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    greybeard

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    Ego

    Post  greybeard on Wed May 19, 2010 2:27 am

    The ego is not the enemy and was necessary to our survival.
    It was born out of the need to see this and that as seperate fom our
    true self. ie what is edible what is not, what leads to pleasure what
    leads to pain. What is dangerous to us.
    Unforunately the useful servant became a bad master.

    In short it is a seperation device.
    It grows stronger by percieving an enemy.
    It would die for its point of view.
    All wars come out of a difference of opinion.
    I am right therfore you must be wrong is typical of the egoic thought.


    In symplicity the ego is just self buying into and believing in the me story in the head.

    Ego is all belief systems all programing all positionality.

    The moment a position is held its an identification with an illusion.

    its ok to have a point of view but its a mistake to believe that it is more valid than other possible points of view.

    What is left when the ego is transcended?
    Enlightenment is what is left.
    An egoless state.

    Thank you also Anchor

    Looking forward to other points of view.

    Chris






























    Last edited by greybeard on Wed May 19, 2010 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : It wont let me edit. Pasted from Avalon)
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Wed May 19, 2010 3:02 am

    I pasted the first post of this thread in from original Avalon.
    I couldn't edit it for some unknown reason hence Anchors name is in it inappropriately.
    The post was partly in answer to a previous one.
    Nice to be back amongst friends
    Chris
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    Nebula

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    Re: Ego

    Post  Nebula on Wed May 19, 2010 12:26 pm

    Great to have you here Greybeard. How goes it? Thanks for posting this thread about the 'Ego'. Its the ever illusive part of our mind that we all struggle with, hence the reallness of this illusion. We all need to learn to master the ego and overcome it. I hope to add to this thread soon. cheers


    Last edited by Nebula on Wed May 19, 2010 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

    bigmo

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    Re: Ego

    Post  bigmo on Wed May 19, 2010 1:35 pm

    greybeard wrote:
    The ego is not the enemy and was necessary to our survival.
    It was born out of the need to see this and that as seperate fom our
    true self. ie what is edible what is not, what leads to pleasure what
    leads to pain. What is dangerous to us.
    Unforunately the useful servant became a bad master.

    In short it is a seperation device.
    It grows stronger by percieving an enemy.
    It would die for its point of view.
    All wars come out of a difference of opinion.
    I am right therfore you must be wrong is typical of the egoic thought.


    In symplicity the ego is just self buying into and believing in the me story in the head.

    Ego is all belief systems all programing all positionality.

    The moment a position is held its an identification with an illusion.

    its ok to have a point of view but its a mistake to believe that it is more valid than other possible points of view.

    What is left when the ego is transcended?
    Enlightenment is what is left.
    An egoless state.

    Thank you also Anchor

    Looking forward to other points of view.

    Chris

    Chris,

    It's good to see your postings here at The Mist. You bring up a great point but I may wish to through a fly in the ointment, so to speak and would like your response.

    In theory I agree with everything you stated above but as I look out into the world everything isn't quite so clear cut. If I pursued this posture as you would suggest (and in theory I agree) then how would I handle the following situations assuming I had an opportunity to 'make a decision' as to a course of action to take:

    An unknown person has entered my house at night and has climbed the steps to the second floor where my myself, my wife and my children are sleeping. Should I act as if asleep and let him continue in the hopes that he leaves peacefully or should I aggressively confront him in what could turn into deadly situation?

    A known criminal in the neighborhood (age 34) has threatened my sixteen year old daughter by making highly suggestive comments to her about her physique and touching her as she walks past the corner he 'hangs' at. My intuition it to confront the man and in no uncertain terms threaten him with physical harm to back off my daughter. Others say to complain to the police which would likely not be effective. What would you do?

    A surprise attack is launched against the USA in Dec. of 1941 at Pearl Harbor. Those that attacked are interested in world domination as is evidenced by their actions throughout Europe and in the the South Pacific. Wasn't it wise to defend ourselves against this aggressor? What would you do?

