen of Heaven)? Is Jesus trying to break up the fight - and bring peace to this solar system? Why can't Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer unite under the banner of Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom aka the United States of the Solar System? Why can't we keep the best of everything - and discard the worst of everything? Why does this have to be so damn hard? Is Saturday sacredness connected with Gabriel? Is Sunday sacredness connected with Lucifer? Or is it the other way around? Jesus didn't tell us to keep any day sacred - did he? I used to go to church on both Saturday and Sunday (I sang in choirs) - but now I don't go at all. I think that services should be offered every day - and that no particular sacredness should be ascribed to any day. Church attendance should not be expected or required - but it should always be an option for those who wish to participate - seven days a week. Thou shalt have no gods or goddesses - and remember to keep every day holy. World without end. I'm continuing to listen to Bill Cooper - and I'm liking what I'm hearing. I continue to think that this is foundational material. It's sort of like getting algebra and trigonometry mastered - before moving on to calculus. I would direct all new esoteric and conspiracy researchers to Bill Cooper first - and to get his material completely absorbed before moving on to other writers and speakers. He programs people with information - without programming them with anger and hatred. This is a good thing.

    Here is a Protestant view regarding the 'Woman Who Rides the Beast' aka the 'Whore of Babylon'. I am not endorsing this video. I include it only to provide another perspective. Obviously - I have been considering the possibility that the 'Whore of Babylon' may be the 'Queen of Heaven' rather than being a particular location or church. Again - I have no animosity. I'm just trying to figure out what has been going on throughout history. I have a feeling that most of us are deluded - including me. Does anyone know how much the Whore of Babylon charges? Fifty Cities? Why is she called the 'Whore of Babylon'? Because she babbles on and on and on and on and I'd better stop...

    The following comment is just a brain-fart. In the Mass - the wafer or host is round - and some say that it is representative of the Sun - which is representative of the Sun God. Then, via transubstantiation, it becomes the Son of God. Have you ever thought of it in this manner? Sun > Son? I continue to think that most of our research topics should be addressed with the Roman Catholic Church clearly in mind - simply because all roads lead to Rome - and the Roman church is really the biggest game in town. To ignore this aspect of world history and the present state of affairs - is to really miss the boat. I see a central role for a completely reformed church. If the church is not reformed - we are really and truly $crewed. I continue to think of myself as a Renegade Roman Catholic Reformer - who is attempting to liberate the church - and hence the world - whether anyone wishes to be liberated, or not! Liberated? Liberated from what? If you only knew...

    I've been listening to Bill Cooper a lot lately - and I like Bill a lot - but I am completely different than him. I am going in a completely different direction. I'm not opposed to Bill - it's just that my conclusions and goals are very different in nature and style. I am much more passive and globalist. I'm trying to invite myself to the elite's party - and move them to a much higher road - rather than engaging in trench warfare with them. But I'm much more naive than Bill - and I need his guidance. Now I'm going to listen to another show...

    The 1970 movie with Glen Ford - 'The Brotherhood of the Bell' dovetails with Bill Cooper's material. Once again - I do not wish to reinvent the wheel. I simply wish for the psychology and ethics of every faction and class to be significantly raised. I'm really not trying to be a Knight in Shining Armour - just a critical yet silent uninvited parter of the PTB. I'm trying to be both the worst enemy and the best friend of the PTB. Now I'm going to listen to another Cooper show. This is the clip I keep going back to. This clip should probably be listened to over and over and over and....

    Three of the links to the Mystery Babylon Series no longer work (Assassins and the Templars, Secret Societies and Vatican II, and Roshaniya). Why is this? What changed? Is this censorship at work? Any ideas? I've had two of my websites taken over (even though I was paid-up for years). One of my websites was taken off the internet completely (with no explanation). Two websites I have posted on have either been shut-down or closed to posting (with numerous technical problems). Numerous links on threads sudden don't work anymore. What the hell is going on?

    Bill Cooper continues to be a good starting point for those who wish to wade into the madness and bs. He didn't get everything right. He was a flawed human being. He didn't know about a lot of things which we are exposed to now. But he was really quite the trailblazer. Please consider the material on this thread. I mostly point people toward other people. I have been accused of being an egotistical ignoramus - and I quite agree. But I still have enough sense to point people toward people who knew, and know, a helluva lot more than I do. Bill Cooper continues to be my starting-point and reference-point in this crazy world of fringe-research. In a memo, President Bill Clinton referred to Bill Cooper as being the most dangerous radio-host in America. I think Bill got to the heart of the matter - especially in the early 1990's. I keep thinking that Bill survived that 'shootout' - and went underground - perhaps surfacing as Commander X. I will now rewatch the video you posted. Thanks again. I'm reading 'SS Brotherhood of the Bell' by Joseph Farrell, and 'Rise of the Fourth Reich' by Jim Marrs. We really are having to deal with some horrendous problems. I hope we survive.

    I just wish to say one more time, that I'm pretty much upset with everyone and everything. This whole mess is insane. I don't think it had to happen at all - and that once it did happen - the insanity was mismanaged. I might not have been able to do any better - but that's just the way I feel today. I have spoken with no one - online or in-person - who I really and truly resonate with. I feel very little warmth or love directed toward me - and my own love is growing colder and colder - each and every day. Could Gabriel be the Judge? Could Lucifer be the Jailer? Could Michael and Humanity be the Prisoners on Death Row? Just wondering. I am more disillusioned than anyone can possibly imagine. That's why my house and my life are a goddamned mess. I get the picture that the great big guns of the universe are poised to perform a great big extermination - with righteous indignation - and very little compassion - from their great big UFO's. I get the feeling that whoever created us is really disappointed with us - and looks upon us with disgust. That's right. I'm mad at all the damn gods and goddesses - good and evil. Go ahead. Burn me you bastards. But burn yourselves as well - and put yourselves out of the universe's misery. I might have this completely wrong. Please forgive me if I do. But think long and hard about these five video clips. What the hell is really going on? No one seems to be telling the truth. I'm beginning to think that the entire universe is some sort of a Regressive Theocracy or Universal Church. This might have been necessary in the past - but please make an exception for this solar system. We've gone through too much character building BS to go back to business as usual. If the rest of the universe wishes to live under Theocratic Enslavement - then so be it. BTW - when was the last universe-wide election???? Sinners in the hands of loving gods and goddesses???? Can you feel the love tonight???? 1. 2.

    This is just a renewed plea to go through this thread as sort of a study-guide. There is a fair amount of repetition, which is both by accident and design. I will be doing some editing and tidying-up in the coming weeks. Look at all of the links. Read all of the material - including the fine-print. I'm not a know it all. I'm just starting to grasp some of this material. Once again - this is a study-guide or a mental-gymnasium. There is more to this thread than meets the eye. I didn't just pull this out of an anatomical black hole. Even though it appears to be quite disjointed and random - it really is not. I am very concerned that as the general public is bombarded with all of the new information - that many of us will react irresponsibly - which could make things a lot worse. I have tried to be balanced. I have tried to inject humor, irreverence, sarcasm, speculation, music, etc. - to try to break the ice - and to hopefully help people to learn about some very upsetting information and concepts - in a light-hearted manner - hopefully to keep them from running in the streets, or going completely insane. I think a lot of people are going to lose it in the coming years. Take your time. Take it easy. Learn about life, the universe, and everything - in your own time, and in your own way. If it gets too overwhelming - STOP! I just returned from the funeral of a young person who died violently. This really made me face myself, and think. Life is precious! Life is ernest! Life is real! Reverence Life! I really wish for things to work out well for ALL BEINGS in this solar system - even for the regressives. They might be regressive for some very good reasons. I don't know. If I have hurt anyone with my speculations and brash internet posting - I am truly sorry. I just think that a lot of hidden things need to be revealed - and that a lot of crud and corruption needs to get cleaned-up. I continue to agree with Raven, that I am a completely ignorant fool. I talk endlessly about responsibility - yet I continue to be irresponsible. I am a hypocrite. The existing PTB are probably ten times smarter and more competent than I will ever be - but I still feel obligated to try to understand the hidden things - and to second-guess the PTB (human and otherwise). I'm really NOT a Vengeful Goyim! The PTB in the Hands of a Completely Ignorant Goyim!!!!

    Jenetta wrote:Orthodoxy have you ever considered putting all this material from this thread into a book? Happened to read the Lacerta files on this Thread (do you have the material in another post as well?) and find the material quite fascinating as I am interested in the evolution of mankind our species.
    I do believe that you are a genius who very few are taking seriously. Keep up the good work.
    Vincit Omnia Veritas
    Thank-you Jenetta. This material is so highly speculative and controversial, that I'm very afraid of putting everything into book form - and taking the show on the road, so to speak. I think I would either be assassinated, or I would fall flat on my face. I'm really just trying to develop my own understanding, by publicly posting, in a very limited manner. I tend to think that the right beings (human and otherwise) might occasionally read these threads, and that this might be somehow helpful to the evolution of life and governance in this solar system. I really think this is playing with fire - and I have a healthy respect for the consequences of getting it wrong. This is just an ongoing science fiction show, which I am living within, each and every day. I am trying to approximate what the esoteric reality might be - but I have no idea how close to the mark any of this is. The more I research and speculate - the less I seem to know. I would love to attend a lecture at Oxford or Cambridge - in a large and old lecture hall - given by a panel of Elites, Jesuits, Agents, Politicians, Theologians, Scientists, Reptilians, Greys, Hybrids, et al. You get the picture. Just the classified facts - followed by a fieldtrip through a Deep Underground Military Base! But then I would know too much - and we all know what that would mean...

