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    Floyd

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    Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:55 am

    I was waiting to get my haircut back in 2007 and was reading the paper as you do.
    There in the Daily Mail was a two page piece about the solar flares predicted for 2012 and how they may take out electrical power and satellites etc. Of course given the year 2012 they had to mention the end of the world thingy etc.

    Unlike the imaginary Planet Niburu and moon sized objects blah blah blah etc etc, solar flares are real.

    These predictions for have now been altered to take place May 2013.
    The two previous solar max outs where in 1859 and 1956 and you will be in the fortunate position to note that on neither of these occasions the world ended. We still continue to lead a (flawed) existence to this day and this will be the case after next year.

    It would only 'seem' worse and more catastrophic this time around because we have more electrical systems in place than previous times and are more reliant on technology than at any time before.

    A huge solar flare could effect certain, non 'hardened' electrical systems and take down power grids causing temporary brake down in many functions and services before they are eventually restored.

    Nothing is certain however and these predictions could turn out to be inaccurate or change again.

    Contingency plans for a breakdown in air travel and communications have been looked into by governments and military organisations. Perhaps a certain level of preparedness is a wise thing.

    I actually think it would be quite fun and certainly nothing to fear because it will be a really cool cosmic event that we would be sharing the experience of.

    A positive thing to come out of such an event is for us to finally realise how fragile we all are and that we really are all in this together.

    In context then it would be better to avert the usual fear mongering hype splattered all over youtube and liberally smeared across conspiracy boards and inform oneself with the facts thrown in with a little level of preparedness perhaps.

    Life is always more fun with the lights off!
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    Crazee

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Crazee on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:11 pm

    Just last year I was looking at a graph in a college textbook showing the sunspot/solar flare activity in the last 100+ years. It was an astronomy book and had nothing to say about 2012, but the trend was still definite. I found the graph again here, though this time it's on a site using it as a reference to say stuff is gonna happen in 2012.


    Here is a graph looking at just the last 30 years that doesn't show the trend


    The textbook went on to discuss how much our power systems were effected during the last strong solar storm, which must've been the one you cite as having happened in 1956. Supposedly, there have been precautions taken since then in order that our power grid be less vulnerable to being knocked out in this way, but we all know that sh*t can hit the fan real fast when dealing with something that puts out such massive amounts of energy UhOh

    Floyd wrote:A positive thing to come out of such an event is for us to finally realise how fragile we all are and that we really are all in this together.

    Agreed, I've read at least one sci-fi book that explored the possibility of something like a meteor destroying half a continent and thusly causing the whole planet to unite to prevent any such further disaster. It's unfortunate that, recently, the most consistent way to unite people is to give them something to be afraid of, 9/11 springs to mind. Exclamation
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:51 am

    Crazee wrote:Just last year I was looking at a graph in a college textbook showing the sunspot/solar flare activity in the last 100+ years. It was an astronomy book and had nothing to say about 2012, but the trend was still definite. I found the graph again here, though this time it's on a site using it as a reference to say stuff is gonna happen in 2012.


    The textbook went on to discuss how much our power systems were effected during the last strong solar storm, which must've been the one you cite as having happened in 1956. Supposedly, there have been precautions taken since then in order that our power grid be less vulnerable to being knocked out in this way, but we all know that sh*t can hit the fan real fast when dealing with something that puts out such massive amounts of energy UhOh

    Floyd wrote:A positive thing to come out of such an event is for us to finally realise how fragile we all are and that we really are all in this together.

    Agreed, I've read at least one sci-fi book that explored the possibility of something like a meteor destroying half a continent and thusly causing the whole planet to unite to prevent any such further disaster. It's unfortunate that, recently, the most consistent way to unite people is to give them something to be afraid of, 9/11 springs to mind. Exclamation

    Well fear and doom has always been a controlling mechanism. Hence the saying, 'put the fear of God into you' etc.

    As long as people want to read unwarranted bullshit on places like Project Doomalot, ATS (and there is plenty of it posted here on this forum and elsewhere too on a regular basis), there will be people willing to distribute it.