    I present these situations just to make a point that it is not always so 'clear' when it is 'right' to act from the ego. I think your point is more that we should not move against our brother when we percieve that a wrong has been committed. We should use restraint until it is obvious and clear (as in the situations above) that inaction could be more harmful than action.

    Good to see you again Chris.

    Bigmo




































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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Wed May 19, 2010 3:26 pm

    <blockquote class="postcontent restore ">
    Hi friends
    To put it into context.
    There are two kinds of ego.
    One as defined by the Medical/ Psychiatric profession.
    is Healthy self esteem.
    It is good to take pride in the way we do things.
    When one is comfortable with oneself and what one does then fear
    decrease and it is easy to be in this world with all its trials and
    tribulations at that point there is an over lap into the second
    definition of ego, the spiritual one.

    The ego in spiritual terms could be defined as "Edge God Out"
    Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

    There were some very good contributions to this thread on Avalon and I hope that the same will apply here.
    Fresh insights are very welcome.
    Chris
    Namaste.
    </blockquote>
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Wed May 19, 2010 3:30 pm

    Nebula wrote:Great to have you here Greybeard. How goes it? Thanks for posting this thread about the 'Ego'. Its the ever illusive part of our mind that we all struggle with, hence the reallness of this illusion. We all need to learn to master the ego and overcome it. I hope to add to this thread soon. cheers

    Thanks for your welcome Nebula I look forward to your contributions, through sharing I learn.

    Namaste
    Chris
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    mudra

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    Re: Ego

    Post  mudra on Wed May 19, 2010 3:50 pm

    I present these situations just to make a point that it is not always so 'clear' when it is 'right' to act from the ego. I think your point is more that we should not move against our brother when we percieve that a wrong has been committed. We should use restraint until it is obvious and clear (as in the situations above) that inaction could be more harmful than action.

    Good to see you again Chris.

    Bigmo

    The real Art of Peace is not to sacrifice a single one of your warriors to defeat an enemy. Vanquish your foes by always keeping yourself in a safe and unassailable position; then no one will suffer any losses. The Way of a Warrior, the Art of Politics, is to stop trouble before it starts. It consists in defeating your adversaries spiritually by making them realize the folly of their actions. The Way of a Warrior is to establish harmony.

    From the Art of Peace by Morihei Ueshiba


    When soul manifests ego subsides.



    Good to see you here Chris cheers

    Love Always
    mudra
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Wed May 19, 2010 4:14 pm

    Bigmo Wrote
    Chris,

    It's good to see your postings here at The Mist. You
    bring up a great point but I may wish to through a fly in the ointment,
    so to speak and would like your response.

    In theory I agree
    with everything you stated above but as I look out into the world
    everything isn't quite so clear cut. If I pursued this posture as you
    would suggest (and in theory I agree) then how would I handle the
    following situations assuming I had an opportunity to 'make a decision'
    as to a course of action to take:

    An unknown person has entered
    my house at night and has climbed the steps to the second floor where
    my myself, my wife and my children are sleeping. Should I act as if
    asleep and let him continue in the hopes that he leaves peacefully or
    should I aggressively confront him in what could turn into deadly
    situation?

    A known criminal in the neighborhood (age 34) has
    threatened my sixteen year old daughter by making highly suggestive
    comments to her about her physique and touching her as she walks past
    the corner he 'hangs' at. My intuition it to confront the man and in no
    uncertain terms threaten him with physical harm to back off my
    daughter. Others say to complain to the police which would likely not
    be effective. What would you do?

    A surprise attack is launched
    against the USA in Dec. of 1941 at Pearl Harbor. Those that attacked
    are interested in world domination as is evidenced by their actions
    throughout Europe and in the the South Pacific. Wasn't it wise to
    defend ourselves against this aggressor? What would you do?