    If there is an underground reptilian society - should we look to them for clues regarding how to properly conduct human society - or are they too different from us, to be able to profitably implement reptilian models within human societal situations? I tend to think that we should carefully examine all societal models - both actual and imaginary - and then implement the best of that which we have examined - in the context of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. I think we should look at all of the possibilities before arriving at any major decisions. Should human and reptilian societies interact with each other - or should they be isolated from each other? Segregation? Separate but Equal? Integration? Forced Busing? (Greys vs the Board of Education?) I think we should consider all of the possibilities regarding just about everything - all of the time. But this is easier said than done. If there has been a Reptilian Queen of Heaven and Earth - at the center of things - for thousands of years - should they continue with business as usual - or should there be a fundamental shift in solar system governance? I tend to think that credit should be given where credit is due - and that criticism should be leveled when and where it is appropriate. Most beings (human and otherwise) are probably a mixture of good and evil. The good should not blind us to the evil - and the evil should not blind us to the good. We need to learn constructive critical thinking, with extreme discernment. History is a mess - but if any of us had been in charge - would it have been any better? A lot of us are good - because we have lacked the opportunity to be evil. Perhaps most of us are Dr. Jeckyls and Mr. Hydes. Everyone has their price - and many of us sell out at firesale prices. Should important decisions be expected of those who have incomplete information and preparation? Is it possible for those with good intentions - to pave the road to hell? I am literally begging humans and otherwise - to study this thread - and then tell me what you think - in a polite, intelligent, and detailed manner. I'm simply trying to think about difficult subjects, by discussing them with others. I do not wish to play the part of the charlatan. I say that I don't know - over and over and over again - and this is not a figure of speech, or a becoming humility. I mean it. When I feel as though I am being set-up for something bad - am I just being paranoid - or are 'they' really out to get me? Is the lack of participation on this thread, really just the quiet before the storm? Are beady-eyed medieval scholars going through this thread word by word - and placing thermite and micro-nukes on its major supporting columns - to bring about the controlled demolition of the principles and concepts presented throughout this thread? I wonder. Things seem to be strangely quiet. If a solar system governmental change in the direction of the editorial bias of this thread ever occurs - beware of subversive scuttling efforts to sabotage any changes for the better. Again - I support evolutionary change - with plenty of continuity. We need to cure a very sick patient, without killing them. Again - I wish to change everything, without changing anything. Sometimes plenty of rope is provided - in the hope that an opponent will hang themselves. Am I just being fed more and more rope - while the big guns wait and watch? The subject of Solar System Governance will most likely be a long-term infowar - as it should be.

    If you or I were a reptilian being, who lived in an underground base or city, how would we react to a United States of the Solar System? If these hypothetical beings live for many hundreds of years, don't have to sleep, have complete reincarnational recall - lifetime after lifetime - and are governed in a theocratic manner - they would literally be living in a completely different world and consciousness. Would this existence necessarily be wrong or evil? Would they be able to continue their present way of life, in a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System? Would humanity understand them - or even try to understand them? Could the races ever forgive each other for past misdeeds, enslavements, exterminations, various and sundry atrocities? Would openness and disclosure - result in war (including yet another solar system wide star war)? I still don't know enough to properly answer these questions. What if both races are fundamentally flawed and wrong? I recently lashed-out at the gods and goddesses (good and evil - human and otherwise). I'm just frustrated with everything. I keep trying to be happy, figure things out, overcome my chronic fatigue and discomfort - but nothing seems to work. I really do not wish to fight with anyone - human or otherwise. I have spoken of the possibility of living on Phobos for a couple of months with some Greys and Dracs - and I really wasn't kidding. Is there a Human Jane Goodall - who studies the Reptilian Race? Is there a Reptilian Jane Goodall - who studies the Human Race? I'll bet there is (on both counts) - but we don't get to read about them in National Geographic! I desire that things work out well for ALL CONCERNED. I wish for cooler heads to prevail. Can't we just all get along? Even if the editorial content of this thread is not incorporated to any significant degree - and even if I continue to be a miserable wretch - I still think that RESPONSIBILITY should be focused upon by ALL RACES - regardless of their nature or history. I really do not wish to be a man of conquest or coercion. I really wish to be a simple and passive man. I really would enter into peaceful and rational dialogue with Lucifer, Amen Ra, the Queen of Heaven, Greys, Dracs, PTB, etc, etc. They'd probably all think I was a completely ignorant fool - but I would genuinely try to understand them. I am presently trying to understand them. I really don't like to fight. I bring peace - and not a sword. Don't be frightened. I mean no harm. I am of peace. Always.

    The Visitors said they were of peace. They lied. Are we primarily dealing with an Ancient and Ongoing Human vs Hybrid ("V's") Civil War? Do the Hybrids have the upper hand - even though they remain mostly hidden? Are they preparing to take over Earth completely - rather than simply ruling from the shadows? Will most of us be driven off-world, exterminated, or enslaved? BTW - no inside information - so don't pack your bags just yet. Did ancient Humans create all manner of hybrids - including the Dracs, Greys, and Annunaki - with forbidden technology (possibly obtained from Regressive Interdimensional Reptilians?). Did they obtain and/or invent computers, nukes, antigravity-spacecraft etc. Did they enslave the hybrids, and demand worship? Did the hybrids rebel (led by Lucifer?) - and confiscate most of the forbidden technology? Did the hybrids steal 'Fire from the Gods'? Are the 'aliens' really rebel hybrids - who we created? Does the 'Original Sin' involve all of the above? Have the renegade hybrids been raising hell with us for thousands of years? Are they presently considering exterminating us? If we somehow eliminated or removed the renegade hybrids - would all of the fancy technology be in the best of hands - or the worst of hands? Do we need the hybrids to reign us in? Should my fantasy of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System include hybrids? If most of my questions are answered affirmatively - how should this mess properly be resolved? Is it going to take someone like Anna in 'V' to properly promote and institute a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System? Would this be a Supreme Contradiction? If there really is a Queen of Heaven who rules this Solar System - she might really have to sign-off on the concept before it could ever become a reality - and I'm very Sirius.

    If reincarnation is a reality - I am very afraid regarding what I might have done, or who I might have been. Progressive Interdimensional Reptilians vs Regressive Interdimensional Reptilians? The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan in the Conflict of the Ages? The horror. I'd really like to know the complete history of all types of technology, governments, religions, etc. The history of genetic hybridization especially interests me. I feel somewhat close to learning what actually happened - yet I feel as though I might never find out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I'd really like to know the true state of affairs just prior to the Luciferian Rebellion and War in Heaven. What were the motivating factors? How can we properly proceed as a civilization - if we don't know our true history? It seems as if we have been dumbed-down and held-down for thousands or even millions of years. This seems to be ongoing. What was the Original Sin? What really went wrong? Why is there a Continuing Sin? How will this madness be properly resolved? By keeping everyone in the dark? Is it possible that Lucifer stole all manner of technology (Fire from the Gods?) - including genetic hybridization - and got a multitude of souls (Fallen Angels?) to go along with him/her in this matter? Did an extensive technology and hybridization program commence in secrecy - while keeping humanity (as we know humanity to be) completely in the dark regarding all of this? Is the rest of the universe unable to do anything about this because we are being held hostage - and used as human shields? Or - are we all a party to the madness - whether we remember agreeing to the rebellion, or not? Someone needs to start telling the truth - with absolutely no bull$h!t. It seems to me that we need some sort of a changing of the guard in this solar system - or some sort of a solar system governmental change. I have expressed certain preferences - but I don't know the whole story, or what is really going on - so take everything I have said, with a boatload of salt.

    I certainly hope that those who are in the top positions in this solar system - really know what the hell they are doing - and that they are doing that which is in the very best interest of the human race. Of course, I wish for things to work out well for all races - but I don't have a clue regarding what any other races are really like. I'm just very tired of what seems to be an endless stream of bull$h!t. I want this to stop NOW. Sorry for the negativity - but I am simply trying to be honest. This is probably a mistake. The truth is so overrated. So many shows. So little time. I continue to think that the shows are an important part of research and disclosure. They help us to think about a wide variety of possibilities - so that the truth won't make us run in the streets, start a star war, or go nucking futs. A part of me would like to be involved in a real "V" situation (without a lot of the bad aspects shown in the series). Another part of me is very afraid of how bad and devastating a real "V" scenario might be. I'd really like to see a future where all races got along - and where there were tours of ALL of the Underground Bases throughout the Solar System. I see no reason why this Solar System can't be a Paradise rather than a War Zone. But I still don't know the whole story - and I continue to think that this old, old story is very violent and sad. No matter what happens - there will be no gloating or unkindness on my part. I just want the madness to end - for ALL CONCERNED. If we all got a bong - we'd all get along!

    THE END.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri May 24, 2013 1:37 am; edited 2 times in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu May 23, 2013 1:36 pm

    Here's an example of an organization which historically has had excellent scholars and spiritual-leaders -- yet which often has a rather narrow and arbitrary approach to life, the universe, and everything. As you know, I keep referring to Adventist scholars and books -- yet I no longer attend church. I deal with Catholicism in a way very different than nearly all Protestants. I'm sort of a Friendly-Enemy or an Unfriendly-Friend. Anyway consider the Three Angels Messages of Revelation 14 -- as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. (Perhaps this is the reason why I'm a Pious-Zombie and a Completely Ignorant-Insane-Intolerant Fool. What Would Raven Say???

    Three Angels' Messages

    The "three angels' messages" is an interpretation of the messages given by three angels in Revelation 14:6-12. The Seventh-day Adventist church teaches that these messages are given to prepare the world for the second coming of Jesus Christ, and sees them as a central part of its own mission. (Find out more about the beliefs of the church.)


    The Three Angels' messages of Revelation 14 are highly significant to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. In the SDA Church's official mission statement, the Three Angels' Messages are prominent: The mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is to proclaim to all peoples the everlasting gospel in the context of the Three Angels' messages of Revelation 14:6-12.[1]

    First angel

    "I saw again another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, 'Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7 KJV)

    The First Angel’s Message is a prophecy that states that the gospel will be preached to every nation on earth and was to remind God’s people fear God and worship Him as Creator, because the judgment is coming.

    Who or what do the angels represent?

    The Greek word translated as an angel (Strong's G32 - aggelos) simply means: messenger, one who is sent. In Luke 7:27, speaking of John the Baptist, we read: “This is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”

    In Revelation 14:6-12 the word angel is mentioned five times. Only one time adjective holy is added which indicates heavenly angels while the other four simply represent messengers. Speaking of the first deacon Stephen we read in Acts 6:15: “And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.” Also, apostle Paul writes in Galatians 4:14: “And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.”

    What is the everlasting gospel that these messengers proclaim?

    Greek word translated as the gospel simply means the glad tidings. The Bible definition of the gospel in found in Romans 1: 16, 17 where we read: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein (in the gospel) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”

    In other words, the gospel is the power of GOD given to those who believe in His righteousness for salvation.

    In Galatians 1:6-9 we read: ”I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

    We see that these messengers (angels) proclaim the same everlasting gospel of “the grace of Christ” which is an “everlasting gospel”. The term grace also represent the power of God. In the New Testament we read several passages that testify to that fact:

    “And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.” Acts 4:33

    “And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” 2 Corinthians 12:9

    “Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”Ephesians 3:7

    The phrase “to preach” can be also translated as “#good tidings”G2097 of salvation throe Christ. Who is this message intended for?

    It is for “all”G3956 that “dwell on the earth” as indicated into four categories of people. The word all is defined as individually.


    in the OT, the word “nation” is used to describe foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles. Paul uses the term “nation” for Gentile Christians.


    This word means a tribe, thus indicting that this message is to go even to the primitive people as well. Another use of the word “kindred” in the NT referred to all the persons descending from one of the twelve sons of the patriarch, Jacob.


    The word “tongue”G1100 is used to represent a member of the body, an organ of speech as well as the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations.