    Fear does sell and satisfies the apocalyptic mindset. There is a market for it but it is also a psychological weapon.

    Go to any conspiracy forum and read the crap posted about solar flares and magnetic reversal then find out the facts and you will see two very different
    stories.

    Some countries will 'harden' their grids and systems' but It will only appear worse because of our reliance on electricity for everything. It is certainly nothing to be fearful of. It may provide an opportunity for people to begin to look at alternative ways of doing things and that would be good. Bring it on, if it happens anyway as that is uncertain and even if it does it may not be that strong.

    Hey but That's counterknowledge and misinformation for you.

    I would like to think due to the ever increasing amount of rubbish being posted all over the internet people are beginning to wisen up to this tactic.

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    ceridwen

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  ceridwen on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:52 am

    Heh heh Things might just get better the morning after though, I found this and looks promising



    Heh heh


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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:55 am

    Couple of things missed there-

    piloted craft and volcanoes etc

    Pole shift

    World running out of oxygen in 2012 and global collapse prior ( remember Dr pete peterson)

    Ascension (for some at least) others pending departure.

    millions dead with flu

    Space landings

    etcetcetcetcetcetecetctecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetec

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    ceridwen

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  ceridwen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:27 am

    I didn't do that cartoon but it made me laugh Very Happy

    You are right though, we have survived so many doomsday prophesies this decade. Adding to your list some I remember

    - Elenin
    - False flag Olympics 2012 to include an atomic bomb or alien disclosure
    - Clif High webbot rubbish (have heard that there will be no more reports)

    The list is so long, I have been wondering if there is some sort of brain washing going on because politicians get less patience from their voters than whistleblowers. One thinks shouldn't it be the other way around? Less patience with the Whistleblowers? If they fail, they fail right? move on, why give them the benefit of the doubt?
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    Aquaries1111

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Aquaries1111 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:20 am

    Floyd wrote:Couple of things missed there-

    piloted craft and volcanoes etc

    Pole shift

    World running out of oxygen in 2012 and global collapse prior ( remember Dr pete peterson)

    Ascension (for some at least) others pending departure.

    millions dead with flu

    Space landings

    etcetcetcetcetcetecetctecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetecetec


    We need to remember that all these doomsday predictions are nothing more than fear porn.. and if anyone gets "disappointed" because none come to pass, then maybe, just maybe it's because there's some slight disappointment there?
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:27 am

    Some people may actually be dissapointed that these predictions dont come to pass.
    I remember with clarity how many people were waiting for Blossom Goodchilds Space ship to turn up on October a few years back on project Avalon. They actually thought it was going to happen.



    Im disappointed these predictions and lies/fear porn are made in the first place but not in the least bit suprised they dont happen.

    I wonder how many people without a job and in debt (many) are relaying on 2012/ pole shift and ascension etc to aid in the abating of their uncomfortable personal circumstances?
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    Crazee

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Crazee on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:44 am

    Floyd wrote:
    Crazee wrote:Just last year I was looking at a graph in a college textbook showing the sunspot/solar flare activity in the last 100+ years. It was an astronomy book and had nothing to say about 2012, but the trend was still definite. I found the graph again here, though this time it's on a site using it as a reference to say stuff is gonna happen in 2012.


    The textbook went on to discuss how much our power systems were effected during the last strong solar storm, which must've been the one you cite as having happened in 1956. Supposedly, there have been precautions taken since then in order that our power grid be less vulnerable to being knocked out in this way, but we all know that sh*t can hit the fan real fast when dealing with something that puts out such massive amounts of energy UhOh

    Floyd wrote:A positive thing to come out of such an event is for us to finally realise how fragile we all are and that we really are all in this together.

    Agreed, I've read at least one sci-fi book that explored the possibility of something like a meteor destroying half a continent and thusly causing the whole planet to unite to prevent any such further disaster. It's unfortunate that, recently, the most consistent way to unite people is to give them something to be afraid of, 9/11 springs to mind. Exclamation

    Well fear and doom has always been a controlling mechanism. Hence the saying, 'put the fear of God into you' etc.