    I
    present these situations just to make a point that it is not always so
    'clear' when it is 'right' to act from the ego. I think your point is
    more that we should not move against our brother when we perceive
    that a wrong has been committed. We should use restraint until it is
    obvious and clear (as in the situations above) that inaction could be
    more harmful than action.

    Good to see you again Chris.

    Bigmo

    Thanks for your questions which are very valid.
    I will give answers from two perspectives.
    They overlap.
    Dont know what I will write but will watch to see what appears on paper.

    First from the perspective of enlightenment.
    Gandhi accomplished through nonviolence and his high spiritual energy freedom from colonial rule, he was enlightened.
    Nelson Mandela came out of prison and could have been full of bitterness towards whites yet accomplished so much. A highly spiritual person.
    My main teacher Dr Hawkins was asked, on a video, what would he do if he was threatened by a terrorist with a gun. He covered his ears and said I cant stand loud noises. Death means nothing to him.

    The crossover point between the spiritual belief and what confronts you in daily life.
    First the power of prayer is phenomenal, forgive, and pray for guidance, right action will follow.

    Right action varies from situation to situation and person to person.
    The highly evolved spiritual person is not loving to the point of being naive.
    Action is not condoned but the person is still loved.

    Going first to the war from the UK perspective, Winston Churchill warned aganst trusting Hitler. He was called a war monger by Chamberlain who thought he had struck peace deal with Hitler. How wrong he was.
    Now if Churchill had been listened to millions of lives would have been saved.
    Churchill was a great leader of a spiritual energy that lifted and motivated people.

    Japan was well warned but USA had to drop not one but two nuclear bombs to end the war.
    The dropping of the bombs probably saved many lives.

    My heart goes out to you in the personal situation you have related.
    Im reluctant to give advice but statistics show that resistance to an intruder is non productive.
    Again the spiritual answer brings calmness no knee jerk reaction.
    When you are grounded in spiritual, right action just occurs.

    Similar with the situation of your daughter.
    Where practical and if possible change her routine so that contact with the man is minimized.
    If she has to go past him she should always be in company
    Men like that are attention seeking and have a massive ego, they look for reaction. If there is non they get bored. Not easy though.

    My partner Rosaline is Black African and has a little fear of discrimination which is diminishing.
    Several month ago, late at night, some one threw an egg against the window. The curtains were drawn.
    I felt no fear and took no action.
    Fear attracts that which you are afraid of.
    I am aware that some people disapprove of a white man living with black woman but I dont go there in my mind.
    I have no idea why an egg hit the window, no point in guessing.
    It hasn't happened again.
    So Bigmo pray for a good outcome and focus on that, dont enter into negative out comes but if opportunity arises to take calm right action you will know.

    With Love for you and yours
    Chris

    Ps Thanks for your input Mudra.
    Love c
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    hippihillbobbi

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    Re: Ego

    Post  hippihillbobbi on Wed May 19, 2010 10:57 pm

    Chris --

    SO Nice to have you here sharing your gentle wisdom with us again!!! You've definitely been missed!

    love,
    bobbi/jbt
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Thu May 20, 2010 5:13 am

    hippihillbobbi wrote:Chris --

    SO Nice to have you here sharing your gentle wisdom with us again!!! You've definitely been missed!

    love,
    bobbi/jbt

    Thanks.
    One way or another we all contribute in our own way.
    Your kind thoughts are much appreciated.
    Love Chris
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    Mercuriel
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    Re: Ego

    Post  Mercuriel on Thu May 20, 2010 8:11 am

    I absolutely Agree. The Ego has been the Devil Inside. It has had to be but no longer. Time to move from the Sandbox...

    I am so glad to see You...

    Welcome back Brother...

    Flowers


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    Namaste...

    Peace, Light, Love, Harmony and Unity...
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Thu May 20, 2010 11:57 am

    Mercuriel wrote:I absolutely Agree. The Ego has been the Devil Inside. It has had to be but no longer. Time to move from the Sandbox...