    A people, people group, tribe, nation, all those who are of the same stock and language or of a great part of the population gathered together anywhere. The word “people”G2992 is almost always there a title reserved for the elect people, the Israel of God. Still there are exceptions.

    Apparently the “everlasting Gospel” is to go to all people individually.

    What does it mean to fear God?

    “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

    For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14

    “O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!” Deuteronomy 5:29

    “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.” Psalm 111:10

    “And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an uprightH3477 man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8

    “And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right (same root word as Job1:8 - “uprightH3477”) in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." Exodus 15:26

    What does it mean to give glory to God?

    In Revelation 4:11 we read about the scene that is happening in heaven where heavenly beings are giving glory to God. And the reason given is that God is the Creator of all things. This is the reason that we are to give glory to God.

    “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”

    Psalmist David points out what sets God apart from all other gods. If we don’t give glory to God as the Creator it is as we worship other gods. Psalm 100:3:

    “Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.”

    Again we read that glory belongs to God because He is the Creator.

    “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.” Psalm 19:1

    "The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works." Psalm 104:31

    Since the Bible admonishes us to “fear God” by keeping his commandments and to give Him glory as the Creator we find that the fourth commandment of the moral law points us to God as such.

    “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:8-11

    The phrase “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth...” or because of gives us the reason why should we keep the “seventh day” Sabbath. It acknowledges God as the Creator of all and commemorates it.

    Paul admonishes us that in everything we do we should do it to glorify God. Even in our eating and drinking.

    “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.” 1 Corinthians 10:31

    God most delights if we allow Him, by the power of His Holy Spirit, to change us back into His image from which we are created (Genesis 1:27). The only way is if Christ “lives” in us. 2 Corinthians 3:18

    “But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

    “If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:” Colossians 1:23,27,28

    Second angel

    "There followed another angel, saying, 'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" (Revelation 14:8 KJV)

    The second angel's message is a call to repentance. The second angel's message is a call for Christians attending fallen churches ("Babylon") to leave those churches and join the true remnant church that follows Gods truth.

    Third angel

    "The third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment will ascend for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'" (Revelation 14:9-12 KJV)

    The third angel's message is a warning to the people of the earth, not to worship the beast or his image. (The "beast" and his "image" were introduced in chapter 13 of Revelation.) Those previous verses are the source of the famous mark of the beast.

    Adventist interpretations

    The Seventh-day Adventist Church has traditionally believed that it is the remnant church of Bible prophecy, and that its mission is to proclaim the three angels' messages.

    Official views
    "The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness." Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church [2] "In accordance with God’s uniform dealing with mankind, warning them of coming events that will vitally affect their destiny, He has sent forth a proclamation of the approaching return of Christ. This preparatory message is symbolized by the three angels’ messages of Revelation 14, and meets its fulfillment in the great Second Advent Movement today. This has brought forth the remnant, or Seventh-day Adventist Church, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual[3]
    The Mission Statement of the church declares:
    "The mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is to proclaim to all peoples the everlasting gospel of God’s love in the context of the three angels' messages of Revelation 14:6-12, and as revealed in the life, death, resurrection, and high priestly ministry of Jesus Christ, leading them to accept Jesus as personal Saviour and Lord and to unite with His remnant church; and to nurture believers as disciples in preparation for His soon return."[4]
    The image of three angels circling a globe is the church's former symbol. The current logo of the Seventh-day Adventist church has three flames encircling the globe, representing the Holy Spirit; the threefold flame is also a symbol of the three angels.[5]

    Historical interpretation

    According to the understanding of the Adventist pioneers, the first angel's message occurred during the two decades prior to the spring of 1844. The message of the imminent second coming of Jesus preached by the Millerite movement then fulfilled the prophecy of the first angel's message.

    The second angel's message was then preached during the summer of 1844, which was preceded by a significant number of Millerites leaving the movement, and resulted in large numbers of Christians leaving their churches ("Babylon") and joining the Advent movement.[6]

    The third angel's message is based on the idea that the "Seal of God" (Revelation 7:2) is the Sabbath commandment of the decalogue. Therefore, the "mark of the beast" is the opposite, or the keeping of Sunday as the Sabbath. Hence the close of the message, "here are they that keep the commandments of God." It is a point of emphasis among Adventists that the mark of the beast has not yet been given out.

    (The Millerites generally interpreted "Babylon" in the Book of Revelation as the papacy, up through summer 1843. This was the position of most Protestants. Well-liked Millerite preacher Charles Fitch expanded it to include all Catholics and Protestants who rejected the Adventist teaching. His message was "Come out of her, my people", which was based on Revelation 18:2,4 (see also 14:Cool. This had followed a shift in 1843 when the Millerites received more ridicule, and were increasingly disfellowshipped by their churches. The Millerites came to see themselves as a separate group, which became increasingly necessary as many were disfellowshipped.

    Most of the eastern leaders did not initially accept Fitch's pronouncements, yet many lay people did. Eventually and reluctantly Joshua V. Himes came to advocate the message, in Autumn 1844. Miller never affirmed it, despite being disfellowshipped from his church.)[7]

    Standard view

    When Jesus did not return in 1844 as expected by the Millerite movement, the resulting Seventh-day Adventist movement came to see itself as the remnant of God and believed that their mission was to preach the three angels’ messages again.

    The first angel's message is the “everlasting gospel”, namely the “good news of God’s infinite love”. It is also a warning that the investigative judgment has begun and a call to worship the Creator of the world, specifically in the keeping of the Sabbath commandment. “The first angel’s message … calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath [which is] the sign of God’s Creation.”[8]

    The second angel's message is a call to those in Babylon to “depart from her” (cf. Revelation 18:4). Adventists traditionally believe that Babylon represents the apostate church, which they identify as Roman Catholicism as well as Protestants who have rejected the truth. “This prophecy of Babylon’s fall especially finds its fulfillment in the departure of Protestantism at large from the purity and simplicity of the everlasting gospel of righteousness by faith that once so powerfully impelled the Reformation.” This explains why Adventists often aim their evangelism at Christians in other churches as well as non-Christians. “The message of the fall of Babylon … calls on those of God’s people who are still in the various religious bodies comprising Babylon to separate from them.”[9] However, Adventists have also made it clear that there are currently many true believers in “Babylon” who worship God sincerely, including Roman Catholics.[10][11]

    Theologian Ángel Manuel Rodríguez explains the mission of the remnant in terms of the second angel’s message: “The end-time remnant is described in Revelation as having a God-given mission and a particular message to the whole world. They are to call the people of God to come out of Babylon, that is to say, to join the historical, faithful and visible end-time remnant of God.”[12]

    The third angel’s message is a solemn warning against observance of Sunday as a sacred day, which Adventists have historically interpreted as the mark of the beast. “Those who reject God’s memorial of creatorship—the Bible Sabbath—choosing to worship and honor Sunday in the full knowledge that it is not God’s appointed day of worship, will receive the ‘mark of the beast.’”[13] It should be emphasised that Adventists believe that the mark of the beast will only be received at a future date, when every person on earth is made aware of their obligation to keep the Sabbath; in other words, Christians who currently worship on Sunday do not have the mark.[14]

    Alternate view

    Some in the more liberal wing, Progressive Adventists, typically reject the claim that the three angels' messages find unique fulfillment in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Adventists believe that God has led the Christian movements in history,[15] but progressives tend to not put Adventism on that level. Their view may be contrasted with certain of the harsher critics who do not see God's leading behind the movement at all.

    Progressive Adventists such as Steve Daily have challenged the traditional understanding of the Remnant, preferring to widen the concept to include Christians in non-Adventist churches.[12] The traditional Adventist interpretation of the mark of the beast (i.e. Sunday worship) is also rejected by many progressive Adventists.[16] These developments necessarily call for a reinterpretation of the second and third angels' message; a widening of the remnant removes the impetus to call Christians out of Babylon and warn them against worshiping on Sunday.


    The concept appears in the title of the Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN). The song "Three Angels" appears on Bob Dylan's album New Morning; an unrelated "Three Angels" appears on the album Picture of Health by The Headstones.

    See also

    Seventh-day Adventist Church
    Remnant (Adventist)
    Seventh-day Adventist eschatology
    The Pillars of Adventism
    History of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
    Prophecy in the Seventh-day Adventist Church
    Investigative judgment


    2.^ "Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church". Retrieved 2007-04-28.
    3.^ "Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual". Archived from the original on 2007-04-08. Retrieved 2007-04-28.
    4.^ "Mission Statement of the Seventh-day Adventist Church". Official statement approved by the General Conference Executive Committee at the Spring Meeting in Silver Spring, Maryland, April 1993; and amended on October 10, 2004
    5.^ "The Logo and its Meaning". Archived from the original on 2007-04-05. Retrieved 2007-04-28.
    6.^ Ellen G. White. The Great Controversy. pp. chapters 20 & 21, pages 355–390.
    7.^ George R. Knight, A Brief History of Seventh-day Adventists, p19–21
    8.^ Seventh-day Adventists Believe (2nd ed). Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. 2005. pp. 192–194.
    9.^ Seventh-day Adventists Believe (2nd ed). Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. 2005. pp. 194–195.
    10.^ Questions on Doctrine. Review and Herald Publishing Association. 1957. pp. 197–202.
    11.^ "How Seventh-day Adventists View Roman Catholicism". General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Administrative Committee (ADCOM). April 15, 1997.
    12.^ a b Ángel Manuel Rodríguez (2002). "The Remnant and the Adventist Church". Biblical Research Institute.
    13.^ Seventh-day Adventists Believe (2nd ed). Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. 2005. p. 196.
    14.^ Questions on Doctrine. Review and Herald Publishing Association. 1957. pp. 183–186.
    15.^ For example, George Vandeman's book What I Like About...: The Lutherans, The Baptists, The Methodists, The Charismatics, The Catholics, Our Jewish Friends, The Adventists: Rescuers of Neglected Truth, in which he sees many groups restoring certain of God's "truths"
    16.^ Ron Corson. "Progressive and Traditional Adventists Examined". Adventist Today.

    Other resources
    "The Remnant and the Three Angels' Messages" by Hans LaRondelle in Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, vol. 12 of the Seventh-day Adventist Commentary Reference Series

    magamud wrote:Your a staunch intellectual Oxy. I do not blame your POV nor would I blame an atheist. The evolvement into our perspective is a long time coming. This is why it is mercy when Jesus will come with his glory. The important thing is awareness on all its levels. In that sense everyone is making progress to the truth. So Kudos to you all!

    What cannot be said even amongst all the imaginative creations of mans mind is that God did not tell us the truth of reality.

    To help with some of the projection from this perspective is the savior concept as a crutch. This is absolutely not so as you must save yourself first in the physicality lets say. When you have reached a point you understand Jesus is there to help and has deep compassion and knows mercy very well. We can be babes to receive grace in the grand design. Is there anything more spectacular?