    As long as people want to read unwarranted bullshit on places like Project Doomalot, ATS (and there is plenty of it posted here on this forum and elsewhere too on a regular basis), there will be people willing to distribute it.

    Fear does sell and satisfies the apocalyptic mindset. There is a market for it but it is also a psychological weapon.

    Go to any conspiracy forum and read the crap posted about solar flares and magnetic reversal then find out the facts and you will see two very different
    stories.

    Some countries will 'harden' their grids and systems' but It will only appear worse because of our reliance on electricity for everything. It is certainly nothing to be fearful of. It may provide an opportunity for people to begin to look at alternative ways of doing things and that would be good. Bring it on, if it happens anyway as that is uncertain and even if it does it may not be that strong.

    Hey but That's counterknowledge and misinformation for you.

    I would like to think due to the ever increasing amount of rubbish being posted all over the internet people are beginning to wisen up to this tactic.


    True, true, true.

    But be careful how you approach this subject. When we just sit around and talk about how negative humanity is, we are contributing to the problem by sitting around and being negative.

    People are getting smarter, slowly but surely. Even if they don't appear to be, its best to give society the benefit of the doubt. When enough people condemn the foolishness of the majority, it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Fear sells, but the more it is utilized as a method of subduction, the less effective it becomes. Our governments keep screaming "Wolf!" over and over, and each time they do so less people respond.
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:10 am

    Crazee wrote:

    True, true, true.

    But be careful how you approach this subject. When we just sit around and talk about how negative humanity is, we are contributing to the problem by sitting around and being negative.

    People are getting smarter, slowly but surely. Even if they don't appear to be, its best to give society the benefit of the doubt. When enough people condemn the foolishness of the majority, it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Fear sells, but the more it is utilized as a method of subduction, the less effective it becomes. Our governments keep screaming "Wolf!" over and over, and each time they do so less people respond.

    Well I would say not all humanity is negative. It is better to engage with the world constructively rather than 'sitting around and being negative' there are various ways in which we do that and that is for individuals to decide in what way they can do something positive. Ecology always helps hint hint!

    It is important to see if we can find out where this fear and negativity is being disseminated from and that IMO is a positive thing. It is something we should most definitely be critical of. If we can determine its source and why it is happening then we can learn something.

    I am not minded to think that the hundreds of false predictions , deceitful conspiracy theories and general charlatanism are part of a great plan to throw us off track or desensitise for some impending super mega event. The perpetrators of fear porn and false prophecy are often not connected and frequently at odds with each other to form sort of unified plan against the boy who cried wolf, or to catch us off guard somehow. If they wanted to do something they would just do it.

    But by identifying it and isolating it we defy its lifeblood and thus the egregore of fear and doom becomes constricted and dies.




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    TRANCOSO

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  TRANCOSO on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:41 pm

    Djeez Floyd, the Red's management must have been struck by solar flares, buying Oussama Assaidi from Heerenveen.

    But thank God they did, 'cos AJAX won't be stuck with another selfish, money-grabbing Moroccan.

    AJAX had a deal with Heerenveen & were prepared to pay Assaidi 1.1 million euros a year. (Liverpool pays him 3 million pounds a year, is the rumour.) But: might AJAX win the Dutch league again, he would earn another 300.000 euros. Furthermore Assaidi would get a bonus for the amount of goals and goal scoring assists he would produce. (Mind you, he played 79 games for Heerenveen & scored 20 goals... Not much - for AJAX standards).

    In other words, they offered him a contract which meant that he had to work hard for his money.

    Because experiences in the past with Berber-Moroccan players have shown that in general they have a lousy (team) metality - 'cos their selfish, & in general have a low self asteme & a big mouth to compensate that.

    Not entirely...
    "Entirely not!"
    As I said, not entirely their fault 'cos of the scizophranic Moroccan socio-religious home situation, and the atheist Dutch 'street' mentality, they also have to deal with.

    Not easy at all.

    But nobody ever said that being a top player is easy.

    Assaidi lacks the ambition to make it to the very top.

    scratch?

    He was given the choice - double passport, to either play for Holland, or for Morocco. He chose for Morocco.