    I am so glad to see You...

    Welcome back Brother...

    Thanks Mercuriel.
    Good to be here.
    Love Chris

    Flowers
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    Floyd

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    Re: Ego

    Post  Floyd on Thu May 20, 2010 1:34 pm

    At last...a thread about lego


    oops..sorry
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Thu May 20, 2010 1:41 pm

    Floyd wrote:At last...a thread about lego


    oops..sorry

    ah but which way is up?

    Thanks Humor is everything.
    Chris
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    mudra

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    Re: Ego

    Post  mudra on Thu May 20, 2010 2:06 pm

    LOL... Floyd and where is the true center ?

    Ego - The False Center
    From Beyond the Frontier of the Mind by Osho


    The first thing to be understood is what ego is. A child is born. A
    child
    is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self. And
    when
    a child is born the first thing he becomes aware of is not himself; the
    first thing he becomes aware of is the other. It is natural, because the
    eyes open outwards, the hands touch others, the ears listen to others,
    the
    tongue tastes food and the nose smells the outside. All these senses
    open
    outwards.

    That is what birth means. Birth means coming into this world, the
    world
    of the outside. So when a child is born, he is born into this world. He
    opens his eyes, sees others. 'Other' means the thou. He becomes aware of
    the mother first. Then, by and by, he becomes aware of his own body.
    That
    too is the other, that too belongs to the world. He is hungry and he
    feels
    the body; his need is satisfied, he forgets the body.

    This is how a child grows. First he becomes aware of you, thou, other,
    and then by and by, in contrast to you, thou, he becomes aware of
    himself.

    This awareness is a reflected awareness. He is not aware of who he is.
    He
    is simply aware of the mother and what she thinks about him. If she
    smiles,
    if she appreciates the child, if she says, "You are beautiful," if she
    hugs
    and kisses him, the child feels good about himself. Now an ego is born.

    Through appreciation, love, care, he feels he is good, he feels he is
    valuable, he feels he has some significance.

    A center is born.

    But this center is a reflected center. It is not his real being. He
    does
    not know who he is; he simply knows what others think about him. And
    this
    is the ego: the reflection, what others think. If nobody thinks that he
    is
    of any use, nobody appreciates him, nobody smiles, then too an ego is
    born:
    an ill ego; sad, rejected, like a wound; feeling inferior, worthless.
    This
    too is the ego. This too is a reflection.

    First the mother - and mother means the world in the beginning. Then
    others will join the mother, and the world goes on growing. And the more
    the world grows, the more complex the ego becomes, because many others'
    opinions are reflected.

    The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with
    others.
    If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But
    that
    is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn't mean
    that
    he will come to know the real self, no.

    The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must.
    One
    has to pass through it. It is a discipline. The real can be known only
    through the illusion. You cannot know the truth directly. First you have
    to
    know that which is not true. First you have to encounter the untrue.
    Through that encounter you become capable of knowing the truth. If you
    know
    the false as the false, truth will dawn upon you.

    Ego is a need; it is a social need, it is a social by-product. The
    society
    means all that is around you - not you, but all that is around you. All,
    minus you, is the society. And everybody reflects. You will go to school
    and
    the teacher will reflect who you are. You will be in friendship with
    other
    children and they will reflect who you are. By and by, everybody is
    adding
    to your ego, and everybody is trying to modify it in such a way that you
    don't become a problem to the society.

    They are not concerned with you.

    They are concerned with the society.

    Society is concerned with itself, and that's how it should be.

    They are not concerned that you should become a self-knower. They are
    concerned that you should become an efficient part in the mechanism of
    the
    society. You should fit into the pattern. So they are trying to give you
    an
    ego that fits with the society. They teach you morality. Morality means
    giving you an ego which will fit with the society. If you are immoral,
    you
    will always be a misfit somewhere or other. That's why we put criminals
    in
    the prisons - not that they have done something wrong, not that by
    putting
    them in the prisons we are going to improve them, no. They simply don't
    fit. They are troublemakers. They have certain types of egos of which
    the
    society doesn't approve. If the society approves, everything is good.