    Secondly the problem with putting literature or the bible in general in front of understanding. This is at epidemic proportions and the epitome of corruption. This is the Pharisees tale. The knowledge is interconnected and it can be said played like an instrument. So there is a music coming from it. When people are unaware of the sound in general their music can be horrid sounding. First of all lets just tease out those who still practice bigotry, racism, and fascism guised in Homophobia or abstinence or whatever. You were charged with multiplying and understanding boundaries. This is between you and God. You as a sovereign conscious being must choose. This world provides examples of both extremes.

    Wow the editing tracking is micro managed. Good! Dissect this prologue with all your have and see what you find...

    Perhaps I can get to the count of ten within a ten minute span of writing it?
    THEeXchanger wrote:Good point "m"
    but, don't you think that there were other souls
    such as Jesus, who have come to earth
    esp; near the end of a grand cycle
    (16 dec 2013 at sunset / 17 dec 2013 at sunrise)

    i've often wondered if Jesus was a 'graduated' soul
    or, an example, what is possible
    magamud wrote:
    but, don't you think that there were other souls
    such as Jesus, who have come to earth
    esp; near the end of a grand cycle

    Jesus is the door that molds consciousness. So it is the template to consciousness. This is the righteousness of the world. This is the meaning of the harvest.

    There is an endless army of Jesus,
    A Kingdom...
    magamud wrote:The permutations are endless thanks to the love of our creator. This is the essence of grace.

    But god has his limitations as we all do. And to balance the guilt of this end, he employs a kingdom of servants to ensure its mercy and compassion.
    magamud wrote:The statism to oppose this perspective is astounding and a testament to a Strong delusion. The political correctness and sensitivity to any undocumented movement is extreme. Paranoia justified as loving altruism. The perfect analogy manifest in flesh is AIDS. We are cannibalizing ourselves.

    Our diseases should be warnings of our intentions. They have become commodities for art and culture to dramatizing the absurd with and be happy with the status quo. Its astounding. A testament to our species power indeed. And thank god for his glory in helping us grow. Thank god for his plan.
    magamud wrote:The devil has fooled man into destroying himself.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:The last few posts are quite interesting, magamud. I once received an internet message (not on this site) to the effect that we could only harm ourselves. They didn't spell it out -- but I got the impression that an other-than-human race hates humanity (perhaps legitimately) but that the universe will only allow them to trick humanity into self-destruction. I am presently VERY troubled and perplexed by BOTH Humanity and Divinity. They didn't tell me 99% of the REAL story in Sabbath-School. I get the feeling that humanity is on a galactic death-row -- and that a huge cyanide-tablet has been placed within this Prison-Planet in Rebellion -- and that the universe is waiting patiently for humanity to commit suicide.

    What if the Real-Jesus (in forced exile?) created a mostly fictional Jesus-Story -- which was edited and corrupted by Paul-Josephus and/or Jesus-Cesarian?? Once again, I think the official theological stories might be a cover for a VERY upsetting theological and political reality. I think we truly see though a glass, darkly. What if dealing with divinity might be a lot like John Constantine dealing with Archangel Gabriel -- but with MUCH more sophisticated dialogue?? 1. 2. 3. 4.

    I keep getting the feeling that ALL of the governments and religions of world take their orders from the God of This World -- and I sense that a lot of these orders are NOT nice. Not nice at all. I used to talk with a theology-major, who later was instrumental in the production of The Spirit Behind the Church (which slammed the SDA church). I loved the church -- and I hated the church. I loved the light -- and I hated the darkness. I sensed that the source was the same -- yet I never dared to suggest this openly.

    I have no idea what's REALLY going-on. I have NOT circled the wagons and dug-in my heels. I am simply considering contrarian possibilities which might make nearly everyone extremely uncomfortable. This process is destroying me -- little by little -- each and every day. It's a nasty-task -- yet someone must do it. BTW -- I think I might've unintentionally given Lucifer the finger (approximately one year ago)!! I was driving my car (with both hands on the steering-wheel) when I thought about something which made me extend my middle-finger (with both hands still on the steering-wheel)!! Almost immediately, the driver of the car in front of me give me the finger through the sun-roof of their Subaru!! It might've been the Sun-God flipping me off through the Sun-Roof (although they usually drive a Taurus)!! True Story!!

    Is the Sun-God in this solar system really one of many Sun-Gods?? Is each Solar System Administrator considered to be a Sun-God or a System-Lord?? Are there many Queens of Heaven?? I have suggested that possibility. Is the Queen of Nibiru the Queen of Heaven who rules the Sun-God of This World?? What if the Galactic-Hierarchy is VERY complex and problematic?? What if our little Earth-Human problems are insignificant compared to the Nightmares Out There??!! I continue to think that the way this solar system is run has EVERYTHING to do with how the rest of the universe is run. What if Earth-Humanity cannot be an Exception to the Universe-Wide Rules?? This madness might not just be about us. What Would Ra Say?? Amen?? 1. 2. 3.
    magamud wrote:
    the universe will only allow them to trick humanity into self-destruction.
    This is the "freewill Zone" this is the area where galactic and mortality meet. The devil has tricked or ponzie schemed an entire galactic/ufo/alien paradigm into being sociopathic in every conscious way possible. He gives them huge amount of power and gets them to believe us poor mortals are but fodder. This gets translated into our world much how we treat animals/food, fossil fuels, resources in general. The ignorant who fall for this is due to many reasons, one of them is the amount of time between gods direct evidence and the probable deniability it gets.

    They didn't tell me 99% of the REAL story in Sabbath-School
    We are in the times of strong delusion. At the final death throws of the devils ponzie scheme.

    and that the universe is waiting patiently for humanity to commit suicide.
    This is why Jesus taught us what life is and what death is. Our death is nothing but the creator saving us from ourselves which would be inevitable. Thats where you get Prophecy from. Life is remembering the Law of the universe and Gods heart.

    What if the Real-Jesus (in forced exile?) created a mostly fictional Jesus-Story -- which was edited and corrupted by Paul-Josephus and/or Jesus-Cesarian??
    You have to understand how God works. How he interacts with us. This is what is meant when Jesus warned evil that no matter what you do you cannot tamper with the word in the bible. They can change names, dates, details etc.., but the gist of what god is would survive.

    I keep getting the feeling that ALL of the governments and religions of world take their orders from the God of This World
    Everything manifests from Gods power. The Harvest is meant to give you the freedom as a sovereign individual to choose your way. But God is like a Father he will only let his children get so far from him. This is what Jesus was saying about gathering the lost sheep from the flock. This is a tell of gods compassion for us as mortals. If you do not understand what life is the festering sociopathy of our species will appear that we have been forsaken. This is very far from the truth. It can seem tough, but that is because we are learning how to live in flesh and blood. This natural law from God is then used by the Devil to justify Sociopathy in general.

    give me the finger
    We are all passionate to know freedom. So when we dont get the freedom we want it becomes anger. This is to show the importance to the world/universe in general that we need Gods guidance to grow in his image.

    Is the Sun-God in this solar system really one of many Sun-Gods??
    In the end there is a singularity. So there is Jesus and there is the Devil. This might sound oversimplified as it is for our sake and for the babes of the world. So from Jesus and the same from Lucifer they both have an army to serve the universe. This is the catalyst of energy in general. Im sure there are some very juicy tails of lucifers minions but if you do not know Jesus these dramas will be distraction and temptation to fall into lucifers sympathy. Sympathy for the devil?

    What Would Ra Say??
    Well some of lucifers minions are going to use this time to change their ways and see the truth of the universe and give up the drug pushing devil away. This means going through mortal incarnation and forgetting who they were. They then go through the trials and tribulations like you and me to know god truly in spirit. So yes you are more powerful then any of lucifers minions as to why God loves you so, more then any sparrows. But many lose their way especially in todays times. They fall into lucifers ponzie scheme accept his miniscule power and start the road of becoming a false demi god. So this trial for all of lucifers men starts in this time for mortal man. Do you See? This becomes a harvest time for all beings in the universe to evolve.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you for your answers, magamud. I keep wondering if we are fundamentally dealing with an Other-Than-Human Gabriel in conflict with a Human Michael -- with a Hybrid Lucifer taking advantage of BOTH Gabriel and Michael (and everyone else)??? What if Lucifer is the Antichrist-Mediator Between God and Man?? On the other hand -- how do we absolutely determine who God REALLY is?? I keep suspecting that God was removed from power in the Garden of Eden -- but I obviously have no proof. I keep getting the feeling that the Nazis-Masons-Jesuits are at the center of everything -- and run everything in this solar system!! Things might be especially interesting in the coming years -- now that we have a Jesuit Pope (as well as the usual Jesuit-General aka Black-Pope)!! Too many skeletons are falling out of the confessionals -- and too many forbidden-secrets are becoming common-knowledge. Something is bound to snap -- and the consequences might be extremely harsh. This is one reason why I merely mumble on a small website. If this solar system is a big galactic business -- the business owners will NOT passively allow the employees (or slaves) to consumate a hostile-takeover. I obviously wish for a positive change to take place -- yet even if this occurs -- many things might need to remain the same. A United States of the Solar System might need to be a Galactic-Business where Appearances are Everything (inside and outside) and the Bottom-Line is the Bottom-Line (for all concerned). An evolutionary-reformation might result in an idealistic-form of that which presently exists. Think about three major forms of authority in this solar system. Governments, Religions, and Legal-Systems. What is the proper relationship between these three?? What is the proper relationship between God and Man?? I tend to think that Ethics, Law, and Order should be at the center of everything -- under the watchful eyes of Almighty God. Would a proper legal-system provide the appropriate separation of church and state?? Should politicians really be Law-Makers?? Should the clergy really be God-Makers?? Should governments apply the secular aspects of the law?? Should churches apply the sacred aspects of the law?? Should Responsibility and Love be at the center of Government, Religion, and Law?? Think About It.

    I Spent Many Hours Playing This Pipe-Organ!!
    Using ONLY the 8' Praestant and 8' Gedackt Stops, the 8' Bass
    and 16' Subbass (Pedal Stops), and the Coupler Yields a Stunning
    Result in This Fine Acoustical and Architectural Space!!
    Try Arranging BWV 582 for Organ, SATB, Cello, and Trumpet!!
    What Would Sally Say??? What Would Father Tom Say??

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Wed May 29, 2013 4:27 pm; edited 14 times in total

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 24, 2013 4:37 pm

    I keep wondering why the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of ALL Christian Churches aren't the 28 Fundamental Teachings of Jesus?? I include the following because of my background -- and because it is representative of Reformed Protestant Beliefs (although many Protestants might protest this assertion). All of this is intended to make all of us think. But really, most believers don't wish to have anyone meddle with their faith -- and most unbelievers don't wish to discuss beliefs. Period. Where are the objective, open, fair, and honest researchers??????