    At 24 Assaidi has zero international experience, except a couple of games he played for the national team of Morocco.

    He could have played Champions League this season, with AJAX.

    scratch

    Point is: AJAX always has to win & be the best - also artistically.
    A goal in Amsterdam is only AJAX-worthy, when it's either beautifull or a winning one.

    So the preasure in Amsterdam is intense - day in, day out.

    Playing for AJAX this season would make Assaidi, or break him.

    Assaidi didn't even try...

    Crybaby Wink

    Btw, AJAX is, like Liverpool (?) a CLUB, with members and many, many legendary players in the past 50 years.

    Johan Cruyff - the best, now is THE most powefull person inside AJAX. Last year he's pushed out the 'old guard' & forced HIS people - ex- players, like Bergkamp, Overmars, Frank de Boer, etc., into all the important board & field positions within the club.

    Just like he's done before in Barcelona.

    Few people seem to remember that Barcelona was at the brink of destruction, about 20-25 years ago. At the initiative & due to the genious of chess player Johan Cruyff, a 'rebel-fraction' took over & - in one strike - got rid of the old power clique. Cruyff made Frank Rijkaard coach & within a year Barcelona won the Champions League & the Spanish League title.

    Cruyff is een Ajacied, has a club heart. He breaths AJAX.

    Suarez has a club heart, Kuyt has, Gerald...

    Oussama Assaidi has a blood-pump.

    Blowdup

    Damned sun flares!

    Whistle Beer






    Last edited by TRANCOSO on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:49 am

    TRANCOSO wrote:Djeez Floyd, the Red's management must have been struck by solar flares, buying Oussama Assaidi from Heerenveen.


    Funny you should say that Uberlord. An old pal of man is flying in from Spain for the weekend. He happens to be a red so we will be discussing Assaidi and other team matters in various Ye Olde Taverns today over copious pints of the finest mead today. Brenden Rodgers wont take any crap from him that's for sure..hes old school, Northern Irish.

    One thing we wont be discussing is solar flares and end of the world scenarios.

    A good solar flare scenario would be this. Its predicted for next May right.
    Champions league final Man Utd getting beat with one minute to go when a Solar flare hits and the stadium lights go out.

    Man Utd lose another European Cup Final.
    Big Grin 2

    One of the many reasons solar flares can be useful
    Toast
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    TRANCOSO

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  TRANCOSO on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:17 am

    TRANCOSO wrote:Djeez Floyd, the Red's management must have been struck by solar flares, buying Oussama Assaidi from Heerenveen.

    But thank God they did, 'cos AJAX won't be stuck with another selfish, money-grabbing Moroccan.

    AJAX had a deal with Heerenveen & were prepared to pay Assaidi 1.1 million euros a year. (Liverpool pays him 3 million pounds a year, is the rumour.) But: might AJAX win the Dutch league again, he would earn another 300.000 euros. Furthermore Assaidi would get a bonus for the amount of goals and goal scoring assists he would produce. (Mind you, he played 79 games for Heerenveen & scored 20 goals... Not much - for AJAX standards).

    In other words, they offered him a contract which meant that he had to work hard for his money.

    Because experiences in the past with Berber-Moroccan players have shown that in general they have a lousy (team) metality - 'cos their selfish, & in general have a low self asteme & a big mouth to compensate that.

    Not entirely...
    "Entirely not!"
    As I said, not entirely their fault 'cos of the scizophranic Moroccan socio-religious home situation, and the atheist Dutch 'street' mentality, they also have to deal with.

    Not easy at all.

    But nobody ever said that being a top player is easy.

    Assaidi lacks the ambition to make it to the very top.

    scratch?

    He was given the choice - double passport, to either play for Holland, or for Morocco. He chose for Morocco.

    At 24 Assaidi has zero international experience, except a couple of games he played for the national team of Morocco.

    He could have played Champions League this season, with AJAX.

    scratch

    Point is: AJAX always has to win & be the best - also artistically.
    A goal in Amsterdam is only AJAX-worthy, when it's either beautifull or a winning one.