    One man kills somebody - he is a murderer.

    And the same man in wartime kills thousands - he becomes a great hero.
    The society is not bothered by a murder, but the murder should be
    commited
    for the society - then it is okay. The society doesn't bother about
    morality.

    Morality means only that you should fit with the society.

    If the society is at war, then the morality changes.

    If the society is at peace, then there is a different morality.

    Morality is a social politics. It is diplomacy. And each child has to
    be
    brought up in such a way that he fits into the society, that's all.
    Because
    society is interested in efficient members. Society is not interested
    that
    you should attain to self-knowledge.

    The society creates an ego because the ego can be controlled and
    manipulated. The self can never be controlled or manipulated. Nobody has
    ever heard of the society controlling a self - not possible.

    And the child needs a center; the child is completely unaware of his
    own
    center. The society gives him a center and the child is by and by
    convinced
    that this is his center, the ego that society gives.

    A child comes back to his home - if he has come first in his class,
    the
    whole family is happy. You hug and kiss him, and you take the child on
    your
    shoulders and dance and you say, "What a beautiful child! You are a
    pride
    to us." You are giving him an ego, a subtle ego. And if the child comes
    home dejected, unsuccessful, a failure - he couldn't pass, or he has
    just
    been on the back bench - then nobody appreciates him and the child feels
    rejected. He will try harder next time, because the center feels shaken.

    Ego is always shaken, always in search of food, that somebody should
    appreciate it. That's why you continuously ask for attention.

    You get the idea of who you are from others.

    It is not a direct experience.

    It is from others that you get the idea of who you are. They shape
    your
    center. This center is false, because you carry your real center. That
    is
    nobody's business. Nobody shapes it.

    You come with it.

    You are born with it.

    So you have two centers. One center you come with, which is given by
    existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is
    created
    by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing - and it is a very great
    trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to
    behave
    in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You
    have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you
    have
    to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the
    society
    appreciate you, and if it doesn't, you ego will be shaken. And when the
    ego
    is shaken, you don't know where you are, who you are.

    The others have given you the idea.

    That idea is the ego.

    Try to understand it as deeply as possible, because this has to be
    thrown.
    And unless you throw it you will never be able to attain to the self.
    Because you are addicted to the center, you cannot move, and you cannot
    look at the self.

    And remember, there is going to be an interim period, an interval,
    when
    the ego will be shattered, when you will not know who you are, when you
    will not know where you are going, when all boundaries will melt.

    You will simply be confused, a chaos.

    Because of this chaos, you are afraid to lose the ego. But it has to
    be
    so. One has to pass through the chaos before one attains to the real
    center.

    And if you are daring, the period will be small.

    If you are afraid, and you again fall back to the ego, and you again
    start arranging it, then it can be very, very long; many lives can be
    wasted.

    There is a little more to read for the brave ones
    http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

    Love Always
    mudra
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    Re: Ego

    Post  Guest on Thu May 20, 2010 4:07 pm

    Hi Chris. It is wonderful to see you here. And thanks for bringing over your thread.
    Good to keep an eye on that old companion, Ego.

    Bushycat
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Thu May 20, 2010 4:38 pm

    bushycat wrote:Hi Chris. It is wonderful to see you here. And thanks for bringing over your thread.
    Good to keep an eye on that old companion, Ego.

    Bushycat

    Thanks Bushycat.
    Happy to be back.
    I watch Christopher, most of the time he is good company. Have to keep him on a leash though, otherwise God alone knows what he might get up to.