    28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists
    Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.

    1. Holy Scriptures:
    The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)

    2. Trinity:
    There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)

    3. Father:
    God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)

    4. Son:
    God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

    5. Holy Spirit:
    God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

    6. Creation:
    God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made "the heaven and the earth" and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of His completed creative work. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was ``very good,'' declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1; 2; Ex. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Heb. 11:3.)

    7. Nature of Man:
    Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)

    8. Great Controversy:
    All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

    9. Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ:
    In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God's triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)

    10. Experience of Salvation:
    In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

    11. Growing in Christ:
    By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus' victory gives us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience. (Ps 1:1, 2; 23:4; 77:11, 12; Col 1:13, 14; 2:6, 14, 15; Luke 10:17-20; Eph 5:19, 20; 6:12-18; 1 Thess 5:23; 2 Peter 2:9; 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:17, 18; Phil 3:7-14; 1 Thess 5:16-18; Matt 20:25-28; John 20:21; Gal 5:22-25; Rom 8:38, 39; 1 John 4:4; Heb 10:25.)

    12. Church:
    The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord's Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God's family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish. (Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

    13. Remnant and Its Mission:
    The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

    14. Unity in the Body of Christ:
    The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

    15. Baptism:
    By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)

    16. Lord's Supper:
    The Lord's Supper is a participation in the emblems of the body and blood of Jesus as an expression of faith in Him, our Lord and Saviour. In this experience of communion Christ is present to meet and strengthen His people. As we partake, we joyfully proclaim the Lord's death until He comes again. Preparation for the Supper includes self-examination, repentance, and confession. The Master ordained the service of foot washing to signify renewed cleansing, to express a willingness to serve one another in Christlike humility, and to unite our hearts in love. The communion service is open to all believing Christians. (1 Cor. 10:16, 17; 11:23-30; Matt. 26:17-30; Rev. 3:20; John 6:48-63; 13:1-17.)

    17. Spiritual Gifts and Ministries:
    God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. Given by the agency of the Holy Spirit, who apportions to each member as He wills, the gifts provide all abilities and ministries needed by the church to fulfill its divinely ordained functions. According to the Scriptures, these gifts include such ministries as faith, healing, prophecy, proclamation, teaching, administration, reconciliation, compassion, and self-sacrificing service and charity for the help and encouragement of people. Some members are called of God and endowed by the Spirit for functions recognized by the church in pastoral, evangelistic, apostolic, and teaching ministries particularly needed to equip the members for service, to build up the church to spiritual maturity, and to foster unity of the faith and knowledge of God. When members employ these spiritual gifts as faithful stewards of God's varied grace, the church is protected from the destructive influence of false doctrine, grows with a growth that is from God, and is built up in faith and love. (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:9-11, 27, 28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16; Acts 6:1-7; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; 1 Peter 4:10, 11.)

    18. The Gift of Prophecy:
    One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

    19. Law of God:
    The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

    20. Sabbath:
    The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

    21. Stewardship:
    We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

    22. Christian Behavior:
    We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

    23. Marriage and the Family:
    Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between partners who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, marriage partners who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving disciplinarian, ever tender and caring, who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. (Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 19:3-9; John 2:1-11; 2 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 5:21-33; Matt. 5:31, 32; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11; Ex. 20:12; Eph. 6:1-4; Deut. 6:5-9; Prov. 22:6; Mal. 4:5, 6.)

    24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
    There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

    25. Second Coming of Christ:
    The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ's coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)

    26. Death and Resurrection:
    The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

    27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
    The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)

    28. New Earth:
    On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1-7; 22:1-5; 11:15.) Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.

    This SDA Church is on Hollywood Boulevard (at the Hollywood Freeway)!! We Called it "Noah's Ark"!!

    Posts : 7957
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 25, 2013 4:00 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    TRANCOSO wrote:Egypt's Cave Underworld Under Investigation
    New (2013) article detailing many of the latest discoveries.

    The Re-opening of NC2 - In The Shadow of an Advanced Pre-Civilization?
    With a huge File Presentation - 7 Long Pages & Nearly 480 New Pictures
    Thank-you TRANCOSO. There's just too much for me to keep-up with!! I'm really struggling right now. Sometimes I think I should stop researching and just wait a few years until all of this stuff gets packaged for the general-public. This is sort of like buying a state of the art computer -- only to find that by the time you get it home and get it all set-up -- that it's already obsolete -- and that you could've gotten it somewhere else for half the price!! The more I think -- the more it hurts -- and the harder it is to think. Anyway, I'll take a look at these links over the next couple of days. Thanks again TRANCOSO.
    I got the bright-idea of attempting to prove each of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists by using ONLY the Gospels!! It had been quite a while since I looked at this list -- and I was VERY interested by the very careful wording they used!! I continue to think that Politics, Religion, and Law are VERY Important to our quest -- even if we HATE Politics, Religion, and Law (as we know it)!! This is a nasty-battle -- and this is NOT about being happy or having fun. It's a nasty-task which some of us must perform -- so the rest of us can live our lives as Completely Ignorant Fools (without destroying civilization as we know it). I'm not sure if that really made much sense -- but I just felt like saying it!! Here is another Study-List (which is slightly different than previous lists):

    1. Israel and the Nations by F.F. Bruce.
    2. Daniel by Desmond Ford.
    3. Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen.
    4. 1928 Book of Common Prayer.
    5. Desire of Ages by Ellen White.
    6. The Gods of Eden by William Bramley.
    7. Jesus: Last of the Pharaohs by Ralph Ellis.
    7. Cleopatra to Christ by Ralph Ellis.
    8. The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ by Gerald Massey.
    9. The Federalist Papers.
    10. All Ten Seasons of Stargate SG-1.
    11. All Five Seasons of Earth: Final Conflict.

    Anyway, this is sort of intended to fit into the Ancient Egypt-Israel-Rome Theme (with a science-fiction twist). I think the REAL story is much more complex and messy than the Sunday School and Sabbath School versions. Once again, I think there are BOTH legitimate and illegitimate reasons why THEY have lied to us for thousands of years. I'm NOT attempting to generate anger toward THEM. I simply wish for the Human Race to grow-up and evolve just a little-bit more. Obviously, this is a VERY painful process -- especially when I suspect Angry, Jealous, and Vengeful Deities lurking in the shadows. I keep thinking that we've REALLY angered the Gods and Goddesses in antiquity and modernity. We might be EXTREMELY lucky to survive. When the Ancient Egyptian Deity told me I was lucky to be alive -- and that they could snap their fingers, and I'd be dead -- I sensed that they weren't kidding. I kid you not. If things really go to hell -- I'm not sure I really wish to survive. I live very close to one of the coasts, and I have no intention of moving. I'm probably on a bunch of lists -- so when things get really bad -- I'm sure I'll be one of the unlucky ones. Trying to save the world is SO overrated...

    I continue to wonder why the Great Sanhedrin (71 members) and the Teachings Attributed to Jesus have been neglected and ignored for two-thousand years?! What if these two theological and legal milestones were combined in the context of the Supreme Court of the United States of the Solar System -- obviously with modernizing adaptations and modifications??!! What if such an assembly met UNDER Jerusalem in a replica of Solomon's Temple (without the animal sacrifices and other aspects of ancient Judaism)?? Why does there have to be constant fighting in the middle-east?? What the hell has REALLY been going-on there for thousands of years?? Why is this desert real-estate SO important?? I might be an Ancient Hebrew -- but I am sorry that I can't seem to remember the details. I simply wish for this solar system to be a Paradise instead of a Purgatory. Is THAT too much to request??? Why does trying to make sense out of the madness seem to be a lot like reinventing the wheel every damn day?? Why is this SO hard??? Can't we just all get along??? Does World War III and the Battle of Armageddon REALLY have to play-out?? Do we REALLY have to bleed-out?? Come -- Let Us Reason Together...
    I'd like to take a positive and a negative look at the Jesuits. I sometimes joke that they monitor my posting activities, and that they're out to get me. Whether or not this is true, these people are quite controversial. I'm really trying to understand how the world is really run - and the Jesuits seem to be close to the center of things - for better or for worse. Here are some videos to get the ball rolling! So often, the subject is treated either as a nasty slam, or as a whitewash. I like the idea of calmly discussing various subjects - especially the controversial ones. My initial bias is that the Jesuits are basically good people who are in the middle of a very messy situation, which can sometimes be darker than midnight. I like the idea of the purification and reformation of the Roman Catholic Church - rather than just writing this organization off - in a condescending and triumphalistic manner. So I continue to think of myself as sort of a Renegade Roman Catholic - even though I have never been a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Do you see my point? I once attended a scholarly lecture given by a black Jesuit from San Francisco. They are quite the scholars, you know. It's the infiltration, subversion, and poison-cup thing that I have the most trouble with! I think that Jesuits know more about what's really going on in the solar system than just about anyone else. It's almost as if we need to be wise as Jesuits - and harmless as doves! Sorry guys! I couldn't resist! I'm especially interested in the relationship between the Jesuits and the Queen of Heaven - especially regarding the Jesuit General aka the Black Pope. Does the Black Pope meet regularly with the Black Madonna? I realize that this is playing with fire BIG TIME - but I have no agenda or hatred whatsoever. I actually like the current Jesuit General - but I don't even want to think about what he might have to deal with. But here I am - trying to think the thoughts of the Jesuit General and the Queen of Heaven - after them - as they travel underground at twice the speed of sound - on a magneto-leviton train. "Next Stop - Washington DC! The President is Waiting!"

    Gotta go! The St. Louis Jesuits are after me!!

    1. 35th General Congregation of the Jesuits

    2. A Year With the Jesuits (6 parts)

    3. Spoon Fed (7 parts)

    4. A World is Not Enough (3 parts)

    5. Who Are the Jesuits? (2 parts)

    6. Bob Bush - Former Jesuit

    7. Alberto Rivera 1 - Former Jesuit

    8. Alberto Rivera 2

    9. Alberto Rivera 3

    10. Alberto Rivera 4

    11. Alberto Rivera 5

    12. Alberto Rivera 6

    13. Alberto Rivera 7

    14. Malachi Martin 1 (9 parts)

    15. Malachi Martin 2

    I am looking for a big-tent solution - which does not involve peace at any price. Again - I am trying to unite the Teachings of Jesus, the U.S. Constitution, and the Latin Mass. I will attempt an analysis of this material in the next post. I am not trying to stir things up. I am trying to resolve things. Some might say that this constitutes hate-speech - but I include it to state the historical problem - which many think is a continuing problem. To solve a problem - one must understand the problem. There is a story - and I can't locate the source - which describes 'The Great Controversy' being torn in two (the hard way) by unseen hands! Could the chief administrator of the Roman Catholic Church be The Queen of Heaven? Could this be the 'Whore of Babylon' - rather than the RCC? See - I'm thinking that the RCC might have to deal with more secret and hidden problems than we can possibly imagine. I just watched 'Stargate Continuum' - and the scene where Ba'al and Katesh aka Vala are in their spaceship - and are preparing to attack and enslave Earth - particularly impressed me. Might the RCC have had to deal with something like this? Could there be a real-life Katesh (Vala) aka Queen of Heaven - who controls us by controlling the Roman Catholic Church? Please don't consider this post to be hateful on my part. I'm just trying to understand. BTW - are there any Jesuits out there who can point me to a book or website - from the Roman Catholic perspective - which analyzes 'The Great Contoversy' - from cover to cover? I know all about the Plagiarism and Investigative Judgment problems. I also know that most Jesuits have read this book from cover to cover - and have it in their libraries. I'm a real Pain in Uranus - aren't I?