    So the preasure in Amsterdam is intense - day in, day out.

    Playing for AJAX this season would make Assaidi, or break him.

    Assaidi didn't even try...

    Crybaby Wink

    Btw, AJAX is, like Liverpool (?) a CLUB, with members and many, many legendary players in the past 50 years.

    Johan Cruyff - the best, now is THE most powefull person inside AJAX. Last year he's pushed out the 'old guard' & forced HIS people - ex- players, like Bergkamp, Overmars, Frank de Boer, etc., into all the important board & field positions within the club.

    Just like he's done before in Barcelona.

    Few people seem to remember that Barcelona was at the brink of destruction, about 20-25 years ago. At the initiative & due to the genious of chess player Johan Cruyff, a 'rebel-fraction' took over & - in one strike - got rid of the old power clique. Cruyff made Frank Rijkaard coach & within a year Barcelona won the Champions League & the Spanish League title.

    Cruyff is een Ajacied, has a club heart. He breaths AJAX.

    Suarez has a club heart, Kuyt has, Gerald...

    Oussama Assaidi has a blood-pump.

    Blowdup

    Damned sun flares!

    Whistle Beer

    I edited my post, 'cos when I was writing it last night, I suddenly had house full of people.

    Girl people...

    sunny
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:27 am

    TRANCOSO wrote:
    Damned sun flares!

    Whistle Beer

    I edited my post, 'cos when I was writing it last night, I suddenly had house full of people.

    Girl people...

    sunny

    I hope there wernt any coronal mass erections ejections going on you naughty Uberlord you.
    Wink

    Hopefully if the world doesnt end etc Liverpool will get our New Stadium soon. Pool and Ajax are similar clubs no doubt.
    Drink Wine
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    ceridwen

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  ceridwen on Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:08 am

    The good news is that there may be no moon at all tonight cos we are leading to New Moon Very Happy

    Wait a minute, did I say new moon? Is there any chance the dimbats thought that "new moon" meant an additional moon? Shocked Rolling Eyes Lmao







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    TRANCOSO

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  TRANCOSO on Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:51 pm

    Floyd wrote:

    I hope there wernt any coronal mass erections ejections going on you naughty Uberlord you.
    Wink

    Exactly what I thought Floyd, but it was idle hope.

    It's bloody hot in Holland & it seems to have a strange - horny - effect on women.

    Thank God I know 'm for years so it didn't came as a surprise when they took off their clothes and started to fiddle around with me - & each other.

    Floyd, these are the moments that I hate my life!

    Lmfao Beer
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:07 am

    So, do we really need to worry about a huge solar storm burning out the electrical systems of half the world in 2013? Masochists that we are here at the Telegraph, we love to shoot down our own stories, and I was cracking my knuckles for this one. It's got all the ingredients – white-coated authority, grave warnings of impending doom, exciting sciencey nuclear nemesis in space. NASA! Solar flares! Planes falling out of the sky! Etc.

    But I read the piece, and spoke to the reporter, and – while always remembering that I am no more an astrophysicist than I am a black belt in tae kwon do – it sounded pretty solid. Dr Richard Fisher, the director of Nasa's Heliophysics division, is very clear in the quotes, and our reporter, Andrew Hough, was very careful to check his facts with Dr Fisher before publishing. It sounds like a lot of serious people think that this is a real danger.

    Apparently the concern is in 2013, the sun will reach a stage of its cycle when these large events are more likely. This might strike you as a bit strange, as you've probably heard (as have I) that the sun has been especially active for the last half-century or so and is expected to die down in the next couple of years – I spoke to Marcus Chown, the physicist and author of We Need to Talk about Kelvin, who said "Solar activity has been abnormally high for the past 50 years, but the extremely feeble start to the latest 11-year cycle suggests this activity is coming to an end and things are going to be quiet on the Sun for quite a few years." Dr Ruth Bamford, a plasma physicist at the Rutherford-Appleton Laboratory, agrees: "The sun has been particularly quiet for the last few years in a protracted solar minimum. It has just woken up, as it were, and started its usual 11-year cycle a bit later than most."