    Chris
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Fri May 21, 2010 9:14 pm

    My ego is still work in progress I have added a link to some songs I sang as part of the signature.
    Love Chris
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    mudra

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    Re: Ego

    Post  mudra on Sat May 22, 2010 4:08 am

    I love that part of your ego Chris


    mudra
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    greybeard

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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Sat May 22, 2010 2:05 pm

    mudra wrote:I love that part of your ego Chris


    mudra

    You are an In-Spirit-at-one (inspiration) for many mudra this self included.
    Thanks for your encouragement.
    Love Chris
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    Carol
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    Re: Ego

    Post  Carol on Sat May 22, 2010 2:46 pm

    Ahh, Chris. It is so nice to have you here. cheers


    _________________
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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Sat May 22, 2010 5:16 pm

    Carol wrote:Ahh, Chris. It is so nice to have you here. cheers
    Thanks Carol.
    Hope all well with you.
    Love Chris
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    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Sun May 23, 2010 12:01 pm

    Ramana said that "The world you are trying to save doesn't exist"
    Its down to perception.

    Karma

    The whole universe is karma
    There are no accidents, everything happens because the totality brought
    it about.
    The world is the perfect opportunity to undo negative karma.
    Every moment we are given opportunity to choose that which is wholesome.
    When we do so, our vibration rises and if it does so enough we will have
    escaped the wheel of seeming birth and death. This will be out last
    sojourn here and we move on to higher realms.
    A paradox is that, as long as we think there is a personal me taking
    action we will return here again and again.
    There is no personal me, only consciousness expressing and experiencing
    itself through this persona and form.
    There is only One of us, hard though that might be to believe.
    The moment we get hold of the the fact that we are not the doer then
    duality ceases - ego is transcended and earthly adventures no longer
    required.
    Jesus said it loud and clear --- "Of myself I do nothing"

    One Englishman became enlightened when he was out walking.
    All of a sudden he was aware that his feet were walking all by them
    selves.
    He took the thought further and had a very deep realization that every
    body function was just happening.

    Ramesh Balsakar said.
    Last thing at night, have a look through your day and see that all
    occurrences were not in isolation and therefore out with your control.
    The only freedom we really have is to say yes or no to what has already
    happened.
    We can change ourselves and our attitude then our perception changes and
    the world appears to change.

    The state of enlightenment
    is extremely powerful, it
    dramatically raises changes the vibration of all for the higher good.
    I think thats what the bible meant when it said that you must die to
    live. That dying for others is the highest action.
    The transcending of, leading to the death of one ego uplifts the whole
    Universe.
    Only the ego dies Awareness remains.

    With love
    Chris
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    mudra

    Posts : 18564
    Join date : 2010-04-09
    Age : 63
    Location : belgium

    Re: Ego

    Post  mudra on Sun May 23, 2010 4:12 pm

    "Future is the promise of completion which you remember and seek again. In that pursuit, infinite potential will supply your needs, yearnings, lessons, and alignments, until at last you realize that true completion has always been, and is reattained through liberation of desire as well as attachment."

    From Love without end by Glenda Green

    Indeed Chris I believe the entire journey is the coming back to the center through our conscious letting go of the periphery


    Love from me
    mudra
    avatar
    greybeard

    Posts : 282
    Join date : 2010-04-13
    Age : 72
    Location : Inverness Scotland

    Re: Ego

    Post  greybeard on Sun May 23, 2010 5:20 pm

    mudra wrote:"Future is the promise of completion which you remember and seek again. In that pursuit, infinite potential will supply your needs, yearnings, lessons, and alignments, until at last you realize that true completion has always been, and is reattained through liberation of desire as well as attachment."

    From Love without end by Glenda Green

    Indeed Chris I believe the entire journey is the coming back to the center through our conscious letting go of the periphery


    Love from me
    mudra

    Assuming we are created in the image of God,
    When all that is not God is removed from self what are we left with?
    Why God of course.
    Home at last.
    The journey from self to Self complete.
    Love to you.
    Chris
    Hope you enjoyed the ego singing Lol

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    Re: Ego

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