    This is just a request to any governments, factions, or individuals - human or otherwise - to not do anything violent or destructive. We can argue, fuss, and fume - and try to work things out - but violence and destruction are not solutions. They simply create more problems. If there are too many people - we can institute a program of responsible reproduction. Undesirables can be educated and reformed into being desirables. Please consider evolutionary changes - rather than revolutionary changes. Human history is full of death, destruction, and incomprehensible stupidity. This needs to change - starting right now. Have a terrific day Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al. I'd like to meet all of you when this mess gets resolved. We need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System based on the U.S. Constitution and Teachings of Jesus (Responsibility).

    So - Lucifer - are you male or female? Who are you - really? Where do you spend most of your time? What the hell are you doing? Or - do you even exist? Is there really just a Council of Ten - or something like that - which rules the solar system? I keep talking about 10,000 representatives - of all nations and races - from throughout the solar system - as an ideal number - for a non-corrupt and organized-decentralized solar system government. But is this too many? What is the ideal method of solar system governance? Perhaps I have not carefully considered ALL of the possibilities, before arriving at my present biases and conclusions. Perhaps I should contemplate the general subject of solar system governance - rather than focusing on a particular type of solar system governance. Or - should I just shut-up, and not even think about it? Is 'One Nation Under Satan' the way things have always been - and always will be? Is everything else simply an illusion, and wishful thinking? Is the whole damn thing set in concrete? We're supposed to take 'baby-steps' - but if we can't see the big-picture - how are we supposed to know which direction to take these 'baby-steps'? This whole thing seems like a sick nightmare of a joke. Mumbo-Jumbo and BS are everywhere. What a mess!! So - when do we get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Or - is the truth so bad - that we would all commit suicide? How should one properly communicate with whoever the hell is running this $crewed-up solar system? Is anybody out there? Anyone???

    You know - I'm just going to imagine that The United States of the Solar System is already a reality - and that 2,500 of the 10,000 representatives meet every day at St. Mary's Cathedral, in San Francisco. I'll imagine that UFO's occasionally land on the premises - transporting representatives to and from the various moons and planets of the solar system. Am I walking into an ambush with this sort of thinking? Am I playing into the Deception of the Millenium? I'm just asking the Solar System PTB and Galactic PTB to read through this thread - to at least get a feel for what the Thoughtful Goyim are thinking these days. I will continue to communicate my delusional thinking to maybe a dozen people on this website. Perhaps something constructive will come of it. Freedom is key - and the key to freedom is responsibility. These two words should be studied endlessly. A constitution which maximizes freedom and responsibility should be sought - and Comparative Constitutions should also be an ongoing and relentless study. There probably is some sort of a dictatorial Council of Ten - with a ten-foot tall Drac serving as chairman of the board - because We the People are too irresponsible to govern ourselves. I'm pi$$ed-off at everyone - especially myself. I think we can all do a helluva lot better. This is probably the crazy-stage - where people are being hit with all sorts of controversial and conflicting information and concepts - of which probably 20% is actually true or constructive. If we survive this stage - then perhaps we can put together a more rational solar system view, and solar system governance. If I really spoke with Lucifer - they would probably point out how stupid and gullible we are - and why we are being ruled by secrecy, deception, manipulation, force, violence, etc. Lucifer might be a Devil - but we probably have what we deserve. Hopefully things will change for the better, sometime soon. I think we are too easy AND too harsh on ourselves. We treat ourselves and each other inappropriately. I think we are where we are by both choice and circumstance. I think we have been lied to and manipulated - but that we have allowed ourselves to be led around by the hooks in our noses. The past may have passed - but we need to study the past endlessly - or we will keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over again. It matters what we think AND what others think. Our thinking affects others. People suffer the consequences of our actions all the time. We are all interrelated - whether we like it, or not. I keep thinking that the editorial bias of this thread will be implemented - and then that the crushing weight of responsibility will be too much to bear - and that the universe will laugh in our faces when we REALLY $crew things up - and start begging for divine intervention. I sometimes think that no matter what we do - things will turn out badly. I guess I see nothing but trouble in our immediate future. But we should still do the right thing - no matter what. We should stand for the right - though the heavens fall - and they probably will fall - causing Atlas to drop the ball - and shrug. What would Ayn Rand say?

    Here is a short video of a member of Opus Dei. While not a Jesuit, this beautiful person exemplifies that stereotypes and Hollywood portrayals don't always reflect reality. This is probably true for both the Jesuits and Opus Dei. What if Roman Catholicism were considered to be an art-form, rather than a theocratic religion? Perhaps that's what I've been trying to get at with my references to Roman Catholic architecture, art, music, robes, pomp and circumstance, reverence and awe. Perhaps the people of the world should be lifted up with all of the above - but not spoon-fed and dictated-to. Again - this is tricky territory - and I don't know the whole story regarding what's really going on in this solar system. I don't hate the Jesuits and the Roman Catholic Church - but I am very wary of historical and contemporary Roman Catholicism. But I think that everyone should study Rome - and all of the roads leading to Rome - and out of Rome. If one fails to do this - one fails to grasp a key part of the puzzle - regarding life, the universe, and everything. What if some of my speculations about a hypothetical 'Queen of Heaven' are correct? What if she rules a 'Secret Government' which rules all of us? What if there has been corruption, abuses, and atrocities? What if all of this has been absolutely necessary? What if idealism and high-minded ethics are a recipe for disaster? What if the truth is overrated? What if we really cannot rule ourselves? This whole subject is scaring the hell out of me. I'd like to see a non-corrupt and transparent solar system government - but what if a lot of the secret stuff needs to be retained? Can we have our cake - and eat it too? Could there be such a thing as an 'Open Secret Government'? I understand the need for people to work behind the scenes in ways which might not be understood by the general public. I also understand that the general public is not being educated to be responsible. I guess I'd like to see everything change - without anything changing. Continuity should be a top priority as we transition into a Brave New Solar System. The universe is filled with contradictions and absurdities - and I don't expect this to change anytime soon. It's probably good to probe and ask questions - but it's probably a bad thing to push too hard, and ask too many questions.

    I continue to wish to be an observer of sorts - with access - but no authority. You know - sort of a Palmer Joss ('Contact') type of person - who likes to watch. What would Raven say? Are there people who presently travel the solar system in antigravity craft - travel from underground base to underground base in magneto-leviton trains - and sit in on top meetings (including the most secret and sensitive ones)? Obviously - such a person, or persons, would not be allowed to go and blurt everything out to the press. There is obviously a time and a place for everything. But how do we properly cut down on the corruption and absurdities which have plagued humanity for thousands of years? I'm an idealist - but I'm also a realist. Can you imagine being a lifelong student of Roman Catholic art, architecture, and music - without necessarily being Roman Catholic? Just think about this for a while. I have huge problems with Roman Catholic history and theology - but I adore the art, architecture, and music. I have suggested the possibility of thinking of Roman Catholicism as an art-form, rather than as a theocratic religion. Might this be it's proper role in modernity? Please don't fail to study the Roman Catholic phenomenon as you study about aliens, ufo's, dimensions, esoteric this and that, life, the universe, and everything. I tend to think that the Jesuits and the Alphabet Agents Worldwide are sort of in the same category. Again - I don't love them or hate them. I admire them - and I fear them - but I think they might be working for the wrong boss. If they were all only doing good from the shadows - this would be a good thing. But I get the picture that they get involved in some really dark activities, which are not in the best interest of the human race. If this is true - I hope things are changing for the better. I tend to think that they are. We will probably always need smart, brave, educated, innovative, disciplined people - working behind the scenes. I just want them to take the high-road instead of the low-road. That infiltration and subversion poison-cup bs is so passe and old-school.

    The further down the snake-hole I go - the more I can understand why the PTB keep the sheep in a little dreamworld. But a very rude awakening is in the process of occurring. I'm in favor of a proper disclosure - but obviously, the whole thing will be a big mess. Perhaps in a hundred years, things will start to calm down and make sense. I'm not expecting things to dramatically improve, anytime soon - even if people really start to do the right thing. The madness has too much momentum. What if all of us are ET's - spiritually and soul-wise? What if all of our souls are basically the same - whether we be humans, hybrids, reptilians, greys - or whatever humanoid beings there might be - throughout the universe? What if all of us are hybrids - with various percentage differentials of human/reptile or human/whatever? What if 'star-wars' are really 'soul-wars' - using various types of hybrid super-soldiers and advanced technology? What if we are the Orion-Group which Alex Collier speaks of? What if the 600,000 year human vs reptilian war was really an ideological battle - utilizing various types of hybrids and advanced technology? Once again - why can't this solar system become a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System - based upon Responsibility and the U.S. Constitution - with 10,000 highly competent and non corrupt representatives from throughout the solar system - with complete openness and transparency? Some of the biggest questions for me are 1. What is the true origin, nature, and destiny of the soul? 2. What was the Original Sin? 3. What is the solution to the Sin Problem? 4. Whatever Happened to Sin? 5. What would Karl Menninger say? Once again - I really don't know what's really going on in this world, this solar system, this galaxy, or this universe. If I did - my questions and conclusions might be completely different. I can't see properly. I can't think properly. I'm miserable, sick, and tired - and I sense that the problems are worse than even I can imagine - and that proper solutions will not be implemented anytime soon. But why be so negative?