    So what's going on? Well, something similar has happened before. In 1859 a huge solar storm burned out telegraph wires across Europe and the United States. Dr Stuart Clark has written a book, The Sun Kings, about when that happened. He says that the "Carrington flare", as it was known, "smothered two-thirds of the Earth’s skies in a blood-red aurora a night later, and crippled all of global navigation and global communication, such as it was at that time. Compasses span uselessly and the telegraph network went down as phantom electricity surged through the wire."

    The sun had indeed been running at a record high for the latter half of the 20th century, and has now died down to its lowest level for a century. But Dr Clark warns that "average levels of solar activity has fallen does not mean that the Sun is immune from large flares or even giant ones. Low average levels of activity may even promote the giant flares.

    "Perhaps like earthquakes, when there are constant flares/tremors the energy is dissipated evenly over long periods of time. But in periods of quiet, that energy can build up and then suddenly be released in a giant event. This remains speculation, however."

    2013 is when the next peak in the sun's cycle of activity is expected, and while we cannot predict individual flares, Dr Clark says that the largest flares are often shortly after the peak.

    Of course, if a proper "Carrington event" happens again, it has the potential to be far more problematic now than in 1859 when electric communication was barely in its infancy. Dr Clark says "There is absolutely no reason to believe that we are heading for solar armageddon in 2013, but sooner or later we should expect there to be another Carrington event and that is what these scientists [at NASA] are trying to prevent. Legislation in the US has just passed Congress to help harden the grid against solar flares."

    So – it's a real thing, and we should be concerned. But preventive measures can be taken – satellites can be sent offline during big flares, power grids and communication networks can be shielded against electromagnetic radiation and so on. As Dr Bamford says: "The extreme events like the 1859 Carrington Event are 1-in-100-year probabilities, about the same probability as a storm of the level of Katrina hitting New Orleans – and New Orleans did not build their defences to withstand the extreme-but-unlikely magnitude. 100 years isn’t that long.

    "But the end of the world it is not.
    Maybe as disruptive as an ash cloud, but not as protracted I’m sure." She gives examples of precautions, like a GPS backup system called eLoran, or active mini-magnetosphere shielding for astronauts and satellites that her team have designed.

    Of course, if those precautions are taken, and actually work, and no damage is done, then everyone will cry that it was all a big fuss over nothing, like they always do. So the scientists can't win, really. But that's just how it is.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100008500/nasas-2013-solar-flare-warning-how-much-do-we-need-to-worry/
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    ceridwen

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  ceridwen on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:22 pm

    Well I never! It is all the BBC's fault. Steven Fry started the rummours of a 2nd moon some years ago, watch



    Regretfully it appears there is no correction to his statement and new agers picked up on that

    3753 Cruithne (play /ˈkrɪnjə/, from Old Irish [ˈkrɪθnɛ]; Modern [ˈkrɪhnʲə] or [ˈkrɪnʲə]) is an asteroid in orbit around the Sun in 1:1 orbital resonance with the Earth. It is a periodic inclusion planetoid[What does this mean?] orbiting the Sun in a horseshoe orbit relative to Earth.[2] It has been incorrectly called "Earth's second moon", but it is a quasi-satellite,[2] not a moon. Cruithne does not orbit Earth, and at times it is on the other side of the Sun.[3] Its orbit takes it inwards towards the orbit of Mercury, and outside the orbit of Mars.[3] Cruithne orbits the Sun in about 1 year, but it takes 770 years for the series to complete a horseshoe-shaped movement, with the Earth in the gap of the horseshoe. Shocked

    Wait, don't get too excited, it is not due until November so no show in September
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    ceridwen

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  ceridwen on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:19 am

    I just realized that I posted the wrong link, here is the actual link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3753_Cruithne






    Cruithne is approximately 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) in diameter, and its closest approach to Earth is approximately thirty times the separation between Earth and the Moon (12 Gm or twelve million kilometres). From 1994 through 2015, Cruithne makes its annual closest approach to Earth every November.[4] Although Cruithne's orbit is not thought to be stable over the long term, calculations by Wiegert and Innanen showed that it has probably been synchronized with Earth's orbit for a long time. There is no danger of a collision with Earth for millions of years, if ever. Its orbital path and Earth's do not cross, and its orbital plane is currently tilted to that of the Earth by 19.8°. Cruithne, having a maximum near-Earth magnitude of +15.8, is fainter than Pluto and would require at least a 12.5-inch (320 mm) reflecting telescope to be seen.[5][6]

    So there you have it, the famous planet x, nibiru, second moon all in one discovered in 1987 when rumours of a certain "Hercobulos" (aka Nibiru) became part New Age scy fi
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:44 am


    Solar activity does not cause volcanoes or earthquakes. This chart clearly shows there is no correlation.

    A 'Carrington Event may take out power grids and communications temporarily (grow yer own and prepare a little. It would be fun) but apart from that there is nothing to fear about CME's and Solar storms.
    They do not and have not wiped out civilisations.
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    lawlessline

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  lawlessline on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:35 pm

    Floyd wrote:

    Solar activity does not cause volcanoes or earthquakes. This chart clearly shows there is no correlation.

    A 'Carrington Event may take out power grids and communications temporarily (grow yer own and prepare a little. It would be fun) but apart from that there is nothing to fear about CME's and Solar storms.
    They do not and have not wiped out civilisations.

    That is far too simplistic Floyd, you have a greater intelligence to understand that Earth quakes and volcanoes are not just tied to solar spots but the planet rings like a bell so you should be looking at the spikes to get a small view of how this planet works. Once you start adding in like human activities on land sea and air then we could connect the dots. It would be like saying that there is no connections between drinking and driving that account for all the mortality rates on this planet.

    Not like you to be that simplistic.

    Lawless
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:56 am

    Hey ho Tom

    The short answer is check out the graph above.

    The longer answer is this. If one stretched out the variables over a thousand years one may able to elicit some timing coincidences between solar activity
    and earthquakes but that does not mean the former causes the latter.

    I have a cousin who is a geologist and became a drilling engineer and I asked him about this a few years back and he basically laughed.

    For me there is no connection and volcanic and earthquake activity are caused by terrestrial and internal events and not caused by solar or celestial bodies.

    I admire scientists (especially my geologist cousin as he introduced me to Pink Floyd as a youngster), they are diligent, expert, thorough and dedicated. Pseudo scientists on the other hand are not any of these things and I dont respect them and see them as a menace to the alternative community. People like Geryl and Masters.

    Lets put this into perspective about pseudos claiming CME's and the coming solar storm will and have wipe out civilisation. The next big solar storm was forecast for 2012 and been put back to may 2013 and there is still much uncertainty about that. There are some forecasts that it may be as strong as the Carrington Event in sept 1859.

    What the fear mongers and pseudos are saying is that these storms mean the end and will cause of kinds of geophysical activity. Really?

    If we go back to September 1859 to see what earthquakes occurred During the Carrington Solar Storm of which we some are falsely putting the fear of god into us about, there were two significant earthquakes, one in Turkey and one in Azerbaijan. There were deaths but no end of civilisation and both societies still flourish today. Neither of them happened at the time of the Solar event but before. The event.

    Unqualified and profiteering fear mongers like Patrick Geryl and Marshall Masters would have you believe that this forthcoming solar event will be catastrophic. Wrong.

    Should we be concerned then that the forecast Carrington Event sized solar storm will cause catastrophic world ending earthquakes. I dont think so some how and there is no reason anyone should be fearing it as there is no link between the two.

    Such an event may pot out power grids,sat navs and communication but that would be a moment of challenge and opportunity rather than a civilisation ending nightmare. Just imagine no electricity for even a week. People may start to have to work together more.

    So for me the alleged links between CME's and earthquakes and civilisation ending events being peddled by the pseudos is not something I worry about.

    What others believe is entirely up to them.

    Call me a spoil sport if you like. But for me it is simple.

    That's why I hang out with the village idiot and the local toothless simpleton lol.
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    Brook

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Brook on Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:43 am

    The answer is in the magnetic liquid ....the earths CORE

    Investigate the science behind that and see how the sun and weakening magnetic field during this transition can in FACT effect the earth.