    I keep thinking that one has to become highly spiritually and ethically compromised to get the plumb jobs in this world. Perfectly possessed, soul scalped, chip implanted, programmed, and dark rituals all come to mind. I don't have first-hand knowledge regarding this - but this is still what I think. The Creator God of the Universe seems to be strangely absent from this Solar System - even though I see them revealed in nature, the Teachings of Jesus, and in the faces of those who I meet every day. I'm not sure exactly how justice will be achieved - but I am certain that it will be achieved. I think most of us have the potential to be quite evil - if we were placed in certain contexts and circumstances. If we have all been reincarnating for thousands of years - perhaps most of us have been involved in highly unethical and/or violent activities. I keep saying that Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. What would Lord Acton say? Are there exceptions to this rule - such as the Creator God of the Universe? What would the Archangels say? We do create a lot of our own problems - many of them imaginary. I model a lot of problems in my own mind - because I don't have access to a Cray supercomputer. So, my mind is bogged-down, and running very slowly. The Pope is a strange looking individual, at times - and does resemble Emperor Palpatine. The light at the end of the wormhole might be a closed iris!! Ouch!!! Robert Morningsky says to NOT go toward the light when we die. What is the purpose of a physical body, if we are interdimensionals or multidimensionals? I tend to think that physicality is essential, rather than being a hindrance.

    Who are the Archangels presently? What have they been doing throughout history? Are they warriors? I thought Michael was associated with Jesus - but most of the Michael images contain swords. But did Jesus say that he had not come to bring peace - but a sword? Are we dealing with battling archangels? Is there a peaceful archangel in the house? I am highly conflicted! Are the archangels presently inhabiting physical bodies? If so, what kind of bodies? How would one recognize an archangel if they saw one? Can an archangel cease to exist? Are one or more archangels facing demotion and/or annihilation presently? Can a fallen archangel be properly reformed and restored? What does 'fallen' really mean? What does 'regressive' really mean? Where art thou, Lucifer?

    Carol wrote:beautiul pictures Oxy. When Raven comes back I let you two go at it and stay out of it. However, porn pics will be deleted. There was feedback from the members who thought you needed some protecting. Given how you keep calling Lucifer into play it seems you have more to work on. Only what you may have overlooked is that Lucifer is here and has changed his path. All that is left are those who are still committed to the path of endarkenment.
    I really don't wish to fight with Raven (but I will if I have to). I am just trying to understand a lot of different subjects. I'm less helpless online than I am in real-life. I keep referring to Lucifer and the Archangels (sounds like a rock band!) because I think they might be central to this ancient drama. If we don't get that part right - we get the whole thing wrong. I am not a Luciferian or a Satanist. I'm a Backslidden Christian. If I spoke with Lucifer in person - I would give them the same courtesy which Christ exhibited during his temptation in the wilderness. I do have more to work on. A lot more. Some on this forum have said that Lucifer no longer exists. I have doubted this. I have heard that Lucifer is facing annihilation. I prefer incarceration, reeducation, reformation, restitution, and restoration for him/her - if this is possible. But once again - I don't know the whole story. I like to think that Lucifer has changed his/her path. I have seen some evidence of this - so regarding the subject of Lucifer - I am not necessarily a completely ignorant fool (but I am on most other topics). It's probably hard for any being(s) to change directions - which is why I support evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, change for the better. Check this out.

    Definition Of An Archangel
    Before I get started, I must give the definition of the word "Archangel". An Archangel is a high ranking Angel. They are considered to be the "leader" of the Angels. Seven Archangels appeared before God in The Book Of Revelations. Only four were named in the Bible. Some of the information below will not be only from Christian faith, it will come from others that believe in the almighty as well. They are the divine messengers between humans and God.

    ArchAngel Michael
    Michael is probably the most well known Archangel of all the others. He is said to be God's champion and is usually pictured with an unsheathed sword. It is foretold that when the world is in jeopardy again, Michael will return. In the bible, it is said that Michael was the Archangel that told the Virgin Mary of her approaching death. According to Jewish scriptures, Michael is the closest to the Lord, for his name means "like unto God". As the eldest Archangel, he is given captaincy over all of God's natural phenomena, such as the rain, wind, fire, snow, thunder, lightning, and hail. He is said to be the battler and defender of heaven, and the Patron Saint of policemen. It says in The Book Of Revelations that Michael will lead the Angels against the dragon in the final battle. There are actually 8 main Archangels.Lucifer was also an Archangel, but he was cast out of Heaven, leaving seven main Archangels.

    Archangel Uriel
    The name Uriel has four meanings, "Fire of God, Flame of God, Light of God, or Sun of God."Some accounts say that Uriel is the head of the third order(or company)of Angels. Others identify Uriel as one of the seven Archangels before the Throne.

    Archangel Raphael
    This Archangels name means "God has overcome." He is said to be the Angel that supervises healing. Raphael is one of four Archangels mentioned in the entire Bible. Raphael first appears disguised in human form as the traveling companion of Tobias, calling himself "Azarias the son of the great Ananias."The Archangels protective influence is shown in many ways, including the binding of the Demon in the desert of upper Egypt.

    Archangel Remiel
    Remeil, meaning "Thunder of God", is a Grogori or watcher. He is often confused with Azazel, because he is also called Rameel(sounding like Remiel, Ramiel).There are some stories that claim Remiel is one of the seven Archangels in the Book of Revelations, while others say that Remiel is a fallen Angel, because he refused to take custody of Hell. He is also said to be the Angel of guidance.

    Archangel Lucifer
    There is alot of information about Lucifer, whether it is from the Bible, or from other religions. Lucifer was an Archangel long ago. Lucifer, meaning, in Latin, as "Light bringer, Bearer of Light." Lucifer is now known to the world as Satan, or the Devil. Satan, meaning "Adversary."Lucifer is said to have been cast out of Heaven because of "sinful pride", thinking that he was equal to God and rebelling against him. Supposedly the most evil thing that Satan does to us is tempt us into thinking that we are God. It is said that Lucifer is the first Angel to have sinned. Some say that Lucifer is not the opposite of God, but the opposite of Michael, the head Archangel. It is said that Lucifer was created by God on the 6 day of creation. The original theory is that Lucifer is the Archangel that rebelled against God and lead the revolt against him. Lucifer was jealous of the love that God felt against Adam. Some scholars actually believe that Hell is located in Heaven. It is believed that Lucifer aligned himself with one third of the Angels in an attempt to overthrow God and the faithful Angels, taking over the Kingdom. Lucifer and his Angels engaged in battle with Archangel Michael and his Angels and were defeated, casted down to earth.

    Archangel Gabriel
    The Archangel Gabriel comes from the Hebrew meaning"Man of God."Gabriel and Michael are the Archangels that figure most prominently in the Bible. He is mentioned by name in two visions of the Prophet Daniel. Here he explains the future of Israel to Daniel.

    Archangel Raguel
    Raguel name is said to mean "Friend of God."Some say that his role is to oversee all of the other Archangels and Angels to ensure they are working in harmony and order according to the Divine will. He is also considered "The Relationship Angel."

    Archangel Zerachiel
    Zerachiel is one of the main Archangels that leads souls to judgement. An Angel of healing. It is also said that he is the presiding Angel of the Sun, Prince of ministering Angels who watch over Mortals, and the Angels of children, particularly children of parents who have sinned. He is said to have dominion over Earth.

    I actually enjoyed getting cussed-out by Raven! Raven got banned for 100 days. I hope she comes back. I didn't even mind the porno pictures! But this is a site which is open to the general public - so there does have to be some moderation and limits. I'm trying to be good - without being too good. A perfect being who is retentive to the nth degree is not a perfect being. I am continually making politically incorrect comments and jokes. I frequently use thinly disguised bad words. Is this a sin? Is it possible that those who are highly critical of this approach might be the real hypocrites and sinners? I do tend to like to hide behind my puritanical skit - but I like to wear this skirt quite high...

    Here is a composite of my posts from a thread which got out of control. This whole fringe world is bizarre to begin with - but I suspect that some of it is real.

    Thank-you Raven. I haven't watched the videos yet - but I keep thinking about that first abraxasinas post on the Thuban Q&A - with the demonic fantasy. Sexuality, Genetics, Hybridization, Experimentation, Technology, Warfare, Rebellion, Self-Exaltation, Original Sin, Master Race, God, Goddess, Satan, Deception, etc and et al - seem to be interrelated. I am much more interested in why things are so screwed-up than I am with various positions. The position I take in my position paper titled 'Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System' is that NO ONE SHOULD BE ON TOP!!! Of course - the Queen of Heaven might be able to change my mind....

    Thank-you Raven. I'm about half-way through the videos. BTW - Jack is supposedly channelling Enki - is that correct? I once suggested to a very conservative theologian, that sexuality and spirituality were intimately related. I received hacking laughter as a response. I also think that making love and making music are intimately related. I learned most everything I know about sex - from Dr. Zdrock. 1. 2.

    But, to be perfectly honest, I have learned one or two things from former porn-star turned preacher (decidedly Pauline theology) Pastor Melissa Scott. 1. 2.

    I'd love to chat - but I gotta go do something!

    Thank-you Raven. That was good! I'm flattered! But I am in deep thought - wondering why priests and popes have to practice celebacy? Could it be that they are married to Mary? Might the Queen of Heaven proclaim, 'Thou shalt have no other gods or goddesses before ME!'???

    Thank-you everyone! Pastor Melissa Scott is actually not a bad preacher - but she seems really restrained and repressed in that role. I'm also not a fan of Pauline theology. I am a Red Letter Christian / New Age Agnostic! Melissa was married to Dr. Gene Scott - who was a real piece of work - money-hungry - dirty old man! This thread is going downhill fast. I really didn't intend for it to go in this direction. You know - my taking conservative religion seriously - combined with the whole Madison Avenue and Hollywood BS - BS male and female stereotypes and roles - plus the fear of STD's - really ruined the whole subject of sexuality for me. In many ways - I am repulsed by the topic. I think about it - to be sure - but it's more of an abstraction of spirituality, conflict, and reflection - which doesn't gel with anything in the popular culture. I live a very dull and boring life. The son of a prominent theologian (who I won't name - but I attended a lot of his lectures) was a journalist who covered the porn-scene in Hollywood - but got out of it quite a while ago. He was actually on '60 Minutes'. He said that most people who try to go into the porn business are so humiliated and repulsed by it that they quit pretty quickly. He converted from Christianity to Judaism - but I think he ran afoul of the Jewish authorities! He's quite a rebel and a genius. He's quite entertaining - but his story seems sad - and he's been an embarrassment to his parents. Oh well. Such is life. I'm considering starting a ministry to convert the hookers and porn-stars of the world to Christianity. I'm also considering starting Hookers for Jesus - and publishing Repent House Magazine. What happens when you put the batteries in backwards in the Energizer Bunny? Think about it.

    There was a young woman named Wyld
    Who kept herself quite undefiled
    By thinking of Jesus and social diseases
    And the fear of having a child

    Now - back to the priesthood and celebacy. Have you ever wondered why they call a theological school a semin-ary?? I once heard of a priest who boasted that he had lots of wives!! (true story) Have you ever heard of the lime-pits? I won't elaborate on that one. But really - could priests and popes be - in a sense - married to Mary? Could Jesus have been married to Mary? How much does the Whore of Babylon charge? Fifty cities! Why is she called the Whore of Babylon? Because she babbles on and on and on and on and....