    Don't believe me....check out what the scientists say.


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    mudra

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  mudra on Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:41 am

    Hello Brook .
    Good to see you Cheerful

    Love from me
    mudra
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    Floyd

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    Re: Solar Flares

    Post  Floyd on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:44 pm

    Hi Tom

    The angle I was coming at with this is that the fear mongering surrounding the effect that solar flares and space weather in general could be the cause of civilisation destroying events, or even geophysical activity in general, are unwarranted and baseless. This, despite the fact that pseudo scientists such as Geryl and other fear mongers try to peddle it as such.

    Anyone can post a youtube video feigning knowledge of such subjects but it does not a case make, clearly.

    Having in interest in geology as you have to I took it upon myself to write to experts in the field of earthquakes and space weather rather than listen to my own POV or youtube videos.

    The experts who responded kindly took their time to explain the FACTS as they are and I appreciate that greatly.

    I will post with this reply from Tim Howard, a space scientist who has written a book on CME's
    http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~howard/index.html

    The thrust of my question was 'Can Space Weather cause civilisation destroying geological events and geological activity in general.'

    The answer you will find is no and no.

    The Carrington Event scenario was another subject I asked about and his answer was what I thought.


    "Thank you for your question and for your interest in this subject.

    Regarding your question, I am inclined to agree with your assessment that severe space weather effects cannot cause severely damaging geological activity, such as earthquakes or tsunamis. The term “geophysical” can include the Earth’s atmosphere, which is affected by space weather.



    My understanding is that civilization-destroying geological phenomena, such as earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, are caused by activity below the Earth’s surface: via plate-tectonics and so forth. Space weather at Earth is exclusively an atmospheric phenomenon: i.e. above the Earth’s surface. I have seen no evidence that suggests that space weather phenomena are capable of penetrating the Earth’s surface to such an extent as to cause severe earthquakes or volcanic eruptions. Not even on the planet Mercury, which is severely affected by space weather does this appear to be the case.



    The Carrington event was caused by the arrival of an extremely fast coronal mass ejection at the Earth. It disrupted telegraph wires but in no way destroyed civilization. While we are much more dependent on micro- and nano-technology than we were in the 1850s, it is unlikely that such an event occurring even today will end civilization. It may cause many billions of dollars of damage and severely disrupt out modern technological systems, and maybe even damage some power stations. While lives may be lost and fortunes ruined, I doubt it would be so catastrophic to cause the destruction of a civilization.



    Planetary alignments come and go as they have done since the dawn of history. While I cannot say for certain that such an alignment has absolutely no effect whatsoever, the gravitational effects of any such alignment would be insufficient to create anything on the scale that you are suggesting.



    Regarding the significance of the years 2012-2013, it is true that next year we will likely reach the maximum in the current cycle of solar activity (we call it Cycle 24). During this time the Sun will experience a larger rate of solar flares, coronal mass ejections and so-forth. However, this particular solar cycle has proven to be a relatively inactive one. If you go to http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SolarCycle/ you will see that the sunspot number (what we currently use to gauge solar activity) is expected to reach only around 70% of the number at the last solar maximum. We measure geomagnetic storms by the so-called Dst index which is a negative number: a small magnetic storm occurs when Dst reaches around -100 nT, a medium storm is when it is around -150 nT and a large storm is less than around -200 nT. Dst has reached -100 only six times since 2006. It has reached -150 nT only once in that time. All evidence points to the very likely possibility that the current solar cycle will not produce any significant geomagnetic activity at the Earth. The chances of a Carrington-like event occurring is therefore extremely low.



    In summary, based on all that we know of the Sun, I draw the following conclusions:


    1. That space weather cannot produce significant geological activity;

    2. That the current solar cycle is not likely to produce a Carrington event;

    3. That even if a Carrington event were to occur, it is not likely to destroy civilization.




    I should add that, if scientific evidence exists to challenge either of these claims then I, as a scientist, would be happy to review it".


    I shall post other responses as and when.


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