    The bottom-line is that if this world focuses on RESPONSIBILITY - everything will fall into place - including sexuality. Think about it.

    Now - what about the three ladies this thread is based upon? Has anyone looked at any of their websites, videos, internet shows, etc? In a sense - I wish I didn't have to wade through all of this stuff. I really just want to focus on the Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System concept - and not spend a lot of time on the hard to prove, and creepy material. I really don't think it facilitates constructive mental health. I'm not sure I want to wake people up to all of the fringe confusion and BS. I'd like to keep the evolution of society and consciousness as simple and positive as possible. AV1 and MOA have been experiments for me. I don't talk about this stuff once I log off the computer - with a couple of exceptions. I deal with Roman Catholics all the time - and I never confront them about any of the dirt I sometimes deal with on the internet. The same goes for people who are into the goddess thing or pagan thing or whatever. I truly am into positive reinforcement - but websites such as this are probably appropriate forums to deal with the dirt - to try to formulate positive solutions and responses.

    Don't pick on the priest! Perhaps the nun has a bad habit...

    What do you call a sleep-walking nun? A Roam'n Catholic.

    What if the pope has been mixed-up with some really dark activities - but what if the pope is doing the best he can? I worry about who I think might be giving the pope orders via the black pope. Just speculation - but I still worry. I don't think that the Vatican or Bilderberg run the world. I think they implement that which has been ordered. ET Phone Rome? More speculation. Now - can we discuss Dana, Sherry, and TREEE? Dana has a lot to say about the RC Church. The whole world needs to be reformed - and not just the church. They just happen to be the biggest game in town - with quite the dark track record.

    I am genuinely puritanical - and I am genuinely reprobate - and I hide behind my screen-name - orthodoxymoron. I frankly get tired of looking at that which I cannot have - and my puritanical ethics and guilt complex prevent me from taking advantage of opportunities which present themselves. I really am $crewed-up. Once again - I don't play numbers-games. The Pope's VICARIUS FILII DEI supposedly equals 666 when you total the Roman Numerals. Many other prominent names generate the feared 666. Frankly my dear - I don't give a damn. Hell - with all of my blasphemous posts and delusions of grandeur - I could be the damn antichrist! I continue to be interested in a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System - based upon Responsibility and the U.S. Constitution. I am trying to spend more time reading the Four Gospels, the Federalist Papers, and the Anti-Federalist Papers - while listening to Latin Masses and Classical Sacred Music. But wine, women, and song - has brought down many a good man - so I'm not falling for it. But if I were presented with sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll - I might go for that! What would Hathor say? Could the Living Christ (The responsible, spiritual, and modern application of the Teachings of Jesus) be The Christ? Could the Queen of Heaven (presiding over the New World Order - which is really the Old World Disorder Demonic Theocracy) be The Antichrist? Don't get me wrong - there's much about the old world and centralized administration which I admire - and I love the artistic aspects of the old world - but the historical corruption, misery, and carnage - is beyond comprehension. I wish to keep the best, and eliminate the worst - of all worlds. BTW - I'm not speaking of purges and exterminations. I simply wish to see a perfected humanity living in a perfected solar system - but only noble means will achieve noble ends. Now - back to the dirty pictures. One more thing, Raven - sometimes I wonder if you might be the real abraxasinas - and I wonder if Tony is just a front-man. Have you ever met TREEE - or might you be TREEE? Sorry for being so forward - but those pictures sort of loosened me up!

    Raven! Now you're getting nasty! You're so sexy when you're nasty! Does it sometimes take one to know one? Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle 'black'? Leo Zagami said that he was Christ (and that Amen Ra was his father) - so if I am opposed to Leo (especially in regard to his 'Prison - 2012 - Armageddon rant' - then I take that as a compliment. Once again - I wish for everyone to be happy - and that means everyone - including you, Raven. Namaste.

    No hard feelings, Raven. No, actually, I take that back. Think long and hard about that one. Speaking of back - I looked-up 'Djed' Speaking of Egypt - you remind me of Hathor. Double your pleasure by using both hands, Raven - but make sure that you have lots of Vaseline stockpiled in preparation for the coming earthchanges. These drawings were smuggled out of the Dulce Deep Underground Military Base by Thomas Costello. Incidentally - my primitive Red Letter Christology includes Egyptology. I really think this thing will work out well for everyone, including you, Raven. That text you quoted from the Gospels is interesting and troubling - and highlights my belief that the Bible is a mixed-bag and a big puzzle - which needs to be completely understood and solved. Still - I don't do the numerology and symbology thing very well - so I have left that to others - such as Dr. Desmond Ford, Dr. Erwin R. Gane, Dr. Tonyblue, Dr. Matrix, et al. At some point, I would love to speak with you, without the mind-games and nastiness. I realize that you are much more knowledgeable and experienced than I am - but I like ladies who are experienced, and who know what they're doing...

    Thank-you Raven. Was that Alec Baldwin's tail - or was it something else? The self-flaggelation is sad - but spiritual discipline is a good thing - such as extensive theological research, debate, and helping others. Namaste.

    Don't be frightened. I mean no harm. Thank-you Raven and SuiGeneris. Too bad that things got out of control. I wasn't offended - but this is a public forum. Anyway - I'm still interested in the Queen of Heaven concept - from Lilith to Mary. I don't know how much of this stuff is true - and I am using my imagination a lot - but I think that some of it is true - and that there is a good and a bad side to all of this. The dragon and serpent parts have me worried. What kind of car does Anna drive? A VW!! Namaste. Sweet Dreams. I am of peace. Always.

    Thank-you SuiGeneris. Your post was quite entertaining! But I don't do symbolic and numerological apocalyptic literature. Could we discuss the Sermon on the Mount and the Great Commission? Or, could we at least discuss the three interesting ladies in the first post of this thread? I'm usually quite easily sidetracked - and I often chase after red-herrings - but I have been more focused lately. We the People of Earth seem to be running out of time to get it right.

    I'd like to have a clear picture of the aspirations and dreams of the hypothetical Queen of Heaven - going back thousands, or even millions, of years. I would like to see this in all of its glory. Then, I would like to understand the negative aspects in all of this. What went wrong? Or, did anything go wrong? Is everything going according to the ancient plan? Can you imagine being in ancient Egypt, at the height of its majestic splendor, and standing (or kneeling?) before the Queen of Heaven? Is there a good side to this sort of thing? Is there a bad side? Should all of the ancient structures, throughout the world, be completely restored? Should we bask in the art, architecture, music, and culture of antiquity - while avoiding the harsh and cruel aspects? I welcome dignity and splendor - but it needs to be available to all people - not just to the elites. Should the royal-model and the servant-model be combined? You know - Humble Dignity. See - I really wish for this solar system to be highly refined - with elegance and excellence everywhere - but I do not wish for arrogance and cruelty to be part of this. Do you see my point?

    Perhaps Lucifer is the Hermaphrodite/Hybrid/Reptile/Human/Nephilim/Interdimensional/Physical/God/Goddess of This World (and the Solar System?). Is Lucifer both Amen Ra and Hathor? Did Lucifer create all of the mythologies, theologies, gods, and goddesses - including Jesus and Mary? Did Lucifer create the Dracs and Greys? Is there really only one faction of Annunaki - under the command of Lucifer? Is Nibiru ruled by Lucifer? Is Lucifer the Ashtar Commander? Are we all Fallen Angels - who followed Lucifer to Earth? Have we been left to our own devices by the rest of the universe? Is Lucifer the script-writer, director, and actor/actress of "The God-Father-Mother"? Are NASA's Nazis, Masons, and Magicians - all Luciferian? Does Lucifer rule the United Nations, the United States, the City of London, and the Vatican? Were they all infiltrated from day-one? Are the three stars (upside-down or rightside-up) in the Republican logo (and Washington DC) representative of the three City-States? What would you say to Lucifer if you met him/her? I might tell you a story someday.

    I would/will/have befriend(ed) Lucifer - but I will not give an inch. I wish for peace - but I will not be a sucker for peace at any price. I'm really sort of neutral about the whole thing. I don't love or hate Lucifer. I really wish for Lucifer to completely embrace Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom and The United States of the Solar System. I think this will ultimately be in Lucifer's best interest - and in the best interest of the human race (and any other race) - even though it might not seem like it right now. This thread (and all of my internet posting) probably makes Lucifer absolutely furious - and I don't blame him/her! I'd be livid too! Once again - I realize this is playing with very, very hot fire. I really just wish for things to work out well for all concerned - including Lucifer. But really - I'm continuing to treat this whole thing as though it were just a science fiction novel. I don't know what's true - and what's pure, unmitigated popycock. This is just one big nightmare. I'm so numb - I almost don't care anymore...

    I'm in a mood. What if Lucifer wrote the scripts and played the parts of ALL the Gods and Goddesses? Think about it...

    Thank-you SuiGeneris! Cool poem! I generally consider the razzmatazz to have mostly been a mind-game or a test of sorts. In fact, most of what I have participated in online just seems like a silly nightmare. I really want to get completely away from all of this. I just want to be a happy and successful human being. So far, I have achieved neither, despite numerous opportunities. I'm liking the idea of focusing on reading books and listening to music, and just skipping the online tussles. What I would really like to know, is who have I REALLY been dealing with online? I may never know - but I suspect that I might be shocked if I knew. I really just want to live in a sane world. But, in a sense, I doubt that I will ever be happy - because of the history of the world - and my part in it - no matter how good things get in the future. I almost don't want to continue. I'm tired of the BS.


    I so don't want to keep dealing with this madness - but I so don't want the madness to continue. It is interesting to compare these three interesting ladies with each other. (Dana, TREEE, and Sherry Shriner.) It's sort of like a cat-fight, in a way - even though they don't usually refer to each other. Once again - I am not a follower of any of these three - but I do like to keep my eye of them. What if they are all one?? I'm getting really tired of fighting without knowing who or what I'm really fighting. "So, what are we fighting, Rambo??" "ANGELS!!" I feel as if I'm making numerous mistakes as I continue to get taken advantage of. Is it really fair to reign someone in by nefarious and supernatural means?? How about open and honest conversation?? I support the Sovereignty of the Right God -- but False-Gods should be immediately disempowered and demoted. Having limited information about the most important subjects is really quite unfortunate, to say the least. I'm not Pro-ET or Anti-ET -- but I'm not buying that all ET's in the solar system are benevolent -- any more than I think all Humans in this solar system are benevolent. I'd be especially wary if "Benevolent" ET Phones Rome and tells us to kneel (or else)...

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